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  other bio info and old discussion from old Webbsleuths forum
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-18-2017, 05:10 PM - Forum: John Ramsey - biography - No Replies

"John's Bio"
Posted by SpiritRain on Jan-22-00 at 06:15 AM (EST)

Quote: This is from:
John Ramsey was born in Nebraska two years after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. His father, James Dudley Ramsey, was a highly decorated transport pilot in World War II who eventually became director of the Michigan Aeronautics Commission.
He instilled a lifelong love of flying in his eldest son, a quiet, steady youth whose controlled exterior belied his willingness to take risks and an uncanny ability to see beyond the obvious.
In 1957 -- the year Patsy Paugh was born -- 14-year-old John Ramsey moved to Okemos, a tiny town near Lansing, Mich., where he ran cross country, played in the band and chaired the Christmas dance his senior year.
The caption beneath Ramsey's photo in his high school yearbook reads: "Some say he's quiet -- others doubt it.''
"Everything he did demonstrated character,'' said Nancy Turner Lawton, a former classmate who dated Ramsey for several years. "He was just an upright person who had a desire to do things right.
"He had a savings account. He had a plan for his life. I can't tell you how responsible he was at 18.''
John Ramsey followed the same straight and narrow path at Michigan State University in Lansing, where he became president of his fraternity, joined ROTC and met his future wife, Lucinda Lou Pasch.
He became a military pilot, like his father, spending two years in the Phillipines; he earned a master's degree in marketing in 1971, and soon after, accepted a sales job in Atlanta with a California-based electronics engineering company.
But when the company urged him to come West, he refused. It wasn't the obvious decision, one he later credited with making his career.
"That was the turning point for me, back in 1976,'' Ramsey told Computer Reseller News.
It also marked a personal turning point. He and Cindy, now the parents of three children, Elizabeth, Melinda and John, divorced. On Nov. 15, 1980, he married 23-year-old Patricia Ann Paugh at the Peachtree Presbyterian Church in Atlanta.
By that time, Ramsey had formed his own company, Advanced Products Group, selling computer terminals, printers and other items from an office in his basement of his home. Despite the company's high tech mission, neighbor Joe Saportas recalled that Ramsey drove a battered pickup and enjoyed doing construction projects around the house.
Ramsey saw his future in presentation graphics. In 1988, he merged his company with two others to form Access Graphics, based in Boulder. For more than a year, he commuted from Atlanta for his job as vice president of sales. In 1991, Lockheed Martin acquired Access, and Ramsey became Access president.
In five years, he shepherded the company from a $150 million in sales to more than $1 billion, tripling its work force to 560 employees worldwide.
"I would describe him as a visionary leader,'' said Access spokeswoman Laurie Wagner. "He's very good at looking ahead toward where we need to be.''
With his promotion came the family move to Boulder, and a $750,000 brick Tudor in a quiet, upscale neighborhood on 15th Street.
What started me on this was after reading the JonBenet article on Mousey's Susan Smith thread, (http://va.crimelibrary.com/ramsey/ramseymain.htm)I learned that John had been voted businessman of the year. At the time of the murder, "John had just been voted local "businessman of the year.""

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  a quote
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-18-2017, 04:40 PM - Forum: The Cases That Haunt Us: From Jack the Ripper to JonBenét Ramsey - No Replies

JD: I would like to feel comfortable that the case would one day be resolved. However, as many of you know, there was a major contamination at the crime scene when local law enforcement allowed people to freely roam through the house. I will, however, take the position that has been a somewhat controversial position, and that is that I do not believe that the family, John or Patsy or the son, was involved in the death of JonBenét. It is difficult to comprehend that John and Patsy Ramsey -- on Christmas Day, a happy time of the year, planning to go to Michigan the following morning, with their car packed with gifts, out with friends for the evening -- would suddenly return home and kill their daughter, especially in the way that she was killed, i.e., blunt-force trauma to the head, which causes an eight-inch fracture in her skull, coupled with a ligature tightly bound around her neck, as well as sexual assault.

This is from a question and answer Douglas did online - I forget where.

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  Babysitter/ nannies
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 10-18-2017, 04:23 PM - Forum: Housekeepers, workers in the house - No Replies

There was a babysitter/nanny  who was let go after Burke reported being abused/hit by the Nanny.

Im not aware of her name or any information regarding her besides this. Anyone know of anything else to provide?

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  Lynn Wilcox
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-18-2017, 03:48 PM - Forum: Housekeepers, workers in the house - Replies (2)

Reportedly, a housekeeper at Ramsey house, she lost her job after being caught nosing around in some personal papers.  Detective Harmer interviewed her briefly.

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  New document received. Source trusted completely
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-18-2017, 02:41 PM - Forum: Fiber and Hair Evidence - Replies (3)

In JonBenet's right hand there were blue wool fibers that have, to the best of my knowledge, never been sourced.  

In her left hand there were blue-grey fibers (document doesn't say what the material was for those) and black cotton fibers as well as blue cotton fibers.  These fibers are also unidentified.

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  Dale Yeager
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-16-2017, 07:23 PM - Forum: Discredited and discounted witnesses in this case - Replies (9)

Doing business as "Seraph", this man wrote an "expert report" for the BPD that linked Patsy to the ransom note by saying the 118 in the ransom note was a very special number to Patsy.  That was never proven to be true - but it would seem the police figured nothing ventured, nothing gained so they hired Yeager and his team to write a report to (as Dale Yeager later said) "push buttons" in an interrogation.

I contacted Yeager and thought it might be interesting to share his response to me.

 I asked:

>You have reported that you think Patsy Ramsey felt she had to "sacrifice"<BR>
her daughter because she is a "delusional sociopath".  With no history of<BR>
neglect, abuse, or prior violence in the house, considering the dead child's<BR>
siblings say "NO WAY", I would like to ask how you came to this conclusion.<BR>
Have you met the woman?  Visited her prayer group?  These people are NOT a<BR>
cult, they are normal people.  Just would like to know how you figure Patsy<BR>
has to be "delusional" OR a "sociopath".  Did you mean just for the night?<BR>

>Hope you will respond, I am honestly interested in your answer.

He responded

I grew up in a conservative evangelical home in fact my father is a Wesleyan<BR>
[Methodist] minister. I have never stated publicly or privately that the<BR>
Charismatic movement is a cult. If you read the reports carefully you will<BR>
see that I believe that Patsy has been a sociopath for a long time and that<BR>
in her "confused" state after her breast cancer she began to take the<BR>
biblical information she was given - through her involvement with the<BR>
Charismatic movement and mix it with her own delusions of spirituality. She<BR>
is NOT mentally ill. Sociopaths make up a large proportion of the American<BR>
population. They are control freaks who see threats where none exists, they<BR>
assert their opinions aggressively with others and always need to be in<BR>
charge. Low level sociopaths hurt peoples feelings and control others lives<BR>
[codependency], high level sociopaths kill [OJ Simpson].<BR>
By the way physical abuse is not always present in the home of a sociopath.<BR>
Patsy exhibited aggressive and verbally violent episodes to her children and<BR>
Americans in general do not understand how prevalent sociopathic behavior<BR>
is. People with this ilk are dangerous and they come in all shapes and<BR>
sizes. They can be helped if there is early intervention in their lives. The<BR>
problem is that many of them come from families who encourage the behavior.<BR>
Thank you for writing. I hope that this has answered your questions.<BR>
Dale Yeager

I was not satisfied and asked again:

You didn't answer my questions.  Were you asked to report on the 118  only as it related to that bible verse and this crime and were you working with the base supposition that Patsy did this?<BR>
I don't see any evidence that this woman killed  her child, none.  She had opportunity, nothing else is supported by facts.  Are you comfortable testifying against her with the information you have?<BR>
By the way, I think based on your definition of a sociopath, most successful people, and a lot of losers, are sociopaths.  Almost a normal thing.<BR>
Reading the ransom note, you really think she wrote that?  Can we talk about that a bit?  Do you think she wrote it before or after the crime?  And why not use her name, the name of John"s business but say things like She dies, she dies, behead,no Christian burial.  Not distancing, IMO.<BR>
Would like to hear your thoughts.  Written after, would there be no tears on the note.<BR>
And don't people who make religious sacrifices have to admit it?  I mean lying about it is defeating the purpose.  NO?<BR>
Sorry if I sound confused.  I have ICQ and an IM calling.<BR>
Hope to hear back from you and if you will visit a while I will shut down the other programs.<BR>

He answered me one more time:

Sorry I didn't answer your questions.<BR>
1. No I have never spoken to Patsy or her minister, I don't need to. The<BR>
point of profiling is the examination of actions and attitudes to create a<BR>
thought pattern of that individual. Speaking with her would be counter<BR>
productive to the profile. I need only the facts. I started out thinking it<BR>
was a serial killer so I didn't have any pre conceived ideas.<BR>
2. The evidence is complicated and I cannot go into it now because some of<BR>
it has not be made public and I am under agreement not to speak about it.<BR>
The note is absolutely her handwriting [FBI crime lab]. Your problem is that<BR>
you are viewing this case from a compassionate and logical perspective. You<BR>
cannot use logic or kindness when analyzing the behavior of sociopaths. Her<BR>
reasoning is not rational or logical. As far as lying about it, sociopaths<BR>
can separate themselves;eves from the side of them that did the crime. In<BR>
her delusional state she really believes that she didn't commit it.<BR>
Please read "The Gift Of Fear" it will explain this to you. And yes many<BR>
"leaders" and mother in laws are socipathic. :-)<BR>
Thank you for writing.<BR>
Dale Yeager<BR>

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  Cyril Wecht
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-16-2017, 05:17 PM - Forum: John Ramsey sues CBS - Replies (1)


       (Excerpts from 02/26/97)

Dr. CYRIL WECHT (Pathologist): Do I believe it was accidental in the sense that it was not an intent, initially, to kill this girl? Yes, very much so. And with regard to the sexual business, too--chronic, acute--the fact of the matter is there is no evidence of a brutal sexual assault on this girl. It was a careful situation so as not to leave any injuries.

Ms. JERALYN MERRITT (Criminal Defense Attorney): The pediatrician of this child m--met this child many, many times over the last couple of years. He says there was no prior sexual abuse, no evidence of it. And he also says that he would have known it if there was. And he saw this child on a regular basis, and I think we have to give some credence to that because, with all due respect to Dr. Wecht, he hasn't spoken to the pediatrician as far as I know and he hasn't met the child.

(End of excerpts)

RIVERA: The debate on location in Boulder, Colorado, between Dr. Cyril Wecht, on the one hand, the noted forensic pathologist, and two of the local criminal defense attorneys, Jeralyn Merritt and Larry Pozner.

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  Judianne Densen-Gerber (Early BORG)
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-16-2017, 05:04 PM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (1)

       GERALDO RIVERA: That is the haunting voice of the innocent little child who cries out from her grave for justice. But are we any closer to an arrest in the JonBenet Ramsey case? We will talk with several experts whose analysis of the evidence points in a startling direction. Our ongoing investigation of the Ramsey murder poses the question: Did the mother have anything to do with it? Next GERALDO RIVERA SHOW.

(Excerpt from beauty pageant)

RIVERA: It is painful enough to watch the video of JonBenet Ramsey dancing and posing. It is that much harder to listen to this little beauty queen, hear her voice. It seems almost as if she is still around, vibrant and just as adorable as she was when this video was taken.

It has been, ladies and gentlemen, just over three months since her brutal murder. Who did it and what in the world is taking so long to resolve this terrible mystery?

That's the main question we'll be asking over the course of this hour, but our very specific focus is much more narrow. Here's the question: Could it have been her mother? Could Patsy Ramsey have played some terrible role in taking the life of her precious daughter, or at least in covering up the crime?

Today--two exclusives. First, I'd like you to meet an old friend of mine. This is the forensic psychiatrist Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber, but we have known each other for decades.

Dr. JUDIANNE DENSEN-GERBER (JD, MD, Forensic Psychiatrist): Forty years.

RIVERA: Imagine. She is here today with never-before-seen video of little JonBenet. That video Dr. Densen-Gerber has carefully studied, scrutinized and analyzed. You know how I cherish your opinion and--and hold it in such high regard. My first question is having st--I--I tell you what. Before I get specific, give me a general overview of what you have discerned.

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Well, first I'd like to just comment on what you showed because it's the only patriotic beauty contest--child beauty contest singing that. And when I had reviewed about five hours, Geraldo, of the tapes and she sang "God Bless America," and she said, `land of the free,' I said, `The land of the enslaved children.' And my feeling very strong...

RIVERA: And I--land of the enslaved children. Isn't it true?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: And my first reaction is, one, we cry out certainly to catch the person who did--was the perpetrator or who covered up the perpetration. But what about all the other children? I brought you this, which I--first time I've ever seen--from Connecticut which advertises another beauty contest.

RIVERA: Mm-hmm.

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: And I have been talking--I wrote the child pornography and sexploitation laws for Gayle Kil--Kilde all the way back in 1978...

RIVERA: Mm-hmm.

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: ...which passed. We didn't put in beauty contests. We didn't even know about them.

RIVERA: Do you think that these contests, per se, are abuse?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Well, like this they are. The first one I studied was one Birch Bayh asked me to study, which was in Naked City, Indiana, and a very ticklish question, literally, because Indiana was the first state to have nudist camps. And these had children under 15 posing, and anybody who could pay $15 could take as many pictures of them as they wanted. And it took us a while to close it down, but we did. This is pretty much the same kind of thing.

RIVERA: Is there any indication, in terms of that tape, that this child was previously the victim of child abuse?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Oh, definitely, and I think you've shown some of them on prior shows, in that you can't look at these tapes and not see that she has bruises. She has a very big bruise during one time in her antec--what we call the antecubital fossa, the same place people shoot heroin. There's another time where one of her eyes when she's being crowned is barely able to be opened. And furthermore, there is even the fact that she--when she is crowned in one contest, she's disoriented and she can't find her way off the stage, and this is not the first contest. So I think that very much she was sort of in a trance or in a mesmerized state when she did this because, really, she was j--a puppet. She wasn't a--her person--her own person.

RIVERA: Was she the puppet of her mother?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Well, for the shows definitely. There is no question that I think there was a symbiotic relationship between the mother and child. This mother had been Miss West Virginia. I believe her sister was also Miss West Virginia and they didn't make Miss America. And certain people have told me that when this baby was just born the mother said, `This is my future Miss America.' So she was fulfilling a long-term dream of the mother to make it.

RIVERA: Is there any indication in your analysis, as you scrutinize, as you investigate, that the mother could have played any role in this?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Well, there is no reason--let me put it the other way--there's no reason to suspect the father any more than the mother.

RIVERA: What is there, if anything, in what you have analyzed in this case that would indicate any culpability or involvement by the mother, Patsy Ramsey?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Well, the first thing is definitely the bruises, the eye that didn't open, the disorientation at the beauty contest. To the best of my knowledge, the father never went with her. I mean, it was the mother who went with her. So it couldn't be the father at least being the physical abuser of the child. In addition, the 30...

RIVERA: That's interesting. I'd not--I'd not thought that one through, but y--of course, that's logical.

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: ..the 30--the 30 visits to the pediatrician, the mother took her to. What did she go to the pediatrician 30 times in two years for? Looking at the autopsy report, with the chronic and old vaginitis or inflammation, I have to assume that that had to be told sometime to the mother. She must have had a discharge. I mean, she was abused for probably two and a half to three years.

RIVERA: What would have been the motive that night?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: There are many possible motives. Either that the child--which has also been said--did not want to go to the January 5th Las Vegas or--and I've asked for the curriculum...

RIVERA: That would be--What's that?--about...

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Two weeks.

RIVERA: ...two weeks--just under two weeks later, after the homicide.

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: It's under two weeks. Or it could easily have been that the child, in school--and I've asked for the curriculum from that first grade--could have been studying good and bad touching and she could have easily said, `I'm not going to do this anymore,' or `I'm going to tell someone.'

There's another thing which I learned from your associate that you had one of her friends on, and this friend said that Patsy loved her daughter very, very much, but she was always concerned that she go to the bathroom, urinate before--and I think this was on your show--before they went anywhere. Well, it's strange--it's--when you talk `went anywhere'--it's a little sick joke--before she went to heaven, I have to say. The fascinating thing in the autopsy that confused me from the very beginning is she had an empty bladder. So she had to be k--killed within five minutes after she went to the potty.

RIVERA: Meaning what?

Dr. DENSEN-GERBER: Meaning that someone took her to the potty. It wasn't a death throes, death agony. So some--now to me, it's the strangest thing in the world for a perpetrator to take a child to the potty right before you kill the child. In addition, whoever killed the child, I feel, did not have much strength because the blows to the head did not fracture anything. It was a contrecoup concussion.

But second of all, if a man becomes enraged and it's a small child or a woman, he'll just put his hands around her and crack the cricoid. This person had to take long, thin strings, put ligatures--put it around the neck and even take a piece of wood to twist it tight enough to kill her.

In addition, the child appears to have been dragged naked downstairs because she has a--bruises all over her back and her thighs. So I would say, I assume, since the father picked the child up immediately upon seeing her dead in the basement, he would have picked her up. And if you could pick her up, you'd put her in a car and you'd throw her in the woods, if you'd done this thing. So it appears to me the person was not strong enough to pick the child up or take it. That doesn't mean it has to be the mother, but it does mean that it could be the mother just as easily as the father.

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  from John Ramsey v CBS
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-14-2017, 02:33 PM - Forum: Head Injury - No Replies

468. Taken alongside Defendants’ concluding segment, wherein they directly accuse
John of completing the actions necessary to cover-up for Burke, the above statements in context
and in combination support the defamatory gist that John engaged in a criminal cover-up,
including strangling JonBenét while she was still alive.
469. In this segment, Defendants conducted a segment with Spitz that culminated with
a reprehensible, staged demonstration intended to plant in the viewers’ minds the powerful and
incriminating image of Burke killing JonBenét: Spitz commands a ten-year-old boy to, in effect,
pretend he is bludgeoning JonBenét to death by using a flashlight to strike a pig skin skull
covered with a blonde wig.
470. The main proposition of this flashlight segment is lifted directly from Foreign
Faction.  Spitz also suggested that the flashlight was the murder weapon during his original
review of the case in the 1990s.
Page 76 of 113
471. With no direct evidence establishing the murder weapon, Defendants recklessly
state that the murder weapon used to kill JonBenét was the three D-cell Maglite flashlight (the
“Flashlight”) that had been found on the kitchen counter of the Ramsey home. 


Their conclusions:
And you can see how it’s broken.  It’s very similar to the type of break that we saw on JonBenét.  Clemente, Exhibit B, p. 39.
The impact of the demonstration was a convincing confirmation of the association of the flashlight with the injury in the head. . . . There was, in my view, no doubt that this flashlight or one exactly like it caused that injury.  Spitz, Exhibit B, p. 39.  

Later in document:

481. Defendants knowingly and falsely stated that the fracture to JonBenét’s “skull
preserved the appearance, the dimensions of the [Flashlight],” which “fits to perfection.”  
482. The Documentary initially created a misleading and false demonstration with a
flashlight that had Pseudo-Expert Clemente striking a thin wooden board with a flashlight to
allegedly recreate the physical damage to JonBenét’s skull from a blow delivered by the
Flashlight.  The experiment has no scientific validity.  This made-for-TV demonstration was
staged and phony.  In short, Defendants knowingly lied to the viewers by performing a fake
experiment, all with the aim of convincing the viewers that Burke killed his sister with the
Page 78 of 113
483. Defendants then knowingly conducted a second misleading and false
demonstration with a flashlight: only this time a ten-year-old child is instructed to use a
flashlight to strike a purported skull covered by a pigskin and blonde wig. 
484. Defendants knew that their demonstration with the child and a flashlight had no
scientific validity.  
485. Defendants rigged this demonstration in an obvious attempt to recreate the image
in the viewers’ minds of Burke killing JonBenét.  For example, after the boy struck the wigged
skull, the Documentary revealed the damage.  Defendant Clemente falsely proclaimed that the
defect in the skull is “very similar to the type of break that we saw on JonBenét.”  The injury to
JonBenét’s skull was a rectangle with rounded edges, whereas the skull in the Documentary has
a triangular hole. Yet Defendants falsely proclaim, “The demonstration was a convincing
confirmation of the association of the Flashlight with that injury in the head” and there is “no
doubt that this Flashlight or one exactly like it caused that injury.”

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  Spitz info in John v CBS lawsuit
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-14-2017, 02:26 PM - Forum: Burke sues Werner Spitz for $150,000,000.00 - No Replies

a. I believe the family [would not let me in the Ramsey home].  The police had to get permission from them.  They told the police “No dice.  He’s not coming to this house.”  They did not want me in the house.  Maybe, must just be, that I would figure something out that nobody else knows.  Spitz, Exhibit B, p. 32.

Based on what I know - - Spitz was not involved in the Ramsey investigation.  He wanted in and placed a call.  Ramsey lawyers had their own investigators working the case and declined to have Spitz get involved.  Spitz was insulted and angry and his involvement in the CBS show was, IMO, a way to "get back" at the people who didn't jump on his offer.

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