Not meaning to doubt Jams' word on this, but Tracy seems to feel differently, e.g.:

What did Tracey mean when he said there is a strange, extremely interesting story connected to the bear that will "probably" emerge at some point?

Jams' explanation does not qualify, imo, as being "extremely interesting". It appears Tracy has something else in mind.

>And where, exactly, is it now? Nobody knows.

Does this mean even LE does not know? It is more likely that LE has the Santa Bear, holding it in evidence.

LE had only a photograph, which was shown to Patsy. Patsy turned white, thinking it was strangely out of place. LE then put out an APB for the bear, searching the country for months. Why would they do that if they already had it?

Sorry, but I didn't realize they only had a photograph.

If it has never turned up, then that is all the more reason to wonder about Tracey's comments.

Also,

>>>>The bear was given to JonBenet as part of a pageant package,
>>according to jameson. The excitement about it died when
>>that was learned.
>
>Not meaning to doubt Jams' word on this, but Tracy seems to
>feel differently, e.g.:
It's a matter of timing...jameson was after Tracey.

As for the matter of timing, I think Tracey felt (by his own words) that when he said, there is a strange, extremely interesting story connected to the bear, that there was exactly what he said, a strange, extremely interesting story connected to the Bear.

Jams' explanation that it was part of a pageant package does not fit this description, even though her explanation comes after Tracey's. Therefore the timing would be insignificant (imo).

If the bear was ordinary and on her bed, then why did Patsy turn white and why did it disapear off the bed?

Is it possible that the intruder took the bear with him as a souvenir and left a photograph of it? And that is why it was missing?

If Patsy or her sister had removed it when they were allowed back in the house it would not have taken months of looking for it.

It wasn't listed on the evidence list was it? Don't think so.

Let's just think about these statements for a moment.

Consider that the Bear "disappeared" off the bed.

The intruder took the bear with him for a souvenir but did NOT leave a photograph of it.

Patsy's face turned white when she was shown the photograph, so obviously something aroused fear, interest, or some type of surprise in her.

OK. Then how did LE even know about the Santa Bear?

Does this mean the intruder did indeed leave a photograph of the Santa Bear?

From a news article:

Ex-detective: Girl's aunt took evidence
By Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writer
Feb. 17 - Breaking his long-standing silence, a former Boulder detective Tuesday accused JonBenet Ramsey's aunt of taking potential evidence from the Ramsey home the day after the girl was found dead....
Not so, said Pam Paugh, Patsy Ramsey's sister, speaking from her Georgia home on Tuesday.

"First of all, he wasn't there. Second of all, I went in with a listing of things,'' Paugh said, referring to a list of items she wanted to retrieve. "Every place I went, there was a detective. He was with me. He never left my side. He inspected everything. He selected the bags. He packed everything. I didn't pack anything.''

Paugh said she took clothing, pictures of JonBenet, and some stuffed animals and dolls. She also took a medal JonBenet had won in a talent contest and some beauty pageant banners.

But she didn't take a teddy bear, dressed like Santa Claus, sitting on a bed in JonBenet's room, Paugh said. The district attorney's office last month launched a search for the manufacturer and the retail outlets that sold similar bears.

"...didn't take a teddy bear, dressed like Santa Claus, sitting on a bed in JonBenet's room, Paugh said. The district attorney's office last month launched a search for the manufacturer and the retail outlets that sold similar bears."

"I saw the teddy bear on the bed,'' that day she retrieved the items, Paugh said. "I hadn't seen it before. But I didn't touch it, and I didn't take it.''

So, the bear was on the bed after the crime, the pageant prize lady thought it was the one she bought and gave JB, Pam Paugh saw the bear on the bed but did not take it, and the keystone cops either did not take the bear in as evidence or they lost it and Steve Thomas thought and accused Pam Paugh of taking it. If Pam did not take it, and BDP did not take it either, who did? Is this the mystery that Tracey is refering to?

Not sure I would take the pageant prize lady's word for this either.

The parts I have highlighted seem to be very strange. Who would have had access to the Bear after LE had arrived and had taken crime scene photos. (It disappeared AFTER the crime scene photos were made.)

Also, If someone exchanged the two outfits, they would have known about the Santa Bear (known the size, etc.)

But, maybe instead of exchanging the outfits, maybe the bears--complete with outfits--were exchanged.

But how? when?

All this makes Tracey's comments about the story behind the Santa Bear being very strange and interesting even more curious.

I'd sure like to get to the bottom of the Santa Bear.

Boy do I agree with that statement, Mame, you and a whole bunch of us.

http://tinyurl.com/odpyk

My concern is if that's really the case why did it show up in the affidavits in the Karr arrest? Maybe the DA's office is really that clueless on the evidence...even the evidence they were directly involved in years ago when Hunter sent out his media plea. Also, I remember the bear being described as old and roughed up. Is that the case? I could well be wrong on that.

If the bear was sourced then I'm personally very wary of the expertise in the Boulder DA's office.

IMO, the "source" of the Bear, being a present from JB's last pageant, is not completely accurate. It's my understanding that the pageant bear was not a Santa Bear (according to Patsy). Am I wrong about this? Is this why there has been some speculation that the bear had been redressed?

>My concern is if that's really the case why did it show up
>in the affidavits in the Karr arrest? Maybe the DA's office
>is really that clueless on the evidence...even the evidence
>they were directly involved in years ago when Hunter sent
>out his media plea. Also, I remember the bear being
>described as old and roughed up. Is that the case? I could
>well be wrong on that.

It's not likely that a pageant gift, only two weeks old, could be old and roughed up (if Mame is correct about this).

>If the bear was sourced then I'm personally very wary of the
>expertise in the Boulder DA's office.

I would doubt the authenticity of the source rather than the expertise in the Boulder DA's office.

In February 1999, Boulder police investigators acknowledged that they had never seized it as evidence, and the Ramseys said that they didn't have it.

So, what happened to it?

Ramseys stayed at the fernie's house for three days-Friday, Saturday and Sunday, from the 26th. to 27th, one day, then the 28th. and 29th. when they left for Atlanta.

They realized at the Fernie's that they needed some clothes so they began to get permission for Pam to enter the house, supervised by BPD.

They stated that on the 28th. they had no clothes to wear and a Department store sent over some clothes for them. By the time of the burial service at Atlanta, they stated that Pam had attempted to bring them "sister socks", the stuffed cat toy but got the wrong one. That means that she had gone into the house later on the 28th. or the 29th, which is probably more likely. However,and this is interesting, Pricilla white did bring Patsy the "sister socks" cat doll at the funeral. Somehow,Patsy says, Priscilla managed to get into the house to fetch it managed to get into the house to fetch it managed to get into the house to fetch it.

I would like to know more about that trip.

Later Pam said there was a prophetic note in the pouch.

I did not know Priscilla might have gone into the home too. Maybe she took the bear? Who has the bear? McReynolds? Whites?

And what happened to everything else in the home after they left? Did they eventually move everything to Atlanta?

Sorry, just questions, no answers.

>... By the time of the burial service at Atlanta, they stated that Pam had >attempted to bring them "sister socks", the stuffed cat toy but got the wrong >one. That means that she had gone into the house later on the 28th. or the 29th, >which is probably more likely. However,and this is interesting, Pricilla white did >bring Patsy the "sister socks" cat doll at the funeral. Somehow,Patsy says, >Priscilla managed to get into the house to fetch it managed to get into the house >to fetch it managed to get into the house to fetch it.~BraveHeart

Mikie and BraveHeart, I think you've brought up some very interesting points.

1) Pam Paugh said she noticed the Bear when she was there on the 28th.

2) She later said there was a prophetic note in the pouch.

3) Priscilla managed to get into the house to fetch the "sister socks" cat doll.

In view of the above, several questions come to mind:

1) What was said in the "prophetic" note?

2) Where is that note now?

3) Since Priscilla managed to get into the house to "fetch" the cat doll, didn't she have opportunity to also "fetch" other items from the house, e.g., the Santa Bear?

The answers to some of these questions might have already been discussed, but if so, I must have missed them. Comments?

Even though the presence of the Santa bear has officially been put to rest by LE stating it was a prize from JBR's pageant, I'm still suspicious about the whole Santa bear thing. In her interview, Patsy remembers the pageant bear differently--dressed as an angel. I think in that same interview, she also says something about a note being attached to the angel bear--maybe this is where the original reporter got the whole idea of a note? Then the bear on the bed goes missing.

The whole Santa bear explanation just has a slightly hollow ring to it IMO--kind of like it was quickly cobbled together to kill the attention to it. I've always halfway suspected something about the Santa bear is one of the pieces of evidence LE has been keeping under wraps.

--pony

Pony, that is exactly what I'm beginning to think...Especially after Tracey made his remark.

Carole McKinley was also one of few that was corresponding with Patricia but kept that entire dialogue under wraps also.

Now, as it turns out, there WAS a rather prophetic note found torn up in JonBenet's wastebasket and it WAS written by Bill McReynolds.

Lots of questions. Was there confusion regarding the note in the wastebasket and the one "found" in the pouch of the Santa Bear?

Is there real evidence regarding the Santa Bear that LE is keeping under wraps, and perhaps Carol McKinley and Pam as well?

Eve, I've read about the note found in JB's wastebasket that was written by Bill McR., however, I didn't know its contents had been revealed. Do you know what it said?

>
>Lots of questions. Was there confusion regarding the note
>in the wastebasket and the one "found" in the pouch of the
>Santa Bear?
>
>Is there real evidence regarding the Santa Bear that LE is
>keeping under wraps, and perhaps Carol McKinley and Pam as
>well?

Can this be what Tracey had reference to when he said there is an extremely interesting, even "strange", story behind the Santa Bear?

I'm only doing this from memory, but it said something like:

"Enjoy your holiday, friend. Somebody loves you."

I don't know if those are the exact words but they are similar and had a sarcastic tone to them.

10 And there is just two
11 different photographs and again these are
12 blowups and they are not very high quality
13 photographs, but sometimes all we have is
14 a videotape record to get these
15 photographs from, so we are trying to take
16 these photos from a videotape. And I will
17 just show you that, these two photos.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: These both the
19 same pretty much, I guess.
20 LOU SMIT: Yes, they are
21 pretty much the same. What do you see in
22 those photographs, Mr. Ramsey?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: I am not really
24 sure. I guess it looks like Christmas, I am not
25 sure. Message that's kind of written in a fancy
0551
1 -- printed in fancy letter style.
2 LOU SMIT: Have you ever seen
3 a letter like that?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: It doesn't look
5 familiar. I can't tell.
6 LOU SMIT: I can tell you
7 that --
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It says
9 somebody loves you all. Merry Christmas.
10 LOU SMIT: I can tell you
11 that these items were found in the trash
12 can in your daughter's room and it was
13 torn up.
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Do you know
15 what the word before "loves" is? Somebody
16 loves you all?
17 LOU SMIT: I am sure that
18 that has been looked at very closely. It
19 appears to be a Santa Claus letter.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: (MULTIPLE
21 SPEAKERS). Friend, enjoy your holidays,
22 Christmas (INAUDIBLE). Well, it doesn't
23 look like anything I have seen before.
24 LOU SMIT: Okay.
25 JOHN RAMSEY: And I don't
0552
1 know what it would be doing, you know,
2 torn up in -- looks like it's torn down
3 here, maybe. On the right side.
4 LOU SMIT: You have no reason or no
5 idea how it may have gotten there?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
7 LOU SMIT: Okay. Again these are
8 two photographs for the camera. Okay. That's
9 all I have for now. And if you think of
10 anything in regards to this, I would appreciate
11 it if you would -- (INAUDIBLE).

0143:
2 Q. In December of 1998, there was a
3 fairly well publicized request from the
4 Boulder Police Department for assistance in
5 identifying and perhaps retrieving a Santa
6 Bear. Do you recall that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Was it your understanding that the
9 bear that was sought was the same bear that
10 you were shown photographs of in 1998 June?
11 A. Yes.

12 Q. The same bear that you were
13 unable to identify?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. We collectively, the prosecution
16 team, received from either Mr. Morgan or Mr.
17 Haddon the bear, the bear. Is that your
18 understanding?

19 A. Yes.
-------------
Then a little later:

21 Q. Mrs. Ramsey, you emphatically
22 denied, in June of 1998, knowledge of that
23 bear. Did you have a change of
24 recollection, following the interviews in
25 1998, as to whether or not you had prior
0145
1 knowledge of that bear?

2 MR. WOOD: Do you know what he
3 is asking you?

4 THE WITNESS: Do I recognize the
5 bear?

6 MR. WOOD: The emphatic part is
7 the only thing that concerns me. I am not
8 denying that it was emphatic, but I think
9 the point is you denied it in June of 1998,
10 and the question I think he is asking you is
11 when you found it, did that jog your
12 recollection that you might remember the
13 bear. Is that what you are asking?

14 MR. LEVIN: That is not quite the
15 question, but it is pretty close.
---------
And later:

8 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Did you look at
9 the bear when it was found by -- what is
10 her name?

11 A. Gene.

12 Q. Gene, or his?

13 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Matthews.

14 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh
15 (affirmative).

16 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You looked at it
17 before it was shipped off to Colorado?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And that didn't ring any bell
20 with you?

21 A. Uh-uh (negative).

22 Q. But you remember getting -- she
23 won a bear at that pageant?

24 A. I thought it was the little white
25 angel bear, but maybe it was, maybe she got
0152
1 that some other time.
---------------------

So. Can we ascertain from this that the Santa bear was found after all? (Even so, it appears Patsy still does not recognize it, and believes the bear JBR got at her last pageant was dressed in an angel costume.) All in all, I still think there's some mystery surrounding the Santa bear.

--pony

I think the "story" Tracey was talking about had nothing to do with the source of the bear but something that happened when the cops were LOOKING for the source. I don't know the story but it seems to me that something was out there - - then they identified the real source.