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Evening2
unregistered user
01-06-05, 02:41 PM (EST)
 
"Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
 
   I don't know much about the subject matter but feel its discussion in relation to JonBenet's murder might prove important in solving the case.

It's quite possible that the murder of JonBenet was simply a business venture for the killer/s. I am interested on any info and thoughts posters here are willing to offer.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 jamesonadmin 01-06-05 1
     RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-06-05 2
         RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Rainsong 01-06-05 3
             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-06-05 4
     RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-07-05 10
  Central Casting DonBradley 01-06-05 5
     RE: Central Casting Evening2 01-06-05 6
         RE: This is eerie... Ashley 01-06-05 7
             RE: This is eerie... Ashley 01-06-05 8
                 RE: This is eerie... Evening2 01-07-05 9
                     RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube" Evening2 01-07-05 11
                         RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube" jamesonadmin 01-07-05 12
                             RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube" Evening2 01-07-05 13
                                 RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube" jamesonadmin 01-08-05 14
                                     RE: ABC's American Journal Evening2 01-08-05 15
                                         RE: ABC's American Journal Ashley 01-08-05 16
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal Evening2 01-08-05 17
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal GC 01-08-05 18
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal jamesonadmin 01-08-05 19
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal Evening2 01-08-05 20
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal Margoo 01-08-05 21
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal Evening2 01-08-05 22
                                             RE: ABC's American Journal GC 01-08-05 23
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-09-05 24
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Margoo 01-10-05 25
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-10-05 26
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Margoo 01-10-05 27
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-10-05 28
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-10-05 29
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-10-05 30
                                             RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-10-05 37
  RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Mikie 01-10-05 31
     RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-10-05 32
         RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Margoo 01-10-05 33
             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-10-05 34
                 RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Mikie 01-10-05 35
                     RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-10-05 36
                         RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-10-05 38
                             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Margoo 01-10-05 39
                                 RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-11-05 40
                                     RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 41
                                         RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 42
                                             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 one_eyed_Jack 01-11-05 43
                                             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 44
                                             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 one_eyed_Jack 01-11-05 45
                                             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 46
                                             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 47
                                             RE: Secret Codes & Lingo Evening2 01-11-05 48
  RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Rainsong 01-11-05 49
     RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 50
         RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Margoo 01-11-05 51
             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 Evening2 01-11-05 52
             RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101 GC 01-11-05 53
                     RE: Thesis (1996) Evening2 01-11-05 55

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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
01-06-05, 05:52 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #0
 
   If that is what the killer had in mind, did the publicity - - the overwhelming publicity, make any film worthless?


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-06-05, 06:28 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #1
 
   I would think just the opposite. Imagine, creating THE kiddie snuff film of the century.


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Rainsong
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01-06-05, 06:46 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #2
 
   Yes, but to whom would you show it? Sure couldn't sell it.

Rainsong


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-06-05, 07:20 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #3
 
   Why couldn't it be sold? Maybe it was a "special" order and was hand-delivered to the buyer in January 1997.


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GC
unregistered user
01-07-05, 08:23 AM (EST)
 
10. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #1
 
   Jameson,

Have you ever heard from your sources thst JB's murder might have been filmed or pictures might have been taken? Just wondering......


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DonBradley
unregistered user
01-06-05, 08:03 PM (EST)
 
5. "Central Casting"
In response to message #0
 
   Its hard to get actors for a snuff film.
Its even harder to get kiddie actors.

And I doubt anyone would pay enough to have made this one worthwhile. All that 'heat'?

If someone were about to make a snuff film he would snatch some nobody kid from a park were at most the parents were poor. Too poor for lawyers, rewards, etc.


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-06-05, 08:05 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Central Casting"
In response to message #5
 
   I disagree with you Don. This was a "special" child,,,not one that would usually be a featured star in such a film,,,and, hence, the increase in value AND risk.


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Ashley
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01-06-05, 11:04 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: This is eerie..."
In response to message #6
 
   LAST EDITED ON 01-06-05 AT 11:13 PM (EST)
 
I had this same EXACT thought the other day but didn't think any of you would agree about it, so I didn't mention it. PLUS, the fact that it scares me to think about it.

I saw the movie 8mm a few years ago and it is TRUE that there are scum out there who are very prominent people willing to pay big money for these snuff films.

What if that is what the Calif. men were there for? What happened in Aspen when they all took a drive there shortly before Christmas? Then did the men go to the Ramsey party to check out the house?
See where the bedrooms were and the easiest way to get in and out of the home. Was she taken to a vacant house via suitcase? Brought back wrapped up in her white blanket and dumped in the basement?

I think it is something to consider very seriously.


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Ashley
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01-06-05, 11:09 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: This is eerie..."
In response to message #7
 
   Oh and I agree with jameson, if this scenario were true-- it would have made the film worthless, UNLESS, like Eve2 said it was hand delivered to someone right afterwards.

Like Scott Peterson, whoever did this HAD NO WAY of knowing HOW BIG her murder was going to be. Maybe it would be forgotten in a couple months, while they searched for a kidnapper for ransom ,that never was. That would be the end of it, or so they thought.


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-07-05, 00:15 AM (EST)
 
9. "RE: This is eerie..."
In response to message #8
 
   No, I think the people who did this knew EXACTLY how big this story would be because they knew, first hand, how the media operates and spins. JonBenet was their Angel (financial resource).


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Evening2
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01-07-05, 02:48 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube""
In response to message #9
 
   Several posters have read Janet's play "Hey, Rube". Law allows excerpts to be posted and discussed. I am requesting that those who have read it and have a copy to share with this group for discussion purposes.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
01-07-05, 07:01 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube""
In response to message #11
 
   Evening - I wonder what the law is on making copies and sending in regular mail - - I think the play is about a hundred pages long - that's 10 dollars a copy but maybe.... you think?

I guess we need to take this to email.


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-07-05, 08:51 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube""
In response to message #12
 
   Jameson,,,I just sent you an e-mail.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
01-08-05, 12:01 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Let's discuss "Hey, Rube""
In response to message #13
 
   I have a copy of the play in hand and will get back to you on it.


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Evening2
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01-08-05, 01:47 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #14
 
   I am looking for a transcript of ABC's American Journal for March 4, 1997. It contains an "interview" with Bill McReynolds.


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Ashley
unregistered user
01-08-05, 03:12 PM (EST)
 
16. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #15
 
   This isn't regarding the play, but the kiddie movies. Remember the neighbor said he saw a strange light coming from the kitchen area. I've always wondered if maybe someone had a camera and was filming the whole thing. Maybe at that point they were walking thru the kitchen with JB.


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-08-05, 03:23 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #16
 
   LAST EDITED ON 01-08-05 AT 03:23 PM (EST)
 
Yep Ashley,,,could be. Also, remember the BPD collected black metal and black cloth from the basement? Oh, and let's not forget the color of the duct tape,,,black,,,also used in film production.


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GC
unregistered user
01-08-05, 03:46 PM (EST)
 
18. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #17
 
   Yes.....I've always wondered if there were pictures or videotape taken of the murder.

I'll try again.......

Jameson........

Have any of your sources ever hinted at or mentioned that the murderer/s may have filmed or took pictures of what took place inside the house that night?

A simple yes or no will do. :)

Thanks


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
01-08-05, 04:12 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #18
 
   Hinted, yes. Even strongly suggested.

Have I seen proof or heard of proof? No.


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-08-05, 05:12 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #19
 
   Thanks, Jameson. I think that's very important in trying to solve the case. There has to be a reason why it has been strongly suggested that the murder was filmed. I don't think we need to know what evidence leads to that conclusion,,,what's important is that that conclusion has been strongly suggested by the crime scene.


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Margoo
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01-08-05, 05:15 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #20
 
   I don't think we need to know what evidence leads to that conclusion,,,what's important is that that conclusion has been strongly suggested by the crime scene.

Well, maybe for you ... but, for me, I certainly need to know in order to make my own evaluation. I need to know who, what, where, why, and when. (I am not saying jameson needs to post it on the world wide net. I AM saying that the weight of that statement is low compared to a statement that cites the 5 W's.)


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Evening2
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01-08-05, 05:26 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #21
 
   LAST EDITED ON 01-08-05 AT 05:27 PM (EST)
 
I too would LIKE to know, Margoo,,,but the chances of that happening are slim to none. However, just because we don't know what the crime scene contained that would create a strong suggestion that the murder was filmed is in NO way going to stop me from further sleuthing in that regard. As I said in an earlier post,,,we DO know of several items that were taken from the crime scene that might be part of what leads investigators to that conclusion. Can you think of any others?

Edited to add: Everyone has been looking for the motive,,,well,,,we may just have found it.


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GC
unregistered user
01-08-05, 06:07 PM (EST)
 
23. "RE: ABC's American Journal"
In response to message #19
 
   Thanks Jameson.


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-09-05, 10:23 PM (EST)
 
24. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #23
 
   With the wide variety of intelligent, knowing posters on this forum,,,I think we should be able to discuss the possibility of a kiddie snuff film as the motive for JonBenet's murder. I'm sure some of you might know of information regarding the filming and distribution of such undergound films (and potential value for one so unique) and I think a good discussion in that regard could be most beneficial in solving this case.


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Margoo
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01-10-05, 00:03 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #24
 
   http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/08181999Chat-SteveSingularUNEDITED.pdf

A Steve Singular chat from 1999 regarding the subject of child porn. I have never read his book, but I believe his THEORY has revolved around c.p.


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-10-05, 02:29 AM (EST)
 
26. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #25
 
   I copied and pasted this from a site called barbelith.com,,,

"So who then is guilty and should be punished for the child porn photos? The producer does not produce unless there is a demand. He who demands states his wishes and the producer follows up. The producer gets in a order for a toddlers snuff movie, he wants cash first and mostly the indentity of the client before he follows up and orders a toddler, the toddler is delivered, the movie made and shipped. Who should we punish, I ask you?"


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Margoo
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01-10-05, 11:45 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #26
 
   Is this taken from a discussion board? Is this someone just pondering the question and speculating the answers?

In the first sentence they are talking about child porn, then within the same statement, they move to 'toddler' snuff? That's a leap.

IF there are any snuff films, they are few (if any). This paragraph makes it sound like there are many circulating about and all ya gotta do is order one and one shall be made - as though they are made everyday. I would think that ANY snuff film would be kept under wraps and heavily protected from surfacing, not copied or made to order for a wide viewing audience.

The "official" word is that there are no snuff films.


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GC
unregistered user
01-10-05, 02:35 PM (EST)
 
28. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #27
 
  
Here ya go Margoo.....a couple of articles for ya. Article #1.....


British link to 'snuff' videos
Jason Burke in London, Amelia Gentleman in Moscow, Philip Willan in Rome

Sunday October 1, 2000

The Observer

“What do you want?” – “To see them die.”

Britain is a key link in the biggest ever international investigation into the production and supply of paedophile 'snuff' movies - in which children are murdered on film - an Observer investigation can reveal.

The key suspect in the inquiry, a Russian who was arrested last week in Moscow for distribution of thousands of sadistic child porn videos and pictures, was traced following the seizure of his products from British paedophiles.

Dmitri Vladimirovich Kuznetsov, a 30-year-old former car mechanic in Moscow, was identified after British Customs and police traced the origin of violent child porn videos found in the UK back to Russia.

Last week Italian police seized 3,000 of Kuznetsov's videos on their way to clients in Italy, sparking an international hunt for paedophiles who have bought his products. The Italian investigators say the material includes footage of children dying during abuse. Prosecutors in Naples are considering charging those who have bought the videos with complicity in murder. They say some may have specifically requested films of killings.

British authorities yesterday confirmed that scores of Kuznetsov's videos, produced in his small flat in Moscow's rundown Vykhino district, have been found in the UK. They are concerned that 'snuff' movies in which children are killed may have also been imported.

Around a dozen British men have already been arrested and charged with offences alleged to be connected to the Russian tapes. A second Russian child porn ring, which allegedly had a British distributor, was broken up earlier this year. The investigation into the importing of violent Russian child porn which led to the identification and subsequent imprisonment of Kuznetsov started about 15 months ago after Customs seized material coming into the country. Since then there have been dozens of other finds.

'We have seen some very, very nasty stuff involving sadistic abuse of very young children, but actual deaths on film takes it a whole step further. That is very worrying,' said one senior customs officer this weekend.

British paedophiles were paying between Ł50 and Ł100 for Kuznetsov's tapes, the officer said. Further fees were paid for access to a website that features pictures of extremely violent abuse.

Though two men arrested with Kuznetsov have also been imprisoned by Moscow authorities, only one of the three remains behind bars. Dmitri Ivanov was sentenced to 11 years for actually participating in the abuse that was being filmed. The others were released under an amnesty aimed at clearing Russia's overcrowded prisons.

When officers from the Moscow Criminal Investigation Department raided Kuznetsov's flat they found two boys in a makeshift studio. They seized a huge quantity of films and other pornographic material as well as lists of clients in Italy, Germany, America and Britain.

Last week Italian detectives moved in, following months of inquiries, and arrested eight people. The police searched more than 600 homes and say they now have evidence against about 500 people. Among the suspects were businessmen, public employees and a university student. Several of them were married, with children of their own. Hundreds of people are also under investigation in Germany.

The Russian videos, which had been ordered over the internet, were intercepted when they came into Italy by post, repackaged and then delivered by undercover police officers. They cost between Ł300 and Ł4,000, depending on what type of film was ordered.

Covert film of young children naked or undressing was known as a 'SNIPE' video. The most appalling category was code-named 'Necros Pedo' in which children were raped and tortured until they died.

Police in Russia and the UK believe that Kuznetsov and his associates have been in business for more than two years in which time they are believed to have recruited around 100 boys - aged between nine and 15 - to be filmed.

'Most of the children were rounded up from railway stations. A lot of them came from the suburbs, or surrounding regions and were from deprived, problem families,' said Kiril Mazurin, a police spokesman.

'Usually when children like this arrive in the capital, they've got no idea where to go and hang around in the station. It's very easy to entice this kind of teenager - with a promise of a warm bed or a trip to the cinema.'

Many were lured away from orphanages. 'Children are not locked in,' said Mazurin. 'Anyone can come along and promise them a meal at McDonalds. It doesn't take any more than that."

Some children were paid a commission to find other boys willing to be filmed, according to reports in the Russian press, for a fee of between 100 and 300 roubles (Ł2.50 - Ł7).

Kuznetsov had given up his job in 1998 to devote himself to the lucrative pornography industry. A self-taught computer expert, he was in the process of upgrading his equipment to allow him to e-mail videos directly to clients when police raided him.

Many customers repeatedly ordered videos from him. The Naples newspaper Il Mattino published a transcript of an alleged email exchange between a prospective client and the Russian vendors.

'Promise me you're not ripping me off,' says the Italian.

'Relax, I can assure you this one really dies,' the Russian responds.

'The last time I paid and I didn't get what I wanted.'

'What do you want?'

'To see them die.'



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GC
unregistered user
01-10-05, 02:45 PM (EST)
 
29. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #28
 
   I'm not able to find the full article........It was the Irish Times back in 2000........I found a brief snippet of the Times article....


"On September 29 of 2000, The Irish Times reported that: “Eight people were arrested in Italy and three in Russia, and police said 1,700 people were being investigated in Italy,” as yet another pedophile network surfaced. The images traded by this ring were “divided into several categories … The most gruesome, police said, was coded ‘Necros Pedo,’ in which children were raped and tortured to death.”


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-10-05, 04:46 PM (EST)
 
30. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #29
 
   Margoo,,,I didn't take it to read that kiddie snuff films are a dime a dozen. This post occurred in what I believe to be a pedo discussion. So, in that context, I'm sure they do occur on a regular, albeit limited basis. As far as the "official word",,,that's a bunch of balogne. Snuff films ARE out there,,,to be sure,,,and kiddie snuff films are more than likely much higher priced.

I am trying to find out how one in that circle would go about requesting a particular film. From this post, it appears the contact would be made to the producer and there are no middle men.

I'm hoping we can get some information flowing on this thread that will truly help with the investigation of the murder of JonBenet.


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GC
unregistered user
01-10-05, 10:01 PM (EST)
 
37. "RE: Back to Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #30
 
   Evening2,

I'm also hoping that this thread will lead to something positive.

Who do we know that lives or did live in Boulder and liked to molest little girls....three of them to be exact...ages 4, 6 &8. When they arrested him, they removed film & still photography equipment from his home. They also removed pictures of pornography. This man also worked very close to the Ramsey home. He was also a very rich man, he owned up to fourteen cars. Did the cops really look into Mr. J.B.????


Also, Gigax and Helgoth were associates of sorts. But there was another man they used to pal around with. This man had a relative that used to live and work in Boulder. Rumours abound about that relative's sexual behaviors........


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Mikiemoderator
unregistered user
01-10-05, 05:09 PM (EST)
 
31. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #0
 
   Excerpts from a previous post:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tidbits from Stephen Singular's book, "Presumed Guilty":
page 109:
PAM GRIFFIN TO SINGULAR ABOUT SIMMONS (JonBenet's photographer):
"As time went on after the murder, Randy just became hysterical. It was odd because I'd never heard him cry before about anything. He began calling me late at night and saying that people were going to come out to where he lived and kill him. He had a wild, scary sound in his voice. Then he said something that really stopped me."
"What was that"
He said that he didn't have an alibi for the night of last December 25. 'Why do you need an alibi' I asked him. He wouldn't answer that question. I asked him where he was on Christmas night. He said that he didn't want to talk about it. In the past, heůs always wanted to talk about everything. "

Pam went on to say the BPD never questioned her about Randy. Also Randy had once wanted to shoot Kristine nude, but Pam refused.

SINGULAR ON SIMONS from "Presumed Guilty", page 115:

"Two days after I spoke with Hunter about Randy Simons, Pam Griffin told me about a photograph Simons had taken of her daughter. It showed Kristine with a kite Simons had made himself. Attached to the kite was a white, nylonlike material bearing some resemblance to the cord that had been tied around JonBenet's wrist. During one of Simons' panicky late-night calls to Griffin, he had asked her if she recognized the material on the girl's wrist."

Together they looked at the photo of Kristine but were unable to judge whether it matched the cord on JonBenet's wrist. Pam had never seen the photo of JonBenet's wrist and Singular felt unqualified to make a reasonable judgement. Singular later took the photo to Hunter and it was then put in the "war room" by DeMuth and Ainsworth, who were assisting Hunter with the investigation at the time.

OTHER INTERESTING TIDBITS:
Singular says the two people who seem most suspicious are Fleet White and Randy Simons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Simons thought that someone was going to kill him. I think that meant that he knew too much. It very well could mean there was child pornography involved...maybe a snuff film.

Furthermore, I early on suspected that Santa's trip to Spain might have been a way to sell a video...a snuff video. But then how would anyone prove that?


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-10-05, 05:23 PM (EST)
 
32. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #31
 
   I agree Mikie,,,I have always been suspicious (to say the least) of the McReynolds' trip to Spain on January 7, 1997. And, after Janet said the trip had been "planned" it goes along with the delivery of a snuff film which might have previously been ordered.

I don't think it would be too difficult for someone in the know to find out where they went in Spain. Of course, the best way to find out would be to question Janet McReynolds. Maybe call another grand jury.

A piece of "evidence" that might be kept under wraps could be the white top with the sequined "star" that JonBenet was found in. It might not actually be the top JonBenet wore to bed that night.


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Margoo
Charter Member
01-10-05, 05:27 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #32
 
   As far as the "official word",,,that's a bunch of balogne.

I suggest you take it up with the "officials" then, not me. It is a fact, however, that the "offical word" is that there are no snuff films just as the "official word" seems to be that there have been no satanist killings. Go figure, (but don't take it up with me; I'm not an "official" making those claims).


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-10-05, 06:01 PM (EST)
 
34. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #33
 
   Margoo,,,I wasn't taking it up with you,,,just a comment in general because I'm sure all posters here know the "official word" is that there are no snuff films. I'm also sure the posters here know better.


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Mikiemoderator
unregistered user
01-10-05, 06:17 PM (EST)
 
35. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #34
 
   fwiw...I wouldn't be surprised if Danielle van Dam's murder was a snuff film.


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-10-05, 06:31 PM (EST)
 
36. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #35
 
   I'm always amazed to hear the "official word" is that there are no snuff films. We all know the sick things that perverts do to children and other adults,,,how far a leap is it to have a perversion for watching death and getting off on it?,,,"she dies, she dies, she dies."


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GC
unregistered user
01-10-05, 10:03 PM (EST)
 
38. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #36
 
  
Evening2,
I'm also hoping that this thread will lead to something positive.

Who do we know that lives or did live in Boulder and liked to molest little girls....three of them to be exact...ages 4, 6 &8. When they arrested him, they removed film & still photography equipment from his home. They also removed pictures of pornography. This man also worked very close to the Ramsey home. He was also a very rich man, he owned up to fourteen cars. Did the cops really look into Mr. J.B.????


Also, Gigax and Helgoth were associates of sorts. But there was another man they used to pal around with. This man had a relative that used to live and work in Boulder. Rumours abound about that relative's sexual behaviors........


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Margoo
Charter Member
01-10-05, 11:42 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #38
 
   GC, can you link us to a news article or something with regard to this man's arrest?


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GC
unregistered user
01-11-05, 08:12 AM (EST)
 
40. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #39
 
   Can't find the articles anymore. This was several years ago......Here's a snippet I found.........

""""First Baptist Church treasurer Jerry Berry is arrested for fondling 3 little girls. Police find albums of child porn and seize 5 computers. (Daily Camera 8/14/99, p. 1B)""""""


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-11-05, 11:00 AM (EST)
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41. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #40
 
   What are some of the "buzz" words in the "snuff film" underworld,,,particularly regarding kiddie snuff??


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-11-05, 11:23 AM (EST)
 
42. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #41
 
   I was doing a little nosing around and I came across this:

A reference was made regarding porn photos/films that said,,,"a classic sbtc shot",,,

Anyone know what kind of shot that is?


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one_eyed_Jack
unregistered user
01-11-05, 11:31 AM (EST)
 
43. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #42
 
   >I was doing a little nosing around and I came across this:

>A reference was made regarding porn photos/films that
>said,,,"a classic sbtc shot",,,

>Anyone know what kind of shot that is?

Where did you find that, Evening?


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Evening2
unregistered user
01-11-05, 11:32 AM (EST)
 
44. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #43
 
   LAST EDITED ON 01-11-05 AT 11:49 AM (EST)
 
On a discussion board about porn.

Here's the link:

mrblunt.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-67070.html


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one_eyed_Jack
unregistered user
01-11-05, 11:43 AM (EST)
 
45. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #44
 
   I found it, Evening. I see why you didn't post the link. Something about the joys of sodomy...

I have no idea what they mean by "sbtc shot."


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-11-05, 11:51 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #45
 
   OEJ,,,I went ahead and posted the link to MrBlunt. The reference wasn't simply "sbtc shot",,,but "classic sbtc shot".

That word "classic" must mean that type of shot is well-known in the industry.


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-11-05, 11:57 AM (EST)
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47. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #46
 
   LAST EDITED ON 01-11-05 AT 11:58 AM (EST)
 
Here's a little bit about Oswald and the Kennedy assasination. Does anyone know what the SBT stands for here?

"The Lone Nut Theory is that there is a Oswald missed shot at
> >approximately Z160 then the Oswald (SBT) shot at Z224 and then the final
> >head shot from Oswald at Z312."

Is that the Single Bullet Theory?


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Evening2
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01-11-05, 02:20 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Secret Codes & Lingo"
In response to message #47
 
   It would seem to me that those in the industry of kiddie snuff films would have their own secret codes and lingo,,,much like pedophiles do. Maybe the ransom note uses such lingo.


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Rainsong
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01-11-05, 02:30 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #0
 
   Do Snuff Films Really Exist?


Also known as "white heat" films and "the real thing," the snuff film myth lives on like Bigfoot, despite the fact that no law enforcement agency in America has publicly admitted to ever locating one. Alan Sears, former executive director of the Attorney General's commission on pornography: "Our experience was that we could not find any such thing as a commercially produced snuff film," says Sears. "Our commission was all-inclusive and exhaustive. If snuff films were available, we'd have found them."

Yet the rumour of snuff persists. The scenarios are invariably the same - a remote jungle village in South America, a deserted beach in Thailand, the landscaped garden of a German industrialist, a lonely Everglades swamp. The victims are usually women, often performing a sexual act, their deaths sensational and unexpected. (The term "snuff" in reference to a specific genre of filmmaking where the actors are supposedly killed for the benefit of the viewer was coined by Ed Sanders in his book The Family-The Story of Charles Manson's Dune Buggy Attack Battalion . The term was used to describe unsubstantiated claims that Manson and his followers may have been involved in perpetrating such crimes.)


Rumours of snuff have surfaced in many Asian and western European countries, including Great Britain. In 1990 The Times printed a story recounting a 1975 American investigation in which police had discovered evidence of Mexican immigrants being killed in snuff films, "in lurid detail to satisfy the insatiable demands of the pornography industry." It goes on to tell the story of a Californian who in 1985 murdered 25 women on film; video tapes of the actual killing were said to be doing a thriving business at video rental stores.

In the same Times piece, Dr. Ray Wyre, clinical director of the Gracewell Clinic for convicted paedophiles in Birmingham, England, is quoted as having viewed snuff films firsthand in America. When contacted, however, Wyre indicated that the films he saw were "sophisticated simulations" but insisted that the FBI had a number of snuff films in their possession. He said snuff films were definitely available in England, but that he had never seen one.

Detective Mick Hames, head of the Obscene Publications Division at Scotland Yard, responded to Wyre's assertions. "I'd be the first to know if there were any in Britain," says Hames. "But there just aren't. Though I understand snuff films exist in America."

For all its lack of verifiable evidence, one wonders why the mythology of snuff survives. Ask any L.A. hipster, and although they themselves haven't seen a snuff film, they know someone who has. It's become an accepted truth, like global warming: Snuff films are out there because it seems plausible that they would be.

Director Paul Schrader, who alluded to the snuff phenomenon in his film "Hardcore," recently said, "Movies are a flexible medium. It's easy to simulate death on film, which is partly why people think snuff films exist. They've seen simulated versions and believe they're genuine. I think its conceivable these films exist, but whether they do or not is less important than the public's belief that they do; their willingness to believe in an evil fantasy. That's what's interesting here."

Logic tells us that in a world plagued by violent crime, where as any policeman will tell you an assassination can be purchased on the streets of the nation's capital for a few thousand pounds or dollars, the possibility exists for snuff films to be realised. Others knowledgeable about the snuff phenomenon refute the blanket denial of the authorities.

It would be quite naive to think they don't exist, Just because one hasn't been shown on any network news doesn't mean they're not out there. When someone steals a Rembrandt, it doesn't show up in a gallery. It's well known that the Shah of Iran kept videotapes of Savak (the Iranian secret police) torturing people to death and that Idi Amin collected video equipment and routinely witnessed executions.

This is a world where kiddie sex tours are legal in some countries, Serial killers have been documenting their murders for years, keeping their own private mementos of their crimes to perpetuate the fantasy; it's part of their M.O. It's reasonable to assume that it has occurred to one of these people to film a murder, and that it's possible one of these films is being circulated.

The video age, in which movies can be produced instantly and cheaply at home, has opened up a vast home-movie market and the possibility that snuff could be produced relatively easily. If snuff existed on film or video, it would be so far underground the average person would never see it.

http://www.cinemaxs.co.uk/page6.html



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Evening2
Charter Member
01-11-05, 02:55 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #49
 
   Thanks for sharing that article, Rainsong,,,I couldn't help but notice this statement:

"Alan Sears, former executive director of the Attorney General's commission on pornography: "Our experience was that we could not find any such thing as a commercially produced snuff film," says Sears."

Notice he said "commercially" produced.


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Margoo
Charter Member
01-11-05, 04:00 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #50
 
   I'd interpret that to mean produced to sell. What are you thinking it means, Evening? Or, are you thinking a film may have been made just for personal use (as in not for sale)?


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Evening2
Charter Member
01-11-05, 04:09 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #51
 
   Well,,,I think it was made to sell,,,on a very personal level (someone known by the perp/s),,,not what I think of as commercial,,,even in the underworld,,although it is very possible it was made for the perps own personal use.


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GC
unregistered user
01-11-05, 04:13 PM (EST)
 
53. "RE: Kiddie Snuff Films 101"
In response to message #51
 
   I've posted two articles mentioning snuff films. How about one more...........this one dated January 10th 2005.

The next to last paragraph in the article is where the "snuff" term is used. The snuff information came out during a pre-trial hearing.......


Kidnap, rape and animal sex porn trial starts

10 January 2005

AMSTERDAM —The trial of two Belgian brothers, and three other people accused of kidnapping, raping and forcing women to have sex with animals for pornographic videos has opened in the Dutch city of Lelystad.

Three two Belgians and a Dutchman — were arrested in April last year on accusations they forced three kidnapped female asylum seekers to have sex with men and animals in a farm shed in the Dutch village of Kraggenburg.

The trial opened on Monday.

Both Belgian men claim they were pressured by the other to participate in the offences, while the Dutchman — who held the lease for the farm shed — denies any involvement. The girlfriends of the Belgian men are also

standing trial. All suspects are aged between 24 and 46.

The Belgian suspects have been identified as Marino and Philip M., their Dutch girlfriends as Rosie B. and Lorensia F. and the Dutchman has been identified as Eduard van E., of Rotterdam. They are charged with kidnapping, rape, human smuggling and membership of a criminal gang.

Three young North African asylum seekers were kidnapped in Belgium and forced to undergo various sex acts in the farm shed, until one of the women escaped in April to a nearby farmhouse and alerted police.

It was revealed in a pre-trial hearing in July that the three women possibly escaped a brutal death in which they would have been dismembered in front of a camera and murdered for a "snuff" film. The gang had allegedly already made contact with people who were willing to carry out the crime.

The case has been postponed since July last year because both witnesses and victims needed to give statements to police. The main suspects have also undergone a psychiatric assessment in the Dutch judiciary's observation clinic, the Pieter Baan Centrum in Utrecht.

The trial is scheduled to be heard over two days.



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Evening2
Charter Member
01-11-05, 10:06 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: Thesis (1996)"
In response to message #54
 
   In 1996 a Spanish film, "Tesis" was released. Here's a brief synopsis:

An undergraduate writing her thesis on violence in the media discovers that snuff films are being made on campus, and someone wants to make her a star.

This debut feature from Alejandro Amenabar (THE OTHERS, OPEN YOUR EYES) is a chilling rumination on the news media as well as a frightening genre work.

Run Time: 1 hr 58 min (118 minutes)


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