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jamesonadmin
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10-23-06, 05:08 PM (EST)
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"Posted on spider web"
 
   Oh What a Tangled Web
Tuesday, October 03, 2006
In response to what I wrote about the JonBenet Ramsey mystery and the apparent lack of footprints in the snow (which, I believe, neither proves or disproves anything), a reader wrote me with a question: What about the intact spider web on the window grate? Wouldn't it have been destroyed by an intruder moving the grate?

A JonBenet case enthusiast myself, I have, of course, investigated that question. Indeed, I have even consulted with my mother, an entomologist (spiders are not insects, but entomologists do study them) about this part of the mystery.

Spiders produce their webs by extruding a proteinaceous silk from their spinnerets. Depending on the spider in question, the silk it produces may be a "capture," adhesive-like silk or a gossamer, soft silk. The angle of the web (vertical or horizontal plane) can also indicate the type of spider.

My mother's first impression, without having seen pictures of the web, was that it could have been the work of a theridian (a kind of "house spider") that happened to spin its web in the relative warmth of the grate. These spiders can be found across the U.S., operate year round, and spin irregular webs. This kind of spider could have re-spun its broken web that fateful night.

Moreover, garden spiders of many varieties spin "orb" webs at night and trap their prey, allowing for any cavalier destruction of their constructions in the day. It is possible the web was produced after an intruder's entrance and egress.

Additionally, I looked to Rainer F. Foelix's Biology of Spiders (Harvard University Press, Cambridge, 1982). The author points out that "any araneids are strictly nocturnal.... Quite a few species have therefore been overlooked previously, since most spider watchers tend to be diurnal."

Brent Opell, Professor of Biology at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, however, claimed that "the web was that of the Agelenidae, known as a funnel-web spider. The web was reasonably intact and extending through the grating, suggesting that the grating had not been disturbed since the spider constructed its web. According to Prof. Opell, these types of spiders would cease constructing webs no later than early November, thus indicating that no one had entered that window well past this early November deadline." (from "The JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia").

According to the Climate Analysis Branch of NOAA, the normal high for Boulder, Colo., for December 25 is 45 and for December 26, 44. With temperatures in the 50s during this period of 1996, is it possible that such a spider could have indeed been active into December, over-wintering as an adult late that year?

Of course, like so many other parts of the sordid JonBenet mystery, the answer seems to behave like the horizon, somehow always in fuzzy view, ever elusive, with so many "it depends" muddling any clarity we think we find along the way.

Email Katrina Voss


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Posted on spider web Mame 10-23-06 1
  RE:The whole story Margoo 10-23-06 2
     RE:The whole story BraveHeart 10-23-06 3
         RE:The whole story BraveHeart 10-23-06 4
             RE:The whole story Mame 10-23-06 5
                 RE:The whole story BraveHeart 10-23-06 6
                     RE:The whole story Mame 10-23-06 7
                         RE:The whole story Rainsong 10-23-06 8
                             RE:The whole story one_eyed_Jackmoderator 10-23-06 9
                                 RE:The whole story BraveHeart 10-24-06 10
                                     RE:The whole story Mame 10-24-06 11
                                         RE:The whole story BraveHeart 10-24-06 12
                                             RE:The whole story Dave 10-24-06 13
                                             RE:The whole story Margoo 10-25-06 14
                                             RE:The whole story jamesonadmin 10-25-06 15
                                             RE:The whole story one_eyed_Jackmoderator 10-25-06 16
                                             RE:The whole story Evening2 10-25-06 17
                                             RE:The whole story BraveHeart 11-02-06 18
                                             RE:The whole story Mame 11-02-06 19
                                             RE:The whole story Rainsong 11-02-06 20
                                             RE:The whole story Dave 11-02-06 21
                                             RE:The whole story Mame 11-02-06 22
                                             RE:Part of the whole story BraveHeart 11-06-06 23
  Obvious guilt !! DonBradley 11-10-06 24

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Mame
Member since 8-20-06
10-23-06, 05:40 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Posted on spider web"
In response to message #0
 
   Very interesting.

I came across some great research posters did here about the temperatures and climate in Boulder at the time of the murder. One thing to note about Boulder, and anywhere that altitude is an issue...it can be very warm in Boulder, even in December. My kids (and most kids) wore shorts to school in January. My eldest son played golf on Christmas Day last year. This is not uncommon. AND, it is typically cold at night but the sun comes out and it's very warm and immediately melts the snow.

Altitude plays a big part in temperature and snow. A few hundred feet makes a difference. Actually the Ramsey's lived at a little higher altitude than downtown Boulder. So, they could have had a some more snow on the ground than a few blocks below them, or downtown. Especially in shady areas.


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Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
10-23-06, 06:10 PM (EST)
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2. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #0
 
   I don’t believe the spiderweb has EVER been a legitimate argument against entry through that window (and grate).

Mr. Bennett supports the argument that a web could have been respun that morning or afternoon.

There’s further disagreement on the following points:
1. According to Thomas, no photo was taken of the web, yet Schiller implies that Det. Everett had a photo of THE web in question, enlarged and enhanced, with him when he went to Vancouver Island to see the Spider Man, Dr. Robert Bennett
2. According to Det. Greg Idler, the strands between the window well and bricks were not attached, which contradicts the testimony of Det. Everett and Wickman

There is no indication what time of day it was when Det. Everett and Wickman allegedly saw the intact strands. It certainly WAS NOT at 6 A.M. No one was there during daylight hours until after the body was discovered – the earliest time in the afternoon being about 2 PM.

PMPT pb p 344

During their initial inspection of the exterior of the house on the day JonBenét’s body was found, detectives had noticed several strands of a spiderweb on the grate covering the window well in front of the broken basement window. It extended from the edge of the grate to some nearby rocks, and this seemed to confirm that nobody had entered through that window recently.

If the police could prove that the partial spiderweb found on the grate had been present before nightfall on December 25 and had not been disturbed during the night, they could rule out the possibility that somebody had used the broken window to enter the house. They also had to know whether it was possible for a partial web to be spun in the time between possible entry by an intruder on December 25 and discovery of the strands by police on December 26. If that was possible, they would have to consider that the window was a likely point of entry for an intruder.

On April 2, Detective Michael Everett of the Boulder PD called entomologist Dr. Brent Opell of the Virginia State University Department of Biology, who was known as Mr. Spider Man. Opell told the police that there are two general types of spiderwebs. The first, which are called cob or funnel webs, once established are constantly reworked and added to by the spider. The second, manufactured by orb-weaving spiders, is regularly replaced by the spiders and can be completed at any hour of the day, in less than twelve hours. The police also learned that if the grate covering the window well had simply been lifted and the web damaged, the type of web would be hard to identify, but if something the size of a man had passed through the web, it would have been destroyed. Everett sent Dr. Opell an enlarged photo of the type of web in question. The entomologist said it appeared to be of the funnel type.

Six months later, on October 25, Everett traveled to Vancouver Island and met with another expert, Dr. Robert Bennett of the British Columbia Ministry of Forests. The detective had with him a newly enlarged and enhanced photograph of a (sic) the strands of the web that had covered part of the window grate. Bennett confirmed that it was a funnel web.

Photographs of spiderwebs and spiders have been used as evidence in court cases. Different types of spiders build different types of webs. The varieties of design and the behaviours associated with web-building are well understood.

Spiders hibernate in the winter in terperate zones. Boulder is definitely a temperate zone. Therefore, during winter, there is markedly less or no activity at all by the spiders normally found in Boulder.

If a spiderweb is destroyed in winter, a spider will emerge it it’s warm enough. This often happens on a warm day, particularly if the spider is in a spot with southerly exposure. Indoors, spiders are active all winter. Heat of rising temperatures produce activity. Some species are active at very low temperatures, only slightly above freezing, while others need higher temperatures to become active.

In your situation – Boulder, winter snow falling, then melting away, then falling, the weather warm enough – the spider would definitely be out.

If a web is disturbed, a spider would drop out of the web on a silk dragline, wait, climb back up the dragline, and be back where he first started from.

Again in your case, a web was broken one night when someone came by. The temperature rose the next day, and that day or thereafter, a new web could have been spun. Let me tell you a true story about a spiderweb.

In the 1600s, Robert Bruce, one of Scotland’s national heroes, was injured and being pursued by the British. The Bruce crawled into a cave to hide. The next day the British came upon the cave, saw a spiderweb across its mouth, and figured that nobody was there. In fact, a spider had spun the web overnight. Robert the Bruce lived to fight another day.

- Robert Bennett

Dr. Bennett confirmed that if the temperature rises sufficiently, spiders can come out of hibernation. In Boulder, on Christmas night 1996, the temperature reached a low of 6 degrees, but it rose the next day to a high of 51. And the grate faced southwest – toward the sun. Perfect conditions for a hibernating spider to wake up and repair a damaged web. In October 1997 Detective Everett would learn from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that it was impossible to determine the condition of the dew frost or snow cover on the ground around the Ramsey residence during the night of December 25 and into the morning of December 26.

Steve Thomas book pb page 108

Wickman had an argument at the Ramsey house with Detective Greg Idler, who had carefully lifted the metal grate above the broken window and found that the spiderweb between the window well bricks and the grate wasn't necessarily attached. Wickman challenged Idler's findings. The original web had never been photographed or committed to a report, a huge error that would become extraordinarily controversial in months to come.

Steve Thomas pb page 219

In December both Sergeant Wickman and Detective Mike Everett had seen at least three strands of a spiderweb reaching from the brick window well upward to the covering grate. No one had photographed it.


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BraveHeart
Member since 5-8-02
10-23-06, 06:53 PM (EST)
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3. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #2
 
   "In October 1997 Detective Everett would learn from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that it was impossible to determine the condition of the dew frost or snow cover on the ground around the Ramsey residence during the night of December 25 and into the morning of December 26."

Not exactly true. The hourly weather conditions, latent and sensible temperatures, for the weather station at Boulder and nearby towns was at one time posted on the web. Using a psychrometric chart I was able to determine the dewpoints/freezepoints for the night of the 25th. and 26th. Those figures show that there could have been no frost forming on the ground that night. A discussion on this topic is in the evidence section.

Granted, we have no weather readings for the Ramsey's yard that night, but the wind was rather still (I believe it was about 5 MPH)and it is reasonable to extrapolate the weather conditions for the neighborhoods around the weather stations.

Crime scene photos were taken that morning which showed no frost on the ground or sidewalks and we know the ambient (outdoor) temperature did not rise above freezing until after lunch.



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BraveHeart
Member since 5-8-02
10-23-06, 07:02 PM (EST)
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4. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #3
 
   The other thing to realize is that the temperature at the grate, because it had warmer basement air rising up past it-hot air rises-was significantly warmer than the surrounding air. It probably was 20 to 30 degrees warmer which could have made all the difference in the world, as far as the spider being active. Consider also that the hole in the pane had been there all fall and winter and so it may not have occurred to the spider that he/she should have been sleeping.

To find out for sure, the basement window should be opened 4 to 6 inches in the winter on sveral nights and the temperature measured to get an average temperature difference between the air and grate temperatures.

I guess this never occurred to anyone that I can tell.


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Mame
Member since 8-20-06
10-23-06, 07:09 PM (EST)
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5. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #4
 
   I would seem to me NOAA could not give an exact temperature/dew point around the residence because they can't be that precise. Depending on how far the weather station is...the difference could be a lot. Altitude makes this very dicey. Since NOAA is located in Boulder they are well aware of the changes in the foothills.


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BraveHeart
Member since 5-8-02
10-23-06, 07:20 PM (EST)
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6. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #5
 
   The station where the measurements were made is located near the University on the main road. They are made every hour. The air temperature at 4 feet above grade and relative humidity plus wind speed and baromatric pressure are measured.

We are talking a few blocks here, and not much change in elevation or anything else.


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Mame
Member since 8-20-06
10-23-06, 07:29 PM (EST)
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7. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #6
 
   I'd call and ask them Braveheart. They are wonderful out there. I've been there many times on field trips with kids!! And they are always on TV for major interviews during hurricanes, etc.

Your work is great...I would definitely give them a call.

I'm wondering if the weather station is at NOAA? It's on the main road although several miles from the Ramseys.


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Rainsong
Member since 8-20-06
10-23-06, 09:53 PM (EST)
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8. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON 10-23-06 AT 10:10 PM (EST)
 
All this talk of the spider web is moot, though I do appreciate the expert opinions.

Anyone with common sense knows darn well a spider web can be re-spun in a relatively short amount of time. Walk through a basement at any given time--no spider web. Go through the same area an hour later and you end up with a web across your face. Same thing for outdoors, your car door, stepping off the porch, going for a walk in the woods, whatever. On the trip out--no web. Return trip--full web right across your chops.

Doesn't anyone pay attention to personal experience in even the simplest matters?

Rainsong


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one_eyed_Jackmoderator
Member since 2-22-04
10-23-06, 10:33 PM (EST)
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9. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #8
 
   On the trip out--no web. Return trip--full web right across your chops.

I hate it when that happens.


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BraveHeart
Member since 5-8-02
10-24-06, 08:45 AM (EST)
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10. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #9
 
   LAST EDITED ON 10-24-06 AT 08:49 AM (EST)
 
http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=

Google says it's .9 miles from the former Ramsey house. I may be mistaken but I believe they do take readings here. I know I have gotten some data from Jefco, Broomfield and Boulder stations.

It looks like the link doesn't return to the map. Here are the addresses:

325 Broadway, Boulder, CO 80305
755 15th St, Boulder, CO 80302


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Mame
Member since 8-20-06
10-24-06, 09:04 AM (EST)
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11. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #10
 
   You're right Braveheart...that is rather close. It's a little higher in elevation. I'm no scientist...but, can only assume NOAA could not provide an assessment that would rise to the level of evidence required in a court of law unless they were able to recreate the exact conditions.

I really don't know...but, if I were you, especially given the work you've done, I'd call them and ask.


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BraveHeart
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10-24-06, 01:18 PM (EST)
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12. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #11
 
   Mame,
I enjoy reading your posts and getting your perspective on different aspects of this case. With your encouragement I am thinking that I'll try to put together some web pages on the topic of weather that will more professionally and clearly show what I've found and invite some real life meterologists to comment on my conclusions, including the folks at NOAA.

The problem I've found with archived weather data is that only a few stations keep their hourly dry bulb temperature and relative humidity data this long. The station at Boulder on Broadway did not, Broomfield, Boulder airport and Denver did, and I have tried to compare that with the daily high and low data at the Boulder station as a way of validating what I had to go on. The 3 stations which had hourly data did not vary greatly and that I think is due to very little wind movement in the Denver/Boulder/Longmont area.


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Dave
Member since 5-8-02
10-24-06, 07:54 PM (EST)
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13. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #12
 
   Braveheart has done by far the best work that is publicly available on the issue of temperatures, frost/snow, etc. that night.


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Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
10-25-06, 01:13 AM (EST)
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14. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #13
 
   Yes, I agree with you, Dave. It needs to get back into the "Ramsey Files" documentation forum.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
10-25-06, 07:06 PM (EST)
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15. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #14
 
   Lou Smitand others did experiments at that very window. if the grate was lifted up as if on a hinge, any spiderwebs between the grate and the house would stretch and not break. if the grate was moved off atone end, ony that end would break. Only if it was REMOVED would all those spiderwebs be broken.

And we need to remember these guys were writing their reports hours after they made their observations. A spiderweb at one end that went from a wall to a window frame might be remembered as one that was attached tothe grate - - especially if the BORG cops were doing all they could to make it look like an inside job.

You know - - there were no prints in the snow and the spider webs were undisturbed.


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one_eyed_Jackmoderator
Member since 2-22-04
10-25-06, 07:49 PM (EST)
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16. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #15
 
   What I found most interesting is that for the spider to wake up and spin the web, someone would have had to come through there to break the spider's casing. Very interesting.

I hope you do put together some pages and talk to NOAA, Braveheart. I think that's a great idea.


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Evening2
Member since 7-7-03
10-25-06, 08:05 PM (EST)
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17. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #16
 
   Regarding the spider, when a spider is awakened he spins a web for only one reason, and that is to catch his prey. To me, that says someone DID indeed come through that window, awakened a spider, and then he spun a web. Depending how long it takes a spider to spin a new web, might assist in determining if the killers left via the window.


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BraveHeart
Member since 5-8-02
11-02-06, 03:27 PM (EST)
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18. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #17
 
   Guess what?
Nothing in Boulder is as it seems.

You would expect a weather station to record a day's weather on the calendar day it occurred, wouldn't you? Apparently, that is not the case in Boulder. Go figure.

Since I last posted on this thread I have found an hourly record of observations for each day in December, 1996,for Boulder, Colorado. But the notations/observations are for 24 hour periods that do not coincide with the calendar day. That is, whatever happened after 5:00 PM, on the 25th. was actually counted as happening on the 26th. When that was recorded on the daily maximums and minimums record, which I had found previously, it showed a trace of snow on the 26th. According to this new record, that may not be the case. If this document is correct, the trace fell on the evening of the 25th., in the period from 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM.

I have a contact in NOAA NWS who has agreed to look at the form, which I emailed to them today, to verify if this is correct and to comment on what it might mean.

If you told me that Boulder was the epicenter of some mountanous metaphysical vortex similar to the Bermuda Triangle, that was threatening to suck me into it's bottomless black hole, I would believe you.

peace out.


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Mame
Member since 8-20-06
11-02-06, 05:14 PM (EST)
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19. "RE:The whole story"
In response to message #18
 
   Oh, BraveHeart...

You poor thing! Yes, if truth be told it is a metaphysical vortex leading to a big ol' black hole. (My eldest son moved out of Boulder a month ago...it was a happy day indeed)...

Hang in there. I wish you were my weather girl...