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Conferences Ramsey discussion 2 Topic #337
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Myself
unregistered user
03-04-05, 01:17 AM (EST)
 
"Lighthouse"
 
   http://www.webbsleuths.org/dcforum/DCForumID36/14.html

Take a look at the theory I posted some time ago and tell me what you think.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
Lighthouse [View All] Myself 03-04-05 TOP
  RE: Lighthouse bump 03-04-05 1
     Helgoth Myself 03-04-05 2
         geography DonBradley 03-04-05 3
             RE: geography The Lighthouse 03-04-05 4
                 RE: geography Evening2 03-04-05 5
         RE: Helgoth Mikie 03-04-05 6
             RE: Helgoth The Lighthouse 03-05-05 7
                 RE: Helgoth TrollSpotter 03-05-05 8
                     RE: Helgoth W* 03-06-05 9
                         RE: Helgoth W* 03-06-05 10
                             RE: Helgoth flyingballoons 03-06-05 11
                                 RE: Brownsville, TX Evening2 03-06-05 12
                                     RE: Brownsville, TX The Lighthouse 03-07-05 15
                     RE: Helgoth The Lighthouse 03-07-05 13
                         RE: Helgoth The Lighthouse 03-07-05 14
                         RE: Helgoth TrollSpotter 03-08-05 16
                             troll to house post little reader 03-09-05 17
                                 RE: troll to house post TrollSpotter 03-10-05 18

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bump
unregistered user
03-04-05, 01:18 AM (EST)
 
1. "RE: Lighthouse"
In response to message #0
 
   What I really think happened:
Before I go any further, I should say that I don’t think that JonBenet was killed by a family member. It
is what I think- if I am later proven to be wrong, I am not attached to my idea to the point that I
would deny that possibility. I don’t believe that they owe me their innocence. But at this stage I have
an intruder theory and that is what I am going to post. I am doing this because I would like to start a
thread and can’t think of any other topic.

My reasons for not thinking it was Patsy or John or Burke or John Andrew or Melinda are many and
varied. That can be the subject of another post. At this point, the only thing that would convince me
that there were involved would be a confession. That has not happened.

I have an idea that it was some kind of a dare that went wrong and there may have been more than
one person involved, I think there were two. Each of those people had a different motivation for being
there. Person X was there because he/she was bored, lonely, under the wrong influence and naïve.
Person Y was there because he/she had a grudge against the Ramsey’s- knew them well and had
chosen them as a target for a reason.
Somehow Person Y convinced Person X that they could pull off some kind of kidnapping and X thought
that would be a cool idea. I don’t know how well they might have known each other previously- we
had a killing here in our suburb which was a group murder and the five that killed only met each other
a few weeks before they killed. It was just an unfortunate dynamic so I know that can happen. Person
X was the easily influenced type of person.

So X and Y go into the house while the family were out at the Whites. They have a prowl around the
house and check it out. Person X is quite “taken” by the opulent lifestyle of these “rich folks” and
believes that the kidnapping is a good idea and will go off without a hitch. So X sits down to start
writing a note- maybe it started off as a joke and dare, so X has no paper. X looks around for paper
and pen and sits in the breakfast room to write.

Meanwhile Y walks over the house, exploring the intimacies of their life. Y knows that this will be more
than a kidnapping. But Y has to convince X that it is a kidnapping otherwise X will get scared and
leave. So when X asks the knowledgeable Y for advice on what to write, Y offers the first figure that
comes to mind from looking thru the papers in the study- $118,000. Man, Y can’t believe someone
could get a bonus of a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars and wants to make sure that is in the
note. Because Y is mad- feels wronged by either the Ramsey family or those that succeed in the
capitalist world, or may have any other reason for feeling pissed. Y is pissed off. Y is unbalanced. Y is
up to his eyeballs on speed and testosterone driven. It doesn’t matter to Y what they write, they’re
never gonna collect the money. X relies on Y’s expertise and dutifully writes $118,000.

As the time passes, X starts to re-think the idea and is not so sure it is a good one. Y gets more
aggressive and more determined, more agitated and impatient.

Now at this point I can start to see several possibilities. I can see that X might have had second
thoughts and decided to leave. They might have had an argument about it. Or Y may have
encouraged X to leave. Or X might have felt so threatened by Y that X just left the house and tried to
forget it. “I’m out of here! You’re on your own!” Theirs was a strange dynamic.

If X left without taking any further part in the plan then I have Y having gotten the note somehow,
waiting around for the Ramseys to return. After they go to sleep, Y goes upstairs and- either with
stun gun, or hand over mouth, or coercion, or bribing- gets JBR downstairs into the basement. I
believe that someone told her Santa was coming and maybe this could fit in here. I am not sure if Y
knows the family or if he is a friend of a friend. I have an idea for who I think X is but I don’t know
about Y. I have tried to find a link between X and the family but I am not sure.

After the murder was committed- Y having strangled JBR with garrotte and then bashing her over the
head with baseball bat, Y leaves the house. The note is left behind to implicate X because X is the
person that will suspect Y and needs to be subdued.

If X did not leave and decided to hang around and be a part of the plot, maybe because has the note
and thus X under control, then what I think happened is that at some point after the Ramseys got
back, the two decide that X will leave and wait for Y and JBR at some place, Y will be the one to get
JBR and leave the note, and they will complete the plan for the kidnap when they meet up at the
other end. X leaves and Y kills JBR (he was always going to) and then once Y meets up with X, X
realises the betrayal and the fact that the note has been left behind. So X is caught up in murder
rather than kidnapping.

Other thoughts:
X was not tested for handwriting because the link to the family was thru Y who was clever enough not
to be the one to write the note. The note was written by the one who thought it was a kidnapping
and who would not have taken place unless it was, who would never have taken place in a murder.
Which begs the question: what did Y need from X? There had to be something- expertise, access to
something, equipment? I am not sure.

My chief suspect for X is the Boots person who was found in a suspicious suicide two months after the
killing. Boots had Hi Tech Boots (hence the nickname), a stun gun and if I remember correctly, some
other paraphernalia. Also, Boots family were involved in some kind of dispute with the council. Did
anyone in Boot’s family know the Ramseys, or the Whites or the McSantas? Or any other peripheral
characters? I am not sure.

I need more time to think about my suspect for Y. I did have one after reading about someone who
had frequented the area after the killing and who wrote letters on the internet starting with “Listen!”
If we can draw parallels with “and hence”, we can draw them with “Listen!” surely. But I don’t know if
I really think this person is Y. I need to give it more thought.

Thanks
M


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Myself
unregistered user
03-04-05, 01:21 AM (EST)
 
2. "Helgoth"
In response to message #1
 
   I live in Australia and recently (within the past week) I saw a documentary by someone named Erin Moriarty on TV. I thought the whole caption on Helgoth was compelling.
Now I am reading here and it seems some people think Susannah Chase was linked to JonBenet. Was her death shortly after that of JonBenet? Was she linked in the same manner as Helgoth- a guilty party turned victim, or was she simply victim.
If anyone could clarify that would be good.

also- does the southwestern bell telephone company actually cater to colorado? I thought that colorado was in the north west?


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DonBradley
unregistered user
03-04-05, 09:14 AM (EST)
 
3. "geography"
In response to message #2
 
   Thats okay, Myself.
Our knowledge of Australian geography is probably a bit deficient too.

And neither corporate names nor geographical boundaries are ever guaranteed to make sense.

NorthWestern University is in Chicago, a mid-Western city which is located nowhere near the states of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho which would generally be described as constituting the Pacific Northwest but which was in the NorthWest back in the 1800s or something.

Telephone service is often provided by any number of companies that have gone through name changes and have a patchwork of service areas.


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The Lighthouse
unregistered user
03-04-05, 07:36 PM (EST)
 
4. "RE: geography"
In response to message #3
 
   I believe I saw your theory at least a year ago and thought how close you were.
I already posted how it happened earlier but to help you for the moment, the one problem that you have, except for where you are looking for your suspects, is:

"Why did he leave the body when he could have taken her somewhere to really take his time?"

It was because the other two accomplices would never have let him do what he did to JonBenet. They were still unaware of what happened to her till news of her being sexually assaulted was released.

Please let this soak in. No one who knew JonBenet was a participant. No one connected to the family would have harmed her. They have nothing to do with this, just a trio of sadistic losers, shocking to even think they are parents as well, the author of the ransom note and the girl who participated. It galls me that they should even have the right to enjoy their children. I can't wait to take them away from them and those children to know the truth about their parent.

Well, losers, what are you going to tell them?

You won't have to, they'll figure out what to call you on their own.

Southwestern Bell does not service Colorado, but that's not the reason he wrote them down. They were on their way to something in Texas and he had that on the brain.

Your Friend,
The Lighthouse


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Evening2
unregistered user
03-04-05, 09:00 PM (EST)
 
5. "RE: geography"
In response to message #4
 
   Lighthouse,,,were they by chance heading to Austin, Texas?


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Mikiemoderator
unregistered user
03-04-05, 09:22 PM (EST)
 
6. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #2
 
   >I live in Australia and recently (within the past week) I
>saw a documentary by someone named Erin Moriarty on TV. I
>thought the whole caption on Helgoth was compelling.
>Now I am reading here and it seems some people think
>Susannah Chase was linked to JonBenet. Was her death shortly
>after that of JonBenet? Was she linked in the same manner as
>Helgoth- a guilty party turned victim, or was she simply
>victim.
>If anyone could clarify that would be good.
>
>also- does the southwestern bell telephone company actually
>cater to colorado? I thought that colorado was in the north
>west?


Susannah Chase was killed in Boulder on Dec 21, 1997, about a year after JB. The only person I know who seems to link the two is RHGC who thinks the same person killed both and I agree with that, in spite of the planted imotile sperm. (If you think of the two means of killing, you can imagine that it takes a particularly brutal and heartless person to do those things, a trained killer as opposed to a rage incident type of killer.) Chris Wolf was apparently an acquaintance of SC, although he did not apparently know JB personally. I think he once was in JR's office for some journalist article about AG. So there is that weak link between the two, i.e. CW. CW was investigated by BPD for both crimes. No doubt he knows things that he cannot divulge, and if involved, was probably not the killer.

RHGC believes there is a pattern to the killings, such as blonde hair and names which relate to MA or DA, and always on holidays. SC does not fit that pattern, however. JB does not either.


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The Lighthouse
unregistered user
03-05-05, 03:02 AM (EST)
 
7. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #6
 
   Hi, Evening2,

No, they were headed, supposedly to, Brownsville, Texas, which, the bell of choice is SouthWestern Bell Telephone.

Mikie, I also made a connection with Susannah Chase. There was a stronger connection between her and Chris Wolf, apparently the morning of her murder.
The motive, I believe, was to make Chris Wolf look more guilty as he was already a suspect in the JonBenet murder. It would make sense to try to make him look guiltier.
The person who killed JonBenet had help this time in committing the murder. He had his girlfriend with him. I believed the same girl may have been involved in the Helgoth "Death" also (Feb 14?) and not only I, but even the Boulder Police believed a girl may have been involved, luring Susannah Chase. I knew it probably would have to be two, a guy and a girl (a guy from the brutality of it) involved in the killing.
Of course, no response from the Boulder Police department on my suggestion, but lo and behold, female DNA showed up on the bat that was used on Ms. Chase. How interesting.
I guess, they were hoping it was Patsy's. They were close, just not Patsy Ramsey.

By the way, I was looking for that DNA information. I had a guess that it would be useless (planted). Could you give me more info on that and I'll tell you who 's DNA I think it could be, at least it would be an interesting angle.

Your Friend,
The Lighthouse


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TrollSpotter
unregistered user
03-05-05, 11:30 AM (EST)
 
8. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #7
 
   Lighthouse,
You are such a card! This theory is really rich! Three phone losers living many states away randomly opt to hang out in Boulder on the way to Brownsville, get wrapped up in a kidnapping gone awry and so the perp returns (travelling hundreds if not thousands of miles in the process), not once, but TWICE to polish off two other individuals in an effort to mislead the authorities, while at the same time the 3 of them are running around blatantly disrupting BNF and calling attention to themselves on the Internet? Does this theory really hang together for you?

Come clean with us: you don't really believe this theory. Surely you must instead be writing a book or film script about the bizarre world of Internet postings about a case now nearly a decade old and you're just trying to elicit real-life filler from reactions to your comments here, right? Please tell me you don't really believe this ludicrous theory or if you do, please don't feel insulted that we're all feeling silently relieved that DA/BPD didn't squander taxpayer resources trying to investigate it.
Your good friend,
TrollSpotter


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W*
unregistered user
03-06-05, 02:34 PM (EST)
 
9. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #8
 
   SBCT

San Benito Texas, Cameron (County)

Same; boys. texas. crime

???


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W*
unregistered user
03-06-05, 02:34 PM (EST)
 
10. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #9
 
   SBTC

oh well


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flyingballoons
unregistered user
03-06-05, 03:15 PM (EST)
 
11. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #10
 
  
The PLA did it theory is way out there.:+


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Evening2
unregistered user
03-06-05, 03:30 PM (EST)
 
12. "RE: Brownsville, TX"
In response to message #11
 
   Let's see, Lighthouse,,,why Brownsville? A border town,,,lots of drugs, for sure,,,entrance to Padre Island,,,what else?


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The Lighthouse
unregistered user
03-07-05, 05:16 AM (EST)
 
15. "RE: Brownsville, TX"
In response to message #12
 
   Hi Evening2,

They were supposedly holding a phone-hacker convention in Brownsville, which, by the way, is near Mexico. They even called it the Cuervocon. I thought it interesting given the 118,000.00-conversion-to-mexican-pesos-theory.

Later, since they didn't make it for obvious reasons, they tried to say that it was a gag. However, they've held their cuervocon almost every year after that.

To demonstrate phone hacking techniques they have to know the regional Bell of choice ...SouthWestern Bell telephone company. He had it on the brain when he wrote the ransom note.

I hope this clears things a little.

Your Friend,
The Lighthouse


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The Lighthouse
unregistered user
03-07-05, 04:56 AM (EST)
 
13. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #8
 
   Trollspotter,
Let me help you. A lot of sexual assaults are opportunities. There are plenty of examples of predators who are not from the victim's neck of the woods. Take a gander at Tears of Rage(?) by John Walsh.
It is more common than you think.
So, if that's all you have, you're pretty much finished.

You're glad that the police haven't wasted tax payer money on my leads? I would imagine, if you had any children and in the position of the Ramseys, you would want every lead checked. Now that you have nothing to argue about, do you still feel that way? Yes, I know you do. You don't want the police to follow my leads, obviously, for other reasons.

That writer friend of mine I referred to...
He was pretty stupid, too.

Do you know that he told me a story about how his son got into a music conservatory by practicing so much, he was skipping school classes to practice. This was probably in response to my identifying myself as a classical musician.

He was trying to find a way to connect with me, however, I didn't believe his story. You see, he probably did know someone who got into a conservatory that way. Some do. However, no parent in the world would have allowed their child to cut class, and even if he found out afterwards while the child was doing this, the parent would never condone it.
Even though I didn't trust him, I then continued communicating with him, carefully giving him information, enough to concern him if he was involved. The whole time, I was getting information from him.

The same information you are expousing.

He really thought I wasn't on to his game. The whole time!

Just stupid.

He would also be happy if Law Enforcemnt didn't follow my leads. Unfortunately, they will. It'll be over within the year.

Oh, by the way, one of them does live in Colorado.

So, to recap, you didn't contest my points, because you can't, and the only thing that you had, didn't work out, not only because you don't know what you're talking about, but, the killer DOES live in the state.

So, one more thing. Anybody who doesn't think any lead should be checked when it comes to a girl's murder is...well...

how about this: If you want to be a real Trollspotter, maybe you should try the mirror.

Your Friend (sincerely),
The Lighthouse


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The Lighthouse
unregistered user
03-07-05, 05:10 AM (EST)
 
14. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #13
 
   W,
Your initials didn't really work out, did they? You have an extra "C" or why would he have dotted them, like a company's name would be in initials.

Try to make some sense the next time.

Also, you don't read very well.

When I came up with the initials, arriving at them through DERIVING THEM FROM THE RANSOM NOTE, which is better than pulling out some weak stuff (like yours) from the air, I said that it was a reach.

However, the ransom note beared this out. It supported the idea totally. It doesn't bear out your not-even-an-attempt-to-really-try-to-figure-it-out suggestion.

Get it?

Flying balloons, not to burst your bubble, but I didn't say the PLA did it, first of all. Why, it's not even a group.

Maybe you should stop sucking helium and explain WHAT you are talking about. You can't if you don't understand what was written.

Don't comment if you don't understand.

You're the one way out there. Also, the next time you say the theory is way out there, it would help if you had a POINT. It makes postings so much more interesting.

If you figure out what you are trying to say, let me know what it is that you have a problem with. However, I don't think you know what it is. You'll have to think about it first.

Your Friend,
The Lighthouse.


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TrollSpotter
unregistered user
03-08-05, 11:43 PM (EST)
 
16. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #13
 
   >Trollspotter,
>Let me help you. A lot of sexual assaults are opportunities.
>There are plenty of examples of predators who are not from
>the victim's neck of the woods. Take a gander at Tears of
>Rage(?) by John Walsh.
>It is more common than you think.
>So, if that's all you have, you're pretty much finished.

Lighthouse, I too subscribe to an intruder theory, so I'm in no way denying the plausibility of an opportunistic attack. The issue is whether YOU have identified THE perps out of the sizable number that could have done it (the number is sizable indeed if, as your theory requires, we open the possibility to it being committed by someone just traveling through Boulder. I remain unconvinced by your evidence, probably for the same reason LE remains unconvinced (and they, unlike me, presumably have been given a chance to see all of it). If you had CONVINCING evidence, LE would be following your leads and you wouldn't be here stirring things up.

>
>You're glad that the police haven't wasted tax payer money
>on my leads? I would imagine, if you had any children and in
>the position of the Ramseys, you would want every lead
>checked. Now that you have nothing to argue about, do you
>still feel that way? Yes, I know you do. You don't want the
>police to follow my leads, obviously, for other reasons.

In the context of limited resources (last time I checked, even Boulder had limited LE resources), I would want LE to put its efforts into the most cost-effective approaches to finding the killer, i.e., those most likely to pay off. If I squander my resources on low yield activities such as tracking down psychic leads I run the risk of not having enough resources to properly pursue the leads that are most likely to lead to the killer, resulting in a perp that got away. I don't want the perp(s) to get away, do you?

>
>That writer friend of mine I referred to...
>He was pretty stupid, too.
>
>Do you know that he told me a story about how his son got
>into a music conservatory by practicing so much, he was
>skipping school classes to practice. This was probably in
>response to my identifying myself as a classical musician.
>
>He was trying to find a way to connect with me, however, I
>didn't believe his story. You see, he probably did know
>someone who got into a conservatory that way. Some do.
>However, no parent in the world would have allowed their
>child to cut class, and even if he found out afterwards
>while the child was doing this, the parent would never
>condone it.
>Even though I didn't trust him, I then continued
>communicating with him, carefully giving him information,
>enough to concern him if he was involved. The whole time, I
>was getting information from him.
>
>The same information you are expousing.
>
>He really thought I wasn't on to his game. The whole time!
>
>Just stupid.
>
>He would also be happy if Law Enforcemnt didn't follow my
>leads. Unfortunately, they will. It'll be over within the
>year.

Thanks for this prediction: it's amazing that LE have had your evidence for 3 years, done nothing with it, yet NOW you're SURE they will wrap up this case in a year. Can we have your promise that if this prediction doesn't come true you'll quit posting your nonsense on any JBR boards forever?
>
>Oh, by the way, one of them does live in Colorado.

Unless your theory is changed, the PLA member still living in CO had nothing to do with the murder: you claim it was a threesome. Now are you changing it to a foursome. Sure the "chief" may well have been at Cuervocon, but he wasn't in Boulder at Xmas 1996--at least not in the theory you were trotting about 3 years ago.
>
>So, to recap, you didn't contest my points, because you
>can't, and the only thing that you had, didn't work out, not
>only because you don't know what you're talking about, but,
>the killer DOES live in the state.

Last time I checked, CA wasn't CO.

>
>So, one more thing. Anybody who doesn't think any lead
>should be checked when it comes to a girl's murder
>is...well...

Every highly publicized murder results in a tsunami of leads
from all sorts of cranks and crackpots. Your belief that each of these should be pursued betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how intelligent police work should be conducted. My advice to you is to not quit your day job: I don't think this sleuthing line of work is going to pan out for you.

>
>how about this: If you want to be a real Trollspotter, maybe
>you should try the mirror.
>
>Your Friend (sincerely),
>The Lighthouse

You are (sincerely) one weird guy.


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little reader
unregistered user
03-09-05, 00:41 AM (EST)
 
17. "troll to house post"
In response to message #16
 
   nice post.

but, logic doesn't prevail here.


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TrollSpotter
unregistered user
03-10-05, 07:47 AM (EST)
 
18. "RE: troll to house post"
In response to message #17
 
   >nice post.
>
>but, logic doesn't prevail here.
Dave and Margoo seem pretty logical to me. But I concur that it's
often sorely lacking in forums such as this.


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