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Maikai
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04-23-05, 10:48 AM (EST)
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"Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
 
   The Court TV show spent a lot of time on him, including showing videos of him romping with a small child (looked innocent to me)....interviews with Kenady...and the suicide photos.

There must be more that the investigators aren't making public, as far as what linked Helgoth to the Ramseys. What is the link?

What was shown is incriminating enough:

*location of stun gun and hi-tec boots (at the time of his death, was either made public?)
*indications that it wasn't a suicide.
*Hunter's statement on closing in on the perp--a statement the FBI prepared to be read---did it work? Did Michael start flipping out and have a confrontation with an "associate?"
*the creepy stalking he was involved in, with possibly entering homes for kicks?
*the debris on the boots that matched the material on the floor in the wine celllar (?)

What about the animal hairs? Were they wolfhound? Did Michael rent a cabin in November in the mountains? How many "associates" did he have? If he was involved, did he write the note? Could the rope have come from the junkyard? What about the cord Shapiro found in the tree? The tree with the treehouse, that had views of JBR's room? And the barbie dolls found on the lawn?

At the time of his death, there had been a breakup with a girlfriend, and he was going to lose the only job he's ever known with the sale of the junkyard to the city, not to mention losing the home he was living in.

Where is his family in all of this? From all accounts, they seem like decent people. His uncle had some type of guradianship over him...a sister was dying of cancer....his grandparents lived in Boulder, and had been there for years. I remember masked man interviewed some of his relatives years ago, and came to the conclusion Michael wasn't involved (based on what?)

There just seems to be too much there for resources not to be thrown on the case investigating Helgoth. The city has spent too much money to let it languish now.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  Kimberly's obit Maikai 04-23-05 1
     Michael's Obit Maikai 04-23-05 2
         Sale of Valmont Auto Maikai 04-23-05 3
             Helgoth Dave 04-23-05 4
                 RE: Helgoth Ashley 04-23-05 5
                     Helgoth con? Maikai 04-23-05 6
                         RE: Helgoth con? DonBradley 04-23-05 7
                             RE: Helgoth con? Ashley 04-23-05 8
                                 RE No person of interest Candy 04-23-05 9
                                     How does the family Maikai 04-24-05 10
                         RE: Helgoth con? Dave 04-24-05 11
                             Kenady's past.... Maikai 04-24-05 12
                                 RE: Kenady's past.... one_eyed_Jack 04-24-05 13
  RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest DonBradley 04-24-05 14
     RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest jamesonadmin 04-24-05 15
     RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest Dave 04-24-05 16
         RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest DonBradley 04-25-05 17
             RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest Dave 04-25-05 18
                 RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest DonBradley 04-25-05 19
                     RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest Ashley 04-25-05 20
                     RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest Dave 04-25-05 21
                         RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest jamesonadmin 07-21-06 22
                             RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest Dave 07-21-06 23
                                 RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest Evening2 07-22-06 24
                 RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest K 08-25-08 25
                     RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest DonBradley 08-26-08 26
                         RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest K 08-26-08 27

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Maikai
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04-23-05, 10:52 AM (EST)
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1. "Kimberly's obit"
In response to message #0
 
   Kimberly Dawn Helgoth Knote

Nov. 28, 1976 - Oct. 8, 1998

Kimberly Dawn Helgoth Knote of Longmont died of natural causes Thursday, Oct. 8, 1998, in Boulder Community Hospital. She was 21.


She was born Nov. 28, 1976, in Boulder, to Russell Helgoth and Connie Nye Helgoth.
She was a lifelong resident of Boulder County.

Ms. Knote was a customer service representative at Titan Auto Insurance.

She was a member of the Sacred Heart of Jesus Catholic Church in Boulder and the Elks Ladies Bowling League, and she was active in the American Cancer Society's "Relay for Life." She also was active in sports, including bowling, water-skiing and softball.

Survivors include her father of Boulder; her mother of Alliance, Neb.; her stepfather, Bill Kinser of Alliance; her companion, Tracy Hoy of Longmont; a sister, Christine Beck of Longmont; a stepsister, Terri Kinser of Alliance; a brother, Bob Weber of Helena, Mont.; a stepbrother, Bill Kinser Jr. of Alliance; and her grandparents, Harold and Catherine Helgoth of Boulder.

She was preceded in death by her maternal grandparents and a brother, Michael Helgoth, in 1997.

Visitation will be from 4 to 8 p.m. Monday at Crist Mortuary, 34th Street and the Diagonal Highway, Boulder. A vigil service will be at 7 p.m. Monday in the mortuary chapel, with the Rev. Pat Frink of Sacred Heart of Jesus Catholic Church of Boulder officiating.

A memorial Mass will be at 7 p.m. Tuesday at Crist Mortuary Chapel. The Rev. David Allen will be the celebrant. Services will conclude at the Alliance Cemetery in Alliance.

Contributions may be made to Boulder Community Hospital for the Cancer Cure Center, P.O. Box 9019, Boulder, Colo. 80301-9019.


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Maikai
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04-23-05, 10:55 AM (EST)
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2. "Michael's Obit"
In response to message #1
 
   Michael Landon Helgoth

Michael Landon Helgoth of Boulder died Thursday, Feb. 14, 1997, at home. He was 26.

He was born July 9, 1970, in Boulder, the son of Rus sell G. Helgoth and Coni R. Nye Helgoth.

He worked for Valmont Auto Parts for 11 years, where he was a mechanic and performed other duties.

Mr. Helgoth graduated from Boulder High School in 1989 and joined the U.S. Army, serving 13 months.

He belonged to Nova Club, received several awards for drafting and enjoyed anything associated with automobiles and the automotive industry.

Survivors include his father of Boulder; his mother of Alliance, Neb.; paternal grandparents, Harold and Catherine Helgoth of Boulder; his maternal grandfather, Jack Nye of Alliance; his guardians, Doug and Rita Helgoth of Boulder; a brother, Robert Weber of Boulder, Mont.; and two sisters, Christine Helgoth and Kimberly Helgoth, both of Boulder.

Visitation for family and friends will be from 4 to 8 p.m. today at Crist Mortuary, 34th Street and the Diagonal Highway, Boulder. The family will be present from 6 to 8 p.m.

A funeral service will be held at 10 a.m. Tuesday at the mortuary chapel. The Rev. Care Pat Frink of Sacred Heart of Jesus Catholic Church will officiate. Services will conclude at the chapel.

Memorial contributions may be made to the American Cancer Society, Boulder County Unit Office, 1590 Broadway, Boulder 80302.


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Maikai
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04-23-05, 11:00 AM (EST)
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3. "Sale of Valmont Auto"
In response to message #2
 
   Note: The timeline for the cleanup of the business would have had it completed by December of l996. I don't know if they met the schedule, but the point is, in l996, Michael's relatives were preparing to sell the business--something that had been in the family for decades:

SEA OF WRECKED CARS COULD BECOME PARK
Tuesday, July 23, 1996
Section: MAIN
Edition: FIRST
Page: 1A
By LISA MARSHALL Camera Staff Writer

If the Boulder City Council decides to buy up to 101 acres along Valmont Road for a large community park, children will someday kick a soccer ball in what is now a sea of wrecked cars. Families will picnic in what once was a thriving poultry farm.

But finding a farm fresh egg or a part for an old Chevy in Boulder could be tricky.


"There are a lot of people who are going to be sad to see us go," said Dick Helgoth, 59, whose family has run Valmont Auto Parts - the last auto yard in town - for nearly four decades. Helgoth said Boulder County land regulations and neighborhood covenants that prohibit people from working on their cars at home have taken the profit out of running a junk yard. Despite the family's rich history on the land, they are eager to sell.
"It's a different business than it was back when Dad started it," he said. "Back then, if you carried Ford or Chevy parts, you had it all."

The Parks and Recreation Board on Monday recommended the city buy as much land as possible on the Valmont Corridor site for $13.5 million. The City Council will give final consideration to the site Aug. 6.

The city is negotiating details of cleaning up the area, but landowners have agreed to deliver the sites "'clean," said Wally Cameron, who handles real estate purchases for the city. He would not release the prices of individual parcels within the site.

The Helgoths expect it will take about five months to sell off the usable parts from some 2,000 cars, hire a wrecking company to crush the remaining auto skeletons and plow away debris, allowing for leftover petroleum to evaporate.

"Then we'll take it easy for a couple of years. We haven't had much time to vacation," said Doug Helgoth, 49, who has run the business with his brother, Dick, since 1961.

Next door, K.C. Schneider is preparing to tell tenants, who have stored large mechanical equipment in his outdoor storage area for five years, they'll have find another storage place.

"It's probably one of the last inexpensive storage areas around and a lot of the people that run their little businesses don't have any place to go," said Schneider, who grew up riding horses and picnicking on the 24-acre property that used to be a farm.

Even a few family dogs are buried out there, he said.

"It may not look like it now, but it's going to be a great park site," said Schneider, struck by the beauty of the Flatirons behind the field of rusty cars and trailers on his lot. "Everyone is taking a little less money to see it as a park because they are obviously people who have owned property here for decades and care about Boulder. I can't wait to take my kids on a picnic out there."

While thrilled with the prospect of seeing a park there, Schneider said he views the land deal as the end of an era, a reflection of Boulder's move toward being an economically exclusive community.

"Every town needs a junkyard," he said.

Across the street, where the Boulder Valley Poultry farm has doled out eggs for local groceries and individuals since 1960, Mildred Vaughan is less enthusiastic about selling her family's 22.5 acres to the city.

Vaughan, 78, is afraid she'll lose her connection with the people of Boulder if she can't sell them eggs anymore. "They are really down in the dumps about not being able to get their farm fresh eggs," she said.

But Vaughan said she will bite an offer to clean up and sell "only if the price is right."


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Dave
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04-23-05, 11:29 AM (EST)
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4. "Helgoth"
In response to message #3
 
   I'm still bothered by the fact that Helgoth's "suicide" occurred one week after the Ramseys announced a $100,000 reward, after which JK went to BPD trying to tie him to the crime. The fact that Helgoth's DNA does not match (assuming it's actually true) makes this even more suspicious. Furthermore, I haven't heard JK say anything that wasn't already in the papers.

I think that Helgoth's "friends" ought to be thoroughly checked out for the "suicide" as well as the Ramsey case. I would be working seriously on the possibility that the Helgoth case is nothing more than a con that failed.


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Ashley
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04-23-05, 12:49 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Helgoth"
In response to message #4
 
   THe BPD would not have known about Helgoth without Kenaday. What a coincidence that stun gun and boots were found.

It reeks of a set-up to me. I also had a hard time believing him when he said Helgoth was watching him in Ninja clothes and Kenady does nothing about it? He just found it "strange". It seems Kenady has tried really hard to interject himself into a world famous murder case. Maybe he murdered Helgoth for the money not knowing the cops had the killer's dna that EXCLUDE Helgoth.

If Helgoth was really involved he would have dumped those boots and stun guns. How come, since he can't be the killer, was there no other prints found in the basement? Why just one print...the killer's print would have to be there, not just Helgoth's.

I think Helgoth was weird and a pervert but I don't even think he knew the Ramsey's existed before her murder.


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Maikai
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04-23-05, 01:50 PM (EST)
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6. "Helgoth con?"
In response to message #5
 
   Hadn't thought about that. First impressions of Kenady, which could be wrong, don't raise any flags to me. He seems legit. If Ransom was being copied, Gary Sinese, ringleader of the kidnapping, ended up killing his associates, and then became the hero. One would think Kenady would have been checked out, including DNA.

Article from Kenady's arrest:

Suspect facing burglary charges

By Christopher Anderson
Camera Staff Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A Lafayette man charged with burglary and theft of a Boulder County home told sheriff's deputies he was investigating the unsolved 1996 JonBenét Ramsey homicide.

The suspect in the case is John Edward Kenady, 47, the same person who this summer handed over a pair of Hi-Tec boots to private investigators working for John and Patsy Ramsey.

Boulder police are testing the boots at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, but do not think they are related to the case.

The source of a partial Hi-Tec bootprint inside the couple's home is one of many unanswered questions in the investigation into the Dec. 1996 homicide of 6-year-old JonBenét Ramsey.

And while the boots Kenady gave investigators belonged to a former resident of the house he allegedly broke into, Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said Monday the boots are not among the items Kenady is accused of stealing.

Kenady was arrested in Longmont Oct. 10 in connection with breaking into a home in the 4900 block of Valmont Road in July.

He told sheriff's deputies that Boulder Police Detectives Cmdr. Joe Pelle gave him permission to enter the home in the name of investigating the Ramsey case. Pelle said he never gave Kenady permission to break into the home. Kenady also said he feared evidence would be lost because the house was supposed to be demolished.

Police suspect Kenady of kicking in a rear door to the home and taking with him three "drafting quality drawings," a $54,000 check and legal papers including a deed of trust.

Diamond jewelry, several watches and money in one bedroom were untouched, according to police reports.

The home is owned by the family of a deceased man the Ramseys' investigators have said may have been involved with the beating and strangulation death of their daughter.

The deceased man shot himself in the chest Feb. 14, 1997, the day after Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter held a national press conference in which he said the field of suspects had narrowed and vowed to bring the little girl's killer to justice.

The man also may have owned a stun gun, which the Ramseys' suspect may have been used in their daughter's death, according to public records.

The Ramseys remain under police suspicion in their daughter's death, but have repeatedly said they did not kill their daughter and that police should be looking for an intruder. They have moved from their 755 15th St. home and now reside in Atlanta.

Kenady, who was friends with the deceased man, said he suspected him of having some involvement in the killing, but did not say why, according to police reports.

The documents stolen from the home were found in Kenady's possession. The drawings belonged to the deceased man.

Officers at the Boulder Police Department and the Boulder County Sheriff's Office said Kenady may be mentally impaired from a car accident.

Kenady's attorney, Karin Dostal, said her client is mentally competent.

She said she would not comment on the case other than to say, "There are certain things that will come out later."

Kenady was charged Oct. 13 and is scheduled for a preliminary hearing Nov. 8, which will likely to be rescheduled.

Ollie Gray, an investigator for the Ramseys, said a family member gave Kenady the boots. Kenady gave Gray the boots through an attorney. Gray turned them over to police in August and answered police questions about them during an interview with the Ramseys in Atlanta at the end of August.

Contact Christopher Anderson at (303) 473-1355 or andersonc@thedailycamera.com.


October 25, 2000


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DonBradley
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04-23-05, 02:57 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Helgoth con?"
In response to message #6
 
   It seems he passed up money and other valuables and only stole items of interest to investigators. Dedicated purposeful action.


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Ashley
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04-23-05, 03:08 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Helgoth con?"
In response to message #7
 
   How were the drawings and 54,000.00 dollar check related to the Ramsey case?

Who shoots themselves in the chest when trying to kill himself and why the pillow?


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Candy
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04-23-05, 11:27 PM (EST)
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9. "RE No person of interest"
In response to message #8
 
   I've talked to his family, and they will take action if they possibly can against this smear.


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Maikai
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04-24-05, 02:28 AM (EST)
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10. "How does the family"
In response to message #9
 
   feel about the possibility that Michael was murdered? Court TV put on a pretty convincing case. Would they be cooperative in an investigation?


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Dave
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04-24-05, 11:42 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Helgoth con?"
In response to message #6
 
   JK could hardly be called "legit." Check out his record. Candy has posted it on CyberSleuths. (Thanks, Candy.) He's also filed numerous civil suits as well as had civil suits filed against him. Here's one that was dismissed with prejudice:

KENADY, JOHN E vs. SAN LAZARO PARK PROPERTIES LLC

01/28/1997 DWP Dismissed with Prejudice

This case was dismissed about 10 days before the Ramsey's announcement of the $100,000 reward. A week after that Helgoth was dead, and JK started calling BPD.

--------------------------------------
Here's one from 1995 for a judgement that would have netted him about $11,000:

KENADY, JOHN E VS EBBERT, WILLIAM H

--------------------------------------
Here's sexual assault on a child:

1 Main Charge 018003.00405.0 SEX ASSAULT ON A CHILD
Offense Date: From: 06/11/1979 To: 06/11/1979 Time: -- BAC: 0

--------------------------------------
Here's an interesting one. Note the judgement in 1992, payment in 1997. Apparently JK couldn't satisfy the judgement for five years, then could satisfy it in 1997. Apparently he ran into some cash in 1997.

ANGELL, JOSEPH M, et al vs. KENADY, JOHN

Judgments
ID Date Type Status Judge - Bar # Judge Name
1 04/29/1992 Judgment Entered Full Satisfaction 1268 MARSHA BAER YEAGER

Judg. Transaction Amount Date
PRINCIPAL $870.00 12/10/1997
ATTORNEY FEES $2,000.00 12/10/1997
PARTIAL SATISFACTION $1,870.00 12/10/1997
FULL SATISFACTION $0.00 12/10/1997


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Maikai
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04-24-05, 12:26 PM (EST)
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12. "Kenady's past...."
In response to message #11
 
   Oh brother.....another sideshow that will go nowhere? If what Kenady is saying is true, there should be others that can corraborate his charges...or refute them, and you'd think Court TV would have checked it out, before going public.


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one_eyed_Jack
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04-24-05, 12:36 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Kenady's past...."
In response to message #12
 
   >Oh brother.....another sideshow that will go nowhere? If
>what Kenady is saying is true, there should be others that
>can corraborate his charges...or refute them, and you'd
>think Court TV would have checked it out, before going
>public.

I'm glad to see a show that presents an intruder theory, but it doesn't appear to be well investigated. Kenady doesn't seem to know very much.


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DonBradley
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04-24-05, 07:19 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #0
 
   I would agree that the documentaries have often given the appearance of Kenady versus Helgoth without much supporting roles. That is the nature of a time-constrained documentary. You show the main positions and not the supporting players, particularly if they are all minor even if numerous.

Now its well known that Ollie Grey followed alot of the loser, low-life types around Boulder's residential neighborhoods at night. Yet all we really hear of is Kenady's vague statments of there were three of four people who would visit Helgoth who he considered to be equally violence prone.

Part of the problem is the time contraints and the marshalling of all those tiny tidbits into a coherent whole. Do I have every confidence that Helgoth's associates existed and were creeps who did in fact engage in nocturnal thrill seeking riding around residential areas planning intrusions into people's homes? Yes. Do I have the actual evidence to prove it? No.

We all heard about 'shooting cats' and killing kittens and shooting past his friends head by a bare margin. Some believed it, some probably did not. Would we have all liked more 'evidence' and less conclusionary statements made without supporting documentation? Sure. I just dont see Kenady as having much incentive to lie and I don't see this as some conspiracy to frame poor dead Helgoth for something.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
04-24-05, 08:59 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #14
 
   Candy - the family can't do anything - - they are telling the truth and that is legal.


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Dave
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04-24-05, 09:49 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #14
 
   Don,

I just dont see Kenady as having much incentive to lie...

He's already demonstrated that the reward is quite an incentive. If you merely glance at JK's record, you can see that in addition to other criminal charges, he has a history of things like repeatedly neglecting to buy auto insurance and failing to register his vehicle. People with records like his simply don't call the police unless there is something the police can do for them, nor do they involve the police in something that could possibly end in their being killed for ratting someone out. (Remember, Kenady is claiming a voilent accomplice exists.) Something had already gotten him past what I view as normal avoidance of the police on his part and his presumed fear of a violent accomplice. I say it's the reward and that it was a big incentive.

...and I don't see this as some conspiracy to frame poor dead Helgoth for something.

Technically one perpetrator wouldn't be a conspiracy.


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DonBradley
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04-25-05, 00:19 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #16
 
   The conspiracy that is supposed to exist includes Tracey and all those other so-called Ramsey Spin Team types.

I do think that the guy has very low income and therefore couldn't keep his car insured even if he wanted to. I would admit that you are probably correct in assuming he is not without a sure and certain knowledge that if those boots had tested as definitely having left that print, he would be on 'easy street' for the first time in his life.

I just don't think he is creative enough to come up with things that are inventions concerning Helgoth's behavior. Do I think he reacted a bit differently than he described to peering out the window and seeing a pair of eyes wearing Ninja garb? Yes. Is he smart enough to keep his mouth shut about the details? Yes. In general, I just don't think he has to lie about much of what happened.


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Dave
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04-25-05, 11:16 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #17
 
   Don,

The conspiracy that is supposed to exist includes Tracey and all those other so-called Ramsey Spin Team types.

Tracey et al. needn't be included. I can't help but wonder if their desire for evidence that points anywhere other than the Ramseys has caused them to buy a bill of goods from a long-time con man.


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DonBradley
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04-25-05, 11:42 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #18
 
   I don't want to say that the exact same Bill of Goods has been attested to by Ollie Gray but certainly the essential elements of it have been confirmed.

Was Tracey overzealous? Perhaps.
Is Kenady abit too anxious to sell his story? Perhaps.

Does it still show that there are viable leads that the BPD did not follow. Definitely.


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Ashley
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04-25-05, 12:15 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #19
 
   We know the police didn't follow viable leads because they had the killar's?

Mary thought it was Santa even though his dna tested and it's not his. Ollie and these other investigators have obviously spent too much time on Helgoth and come up way short. I don't know who Lou's favorite suspect is. The alley guy? Good suspect, but it's not him.

It's got to be a family friend or a neighbor. Test FW and his friends that were there that night. Retest Barnhill and his son. The Gardener, if it hasn't been done and, Glenn Meyers. IT'S GOT to be one of them.

Anyone else, imo, would not have written the note or left her in the home wrapped in a blanket. It wasn't a stranger. Someone that was around her or watching her. Barnhill has her dog. How do pedophiles get close to kids? Through pets, sometimes. He knew everything that was in the note. Maybe his son did too. He lied to the police about his whereabouts on THAT day. Have they tested his dna?

This is soooooooo frustrating to not know what they've actually done and not done.

Justice for JonBenet. That poor child deserves IT.


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Dave
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04-25-05, 03:44 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #19
 
   Don,

I don't want to say that the exact same Bill of Goods has been attested to by Ollie Gray but certainly the essential elements of it have been confirmed.

There isn't one shred of evidence that directly implicates either the Ramseys or Helgoth in the homicide. Some or all of the evidence that is suggestive that Helgoth was involved came from Kenady himself.

I would like to see independent confirmation of something --- anything --- that Kenady and other acquaintences of Helgoth have had to say. Until then, there's no case.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
07-21-06, 09:25 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #21
 
   bump - I am looking for a copy of the autopsy to post


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Dave
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07-21-06, 11:37 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #22
 
   In my opinion, it's Kenady who ought to be a "person of interest."


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Evening2
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07-22-06, 09:30 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #23
 
   >In my opinion, it's Kenady who ought to be a "person of
>interest."
>
I tend to agree, Dave. I remember how the name Kenady stood out (TO ME) after I read McReynolds' remark about all of the coincidences in the Kennedy/Kenady assasination. He also made the statement in his Letter to the Editor of 9-15-98 that said, "wake-up, good people, this little girl, JonBenet, did NOT commit suicide."

So, we have the heart in hand, the "suicide" of "Kennedy" who was shot in the heart on Valentine's day and it makes me go hmmm??


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K
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08-25-08, 07:53 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #18
 
   LAST EDITED ON 08-25-08 AT 09:25 PM (EST)
 
I can't help but
>wonder if their desire for evidence that points anywhere
>other than the Ramseys has caused them to buy a bill of
>goods from a long-time con man.


Obviously crimes that receive a lot of media attention (and offer rewards) are going to attract unscrupulous people wanting to make money; But I wonder if con-artists weren't involved from the very beginning. If Kenady is telling the truth, Helgoth and a partner were going to make some money around Christmas time. I can't help wondering if there is still an unidentified partner somewhere. Someone associated with Helgoth and Kenady (other than Gigax.) Years ago, an online poster wrote about a friend of Helgoth's who had been living with one of Michael's ex-girlfriends. I think he said they moved away around the time of the murder. I don't know if I'm remembering the facts right, but I'd like to know more about the friend and girlfriend.

I'd also like to know what kind of "drafting papers" Kenady stole from Helgoth's house and why. I believe they may have been blueprints of the Ramsey's house and they may have implicated someone Kenady was trying to protect. Also, I think anyone working for the architect (Tom Hand) who did renovations on the Ramsey house needs to be looked at more closely....especially techs and draftsmen. (Apparently Michael was also into drafting - maybe in highschool?) There's something suspicious about the drafting papers being stolen, in my opinion. They may have been blueprints of houses that were used for the purpose of home invasion and theft. I believe the Ramsey house may have been among the blueprints and was originally meant to be robbed. It's only my opinion, but I think the Helgoth connection needs to be more thoroughly investigated.


An interesting sidenote: Drafting is done on computers. AutoCad is the software that allows engineers and architects to do all their design work by computers. AutoCad was probably the single product most responsible, in terms of making John the business success he was. By his own account it was the "horse they rode for ten years." I'm curious to know if John had 'enemies' from back in the AutoCad days. - Someone who wouldn't have been able to ride this technology to the full extent or success that John did.

Edited to add: Anyone who regularly uses AutoCad (such as an engineer or architect/draftsman) might perceive himself (or his industry/occupation) as the reason John Ramsey is a success. AutoCad technology helped a lot of people in this field,,,,,,,I wonder if it hurt anyone.


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DonBradley
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08-26-08, 02:33 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #25
 
   >AutoCad technology helped a lot of people in this field,,,,,,,I wonder if it hurt anyone.

It most surely did!

When a drawing could be reproduced at the touch of a button, no draftsman had to be hired to repeatedly re-draw or make minor corrections to blueprints. Its just the sort of situation wherein a guy in high school who took Mechanical Drawing (back in the days when girls would have taken Home Economics) and excelled in it but went nowhere might indeed bear a grudge.

Consider how many pin-boys at the local bowling alley were put out of work by automatic bowling equipment? Now very few young men considered 'pin boy' as a career. Yet a draftsman would have been still churned out by the high schools and vocational techs (and perhaps by the reform schools) well after the need for them had passed.

Unfortunately, I don't see why any out of work draftsman would focus on Access Graphics as opposed to some other company. AG was a VAR, it bought Autocad and it bought high-end monitors and it bought alot of high-end unix boxes and put it all together as a tried and tested AutoCad package easily customized to particular customers.

Would a rawhide worker who wound a really tight buggy whip actually become all that angry at Ford Motor Company for having introduced the Model T that put so many buggy whip craftsmen out of work?



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K
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08-26-08, 03:26 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Michael Helgoth--person of interest"
In response to message #26
 
   Thanks DonBradley, that's interesting about the common draftsman being replaced. I understand what you're saying in the 2nd half of your post, but remember I'm thinking about someone who might be somewhat delusional in his preceptions. If a particular draftsman already had preconceived notions about people like John Ramsey, and then found out his company had something to do with AutoCad being widely distributed and used, it might add some fuel to the fire.


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