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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-19-06, 09:43 PM (EST)
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"Where was she killed?"
 
   We know her body was found in the windowless room. The mold and dirt on the floor make it clear there was no scuffle in there, a few very clear footprints, not a lot.

A few feet away, in the hallway, we have the source of the paintbrush handle that was used in the garotte. The small bits of paintbrush found there seem to indicate that is where the brush was broken - and that it possible the garrote was made there. Couple that with the urine that was found there - and most investigators believe THAT is where JonBenet was killed.

My problem with WIKI is that the facts get lost and someone's theory dictates what is posted. Like this on the location of her murder...

From Wiki:

Evidence About Where JBR Was Killed

The conventional wisdom is that JBR was killed somewhere in the basement.
However, Internet poster Bill Salisbury questions why there wasn't blood spatter and wonders whether the killing occurred elsewhere.

Give me a bloody break!!! There was no blood spatter there because she did not have a wound that would "spatter" anywhere! Not from the garrote, not from the blow to her head and not from the vaginal assault.

But the BORG leaders of the Wiki effort won't let that get in their way - - they will maintain a very impressivemisinformation forum - - and, sadly, some others won't do the research - - they will not only believe it but will contribute to it!

That is pathetic.

Sorry guys, cable is in and out here - - forum will be put on protect asap.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Where was she killed? DonBradley 11-19-06 1
     RE: Where was she killed? one_eyed_Jack 11-19-06 2
  RE: Where was she killed? Rainsong 11-20-06 3
     RE: Where was she killed? jamesonadmin 11-21-06 4
         RE: Where was she killed? Rainsong 11-22-06 5
     RE: Where was she killed? Evening2 11-22-06 6
         Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki DonBradley 11-22-06 7
             RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki jamesonadmin 11-22-06 8
                 RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki Rainsong 11-22-06 9
                     RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki Evening2 11-22-06 10
                         RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki Rainsong 11-22-06 11
                             RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki Margoo 11-29-06 12
                                 RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki jamesonadmin 11-30-06 13
                                     RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki Rainsong 12-03-06 14
                                         RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki Margoo 12-05-06 15
                                             RE: Where was she killed? Evening2 12-05-06 16
                                             RE: Where was she killed? Margoo 12-05-06 17
                                             RE: Where was she killed? DonBradley 12-07-06 18

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DonBradley
unregistered user
11-19-06, 09:48 PM (EST)
 
1. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #0
 
   It would be a second blow that would cause cast-off blood splatter.

I would think it is a definitely established point that death took place at the place where the urine was voided. She had terror throughout the ordeal but the involuntary emptying of the bladder was perimortem.


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one_eyed_Jack
Member since 2-22-04
11-19-06, 10:28 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #1
 
   I don't agree with Bill Salisbury about the blood spatter, either. It was a closed head wound. Dr. Meyer didn't even know she had a fractured skull until he peeled back the scalp. HOW is blood supposed to splatter in this circumstance?


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Rainsong
Member since 8-20-06
11-20-06, 10:12 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #0
 
   >We know her body was found in the windowless room. The mold
>and dirt on the floor make it clear there was no scuffle in
>there, a few very clear footprints, not a lot.
>
>A few feet away, in the hallway, we have the source of the
>paintbrush handle that was used in the garotte. The small
>bits of paintbrush found there seem to indicate that is
>where the brush was broken - and that it possible the
>garrote was made there. Couple that with the urine that was
>found there - and most investigators believe THAT is where
>JonBenet was killed.
>
>My problem with WIKI is that the facts get lost and
>someone's theory dictates what is posted. Like this on the
>location of her murder...
>
>From Wiki:
>
>Evidence About Where JBR Was Killed
>
>The conventional wisdom is that JBR was killed somewhere in
>the basement.
>However, Internet poster Bill Salisbury questions why there
>wasn't blood spatter and wonders whether the killing
>occurred elsewhere.

>
>Give me a bloody break!!! There was no blood spatter there
>because she did not have a wound that would "spatter"
>anywhere! Not from the garrote, not from the blow to her
>head and not from the vaginal assault.
>
>But the BORG leaders of the Wiki effort won't let that get
>in their way - - they will maintain a very
>impressivemisinformation forum - - and, sadly, some others
>won't do the research - - they will not only believe it but
>will contribute to it!
>
>That is pathetic.
>
>Sorry guys, cable is in and out here - - forum will be put
>on protect asap.

Sounds to me like a golden opportunity for someone with the facts to go into the wiki and edit for the correct information or at least rebut the info.

The wiki is not perfect. No website can make that claim because they are all created by imperfect humans. What the wiki does have going for it is a look the issues surrounding the investigation from all perspectives. In other words, it is telling the entire story, not just bits and pieces spun by one side or the other.

Rainsong


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-21-06, 10:57 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #3
 
   Early on, I tried to fix the Wiki pages only to find that my corrections disappeared and the misinformation returned. Not only returned but multiplied. At that point, I decided not to waste my time. I have WebbSleuths where the truth IS - - where we discuss the myths - and expose them. Where we discredit the lies, don't encourage them.

If the people who spend time on Wiki want it to be respected, they won't worry about showing all POV - - they will make sure the facts are RIGHT - - let the people interpret those as they see fit - - but make sure they have the FACTS, not misinformation.

Wiki is Miss Marple's baby - - it isn't MY place to go behind her cleaning up. Not when she LIKES it the way it is.

Wiki is NOT a good source for the truth. An interesting resource at times, but not a good reference for serious study.


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Rainsong
Member since 8-20-06
11-22-06, 01:51 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #4
 
   Jameson, I don't know if you are aware of the difference between the wikipedia and the pbwiki that Miss Marple has constructed, but there is a huge difference. Wikipedia is open to anyone who signs up. The pbwiki is only open to those Miss Marple permits with a password. And yes, he does allow opposing views since he is attemptng to provide the whole picture.

Rainsong


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Evening2
Member since 7-7-03
11-22-06, 01:57 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #3
 
   bump - thread won't load


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DonBradley
Member since 9-10-02
11-22-06, 08:12 AM (EST)
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7. "Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #6
 
   Wikipedia is a massive open source project that allows virtually unrestricted editing though does use some restraints on the truly biased. In general its curation base is very broad and that is its saving grace.

MissMarple seems to have a Wiki site with far fewer contributors and therefore the 'curation base' is extremely limited.

Wikis are an interesting way for presenting information and particularly for presenting it in 'groupware' as a situation develops and accuracy is less important than presenting a comprehensive over-view.

But it always come down to a question of curation.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-22-06, 12:33 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #7
 
   Neither site is credible IMO - - I have been to both and seen for myself.


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Rainsong
Member since 8-20-06
11-22-06, 04:17 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #8
 
  
You might be interested in knowing the poster who spoke about "blood spatter" has recanted his statement.

You see, that's the wonderful thing about the JonBenet pbwiki. People can edit the incorrect information to reflect accuracy. Sure, it might be an ongoing battle at the Wiki site since it is open to anyone, but that does not hold true for the pbwiki. Only Miss Marple can authorize contributors and he has tried to be very selective in those he authorizes. I understand the opportunity was presented to you first. With all your case knowledge and documentation, it's a shame not to share it where far more people can see it.

Rainsong


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Evening2
Member since 7-7-03
11-22-06, 04:41 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #9
 
   From what I've been able to gather, Miss Marple rewords the posts he uses as well as other entries for her wiki the way he sees fit. And yes, I have to agree with Jameson on that one, MM is BORG, particularly if you just happen to know who Miss Marple really is.

Best Wishes,
Evening2


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Rainsong
Member since 8-20-06
11-22-06, 05:27 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #10
 
   Miss Marple is Doc Watson and by no means BORG.

Rainsong


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Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
11-29-06, 09:08 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #11
 
   I don't know "who" Evening thinks Miss Marple is, but I know for a fact Miss Marple is NOT BORG and I do happen to know who Miss Marple is.


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jamesonadmin
Member since 5-8-02
11-30-06, 10:51 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #12
 
   I don't know who Miss Marple is - - but I have watched her post and run her wiki - and she isn't NOT BORG, to be sure.

I think you are being duped. Sorry.


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Rainsong
Member since 8-20-06
12-03-06, 02:19 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #13
 
   Miss Marple is not BORG. If Miss Marple was BORG, he wouldn't be so reviled by them. http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7825&page=1

If anything, Miss Marple is a truth-seeker and will go where the evidence leads.

Rainsong


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Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
12-05-06, 03:18 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Wikipedia versus MM's pbWiki"
In response to message #14
 
   >Miss Marple is not BORG. If Miss Marple was BORG, he
>wouldn't be so reviled by them.
>http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7825&page=1
>
>If anything, Miss Marple is a truth-seeker and will go where
>the evidence leads.
>
>Rainsong


I agree. Sometimes I personally believe Miss Marple tries to be too fair with the 'evidence' (especially with the wiki), but I have watched Miss M (under a few hats) "evolve" and become enlightened! Miss M is NOT BORG. I could say a lot more to bring more light on the subject but I won't betray any confidence. Just as Jameson has had to say time and again, 'you're going to have to just trust me'.


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Evening2
Member since 7-7-03
12-05-06, 05:34 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #15
 
   Back to thread topic -

"It would be a second blow that would cause cast-off blood splatter.
I would think it is a definitely established point that death took place at the place where the urine was voided. She had terror throughout the ordeal but the involuntary emptying of the bladder was perimortem. " ~ DonBradley



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Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
12-05-06, 04:11 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #16
 
   LAST EDITED ON 12-05-06 AT 04:13 PM (EST)
 
I agree with you, Jameson, the "wiki" site is - in my opinion - far too generous with speculation SOMETIMES not well grounded in "fact". It seems more appropriate to me to leave the speculative stuff to the discussion boards.

But, it seems, there is a wide discrepancy amongst posters on discussion boards as to what is grounded in "fact" as opposed to sheer speculation and (IMO) there are huge leaps of 'logic' that reach conclusions that are inappropriate (bringing to mind Dave's posts regarding 'thinking gone wrong'). The trouble is, there has been so much "said" on this case, it is getting more and more difficult to determine what is factual.

I guess we are left to our own devices to determine what is reasonable, but the discussion does not always take into account the few certain "facts" that ARE known and it certainly (OFTEN) runs into "thinking gone wrong".

IMO, Miss Marple wanted help with the wiki and got it from sources whose thinking does occasionally go wrong (in my opinion). How does one 'toss' the likes of a DocG theory (for example) when it is insistently presented, picking off case information that supports it? WHO should decide it is not "worthy"? The word THEORY ***should*** provide appropriate perspective, but, unfortunately the public reader seems to overlook that most important word and the term "fact" takes its place.

JMO


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DonBradley
Member since 9-10-02
12-07-06, 09:39 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Where was she killed?"
In response to message #17
 
   Theory versus fact...

Its not just 'theory' versus 'fact'. Its the same way with physical case files. Its hard to wade through all the drek even if its clearly marked 'theory'.

Ten pages of Elvis Presley flying a UFO can be clearly marked 'theory' but one gets a bad opinion wading through it and then encountering a more sensible topic.

Sometimes the minority view does turn out to be the right one, but the UFO view never pans out. Consider the Unabomer case: one FBI agent kept saying its not a well educated technical employee of an airline, its a monk on a mountain top in Montana. He turned out to be right but had been ignored.


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