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Subject: "Companion to Lee book 3" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences Ramsey Discussion 1 Topic #390
Reading Topic #390
jamesonadmin
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09-01-04, 09:31 PM (EST)
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"Companion to Lee book 3"
 
   Page 161. Henry Lee says that the coroner, Dr. Meyer, brought a friend - Dr. Sirotnak - tot he morgue to examine JonBenét's body and they agreed "... there had been an injury to her vagina."

It is true - there was an injury there. The killer sexually assaulted his little victim.

Lee is not clear about that - but he could have been. There was NO evidence of prior sexual abuse. Lee knows that but doesn't sharethat information.

This BORG book is just not right.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
Companion to Lee book 3 [View All] jamesonadmin 09-01-04 TOP
  RE: Companion to Lee book 3 jamesonadmin 09-01-04 1
     page 163 jamesonadmin 09-01-04 2
         RE: page 163 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 3
             165 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 4
                 AARGHHH! jamesonadmin 09-02-04 5
                     page 166 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 6
  RE: Companion to Lee book 3 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 7
     RE: Companion to Lee book 3 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 8
         page 169 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 9
             RE: page 169 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 10
                 Page 172-173 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 11
                     Page 173 jamesonadmin 09-02-04 12
                         Page 175 jamesonadmin 09-03-04 13
                             Pg. 176 jamesonadmin 09-03-04 14
                                 Page 177 jamesonadmin 09-03-04 15
                                     tape jamesonadmin 09-03-04 16

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jamesonadmin
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09-01-04, 09:33 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Companion to Lee book 3"
In response to message #0
 
   Page 162 deals with the attempt to "ransom the body" - to force the Ramseys to face interrogation before burying their daughter. The details may be right - but I won't vouch for them as I simply don't know.


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jamesonadmin
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09-01-04, 09:41 PM (EST)
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2. "page 163"
In response to message #1
 
   Page 163 - Lee talks about Patsy giving handwriting samples - says Patsy was asked to reproduce the text of the ransom note but "wasn't able to comply."

Perhaps she couldn't write those words without breaking down - I find that absolutely understandable - but she did give samples of her handwriting - - I have copies of those files. The writing is there - and it does not match the ransom note.

Lee describes the activities in Georgia that Christmas Day - he clears John Andrew and Melinda - and rightfully so though I don't know if his details are correct.

It is difficult continuing with this - - the book is so bad - not a single thing new, just BORG posturing....

But people need to read this to see just how bad the chapter is - - and if he is this bad on Ramsey, do you think he is better on the other cases?

Any respect I had for the man left long ago. If he isn't going to let the evidence lead the path - - and he doesn't in Ramsey - - he should shut up.


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jamesonadmin
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3. "RE: page 163"
In response to message #2
 
   Page 165

Henry Lee says that there were two suspects at the memorial service held in Boulder on December 29th. He names Linda Hoffmann and Bill McReynolds - - his fake names don't hide who he is discussing - one is the housekeeper and the other is the Santa.

He describes Linda going up to Patsy and asking her about the exterior door locks. Not only do I find that strange under the circumstances but I wonder if the police or media had suggested that to Linda. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me. The police were looking for answers and I think they were willing to use any means.

They wouldn't have TOLD Linda to ask - that would have been illegal. But they might have suggested she could help clear up some things if she could share more in a later interview.

Lee correctly states that THAT was the last time Linda Hoffmann saw or spoke to the Ramseys. I am not surprised by that. Linda was not a family friend, never was. She was hired help - - treated well, but hired help nonetheless.... and after the murder she wasn't even that.

Linda defended the Ramseys in the early days - - but when they dropped her, she jumped the fence big time. I am not defending the Ramseys in that situation, one day maybe I will explain more, but will point to Linda and say she was morally bankrupt when she allowed herself to be bought (yeah, I believe she changed her mind for money, nothing less.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

next post on Santa


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jamesonadmin
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09-02-04, 09:46 AM (EST)
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4. "165"
In response to message #3
 
   How could Henry Lee be so wrong on Santa Bill McReynolds?

He correctly identified Bill as the Santa at the party on the 23rd and correctly states that he COULD be the one who told JonBenét Santa would be visiting her after Christmas day - - a special visit.

Then Lee goes off into this crap - - "...had worked for the Ramseys often enough that they's given him a key to their home."

Now I know the Ramseys said they used Bill for several Christmas parties - - but I have the tapes of the interviews and have listened to them repeatedly - including parts that focus on Bill McReynolds, other parts that focus on keys. NOWHERE do they say they gave Santa a key.

I don't know why Lee says he had a key. I believe he is wrong.

One thought I would share: If Santa told the cops he had a key, wouldn't they would have questioned the Ramseys about that? If he did have a key at some point - - - well, I have made no secret that I think Santa was innocent but wanted his friends and sons investigated. If he had a key at any point for any reason, I would hope the invesigators would jump on that.


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jamesonadmin
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5. "AARGHHH!"
In response to message #4
 
   Page 166

Lee writes, and I quote, "... the coroner had found five partially digested pineapple chunks in JonBenét's stomach."


Let me share what the coroner actually wrote in the autopsy.

G.I. Tract: The esophagus is empty. It is lined by gray-white mucosa. The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified. The gastric mucosa is autolyzed but contains no areas of hemorrhage or ulceration. The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple. No hemorrhage is identified. The remainder of the small intestine is unremarkable. The large intestine contains soft green fecal material.

There were no chunks of anything in the stomach.

Something was in the beginning of the intestine - the odor likely suggested pineapple but one of the witnesses knew there was pineapple found on the table and that might also have been the reason the coroner mentioned pineapple in his report.

Later examination of that material did identify it as pineapple - - but it was not in her stomach.

That is important because if it HAD been in her stomach as Lee describes, she would have had to have eaten it shortly before her death.

Lee has access to the autopsy - same as we do. He chose to publish misinformation. Why? I think because he is interested in making a case against the parents DESPITE what the evidence actually says.

I used to think Henry Lee was a honourable person. Watching his "work" in Ramsey, well, I think he is just another man looking out to make a buck off this case. I don't think he is at all interested in real justice here - - if he was he wouldn't be publishing this garbage.


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jamesonadmin
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09-02-04, 11:01 AM (EST)
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6. "page 166"
In response to message #5
 
   Lee is discussing the time between the Boulder memorial service and the funeral in Atlanta. What he says is very interesting - I believe it is the truth but wish we could verify it through some deposition. Again, I need to point out that Fleet White has asked that his deposition be sealed - - not parts of it but all of it. So I believe Lee has this right - but wish Fleet White would come out and tell his story.

Lee writes that Detective Linda Arndt interviewed Fleet White and Fleet "... was convinced that someone with some kind of grudge against the Ramsey family had broken into their home and killed JonBenét. (White) even suggested that the parent of one of JonBenét's pageant competitors might have struck back at the little girl for some perceived wrong."

More coming on Fleet - I am trying not to jump ahead but it is coming...


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jamesonadmin
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09-02-04, 11:12 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Companion to Lee book 3"
In response to message #0
 
   The Arndt discussion - - Lee says that no one can clarify the events surrounding Arndt's FAX to the Ramseys - the list of questions.

I have to agree with him and respectfully decline to enter that discussion. Linda Arndt deserves her own thread - we have had them in the past and they can be found.... she was not supported by her fellow officers, she made crucial mistakes early on and she appears to some (myself included) to have been overwhelmed by a situation she was not prepared for. Her interview indicates - to me - some kind of breakdown and I question her interpretations but do wish we knew the simple facts she still holds secret.


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jamesonadmin
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09-02-04, 11:18 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Companion to Lee book 3"
In response to message #7
 
   Note - much of this book is rehashing Schiller's book. While Schiller's book was the first and best as far as actual facts (he had access to Steve Thomas and Linda Hoffmann-Pugh as well as a few others close to the case) he also was lacking a lot. He never met the Ramseys and the Ramsey friends refused to talk to him. Schiller had some important things wrong - and Lee seems comfortable with the book.

That's how I see things as I read this book. Just wanted to make that point.


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jamesonadmin
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9. "page 169"
In response to message #8
 
   page 169
On page 169, Lee talks about the disagreement between John Ramsey and Fleet White that took place in Atlanta.

Fleet White has never publicly discussed this disagreement. I would imagine he was asked about it in depositions and interviews but they have not been released. As far as I know, Fleet White did NOT meet with Larry Schiller OR Henry Lee - - I believe Lee is depending on Schiller's book for his info - - and I can say that none of it matches what is in the documents we have available to us or what I was told by John and Patsy Ramsey themselves.

If Lee is ever in a position to respond to these threads, I would like to ask him about this section - - - why did he not point out that Schiller's rendition of the story did not match the statements of John and Patsy Ramsey.

The disagreement was not a "bitter and loud argument". It was certainly serious but not as described by Lee.

I won't go into too much detail but will note that Lee says Fleet White "...had gotten wind of the Ramseys calling ...CNN..." and was upset over that.

Well, from what I understand it was Fleet White who proposed they go public, to let people see who they were - - he was convinced that when people saw the Ramseys they would understand how innocent they were.

Yes, he did get upset later - and I wish we had all the details so we could understand why - but it was not as Lee described.


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jamesonadmin
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10. "RE: page 169"
In response to message #9
 
   170-172 goes into the CNN interview. Lee tries to make an issue about the Ramseys giving an interview to Cabell - " a relative stranger to the case" - when they were not sitting with the police.

I wonder who he thinks they SHOULD have been talking to if not Cabell. They were being encouraged to go public - to ask for information that might locate the killer and to present themselves so the public might see them as real people - people incapable of doing this crime.

They called on CNN. CNN sent Cabell.

Lee says the Ramseys were not sitting with the cops at that time - but he fails to post the transcript of the interview - - in it the Ramseys say they will be returning to Boulder to help the police.... they were not refusing contact or shutting doors.

But the BORG (pronounce that "lynch mob") Lee is presenting HIS theory here - leaving out the truth seems a comfortable choice for him.


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jamesonadmin
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11. "Page 172-173"
In response to message #10
 
   Reading the book IS rather interesting - - when he uses a pseudonym and I have to think - - who is he talking about? How long does it take before I can pull the name out of my memory? Not long....

Pages 172-173 deal with Jeff Merrick who is being called Todd Ogilvy.

Lee reports that John's executive secretary first brought Merrick's name to the attention of the BPD. I am not sure about that. I was under the belief that John had mentioned Merrick as someone at work who had been unhappy at how his career went, someone who might have blamed Ramsey.

This is a short note I found on Merrick in my files - - you may find it interesting.

Merrick, Jeff - former friend of John Ramsey - said he had been out with John and Patsy in the past and that JR was not physically demonstrative. He had been fired from AG in April, 1996 and was very upset, made threats. He was brought in for questioning and the police indicated he may be a suspect due to his name being mentioned by John Ramsey. Merrick was very upset by that. Merrick and his wife, Kathy, spent the day in Aurora at her brother-in-law's house (Dick and Diane Foote), and Christmas night at their home in Louisville.
In November of 2000, in a chat with about.com, Steve Thomas revealed that Merrick was writing a book and looking for a publisher.


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jamesonadmin
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12. "Page 173"
In response to message #11
 
   Lee talks about the neighbors - says the BPD went door to door looking for information, clues.

They did speak to some neighbors, not all, not even enough - but they did knock on doors.

He doesn't use names, I will.

The neighbor who saw a light int he kitchen was Scott Gibbons - he was the neighbor to the north of the Ramsey house. On 12/26/97 he told police he had seen strange lights in the Ramsey home shortly after midnight on Christmas night - Globe and Hard Copy carried the story in mid-November 1997.

note - After visiting the house, I felt that the killer had likely closed the shutters in the kitchen - there were no dimmer switches in the kitchen and that would account for the "different" lights - and would have provided the killer with privacy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lee says a neighbor watching late night TV didn't notice anything strange... that should have been the "neighbors" - - two boys who lived next door to the south. They were younger boys, boys who played with Burke at times.

I have personally been to that house, stood against that house, the window, and looked over to the Ramsey house. Trees blocked much of the view - the angle and the visual access..... I don't think they could have seen a lot even if they were paying attention. But it was two young boys and they were watching TV. Not noticing anything doesn't mean nothing was happening.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It was Dianne Brumfitt who told the police a light that was usually on was off. Lee doesn't include this but the Ramseys didn't put a lot of importance on that. They said they always left lights on when they went to bed - - no lights in particular, they just left lights burning. So was it important? I don't know. I know no one ever said any bulb was unscrewed or broken.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The woman who heard the scream was - - and we all know this name - Melody Stanton. She said - and Lee reported - that she believed the scream must have been heard by the parents. What Lee chose not to report is that acoustic tests proved that a scream from the basement COULD be heard in the street - but not in the third floor bedroom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lee says "another neighbor" but he is talking again about Scott Gibbons..... I wonder if he knew or had no clue....

this time he spoke of how Gibbons saw the door to the butler's pantry open at 8 am. Did the killer leave it open? Lee kind of pooh-poohs the importance of that open door - - says anyone could have left it open.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Lee mentions the Barnhills, not by name. Says they and their unnamed boarder (Glenn Meyers) were suspects early on but apparently removed from the suspect list after handwriting comparisons and polygraphs.


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jamesonadmin
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13. "Page 175"
In response to message #12
 
   Page 175

Interesting - try to reason this one....

Fleet White defended the Ramseys in an interview with the police - - there is no public record of what the police said to him. (Yes, I would love to see that interview transcript made public.)

Then Fleet White went to Atlanta. John Ramsey says Fleet and Priscilla promoted an appearance on CNN - but Fleet is reportedly upset that the Ramseys were talking to CNN and not going in to be interrogated by the police.

During that CNN interview, John and Patsy Ramsey say that they will be returning to Boulder to help in the investigation - but the media holds to the myth that Fleet White believed the Ramseys were closing those doors.

Personally, I think the police had suggested to Fleet White that the Ramseys might be guilty - that it could have been an accident after all - that he (Fleet) might be able to help them force the Ramseys to confess. Furthermore, I believe the police suggested to Fleet that if the Ramseys really were guilty and fighting to protect their own freedom, they could make Fleet White a serious suspect.

I personally feel Fleet was upset and confused - - and far too trusting of the police.

So on page 175 of Lee's book, Lee says that the disagreement between John and Fleet in Atlanta was the beginning of the end of the friendship (true enough) and that Fleet White....

Well, quoting Lee -

"The rift between Ramsey and him had become irreparable. Looking back at the chaotic events of a week earlier, (Fleet) now was wondering why he, on December 26th, had not been able to find JonBenét's body in the wine cellar when he'd conducted at midmorning his sole search of the basement. He had actually opened the door to the darkened,windowless room where the little body lay, yet had not spotted the white blanket."

OK - a few things.

First, it was NOT his "sole" search. He did go to the basement by himself alone early on and failed to find the body. he went again with John when the body was found - - and he went down there a THIRD time after the body was found. It was on the third visit that he handled the duct tape.


More to think about. Fleet had not turned on the light in the room during the early morning visit to that room. Being very tall and blocking any light coming from the hall behind him, he didn't see the blanket or body. If that seemed reasonable to him right after the body was found - - if that made sense to him up to the time of the funeral - - why would he suddenly have second thoughts on the subject? I attribute that to him being "spoken to" (aka confused and frightened) by the BPD.

This is my opinion - - feel free to disagree and discuss. Just start another thread for it, please.


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jamesonadmin
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14. "Pg. 176"
In response to message #13
 
   Page 176

The Ramseys had returned to Boulder by January 4th and for the third time Patsy was meeting with LE to give handwriting samples.

It amazes me how the BORG can spin this.

The fact is that "for the third time Patsy was meeting with LE to give handwriting samples." She had given them samples on the day the body was found and again the next day - - those were considered questionable because Patsy had been so medicated. So she was asked to give a third sample and agreed.

I see that as cooperation.

The BORG points out that the sample was not given at the Justice Center - like that negates the fact as written above.

Just amazing.

Lee doesn't say the Ramseys didn't cooperate but he makes it a point to note that the samples were given at the home of Pete Hofstrom.


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jamesonadmin
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15. "Page 177"
In response to message #14
 
   Page 177

Confusing statements - - why?

Sometimes I wonder why the BORG picks certain details to focus on.

For example, in describing the Ramsey house, Lee writes, "The home contained certain tables Patsy claimed to acquaintances had been purchased at Tiffany's in New York, an elite store known for jewelry that does not sell furniture."

I read that and wonder if Lee is calling Patsy a liar, and why.

Perhaps the acquaintance is mistaken about the store Patsy named.

Perhaps Tiffany's was selling off some furniture they had used for displays and Patsy bought one.

I don't know the answer to the mystery - - but the unsourced story really doesn't seem important enough to repeat - - except by BORG.

Why?


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jamesonadmin
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16. "tape"
In response to message #15
 
   Page 178

Lee mentions that there was black duct tape found on the back of two paintings found in the Ramsey house. He correctly reports that the tape was put on the paintings in 1993 by a local frame shop.

What he does NOT say is that the tape did NOT match the black duct tape found on JonBenét's body.

Why wouldn't Lee report that the tape on the body was manufactured in 1996 - just weeks before the murder?

The tape was manufactured at theShurtape factory in Hickory, NC. To date, no one has ever approached the employees of that factory and asked them if they had any idea who might have taken a roll of tape from the factory around that time, someone who might have traveled to Colorado.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lee says "Burke's bedroom was on the same floor, though separated from JonBenét's room by an adjoining playroom."

Again he misrepresents a situation.

If you left Burke's room to go to JonBenét's room, you would NOT go from his room to a playroom and then into JonBenét's room.

You would leave Burke's room and pass into a hallway, pass a bathroom on the right and a bedroom on the left. From there you would go into a playroom. Passing through the playroom, and not in a straight line, you would pass out of the original house and into the addition - - enter a hall and take a right. Leaving the hall you would take a left and that would take you into the laundry area, an open space at the top of the spiral staircase. Once in that open space, you would take a left to pass through the doorway into JonBenét's room.

Lee's description may lead (or mislead) readers to believe Burke could hear what was going on in JonBenét's bedroom. That simply is untrue.


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