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  Spraguestephens wrote
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 12:36 PM - Forum: Stun Gun - No Replies

Quote:Spraguestephens wrote:

And do you really think he just wouldn't have walked out the front door with his prized possession in his arms? If it's a kidnapping you walk out the front door. If it's a sexual predator you walk out the front door. If it's a f*ck up you get the hell out asap. No psychological profile fits someone walking around the house for 3-4 hours with no fear of being caught. Period. There was no hurry to leave the house at any juncture.

If you get stunned-gunned at anytime, you wail and scream loud. Period.


And I responded:
There was a security system in the house and not easy to tell if it had been activated after the family got home. Safer to go out that broken basement window which was clearly not connected to security system.

JBR was 45 pounds, a hand over her mouth, pressed into her bedding, she would have been silenced.

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  BORG peer pressure
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 12:25 PM - Forum: Answering BORG questions - Replies (1)

I made friends with several reporters on this case - both BORG and IDI. I really didn't have any problem spending time with any of them. It was interesting to sit and debate things, and they enjoyed it as much as I did or they would have kept calling.

It became clear pretty early on that Boulder was a small town and anyone who went against the grain would be shunned by the rest of the group. They weren't greeted at the bookstore, no one joined their table at Pasta Jay's. I know a couple were really hurt. One even rejoined the BORG mob because it was "just too hard". The stories that reporter wrote tended to be a BIT softer, but BORG nonetheless.

Lou Smit was brought in and he said in his interviews, he was told a story that made it clear the family did it -- no footprints in the snow, etc. But when he got into the office and saw the photos - it was clear they lied. Read Thomas' book -- the BORG was so MAD he wouldn't just let it be, keep his mouth shut and let them make a case - any case - against the parents.

Seriously, read Thomas' book -- he admits it -- he was BORG and not about to change his mind.

Enter Peter Boyles with his acid tongue, the man is evil but will tell you, that's show business! Enter Boyles and he would tear apart anyone who disagreed with him, try to embarrass them, get those ratings up. But if you went on and told horrible stories about the Ramseys, you had a friend. Craig Silverman earned my disrespect over and over because he simply didn't care about any of the truth, he was BORG, belonged in the BORG gang and nothing was going to change his mind. His emails and interviews proved that, and I have no respect for him at all now. He should have known better. But he was a man I would NEVER hold up as a good man.

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  Patsy and her violent temper
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 12:19 PM - Forum: Patsy Ramsey - bio - Replies (1)

When Haney was interrogating Patsy, on the third day he got tough and was actually accusing her of the murder. Here is the bit where she supposedly got angry -- and while her words were rough, she sure wasn't at his throat -- we all saw it and know now that story was BORG spin -- put out by the BPD to make the public feel angry towards the parents.

Detective Tom Haney to Patsy Ramsey: "JonBenét got up and somebody in that house - legally,
lawfully, in that house - one of the three of you, also happens to be up or gets up because she makes noise and, there is some discussion, or something happens, there's an accident, somebody........."

Patsy Ramsey: "You're going down the wrong path, buddy."

Detective Tom Haney: "Okay, somebody accidentally or somebody gets upset over bedwetting. That's one of the things that's been proposed, okay?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Didn't happen. If she got up in the night and ran into somebody, it was somebody
there that wasn't supposed to be there. I don't know what transpired after that, whether it was an
accident, intentional, premeditated or what not, but it was not one of her three family members that
were also in that house. Period. End of statement."

I think most people would not be so cordial if they were being accused of a murder they did not commit.

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Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 12:14 PM - Forum: 118 thousand dollar ransom - Replies (7)

The ransom note advised the Ramseys to collect $118,000.00 as a ransom.  Since the Ramseys were worth several million dollars, their business had just been noted in the news as having hit a BILLION dollars in sales in that year, the amount is almost silly.

But the number had to mean something to the killer.

BORG theory has it, and most BORG insist, the 118 was a reference to the bible.  They say that was Patsy's favorite Psalm (though Patsy and John said otherwise).  They say it describes the murder, a religious sacrifice, but I honestly don't see it. 

If it WAS a religious sacrifice, does the BORG really think it would involve a sex assault and ransom note?  I sure do not.

If a religious sacrifice - - - isn't that something a person would WANT "on the record"?  I mean, the blood of an early Jewish sacrifice of a lamb was used to mark the door as a sign to God - and everyone else, right?  What good to kill a sacrifice and blame someone else for the act?  Sorry, just makes no sense.  Patsy wasn't in a cult, the parishoners sacrificed money and time and talent, not their kids.  (And JonBenét wasn't even a first born!)

BORG confuses me when they are so sure Patsy asked for that amount because of some... assinine theory like that one.

118 might be a date, a weight, a house number, the number of miles traveled that day. Only the killer knows for sure.

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  Pineapple - BORG has it wrong
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 12:01 PM - Forum: Pineapple or Fruit Cocktail? - Replies (4)

I had a thread on TOPIX called BORG confuses me.  Since TOPIX has shown their willingness to delete threads with no just cause, I am copying those posts here.

This is from that thread - the subject is how BORG deals with the pineapple question and why I think they are just trying to make the evidence fit their theory.

Post 1 and more in later posts.

They argue over the pineapple. Pineapple was found on the table in the Ramsey dining room. The print evidence would point to Burke getting it out. That would have been in the afternoon. JonBenet could have eaten it just before going to dinner at the Whites'. But the BORG insist the killer (family) fed it to her and kept her alive long enough for it to actually pass THROUGH her stomach to the intestines.


If family fed her that after getting home, there was NO reason to lie about it.

But it takes more than an hour or two to get food past the stomach. I can't believe her killer gave her a few bites of pineapple as he carried her to the basement. Makes no sense.

Try writing that scene in a play, doesn't work. She was tired and would have been fighting and screaming.

If he used the stun gun on her in her bedroom so he could move her quietly to the basement... you really think he'd stop for a snack?

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  Downward Spirals of Silence
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 11:48 AM - Forum: BORG theories and BORG people of note - No Replies

This is a post put on another of my forums by a poster named Machlin.  Wish there were more posters like hir around.  (Hir is a non-gender pronoun, not an error in spelling)

The post:

There is something on Wikipedia labeled as "The Downwards Spiral of Silence" where people will doubt their own opinions if everyone else is silent on one side of an issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silen...

For instance, if you lived in Nazi Germany, and if every last one of a thousand of your friends villifies against Jews, you will decide that you must be crazy to contradict them, and you will finally rail against Jews as well. And your best friend who privately thinks that Jews cannot be all that bad will finally throw in the towel and concede that Jews are bad because she knows that you are wise and that you cannot be wrong. The silence all starts from fear, and people only hear one side of the story and never hear the other side of the issure to gain a more balanced viewpoint, and the downwards spiral of prejudice gets worse.
I remember during the McMartin trials (I lived in that town) no one dared express the opinion that the kids were being bullied and brainwashed into making false accusations. In that silence, that vacuum of information, the public opinion appeared to be unanimous of the McMartin's guilt, which made the silent ones all think that they were alone in their opinions, and thus made them tend to join the majority.

The term "Spiral of Silence" explains this, but there needs to be a term coined for the "Spiral of Injustice" which is related. When ambitious authorities, experts and technicians are under the impression that ALL the other authorities are 100% SURE of a person's guilt, and therefore doubt their own eyes and jump on the bandwagon to validate a consensus opinion or theory.(the nail that sticks up the most gets hammered down). And then this spiral goes around and around like and re-enforces itself.

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  Announcing my death
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 11:43 AM - Forum: Absolutely insane posts - mostly by BORG - Replies (2)

Before it gets lost, let me share a story that announced my likely demise.  I contacted the author and let them know I am still alive and well.  Thanks for caring.  In the end, I could never decide if the reporter was just lazy or fishing for an interview which I declined to give.


In February 1997, a regular visitor to the popular online discussion forum Usenet had reached his limit. All the talk about JonBenét Ramsey, the six-year-old beauty queen recently found dead in her parents’ basement in Colorado, was driving him crazy. “I have been lurking, and occasionally posting, on this news group for over three years,” he wrote. “I am at the point of abandoning it, because it is *very* difficult to locate anything that is not a Ramsey post, and frankly, I am sick of this morbid crime and speculation.”

“It’ll all go away in a month or so,” counseled another.

/////////clip and onto the internet part//////////////////////

The internet was a different place when the case first broke open. The “World Wide Web”, as people quaintly called the internet in 1996, was more or less made up of text. There was no YouTube. There was no Facebook. There was, however, Usenet, a loose and difficult-to-navigate assortment of message boards. And after the JonBenét Ramsey case became a national obsession, curious minds gathered online to try and solve the case themselves, much in the same way as Serial or Making a Murderer. They uploaded documents and traded theories – and contacted authorities with their findings.

It was, in a sense, America’s first crowd-sourced murder mystery.
Within a month of the Ramsey case going public, journalists and law enforcement in Boulder were already saying they’d been inundated by emails from across the world, people hundreds of miles away who were sure they knew who killed JonBenét. By late 1997, USA Today was reporting that there were more than 2,000 webpages dedicated to solving the Ramsey case.

Digital sleuths

Factions formed quickly. Some unequivocally believed in the Ramseys. Others unequivocally believed the Ramseys were guilty. They pored over physical evidence. They constructed elaborate scenarios that fit just about any theory of the crime. Some were convinced that a servant must have been responsible – “the gardener did it.” Others made any number of claims about the Ramseys: their hobbies, their finances, their friends.
They argued, especially, about the ransom note. At two-and-a-half pages, it is believed by criminal justice experts to be the longest ever recorded. Whoever wrote it – the lettering is shaky and awkward – is believed to have been disguising their handwriting. All of the official handwriting experts who have ever opined in the case have excluded John Ramsey as the author of the note; the majority have never been able to link it to Patsy Ramsey, either. This has not stopped anyone from speculating about that on the internet from an armchair handwriting-analysis perspective.

None of it ever solved the case. Even after weeks of poring over old internet postings and webpages, I wasn’t able to locate a single piece of useful evidence that could definitively be said to have originated with internet users. Instead, the internet obsessives caused problems for officials working on the case, and became the the source of some of its more bizarre narratives.

Quote:Take the case of Susan Bennett who went by the alias “Jameson” online. Bennett speculated so prolifically online on the popular Websleuths forum and on pages she herself set up, that she ended up becoming a figure in the case herself. Despite the fact that Bennett was a housewife living in North Carolina with no legal training whatsoever, her prolific online postings established her as an authority in the case. She was quoted in innumerable newspaper articles in the late 1990s and appeared on television. Bennett was the first online amateur sleuth to be given such a prominent platform. (Attempts to reach Bennett, if she is still alive, were unsuccessful. Her website is still up, but her email address is defunct and her common name makes her difficult to locate.)

Three years after the case opened, Bennett appeared on a CBS 48 hours segment about the case to discredit a so-called handwriting expert’s claim that Patsy Ramsey had written the ransom note. It was a curious choice for the television producers to make, given that Bennett herself had no expertise or evidence to counter the findings. She was a civilian, like anyone else who’d followed the Ramsey story – but there she was on national television, presenting herself as an authority. The only difference between Bennett and any other person who’d been closely following the case was that she’d shared her opinions online.

Bennett is just one example. Hundreds of JonBenét case obsessives scoured documents, then developed theories based on any name they came across. Even though their speculations were often deeply far-fetched, they had the power to affect people’s lives, so much so that at least one person took the matter to a court.

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  Other crimes showing psychopaths' abilities and personalities
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 11:18 AM - Forum: THE KILLER - Replies (8)

The point of this thread is to point out other crimes where the killer or killers were brutal, daring.... well, psychopaths.

The question is as follows: "What kind of person kidnapped, tortured, sexually assaulted and murdered JonBenet Ramsey.

Was it your typical loving, protective parent? No. It was someone who had to be in control and enjoyed hurting someone else. Someone who didn't accidentally hurt someone in an instant but someone who considered the crime beforehand, who gathered tools of his trade and looked forward to the violent act. Someone who took his time hurting this child before ending her life.

There have been other killers like him -- and this is a thread for them.

Jessica Lunsford was 9 years old, lived with her father and grandparents in a trailer. You wouldn't think anyone would be daring enough to go into a trailer with 3 adults in it to kidnap a child capable of fighting back. But that is just what John Couey did.

He had a history of child molestation, was not supposed to be in that trailer park had failed to keep up with local authorities --- and had relatives willing to lie for him.

Consider how many chances this man took.

He snuck into the trailer where he knew there were three other adults -- took a nine year old from her bed at 3 am, told her to be quiet and follow him. She did.

He then brought her into a trailer he was sharing with his relatives. He raped her, had her spend time in his bed until he shut her in a closet - again with orders to keep quiet --- and she complied!

He kept her alive for at least three days - fed her, raped her repeatedly, went to work, returned home and raped heer again -- all while search teams were looking for Jessica in the neighborhood.

Finally he decided to kill her and buried her alive with her favorite stuffed dolphin. Not miles away but close to the trailers they called home.

What kind of person DOES that?

A psychopath. A man on a mission who was going to let nothing get in his way.

(Couey died in September of 2009 of natural causes.)

This is the kind of person we are looking for in the Ramsey case - someone who saws JonBenet, made a plan and followed through on it. It may not have gone as planned - in fact, I am sure it did not. But that doesn't change the profile of the person who would do this.

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  The papers
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-09-2017, 11:42 AM - Forum: The Bonita Papers - Replies (13)

The Bonita Papers

Melody Stanton awake abruptly from a deep sleep - the prior stillness of the Boulder night has been pierced by the harrowing scream of a child. She assumed it was somewhere between midnight and 2:00 a.m., but didn’t look at the alarm clock. The scream lasted three to five seconds and stopped as abruptly as it started. Melody momentarily wondered what to do, but thought that surely the parents would hear and come to the child’s rescue. Although still bothered by the scream and the thought that a child had been injured, Melody eventually went back to sleep.

The public image of Boulder, Colorado has constantly changed during the last few decades. Once surrounded by farmland and frequently invaded by the local wild habitat of deer and elk, it has always been a small town by most standards and even now only boasts a population of 96,000. The western end of town slopes upward to meet the climb to the Rocky Mountain National Forest pathway to the winter recreation for which Colorado is famous. As home of the University of Colorado, Boulder had the Visage Of a quiet college community with the expected hippy populace and seasonal traffic found in university towns. But anonymity began to fade when it was chosen as the setting for the 1970s sit com Mork & Mindy that launched Robin Williams into fame. This t.v. comedy about a young college co ed and her alien roommate helped create a new facade for Boulder a town inhabited by young progressives.

New industry began to claim Boulder as its home major health food and herbal remedy manufacturers were abundant; Celestial Seasonings, an herbal tea conglomerate which offered the health conscious an alternative to caffeine beverages, became a synonym for the town. High tech computer oriented businesses were also coming in vogue. Affluence had begun to overtake the formerly low profile farming community.

With its new urban portrayal, the town soon caught the attention, of freshly graduated, soon to be professionals as the quintessential place to live, raise a family and partake in the year round recreational opportunities afforded by Colorado It had smog free air, a panorama of mountains, an almost nonexistent crime rate, and yet was only a 45 minute drive to Denver where many of these young professionals were embarking upon their careers. With its new yuppy population and collegiate atmosphere, the last decade saw Boulder become a forerunner for cities dedicated to healthy lifestyles. It was one of the first towns to pass ordinances against smoking in any Public facility, including restaurants and bars. The town hosts the internationally known Bolder Boulder a 10 k run which has been equated with the Boston Marathon. Bicycle and jogging paths wander everywhere throughout the city, and rock climbing, mountain hiking and skiing facilities are within a few minutes drive from downtown.

But this utopian image of healthy lifestyles and an upwardly mobile population was beginning to tarnish due to a rising crime rate and the antics of the rebelling youth of the University of Colorado. The University had grown to 20,000 students, with increasing enrollment each year. C.U.'s Buffalos had become a highly ranked college football team playing in annual college bowls. Public attention from these sporting events created interest from graduating high school seniors throughout the United States.

Local newspaper headlines began to depict a town with a large out-of control university student population. Riots, illegal bonfires and alcohol related arrests were becoming the norm. In spite of the rampant increase of student related crimes, Boulder has managed to escape the escalating statistics for violent crimes impacting other cities across the nation. There was only one homicide in Boulder in 1996 the murder of JonBenet Ramsey on Christmas night.

John Bennett Ramsey was born on December 7, 1943, the first of two sons, to James ("Jay") and Mary Bennett Ramsey in Omaha, Nebraska. His brother, Jeffrey, was born five years later. A former Air Force pilot and decorated World War II veteran, Jay worked as a flight instructor in several private schools after leaving the military. Shortly after Kin's birth, Jay was appointed as the Director of the Nebraska Department of Aeronautics. In 1957 Jay left his home state of Nebraska and
this job to move his family to Okemos, Michigan, not far from Lansing, were he eventually became head of the Michigan Aeronautics Commission. It was rumored that during his career in Michigan he was twice considered for appointment as head of the Federal Aviation Administration once during President Kennedy's term in office and again after the election of Richard Nixon. But neither opportunity was ever offered to Jay, and he remained as Director of Michigan's Aeronautics Commission for 22 years until his retirement in 1979. Jay Ramsey had a reputation both in his professional and in his personal life of being reserved and authoritarian traits he would pass on to his eldest son.

The Ramsey sons were raised in a home environment dominated by their father that stressed responsibility and achievement. By all accounts John seemed to live up to his parents' expectations. There was a remarkable physical resemblance between John and his father, and John inherited many of his father's personality characteristics as well. Even in his teenage years John was considered intelligent, ambitious, focused and. above all, a very private person.

John's growing years were spent in Okemos and he graduated from Okemos High School. He was on the high school track team his freshman year, but that was the extent of his sports ambitions. John's interests leaned toward academic and leadership roles, and he was a member of the school's honor society. John did display some musical interest and played in the high school band fox two years. He was a very popular student throughout his school years many of his friends still fondly remember the private flights they shared with John in planes piloted by his father.

John enrolled at Lansing's Michigan State University after graduating from high school. He became president of the Theti Chi fraternity and joined the Reserve Officers Training Corps. In 1966, John graduated with a degree in electrical engineering.

While in college he met his first wife, Lucinda von Pasch, also a student at Michigan State, and they were married in July, 1966 after graduation. Seen after their marriage, John enlisted with the U. S. Navy and was accepted into the Officer Candidate School in Rhode Island after completing officer training, he was transferred to California and eventually to the Philippines for two years of active duty at the Subic Bay Training Center. While John was stationed at SBTC he received his pilot's wing". He continued to move up in the ranks of the military, and his record if filled with numerous commendations for his performance and character. John was noted as an outstanding officer, highly intelligent and well respected by his fellow officers. In 1971, John left active duty and went on reserve status in older to return to Michigan State to obtain his master's degree in marketing.

John's and Lucinda's first child, Elizabeth, was born on July 15, 1969, and on November 14, 1971, the second daughter, Melinda, was born. John moved his growing family to Atlanta, Georgia in 1973 where John started his career path in the computer industry. There his first son, John Andrew was born on July 24, 1976.

Soon after the arrival of the third child, the marriage began to unravel, and the Ramseys were divorced in 1978. Then a family of middle income means, Lucinda was awarded $800 a month in spousal and child support, the family station wagon, the modest family home and custody of the three children. It appeared that the divorce was cordial, and John and Lucinda remained on friendly terms. The children maintained a close relationship with their father and usually spent the weekends with him.

John admits that contributing to the marital problems was an affair he had with a secretary at his company in the late 1970s. Although this was the only affair John would admit to during either of his marriages, other women would eventually confirm that they too had had sexual relationships with John.

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  2 books
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-09-2017, 11:01 AM - Forum: Dr. Henry Lee - Replies (2)

  1. Two books citing Henry Lee as author - Henry C. Lee and Jerry Labriola. Famous Crimes Revisited: From Sacco-Vanzetti to OJ Simpson.   2001
 - reported by Internet readers as being neutral, not pointing to anyone as the killer.

BUT - just a few years later, there is another book, another chapter and this one is listed online as being BORG - the parents were involved.

Cracking More Cases: The Forensic Science of Solving Crimes   2004

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