jameson's WebbSleuths

Subject: "JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 31"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy    
Conferences Ramsey discussion 2 Topic #2448
Reading Topic #2448
Mame
Member since 1-20-08
11-14-06, 02:15 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Mame Click to send private message to Mame Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 31"
 
   JonBenet Investigator Talks Exclusively to Fox 31 News
Created: Monday, 13 Nov 2006, 9:29 PM MST
JonBenet Ramsey
DENVER --

The tenth anniversary of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey is rapidly approaching. The whirlwind surrounding the arrest and release of John Mark Karr shows it's a mystery that continues to capture the nation’s attention.

Fox 31 News and Investigative Reporter Julie Hayden have received new information as one of the investigators talks for the first time about her experiences with the case.

Holly Smith recently wrote a book about her 20 years with the Boulder County Sexual Abuse team. She left out the chapter about the Ramsey case, but is now revealing her part of the investigation exclusively to us.

A Memory Forever Engrained

Holly Smith remembers walking up the steps to the Ramsey home: the big candy canes more jarring than festive considering the circumstances. The house was lavishly decorated.

Smith recalls, "It was big and it was meandering and it was schmanzy fancy."

It was the third day of the investigation into the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. Smith was head of the Boulder County Sexual Abuse team and has been called into the investigation, as she says, "to consult about some of the dynamics and some of the things people suspected might be going on with this case."

She started, as always, with a visit to the child’s bedroom.

"That's a really important piece of getting a real feel for a family," Smith explains.

With portfolio pictures galore and closets full of JonBenet’s elaborate pageant outfits, Smith says she had a hard time getting a fell for who the little girl really was, even in her bedroom.

She recalls, "I just had a sense the type of decor in her bedroom was not really a child's decor."

One poignant find that she does recall was a red satin box with what looked like JonBenet’s secret stash of candy.

She found something else in the room, however, which raised an immediate red flag. Smith says most of the panties in JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal material.

"There is this dynamic of children that have been sexually abused sometimes soiling themselves or urinating in their beds to keep someone who is hurting them at bay," explains Smith.

JonBenet also had a history of bedwetting. While Smith points out there could be innocent explanations, this was the kind of information that raised questions.

"It's very different for every child, but when you have a child that's had this problem and it's pretty chronic for that child, and in addition you know some sort of physical evidence or trauma or an allegation, you put all those little pieces together and it just goes in your head," she says.

Smith adds, "There was an indication of trauma in the vaginal area."

The coroner's autopsy discovered evidence investigators say indicates JonBenet suffered vaginal trauma the night she was murdered. However the autopsy report also describes evidence of possible prior vaginal trauma. Experts disagree about the significance of that.

It could indicate previous injury or infection, a sign of abuse, or nothing at all.

Arapahoe County Coroner Dr. Michael Doberson says you would need more information before you could come to any conclusion. That was part of Smith's job. But then she was abruptly pulled off the investigation and told police were handling everything.

"There was a lot of territoriality around the case,” she says.

Smith says she also saw things in the Ramsey investigation that she's seen in other cases, like the factor that money played in it.

"No one is exempt but people with money are able to keep themselves more cushioned,” she says.

She says she also saw a reluctance to even consider the issue of child sex abuse.

Says Smith, "It’s just not a place where you know it's so abhorrent to people that they can't even do it, they can't even wrap their heads around it but it's more common than we think. The sexual violation of children has been around for a long time."

Smith believes all of them involved with the case lost their way.

She concludes, "In all the hyper-personalization around this case, everybody wanting a piece of it, everybody wanting to be the hero understandably and wanting to find out what happened to this little girl, our purpose really got lost. We lost sight of this child."

In her writing, Smith describes seeing a picture of a smiling JonBenet, taken Christmas morning and tells how distressing it was to realize the child would die what she called a hideous death that very day.

A lawyer for the Ramsey family did not return our phone calls. But the Ramseys have always denied that JonBenet suffered any kind of prior abuse and point out her pediatrician never saw anything indicating abuse, either.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 DonBradley 11-14-06 1
  RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 Mikiemoderator 11-14-06 2
     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 Margoo 11-14-06 3
  RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 Mikiemoderator 11-14-06 4
     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 ponyduck 11-14-06 5
     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-14-06 9
         RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-14-06 10
  RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-14-06 6
     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-14-06 7
         RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-14-06 8
             RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 aspen 11-15-06 11
                 RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-15-06 12
  RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 DonBradley 11-15-06 13
     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 mBm 11-15-06 14
         RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 Mikiemoderator 11-15-06 15
             RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 ponyduck 11-16-06 16
                 RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 DonBradley 11-16-06 17
                     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 Mikiemoderator 11-16-06 18
                         RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 Margoo 11-16-06 19
                             RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 11-16-06 20
                                 RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 jamesonadmin 01-01-08 21
                                     RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3 aboleyn 03-10-08 22

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
DonBradley
Member since 9-10-02
11-14-06, 02:29 PM (EST)
Click to EMail DonBradley Click to send private message to DonBradley Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #0
 
   I wonder why the BPD did not want such a biased investigator on the case, particularly one so lacking in competence as to see 'pageant gowns' everywhere but not see the far more numerous ordinary clothes. 'Schmantzy'?? Well, if it ain't 'Boulder Rustic' decoration then surely they must be child molesters.

By the way, I know the room in CHX was decorated by an interior decorator. I wonder if the Boulder room was also? In which case the personal characteristics this 'investigator' attributes to Patsy Ramsey should really be attributed to the interior decorator.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mikiemoderator
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 02:35 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Mikie Click to send private message to Mikie Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #0
 
   MOTIVE

For what reason was JonBenet murdered? The answer to that question is crucial to the solution of the case. My opinion is that she was killed to keep her quiet about sexual abuse.

There is much evidence that she was abused sexually. I say "much" meaning there are many subtle clues. They are all questionable clues, but if a reasonable guess is to be made about "why was she killed" then one has to place pieces into the incomplete puzzle.

There was a letter sent to BPD by someone...perhaps a child...who claimed that JonBenet had told her that she had been abused by a "family friend". That report was never confirmed by the BPD and so it is probably best called "unconfirmed evidence" of abuse. It was not publicized, as far as I know, just mentioned in a forum, a quasi-fact, a rumor, whatever. But there is other evidence which supports it.

Wecht claimed that the autopsy report shows signs of prior sexual abuse roughly 72 hours prior to the murder. That would be roughly at the time of the party on the 23rd in which a 911 call was made to the police. Again, this phone call was "said" to have been made by Fleet White, who accidentally dialed 911, while arranging a prescription for his father. Nevertheless, it seems conceivable to me that with Wecht's claim, and the timing of the 911 call, it just might have been that JonBenet dialed 911 in response to sexual abuse at that time. Call it "unconfirmed evidence" if you wish...or "theory".

There were stungun marks found on JonBenet's body...on her face, and on her back. Interestingly, there were what appears to be stungun marks on her leg in a photo taken in August 1996. (See Photo). Was she being stunned somehow without anyone's knowledge? Darlie Routier showed signs of being stunned repeatedly while asleep, yet she could not remember her attack.

I believe that with melatonin, a person could be induced to sleep so deeply that they would have no recollection whatsoever of a sexual attack.

WAS SHE BEING MOLESTED?

When Susan Stine answered the door she convinced the police that the call must have been a mistake. Just think for a minute. What if the 911 call was made by JonBenet because had been molested by Fleet? Can anyone confirm that she was observed throughout the evening with no difference from her normal character?
Even Janet McReynolds regarded her that evening as "pensive"...isn't that unlike her normal character? Why, isn't that out of character?

Did anyone at the party keep their eye on JonBenet for the entire time? Where was she when the police came to the door?

Wecht theorizes that she had been molested at some time around up to 72 hours prior to her murder. The 911 call was made at about 6pm on the 23rd...about 54 hours prior to her murder. If so, why would she not tell everyone? Maybe because she was threatened? Or perhaps, it is just the sort of frightful thing that little girls hold within themselves, sometimes for a lifetime.

Check the picture of her leg with what looks like stun gun marks. Was she being stunned in her sleep months prior to the murder, so that someone could molest her without her knowing? Note that Darlie Routier was not aware of being stunned and molested during her attack, and upon awakening, had no recall of the attack. Could that have happened to JonBenet on a regular basis?

lease continue to Part 4, using link at left, above.

http://www.geocities.com/astrospy/webbsleuthspart3.html


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
11-14-06, 03:33 PM (EST)
Click to send private message to Margoo Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON 11-14-06 AT 03:33 PM (EST)
 
Fecal stained underwear in her "dresser"?? What "dresser"? Her panties were kept in a drawer in the bathroom.


"There is this dynamic of children that have been sexually abused sometimes soiling themselves or urinating in their beds to keep someone who is hurting them at bay," explains Smith.

It is also a familial pattern. All of John's 5 children had bedwetting problems. Melinda is an adult and a nurse. If she had been abused by her father, she'd say so, especially with the murder of her step-sister and any potential link to familial abuse.

It is also something that would occur when a child, at the age toilet training is underway, has a mother so sick with cancer that PROPER attention to toilet training CANNOT be provided.

It is also something that should seem predictable in a child who is fully aware that at any time her very sick mother can die from her illness.

It is also something that should seem predictable in a child whose step-sister was killed in a car accident, a child who could not miss the sorrow her father, her mother, and her step-brother and -sister were feeling.


The coroner's autopsy discovered evidence investigators say indicates JonBenet suffered vaginal trauma the night she was murdered. However the autopsy report also describes evidence of possible prior vaginal trauma. Experts disagree about the significance of that.

The autopsy reports "chronic INFLAMMATION", not "possible prior vaginal trauma".


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mikiemoderator
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 04:19 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Mikie Click to send private message to Mikie Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #0
 
   Fire of the Five Hearts
http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Five-Hearts-Holly-Smith/dp/1583913548/sr=8-1/qid=1163535051/ref=sr_1_1/102-9579293-8190526?ie=UTF8&s=books

From Publishers Weekly
Suffering from an attack of an anxiety-driven illness, social worker Smith visited a doctor who told her that according to Chinese medical philosophy, every person has five hearts. Relieved, Smith decided that she'd need all five, because one wasn't enough to effectively do the work that had defined her life for the past 20 years. In her quest to bring light to what she calls the gravest and most destructive atrocity to be thrust upon children, Smith writes candidly about her experience as a social worker treating incest. The chilling, journal-like narrative begins with the tale of four-year-old Isabella, who was sexually abused by her father. It was Smith's fifth day on the job, and as she interviewed the shy girl, she was overwhelmed by her maternal need to protect the child. While waiting for the arrival of Isabella's foster family, Smith bathed the child in a sink, hoping to "polish and shine her" in an effort to detract from the impurity that had been forced upon her. She proceeds to fill the book with a series of equally troubling cases, in which Smith and her colleagues serve as ex post facto saviors, collecting the battered and bruised and trying to reassemble their lives. Written reflectively, the book acknowledges the fragility of those who are called to heal the broken. Smith, who also leads training sessions for new social workers, posits there is no recipe for resilience, but certainly this book can be added to the social worker's toolkit because, along with some of the distressing accounts of horror, there is also hope.
Copyright 2002 Reed Business Information, Inc.
From Library Journal
According to the author, one in four women experience sexual abuse before the age of 18. This shocking statistic provides the basis for this unusual but somewhat unsatisfying book, which is grounded in the author's admirable 20-year career treating victims of incest and teaching graduate-level courses (Denver Univ. Sch. of Social Work and Naropa Inst.). The book begins with the story of her entry into the field, a profession she movingly describes as a "calling." Vignettes drawn from actual case studies examine various manifestations of incest, including sibling abuse and teacher/therapist incidents. The personal anecdotes that follow are gracefully written but tend to be impressionistic and focused on gritty, disturbing details. The author's orientation toward psychotherapy is apparent, but few clinical insights into causes or treatments for such trauma are offered. Instead, her reflections are primarily self-revelatory, e.g., she asserts that such work makes her a "healthier" mother and, upon discovering a trusted subordinate's long-term, improper diversion of funds, remarks on her perceived similarity to an incest victim's parent. This emotionally honest and compassionate book about dealing with shame and its toll on professionals is recommended only for specialized collections. More general libraries should already hold Christine Courtois's Healing the Incest Wound: Adult Survivors in Therapy and Judith Lewis Herman's Father-Daughter Incest.
Antoinette Brinkman, M.L.S., Evansville, IN
Copyright 2002 Reed Business Information, Inc.

http://www.ralphmag.org/BQ/incest.html

As we read more, we don't envy her job either. For twenty years, Smith worked at the County Survival Abuse Team in Colorado, and ended up as director of the program. She was in charge of all the cases that came down the pipeline from the courts and the police.
One thing we learn from her early on is that those who work with children and their parents in this particularly unsavory business come to be somewhat off-kilter themselves. Smith suffers from panic attacks, jags of crying, the need to run away and hide, and paranoiac fantasies that someone is going to invade her office and blow her brains out.
She may go through experiences of passionate and loving intensity of the world and the people around her: the trees, the mountains, the birds, her husband, her children. But, given her day-to-day reality, there is a poison lurking about the edges. Not only does she fear for her own safety, she thinks, daily, hourly, of the safety of her own children. She has seen too much to be complacent around any but a few of her long-term friends and fellow-workers. The job never leaves her.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ponyduck
Charter Member
11-14-06, 05:03 PM (EST)
Click to EMail ponyduck Click to send private message to ponyduck Click to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #4
 
   Don Bradley wrote:
I wonder why the BPD did not want such a biased investigator on the case, particularly one so lacking in competence as to see 'pageant gowns' everywhere but not see the far more numerous ordinary clothes. 'Schmantzy'?? Well, if it ain't 'Boulder Rustic' decoration then surely they must be child molesters.

By the way, I know the room in CHX was decorated by an interior decorator. I wonder if the Boulder room was also? In which case the personal characteristics this 'investigator' attributes to Patsy Ramsey should really be attributed to the interior decorator.

That was my first thought too, Don--why not keep her on the case? She seems to fit in perfectly with all the other biased, unprofessional "investigators" in this case. Maybe by then, they had already decided that Patsy was "good for it" and didn't need anyone muddying the waters with other theories.

I continue to be amazed at the utter lack of professionalism, and lack of basic maturity in so many investigators in this case. They seem unable to recognize how their own personal biases are coloring their conclusions. Objectivity seems to be beyond their grasp.

Although I can still perhaps consider the possibility of prior sexual abuse of JBR by a family friend or acquaintance as a theory, it won't be because of anything this Smith woman has to say. In just those few sentences quoted above, she's managed to effectively destroy her credibility for me.

--pony


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 07:36 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #4
 
  
>From Publishers Weekly
>Suffering from an attack of an anxiety-driven illness,
>social worker Smith visited a doctor who told her that
>according to Chinese medical philosophy, every person has
>five hearts. Relieved, Smith decided that she'd need all
>five, because one wasn't enough to effectively do the work
>that had defined her life for the past 20 years.

anxiety-driven illness - - is that the politically correct way to say she was burnt out? I think so.


In her
>quest to bring light to what she calls the gravest and most
>destructive atrocity to be thrust upon children, Smith
>writes candidly about her experience as a social worker
>treating incest.

So that's her niche - - handling incest victims. OK - - so now we know what she wanted to find int he ramsey house - - to give her life more purpose, perhaps.

The chilling, journal-like narrative begins
>with the tale of four-year-old Isabella, who was sexually
>abused by her father. It was Smith's fifth day on the job,
>and as she interviewed the shy girl, she was overwhelmed by
>her maternal need to protect the child.

As a foster parent of at least one child who had been sexually assaulted by a trusted family member, I can identify with that.

While waiting for
>the arrival of Isabella's foster family, Smith bathed the
>child in a sink, hoping to "polish and shine her" in an
>effort to detract from the impurity that had been forced
>upon her.

Excuse me? Did this woman actually feel the child was made impure by an act forced upon her? How horrible for the child who was then looking to her for protection. Physically, she may have protected these kids, but emotionally - - no, even if she didn't say it - - they knew. How horrible they had to deal with her and her negative feelings toward them.

This woman should not have been a social worker - - what were they thinking when they hired her?? Didn't they do any psychological testing before they gave her these cases?


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 07:40 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #9
 
  
>
>As we read more, we don't envy her job either. For twenty
>years, Smith worked at the County Survival Abuse Team in
>Colorado, and ended up as director of the program. She was
>in charge of all the cases that came down the pipeline from
>the courts and the police.
>One thing we learn from her early on is that those who work
>with children and their parents in this particularly
>unsavory business come to be somewhat off-kilter themselves.
>Smith suffers from panic attacks, jags of crying, the need
>to run away and hide, and paranoiac fantasies that someone
>is going to invade her office and blow her brains out.
>She may go through experiences of passionate and loving
>intensity of the world and the people around her: the trees,
>the mountains, the birds, her husband, her children. But,
>given her day-to-day reality, there is a poison lurking
>about the edges. Not only does she fear for her own safety,
>she thinks, daily, hourly, of the safety of her own
>children. She has seen too much to be complacent around any
>but a few of her long-term friends and fellow-workers. The
>job never leaves her.

Such is life - - people gather baggage as they move through life. But she really isn't doing anyone any favors now by exaggerating or incorrectly remembering the evidence in the Ramsey case 10 years later.

She should be honest - - or shut up.

JMVHO - of course.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 06:58 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 11-14-06 AT 06:58 PM (EST)
 
>
>Smith recalls, "...it was schmanzy fancy."

It is clear she already didn't like them. They were "schmanzy fancy".


> Smith was head of the Boulder County Sexual
>Abuse team and has been called into the investigation..."

... to look for evidence of sexual abuse, obviously. I mean, she wasn't called in to check out the handwriting.

An honest investigator is alays willing to look for evidence - - and to be thankful when none is found. In this case, the police called her in and they were looking for experts who would put the blame on the parents. An honest expert wouldn't let that influence the outcome - - but other would. I have yet to read all this - - hoping she is one of the honest ones but doubting she will be


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 07:17 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #6
 
   .>
>She started, as always, with a visit to the child’s bedroom.
>
>"That's a really important piece of getting a real feel for
>a family," Smith explains.
>
>With portfolio pictures galore and closets full of
>JonBenet’s elaborate pageant outfits, Smith says she had a
>hard time getting a feel for who the little girl really was,
>even in her bedroom.
>
>She recalls, "I just had a sense the type of decor in her
>bedroom was not really a child's decor."

Most parents pick the "decor" - - that goes for the kids with Winnie the Pooh themes, Jungle themes or ballerina themes. The kid may or may not like what the parents do with their rooms - - but the bottom line is, the parents choose the decor and their pocketbooks dictate how "done" it is.
In the Ramsey house, Burke's room was decorated in airplanes and JonBenet's was very frilly.... There were pageant trophies and Barbies and a cabinet painted in fairy tale characters.
Not exactly a child's? I think this "investigator" is being a bit harsh. No, not a bit - a lot.

>
>One poignant find that she does recall was a red satin box
>with what looked like JonBenet’s secret stash of candy.

Ah - - the "secret stash" I remember having those - - Halloween candy, then Christmas stuff... doesn't seem JonBenet was so different from any other kid. But this investigator seems hard pressed to admit that - - and I wonder why.
>
>She found something else in the room, however, which raised
>an immediate red flag. Smith says most of the panties in
>JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal
>material.

Since her panties were not stored in her dresser drawers - - they were kept in the built in drawers in the bathroom - - this indicates to me some deceit on the part of the investigator. BUT - - I will say this. She used the word SOILED, not "stained".... is she saying there were dirty panties in the drawers?

I have to say - - if that were true, I would be truly disgusted. So would everyone else have been.

Think about that. If that were true - - don't you think we would have heard about that LONG ago? Don't you think Steve Thomas and others would have screamed that from the rooftops? Don't you think that would have come out in the Ramsey interviews?

I think this woman is not credible at all. I think she is a simply liar.

>
>"There is this dynamic of children that have been sexually
>abused sometimes soiling themselves or urinating in their
>beds to keep someone who is hurting them at bay," explains
>Smith.

Yes, it is true - - also true is the fact that some kids wet the beds longer than others. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
>
>JonBenet also had a history of bedwetting. While Smith
>points out there could be innocent explanations, this was
>the kind of information that raised questions.
>
>"It's very different for every child, but when you have a
>child that's had this problem and it's pretty chronic for
>that child, and in addition you know some sort of physical
>evidence or trauma or an allegation, you put all those
>little pieces together and it just goes in your head," she
>says.

Interesting - - she included "an allegation". There was no evidence of abuse prior to the night of her murder, but like the BORG, this woman is putting great weight into an allegation. Like if she repeats it three times, it might become accepted as fact.

Not right.
>
>Smith adds, "There was an indication of trauma in the
>vaginal area."

She was raped - digitally assaulted, on the night of her murder, so yes, there was trauma.
>
>The coroner's autopsy discovered evidence investigators say
>indicates JonBenet suffered vaginal trauma the night she was
>murdered. However the autopsy report also describes evidence
>of possible prior vaginal trauma. Experts disagree about the
>significance of that.

Not vaginal trauma - - no way. The evidence was irritation, easily attributed to poor hygene, wiping back to front in the toilet.
>
>It could indicate previous injury or infection, a sign of
>abuse, or nothing at all.

But this woman is out to make it sound like something - - that's obvious. She reminds me of the Miss America who was a victim so jumped on the bandwagon.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-14-06, 07:30 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #7
 
  
>
>Arapahoe County Coroner Dr. Michael Doberson says you would
>need more information before you could come to any
>conclusion. That was part of Smith's job. But then she was
>abruptly pulled off the investigation and told police were
>handling everything.
>
>"There was a lot of territoriality around the case,” she
>says.

Ah - - she was pulled off the case. Told the police would handle it. Maybe they could tell early on that she was not going to make a good witness if ever called to testify. JMO, but I think she would be weak link in any Ramsey prosecution. Consider her first impression of the Ramseys, formed by walking in their front yard.
>
>Smith says she also saw things in the Ramsey investigation
>that she's seen in other cases, like the factor that money
>played in it.
>
>"No one is exempt but people with money are able to keep
>themselves more cushioned,” she says.

Not just money, I think, but also politics. Lots of people advanced their carreers by this investigation.
>
>She says she also saw a reluctance to even consider the
>issue of child sex abuse.
>
>Says Smith, "It’s just not a place where you know it's so
>abhorrent to people that they can't even do it, they can't
>even wrap their heads around it but it's more common than we
>think. The sexual violation of children has been around for
>a long time."

Oh, I think I see. Like the Miss America who couldn't separate her own experiences from those of JonBenet, she is using her imagination to make the evidence prove more than it does - - for her own purpose. See is seeking children suffering repeated abuse, and ... well, wishful thinking, that God, is not evidence. The fact is, JonBenet had a lovely life until her killer took her from her bed.
>
>Smith believes all of them involved with the case lost their
>way.
>
>She concludes, "In all the hyper-personalization around this
>case, everybody wanting a piece of it, everybody wanting to
>be the hero understandably and wanting to find out what
>happened to this little girl, our purpose really got lost.
>We lost sight of this child."

Yeah - what she said. I think she is a prime example of "hyper-personalization"
>
>In her writing, Smith describes seeing a picture of a
>smiling JonBenet, taken Christmas morning and tells how
>distressing it was to realize the child would die what she
>called a hideous death that very day.

We've all shared the same experience.
>
>A lawyer for the Ramsey family did not return our phone
>calls. But the Ramseys have always denied that JonBenet
>suffered any kind of prior abuse and point out her
>pediatrician never saw anything indicating abuse, either.

If Lin has photos of all the panties taken that morning - - and police reports indicating they weren't "soiled with fecal matter", maybe she will hear from him direct. I sure wouldn't feel bad if he discredited her in a very public way.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
aspen
Charter Member
11-15-06, 05:10 PM (EST)
Click to EMail aspen Click to send private message to aspen Click to add this user to your buddy list  
11. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #8
 
   I thought it ws ironic that she would say "everybody wanted a piece of this case," so now what is she doing? Writing a book! LOL!

I was going to rebut some of her allegations, but Jameson has done a nice job of doing that.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-15-06, 05:58 PM (EST)
Click to EMail jameson Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
12. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #11
 
   Please feel free to add your own thoughts - - let the world know I wasn't a lone voice.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
DonBradley
Member since 9-10-02
11-15-06, 06:29 PM (EST)
Click to EMail DonBradley Click to send private message to DonBradley Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
13. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #0
 
   >JonBenet Investigator Talks Exclusively to Fox 31 News

Actually, its more properly styled 'Fox 31 News gives publicity to narrow-minded, biased investigator trying to peddle a book revealing that she added nothing at all to the investigation.'


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mBm
Member since 8-21-06
11-15-06, 08:47 PM (EST)
Click to EMail mBm Click to send private message to mBm Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
14. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #13
 
   Actually, when you come right down to it, she had quite a few of her "facts" wrong...a la Nancy Grace.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mikiemoderator
Member since 5-8-02
11-15-06, 11:21 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Mikie Click to send private message to Mikie Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
15. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #14
 
   The previous posters seem too harsh, to me. I hope nobody minds too much if I put in a few words of my own thinking.

The article seems pretty accurate to me. The fact is, this woman has dealt with child abuse in a way most people never see, up close and personal. She seems to me like a person who is very caring and well suited for her job.

She is emotional and affected by the abuse, which is necessary to get through it day after day. She is caring because she really does feel the hurt of the children she sees.

The truth is, in her job, she goes from one bad story to another, and that is not a very pleasant thing. As the article states, she has panic attacks and other ailments resulting from the work. Yet she keeps on it and has twenty years of experience with something that most people would gladly say "count me out".

The article gives both sides of the question. It says that there are disagreements among the experts about the Ramsey case. It explains how you have to put a lot of pieces together in your head, to figure out what happens. Urine-stained panties do not always mean abuse, but can and do. The article seems to me to explain the duality of interpretation, leaving conclusion to the reader.

I think if you read it with an open mind you will see that the article was well-written. If you close your eyes to all evidence that JonBenet was abused, a blindfolded approach, you will find yourselves disagreeing with the implications, the validity, and the usefulness of the article and Holly Smith's point of view.


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ponyduck
Charter Member
11-16-06, 03:00 AM (EST)
Click to EMail ponyduck Click to send private message to ponyduck Click to add this user to your buddy list  
16. "RE: JonBenet Investigator Talks to Fox 3"
In response to message #15
 
   I'm not completely discounting the idea that JBR could have been molested prior to the night of her murder. My problem with Smith is that IMO she just doesn't come across as professional. Using the term "fancy schmantzy"--it's meant pejoratively and we all know it. So right off the bat she reveals she enters the case with a preconceived bias against the Ramseys. And the remark about closets full of pageant clothes. Obvious hyperbole. About the room not looking like a child's. Jameson was right on about most 6-year-old's rooms being decorated by the moms (or a decorator) projecting what a little girl's room should look like.

Her putting down others for trying to get a piece of the action, when she herself is doing the same thing. Her acknowledging that she was off the case early on, yet proceding to speak authoritatively as if she had any more access to the case info than any of us here have.

She just strikes me as another of the many people in this case who try to pass off their opinions as facts. And sadly, they are unable to see the difference.

--pony


  Alert | IP Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top