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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 08:44 AM (EST)
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"Prime Suspect - the documentary"
 
   I have my copy in hand and while I don't have time to do a transcript I would like to talk about what is in the show.

It starts out introducing the case - JonBenet the most famousmurdered child and her parentshated - they show the end of the Geraldo trial where the parents are found "liable". Both John and Patsy deny the charges and the show points out that they were never charged.

Says they live in a remote part of the country. I guess, maybe, but .... nah, it isn't unpopulated or so remote. The show says America is starting to forget - her name is not in the news like before - - so true. So true.

Show then goes to group around table - Ollie Gray, John SanAugistin, David Williams and Jennifer Getty. Says they have identified a NUMBER of suspects and that they have a prime suspect - - it is obvious they will be sharing that with the viewers.

John San says that there is evidence now that "will tell you who the killer is".

Boulder is called a "haven of affluence and privilege". Then describes the crime. Part of the 911 call is played.

It says that the police immediately suspected the parents - that by the time the body was removed they were sure the parents were involved, that information was "leaked" to the media to promote that viewpoint - like that there were no footprints in the snow. Media was told there wasevidence of pornography and sexual abuse. Media wastold the theory was JonBenét wet the bed and Patsy flipped out. It showed Tony Frost on TV pushing that theory.

Then it goes to Tom Haney questioning Patsy and suggesting that theory - - Patsy simply said it didn't happen that way. That no family member did that.

Show says BPD didn't believe her and brought in outside prosecutors to run grand jury - - then has Hunter at his press conference saying no charges would be filed.

I really hope this airs here- - the images are important and I can't do them justice. I know that.



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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
Prime Suspect - the documentary [View All] jamesonadmin 07-02-04 TOP
  continuing jamesonadmin 07-02-04 1
     Part 2 jamesonadmin 07-02-04 2
         RE: Part 2 jamesonadmin 07-02-04 3
             Part 3 jamesonadmin 07-02-04 4
                 RE: Part 3 jamesonadmin 07-02-04 5
                     RE: Part 3 jamesonadmin 07-02-04 6
                         RE: Part 3 Hudson 07-02-04 7
  RE: Prime Suspect - the documentary Dave 07-02-04 8
     RE: Prime Suspect - the documentary jamesonadmin 07-02-04 9

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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 08:55 AM (EST)
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1. "continuing"
In response to message #0
 
   The show explains that ITV had past shows that exposed the lies and misled investigation. No porn or sexual abuse had been found. There was no snow near the house. There was evidence of a break-in. The blow to the head was not first - forensic evidence proved that.

They are leaning heavily on Lou Smit's powerpoint presentation here and use footage from the last documentary - the one Lou was the focus of - - filming done when he was NOT working for the DA.

The photos took my breath away again. Seeing the autopsy photos again like that - this was a brutal crime - - people forget how it was.

They point out that she was immobilized by a stun gun then tortured with the garotte.

Lou explains how the blow to the head didn't swell or bleed - - it was NOT first - the blow happened just before the time of her death.

Back to Haney asking Patsy what she would say if he told her they had trace evidence that linked her to the crime - - she said "go retest" "I want to work with you, not against you." "Quit screwing around.... let's find the person who did this."

They explain how Lou Smit quit the investigation. Greg Walta explains that the investigation was in trouble. The narrator says the new investigators have uncovered new facts and have a "prime suspect".

End part one.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 09:05 AM (EST)
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2. "Part 2"
In response to message #1
 
   Lou brought back by Boulder DA - banned by confidentiality and no longer talking about the case. BDA not funded to investigate cases so they are using volunteer detectives - Ollie Gray and John Sanagustin, David Williams and Jennifer Getty. They can talk.


They do not explain who all of those people were - so what follows is not so much the program as my information.

Ollie was hired by Lin Wood, John is his partner. Early on, and this IS mentioned, the BPD tried to hire them to make a case against the Ramseys. When Ollie and John refused to take on the job with so narrow a function (not conduct a full and honest investigation of all suspects) they declined. Later Lin called. I met Ollie and know he is a very good man. I don't know John personally but have only heard good things about him.

David Williams was a private investigator working for the Ramseys - his office was in the same building as Haddon and associates. I met with David several times and thought he was very good.

Jennifer Getty worked for Ellis Armistead. I will say I spoke to her a couple of times and was not impressed. But she must have something to bring to the table or she wouldn't be there. She is described as a "former investigator".


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 09:25 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Part 2"
In response to message #2
 
   The group is talking about how the cops never did a door-to-door search for information. Convicted pedophiles who lived nearby were never spoken to or eliminated as suspects. The message is that the police simply wouldn't look anywhere but at the Ramseys.

People started sending leadsto Ramsey lawyers - 67 boxesworth. They were shared with police and the police didn't seem interested - - it was frustrating.

The police had DNA evidence and failed to test it. Police had one sample from the panties analyzed - - JonBenét's blood mixed with some foreign DNA - - DNA consistant with DNA found under JonBenét's fingernails. Both came from the same unknown white male.

Ollie said the police knew in January of 1997 that it was not Ramsey DNA.

Program says that someone working to make the casefor the grand jury three years later insisted on checking the second sample and that was "a bombshell". The second sample was almost capable of identifying the person - and it matched the earlier samples.

When Keenan took over she made it a priority to enhance the sample and get it into CODIS - - that hasbeen done.

Show points out that the DNA is great BUT may not be the answer - the killer may not have done another crime that forced his DNA into the system with his name attached.

So more work is needed - more investigation. The team has searched the records and have found about a dozen reasonable suspects - - one is their prime suspect.

To Hunter saying words the FBI wrote - the suspect list narrows - soon you will be the only one there. They were said to put pressure on the killer - - remember the press conference in February?? Hours later Helgoth was dead.

John Kenady is shown - middle aged, grey hair and beard. He says Helgoth was violent and scary. Had a small gun he kept in his pocket - would point it at people's heads and shoot just missing them. Great entertainment. Another man on camera verified that - a first hand witness.

This is filmed inthe junkyard.

They talk about him killing cats - shooting them, strangling them by hand. Saying he wondered what it would be like to crack a human skull.

They show his body - full body and full face. Graphic. Very upsetting.

Kenady asked to go through his friends possessions and he started to think Helgoth might have been caught up in the Ramsey case.

Dead the day after the pressconference - Kenady thought that strange.

Kenady said Helgoth talked about having a partner and they would each be getting 50-60 thousand soon (that would be between 110 and 120 thousand from somewhere)- but Christmas came and went and there was no money.

Crack in skull comment and the injury to JonBenét - - Kenady went to cops10-15 times and no one would call him back or talk to him. The new investigators have.

What they found was - according to the doc "astonishing".

End of part two


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 09:35 AM (EST)
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4. "Part 3"
In response to message #3
 
   Video of Helgoth playing with little girl. Daughter of girlfriend.

He collected Barbie dolls.

Girlfriend says he was infactuated with little girls. She had to get a restraining order to protect her daughter. She got home one day and her daughter was on his bed. He was naked under the covers and he said he "couldn't trust himself with her daughter".

Ollie Gray on camera again saying the police should have followed up on this.

Film found in Helgoth's possession included violent programs but also other things that got their attention. Numerous clips of children.

One clip they show has a young girl getten woke up by Santa. Disney movie - The Santa Clause with Tim Allen. She is not afraid and says,"You're fatter this year." He says, "Thank you very much."

They talk about the news fottage they found in the middle of a video - - news of Allie B's murder.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 09:48 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Part 3"
In response to message #4
 
   They go into the photo of Helgoth's body and the stun gun there. It is not an Air Taser, but Ollie says they know he had one.

The program incorrectly says that it hasnever been made public before but there were TWO sets of prints int he basement room - - one Hi-Tec that appear to be the boots found nextto Helgoth's body.

They are wrong there - - if you look at the Rocky Mountain News stories on Lou you can see photographs of both prints....

The boot print however - the Hi-Tec - Ollie talks about them. He is making a case for them being made by Helgoth's boots. Photos showing dirt in same grooves. Ollie believes mold fromthe Ramsey basement is in those boots.

Goes on to talk about the death - was it suicide or murder? More graphic and upsetting photos of Helgoth.

Pillow used to quiet sound - - this a man who lived in the junk yard property and shot his gun there with no concerns. No one was home when he did - who was he being quiet for?

His friends say they doubt he would silence the shot - not his style.

The angle of the shot - - Helgoth was right handed but the shot was from the left and angled to the right - low in the chest - nearly impossible to do.

was it a murder or suicide? BPD didn't want to investigate that.

The new investigators don't think Helgoth was the killer - his DNA says he was not - - but they think he was involved, was there.

It would have been difficutlt for one person to carry in the stun gun, cord,tape and do all that was done - - and the note talks about kidnappers as more than one. The invesigators think helgoth had a partner who killed him to make sure he remained silent.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 10:09 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Part 3"
In response to message #5
 
   Moving on - they think there is someone else out there.

They talk about the Midnight Burglar who was active right before the murders. The Internet people caught that early on - we have the Boulder press release on that - - a press release the BPD removed from their site a few months into 1997.

Nothing much was taken - investigators think it wasmore the thrill of stalking and being where they were not supposedto be.

Kenady talks about Helgoth as a stalker who wore black ninja cloths that covered everything but his eyes. One night Kenady was working in his garage and felt like he was being watched. Saw a pair of eyes and knew they were Mikes. asked, Is that you, Mike. Mike said yeah. Kenady asked how long he had been standing there and Helgoth answered "Long enough."

Strange.

So investigators knew Helgoth was a night stalker who wore black ninja clothes - - and they looked to find a violent associate who shared his interest in martial arts and small girls and found the man we call SX. He "frightens those around him" and has since disappeared. People he knew on camera saying he was dangerous - they feared him.

They are showing the trailer park near the junk yard where SX lived. Trailers close together, a bit run down.

Narrator says the man's name is know but since he has not been charged they are not revealing it.

He fits the profile of a stalker and killer. Very controlling. Would lash out if not in control.

Always wore black clothing, black Tee-shirt, pants and boots. Liked martial arts, throwing knives. Was convicted for a stabbing in trailer park - witnesses afraid to testify against him. Police records show him as violent, known for sexual assault, a pedophile. In prison in 1980's for sexual assault on a child. Reason to believe he worked on the ramsey house before they moved in.

SX raised wolf dogs - - they showed video of a dog - black and brown. Helgoth had bought two of the dogs.

(Need to go - back later)


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Hudson
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07-02-04, 03:20 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Part 3"
In response to message #6
 
   Sounds interesting. I too hope we get to see it soon.

As a cat person, the only thing that sounds really far fetched is the claim that Helgoth strangled cats with his hands. That would be like strangling a barbed wire fence.


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Dave
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07-02-04, 04:34 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Prime Suspect - the documentary"
In response to message #0
 
   Jams,

Thanks for posting that.

I'm still bothered that so much info comes from Kenady with only what appears to be intermittent confirmation. I certainly do agree, though, that Helgoth and SX are very good suspects, which is what Tracey claims is all he is saying. I would also guess that with so many exerienced invetstigators involved (in contrast to ST et al.), they've checked out Kenady's claims more so than is being said.

Based on what you desribed, I think Tracey's comment about "virus" has more to do with the grisly details in the documentary than with going against previous theories. This isn't meant for polite society at dinner.

This makes BPD look even stupider, doesn't it? Not only did they refuse to pursue any intruder theory, but when intruder evidence and information was dumped on their doorstep in early '97, they kicked it into the bushes.

I believe that some states assign homicides to the state police. Perhaps when populations are under 250,000 (some reasonable number), states should require that homicides be reassigned to a larger investigative unit so as to minimize the likelihood of a Ramsey-like disaster. That way people would also not be as likely to be demanding special prosecutors, etc. because, in a sense, they are already pre-assigned. There would also be more centralization of information so that cases that are related would be identified as such earlier. Just a thought (that Colorado should consider).

Thanks again. I hope they find this other guy and check it all out "real soon now."


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-02-04, 08:35 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Prime Suspect - the documentary"
In response to message #8
 
   There is more to come - I just don't have time right now to finish it. I understand there is a transcript somewhere - if it can be copied and pasted, I would appreciate it if someone would post it here so we can have it.


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