Welcome, Guest
You have to register before you can post on our site.



Search Forums

(Advanced Search)

Forum Statistics
» Members: 7
» Latest member: PeterSherri
» Forum threads: 1,716
» Forum posts: 5,451

Full Statistics

Online Users
There are currently 40 online users.
» 0 Member(s) | 40 Guest(s)

Latest Threads
DiscoveryPlus (Arrow Pro...
Forum: 2021
Last Post: jameson245
01-07-2021, 01:11 PM
» Replies: 0
» Views: 79
BODE tested this nightgow...
Forum: Barbie nightgown
Last Post: jameson245
12-29-2020, 01:30 PM
» Replies: 1
» Views: 155
Forum: The House at 755 15th Street, Boulder, CO
Last Post: jameson245
12-21-2020, 05:53 PM
» Replies: 1
» Views: 160
Forum: The House at 755 15th Street, Boulder, CO
Last Post: jameson245
12-21-2020, 05:39 PM
» Replies: 0
» Views: 84
Paul Hidalgo - artist?
Forum: Names to remember
Last Post: jameson245
12-19-2020, 04:17 PM
» Replies: 5
» Views: 3,283
Police can enter unlocked...
Forum: Boulder crimes
Last Post: jameson245
12-17-2020, 11:48 AM
» Replies: 0
» Views: 203
Suzanne Savage
Forum: Housekeepers, workers in the house
Last Post: jameson245
12-12-2020, 05:27 PM
» Replies: 6
» Views: 6,800
Fleet White - 12/29/1996
Forum: December 26th
Last Post: jameson245
12-12-2020, 01:48 PM
» Replies: 0
» Views: 160
later that day
Forum: December 26th
Last Post: jameson245
12-08-2020, 01:18 PM
» Replies: 4
» Views: 1,312
Pat Brown
Forum: Names to remember
Last Post: jameson245
12-06-2020, 01:32 PM
» Replies: 0
» Views: 183

  Her first interview with BPD
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-22-2017, 05:29 PM - Forum: Nancy Krebs - No Replies



TO. Commander Joe Pelle
District Attorney's Office

FROM. Det. Tom Trujillo

DATE. 2/22/00


RE. P96-21871

PRESENT. A. Det. Tom Trujillo
B. Det. Chuck Heidel
C. Lee Hill
D. Nancy Krebs
E. Alex Hunter

(Tape 1 of 3 tape interview.)

C. (inaudible) the same generation even though 3 years older

D. (inaudible) you were quick

C. That's (inaudible) baby book

D. (inaudible)

C. About your but I think that my focus um initially (inaudible) clarify the context (inaudible) subjected here to control (inaudible) dominance, subjugation. and abuse-(inaudible) participating. continuous participating and then uh

B. (inaudible) before we start, here's my card

C. Thank you very much (inaudible)

B. Tom's on his way over

C. Thank you when he gets here we'll walk you through that I mean !(inaudible)

B. Okay no that's fine) that's fine, actually I'll be following Tom's lead but what I would like to do on this while we're waiting here I can get some preliminary information from you


Nancy, your name and date of birth and all that stuff

D. Okay

B. It is Nancy right

D. Uh-huh

B. Okay, do you have a middle name Nancy

D. Jo J O

B. J 0, okay

D. And my last name is Krebs K R E B S

B. K R E E


B. B S Krebs okay, and your birthday

D. 4/25/62

B. How tall are you and how much do you weigh

D. Uh about 5'5"

B. Okay

D. And I weigh last time 142

B. 142

C. That's okay

B. Brown hair and

D. I have blue eyes

B. And what's your current address

D. Uh in California

P96-21871 3

B. Uh

C. Yes

B. Why don't you give me all the addresses where you can be contacted

D. Okay

B. If that's what we need


B. Okay

C. (inaudible)

A. Tom Trujillo


B. okay I'm just getting some preliminary information

C. Nancy Krebs, Det. Tom Trujillo

D. Hi

A. Nancy how you doing

D. Fine

B. (inaudible ) -..

D. Uh-huh

B. And that in

D. Los Osos

C. Los Osos, okay

D. Right

C. Capital O

B. Right

P.9G-21B71 4

C. The first one

B. Los Osos

D. Uh-huh

B. Osos okay and what’s the uh zip code


B. Okay and a phone number

D. Um-

B. XXXX okay there was another address

D. Just through office

(Recording went dead at this point.)

B. Huh, aw well it's (inaudible) of technology

A. Okay~ this is for the recording here um. what you've shown me so far is is copies of your baby book and some photographs including photos of Fleet White Sr. and then some photographs of Fleet White Jr.'s children

D. Yeah and there should

A. Connect

D. Be a…actual… a picture of Fleet White

C. (inaudible)

D. At his wedding.

A. Okay, and where did these photographs come from, I mean the ones (inaudible) obviously but where did these other photographs come from

D. From my grandma’s um photo album

A. Okay and that's still out in California

D. Yeah

P96-21871 5

A. Okay~ now this photo, there's a video of these photographs is that correct is that what this is

C. None none of these videos of other family photographs and correspondence

D. Oh there it is

A. Okay okay so this is Fleet White Jr’s wedding picture

D. Uh-huh

A. Okay, you can pull that one out, and who were the people again that photograph hard to see um kind of from left to right who's this female in the white shirt

D. Let me see

A. A white dress

D. Can I look at it

A. Sure

D. It's a little bit hard, that's uh Nyla

A. Okay, which would be Fleet White's

D. Mother

A. Okay

D. Fleet White Jr., his wife Priscilla, his father

A. Okay

D. And his sister Loni

A. Okay, and the original photograph is out in California

D. Right

A. Okay, so I need to pull this out, if you don't mind

B. For the record that was from a page 20 from a

P96-2187l 6

C. Fax

B. From a fax right

D. Uh-huh

B. Is that what that was from

A. Okay so

D. And this is uh this is a horrible picture (inaudible) uh the quality of it but this is a picture of Fleet White Jr. and Fleet and that's a picture of little Fleet

A. Okay so this is Fleet White Jr ., one who is currently in Boulder

D. Right

A. And his son

D. Right

A. Okay, and that's on page (inaudible) hard to tell 16

B. Looks like page 16 from the fax copy from

A. And then these other photographs uh the other pages of photographs um one's not numbered uh but these are all family photographs of Fleet White's…Fleet White Jr's children, where were these taken at

D. Um

A. Have any idea

D. Well it it says right here, it's written on there that this is before they moved to Colorado

A. Okay

D. And that they were 5 and 3 1/2 years old

A. Okay

D. And that they were taken at a children's museum in Tennessee

A. Okay, very good, that kind of that way I can go back and try to figure out what's what as far


as all these photos go, okay, and then you have this greetings from Fleet and Nyla that would be Fleet White Sr.

D. Right ,

A. And his wife and who are the two children in there

D. Uh Fleet White I guess, he's really Fleet White III

A. Okay

D. And Daphne

A. Got it and that was taken in Aspen in 1997

D. Right

A. Okay

D. Was sent,

A. So on the video tape is another photograph

D. Uh-huh

A. Is that right, okay, um so I guess I guess there's some sort of a connection between you and the White families. Fleet White Sr., Fleet White Jr., I understand that, uh let's start kinda back in the beginning it's probably the easiest way i

D. Okay, can we read this forst

A. Sure

D. I think (inaudible)

A. What what

D. Um

A. What is this


D. It's a it's a letter to my grandmother

A. Uh-huh

D. From uh Nyla White

A. Okay

D. And I think it has some significance because it talks about how uh they would spend Christmases with my mom

A. Uh-huh

D. And my grandmother (Very long pause) (50 sec pause)

A. And Gordon is

D. It's my grandpa that passed away

(Long pause) (20 sec pause)

A. I'm. it talks about Fleet and Loni, would be Fleet White Jr.

D. Uh-huh

A. Okay

(Long pause) (25 sec pause)

D. (inaudible). when will she (inaudible) communication

C. Huh

D. (inaudible)

C. (inaudible)

A. Okay, that's fine (inaudible) ~ so let's start back let's (inaudible) start back as far as you can first remember um your family and the White's family being together, when was that

D. Probably when I was about 3 years old

P96-21871 ! 9

A. Okay, so the White's have been um friends of your parents, grandparents

D. Both

A. For many, many years

D. Yes

A. Okay, um where did you guys live at that time

D. Where did I live

A. Yeah where did you live

D. I lived in Buena Park

A. Okay, and Fleet White Sr. was good friends with your grandfather, is that correct

D. And my grandma

A. And your grandma

D. Both

A. Okay, and where did the Fleet White Sr. live at that time

D. In Hunt, not Hunt, in Long Beach

A. Long Beach okay

D. Uh-huh !

A. Um kinda kinda bring me up to date just a little bit um you know how you kept in touch With the White family, that sort of thing and then talk about go into a little bit more detail if you would (inaudible) kind kind of tell me throughout the years you know I mean have you kept in touch with the Whites, have you have you communicated with the Whites I mean obviously there's communications from 1997 uh but kinda start back from when you first remember and go forward and kinda give me an idea of… of a your contacts with the Whites

D. And like …

A. Just general contacts

D. Well that's really hard to do because I would say that my contacts weren’t 'general contacts

P96-21871 10

with them

A. Okay, um I mean did you cause it talks about it a little bit um Christmas time, that sort of thing, let's start there um I mean I understand there's some other things some subtle things goin' on in this letter but kinda generally and how often would the Whites visit you guys, your grandparents, your parents that sort of thing .

D. Very often

A. Okay, daily, weekly

D. Uh I would say at holidays

A. Okay

D. Christmas, Easter um and uh birthdays, like my grandpa's birthday or my grandma's birthday or

A. Okay so

D. Fleet Senior's birthday or Nyla's birthday

A. Okay so generally and and let's talk about, let's break the families up into… there's too many Fleets here

C. Uh-huh

A. I want let's let's break the family up into Fleet White Sr. um and Nyla corrrect

D. Uh uh-huh

A. Um they would visit your folks or your grandparents

D. My grandparents

A. Okay so Fleet White Sr. and Nyla would visit your grandparents on on the average, the major holidays throughout the years is that what you're saying um Christmas, Easter, and birthdays

D. Birthdays uh-huh

A. Okay any any other times that

D. I'm sure there were other times but I don't know exact dates it would be real hard for me to give exact dates from that point or


A. That's fine that's fine, um when did Fleet White Jr. start comin' into the.picture

D. Well he was always in the picture

A. Right as, what I mean is he's comin' over with Fleet White Sr., when did Fleet White Jr. um I mean is he (inaudible) is he good friends with your grandparents or good friends with your parents both

D. Both

A. Okay okay um kinda as a time reference here, when when did the assaults start, actually who who started the assaults, Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr., the assaults on you

D. Uh Fleet, on me

A. Uh-huh

D. Fleet White Sr.

A. Okay, kinda as a reference, time reference, when do you first remember those starting

D. Around the age of 3 but closer to 4

A. Okay 3 to 4 years old

D. Oh-huh

A. Okay, and where would those occur at

D. Um sometimes at my grandparent's house

A. Okay

D. Oh sometimes at different locations

A. Okay, when they occurred at your grandparent's house, is that over one of these holiday type weekend type things

D. Uh-huh

A. Um that the Whites would be present at

D. Yes

P96-21871 12

A. Okay um, who all was present, 1 mean during those holidays obviously Fleet White Sr. and Nyla uh Fleet White Jr., any other children present

D. Loni

A. Okay, and Loni is

D. Fleet White's sister

A. Okay and who else

D. Uh myself

A. Uh-huh

D. And um my sister would have only been about a year old

A. Okay, were all the children involved in the assaults or was it just you so specifically was Loni there um was your little sister involved

D. At a year and a half, I don't remember

A. Uh-huh

D. Her being there doing anything to my sister at that time

A. Okay

D. Um but Fleet, I don't remember anything with Loni either

A. Okay

D. But I do remember things with uh Fleet White Jr.

A. Okay um

D. Who woulda been about 15 or 16 years old

A. Okay was Fleet White Jr. the victim of these assaults, or was he a suspect in the assaults, Was he a perpetrator when when you can first remember the assaults when he was pressent

D. I think that he was made to do things to me

A. Okay


D. So I don't know if you want to call that a perpetrator or

A. Okay, he was one of the actors in the assaults

D. Uh-huh

A. Okay um Loni wasn't involved in this that .you can remember

D. I mean she coulda been in a different place

A. Okay

D. Having things done to her

A. Okay, um and you started going through time um start movin' forward, do you ever remember your sis your sister, younger sister bein' involved or being the victim of these assaults

D. Yes

A. Okay

D. Uh-huh

A. When's the first recollection that that occurred

D. Uh...probably when I was about 6 years old

D. Uh 10 old, your sister's a year and a half younger than you

A. Okay uh

D. Uh-huh

A. Okay and what's your sister's name

D. XXXX last name now.






A. And where's XXXX livin' right now

D. Germany

A. How come she's out in Germany

D. Uh she transferred

A. She

D. From Arvada to Germany

A. Arvada Arvada, Colorado

D. Yeah

A. Oh she was a local person

D. For a while

A. Okay is she in the military or anything

D. She's a civilian but works for the military

A. With the military

D. Uh-huh

A. Which branch of government is she in


A. Okay.; how old is she right now

D. 35

A. Okay, I want to come back to XXXX in just a little bit, so the first time you kinda remember um XXXX also being a victim of these sex assaults, cause when you were 6 that made XXX about 4 and 1/2

D. Uh-huh

A. That right, and where was that at again kinda generally which


D. Well I (inaudible) I uh

A. (inaudible) occurred

D. I would say probably my grandparent's house

A. Okay, did anything ever occur at your mom and dad's house

D. Yes, uh-huh

A. Okay, tell me about, let's start with some of the things that may

D. Can

A. Have occurred at mom and dad's, go ahead

D. Can I say something cause

A. Sure

D. I have to do this, um and this is really important um my grandfather

A. Uh-huh

D. Died on his birthday February 6, 1966

A. Okay

D. And the Whites were attending a party and uh what I remember about that is that my grandpa was trying to protect me

A. Uh-huh

D. And that Fleet Sr. and my grandpa were in a screaming match, yelling and screaming at each other and my grandpa had a massive heart attack

A. Okay, and this is fact

D. And died and that's really important

A. This was at his birthday, your grandpa's birthday

D. Uh-huh


A. Okay, who

D. And I just, I remember an argument happening and I don't remember what was being said cause I was only, I was almost 4 years old then

A. Uh-huh

D. And I remember my grandpa grabbin his chest and falling to the ground

A. Okay, I'm sorry, do you remember what the argument was about

D. No

A. Just that they were screaming

D. Something about…that they were screaming that Fleet had got out he was tryin' to tough me or something and my grandpa just got really upset

A. Uh-huh

D. For some reason and they had a screaming match

A. Okay and this is Fleet Sr.

D. Right

A. Okay, um did you talk to your grandma about this at all, who else have you talked to about all these assaults

D. I haven't talked to my grandmother about that

A. Okay, uh have you talked to your mom or dad about either one of these, and of the assaults or anything

D. About any of the assaults, a lot of times there where there so I wouldn't have to talk to them about it

A. Okay and I guess that's what's (inaudible) I'm not understanding a 100% so your mom and dad were present in the room during the assaults…or they were just there in the house during the assaults

D. My mom


A. Does that make sense

D. Yeah. well they were often present during the assaults

A. Okay so your mom and dad both knew about what was occurring

D. Yes

A. Okay um and they knew, what was occurring to both you and your sister

D. Yes

A. Okay, were they a part of this

D. Yes

A. Okay. how were they a part of the assaults

D. Well they let them happen

A. Okay. um did your did your father physically assault you at all

D. Yeah

A. Sexually assault you

D. (inaudible) things about my dad

A. Okay, um

D. Wrapping me up in blankets. keeping the blankets really tight so I couldn't get out of it

A. Okay

D. Um I can remember being whipped belts. and I would uh pee in my bed or something like that

A. Okay so were your mom and dad, the assaults, were they limited to the kind of physical assault type thing. physical and mental assaults um or did they also include sexual assaults

D. They also included sexual assaults

A (inaudible)


D. And uh my mom…was that she would actually sometimes take me to places and witness things that have happened to me

A. Okay what do you mean take you to places

D. Like- take me over to the Whites

A. Okay

D. Or the there were other locations that they would take me to

A. Okay okay so your mom was physically active in actually kind of giving you to the Whites is that what I'm hearing

D. Right

A. Okay, and this is this started with Fleet White Sr.

D. Yes

A. When did Fleet White Jr. get involved other than when he was kind of a participant at 16 um when did he kinda physically take over become involved in this

D. When he was doing it willingly is that what

A. Yeah

D. You're asking me

A. Yeah .

D.………….need to think

A. Okay

D. And probably when I was around 7 ~ 8 years old

A. Okay, that's when he kinda became an active participant on his own as it were

D. Uh-huh, uh~huh

A. Okay, um when's your birthday

D. 4/25


A. 62

D. 62

A. Okay, uh

D. And Fleet White is 50 years old

A. Okay, so he's about

D. 13

A. 12 years older than you. 13 years older than you

D. Uh-huh

A. Okay um let me let me back up for just a second, we talked about Fleet White Sr. and we talked about Fleet White Jr. um and unfortunately let's define assaults I do you remember were they kind of a fondling. touching type of an assault or did they go beyond that

D. No they went beyond that

A. Okay for both Fleet White Sr. and Jr.

D. Yes

A. Okay, um. tell me how far they went beyond that is it um

D. Penetration and

A. Okay, like digital penetration with their fingers

D. No penetration with their penises

A. Okay. um vaginally

D. Yes

A. What about anally

D. Yeah

A. Okay so penetration both orifices


D. Uh-huh

A. Okay, what about oral sex

D. Oral copulation

A. Okay um where they made you un they placed their penis into you into your mouth, that sort of thing

D. Uh-huh

A. Okay and we're talkin' about both Fleet Sr. and Jr. doing this

D. Yeah

A. Okay uh when was the last time this occurred ,

D. Last time?

A. Uh, the most recent

D. The last time that I can remember Fleet White Sr. was when uh he came to my grandparents house in Cayucos

A. Cayucos, where's that

D. It's in California I

A. Okay

D. And it's about 5 miles from my home

A. Okay and when was that

D. Um, can I look

A. Sure anything that will help you

B. While you're at it, how do you spell Cayucos


A. Okay


D. The ninth of August 1980

A. Okay, and what's what are we looking here

D. That's uh the will of my grandfather

A. Uh-huh

D. And um it's um Fleet White’s signature as a witness and Nyla White. as a witness too

A. Okay and this is in it's hard to read the date 19…

D. 80

A. August 1980

D. Uh-huh

B. (inaudible)

A. Is that, that's supposed to be an 80

D. I think it

A. 19

D. Actually I think it should be a 90

A. 1990

D. Yeah

A. Okay and this is when Fleet White Jr. and his mom

D. No this is Fleet White Sr.

A. Okay this is Fleet White Sr., so the last sex assault that occurred to you by Fleet White Sr. .was back in August of 1990

D. Right

A. Is that right trying to get some of these straight and that’s after this photo it’s kind of a two page photocopy that rolls over, it's a it's supposed to be a legal size document Lee (inaudible )


C. (inaudible) I just received it on a fax machine and I assume it's the standard (inaudible)

A. (inaudible)

C. (inaudible) will

A. Okay, um when is the last time that Fleet White Jr. um was a suspect, when was the last time he did any type of sexual assault on you

D. Uh the best that I can remember it would have

A. We want you to .remember

D. Okay, it would had of been between uh 1976 and 1978

A. Okay, and where would that have occurred at

D. In Trona, California, Trona T R O N A

A. Okay, uh so '76 to '78…um…the kind there's there's kind of a big skip, I mean Fleet White Jr. stops in '78, um Senior doesn't stop until '90, were you around Fleet white Jr. between '78 and '90, have you been around him at all

D. I've seen him

A. Okay seen him like I mean like on TV or seen him personally

D. No in a more in a more casual setting at my aunt and uncle's house in Bakersfield

A. Okay, when was the last time you saw Fleet White Jr. in Bakersfield or saw at all

D. Uh woulda been in probably around in the .8O's mid mid 8Os

A. Okay um that's kind of a casual you just got kind of a casual atmosphere

D. Uh-huh

A. Uh

D. Where Fleet and Priscilla had come to visit my uh uncle

A. Okay


D. And Aunt in Bakersfield

A. But there wasn't any type of assault on you at that time

D. No

A. Okay um ...any reason why Fleet White Jr. stopped the assaults back in '78 I guess (inaudible)

D. We1l..."um I think because it……it had gotten to a point where I was being abused so much that um people were noticing things where I was going to school

A. Uh-huh

D. And they reported that there was some child abuse going on

A. Okay

D. And at that point in time I went to uh sex investigation and then later uh they went to a preliminary hearing and then the person um pleaded no contest to statutory rape and sodomy

A. Okay um we just pulled out a photograph of a person in Inyo County

D. Inyo

A. I N Y O County um Independence, California is that right

D. Right

A. Okay let's, who who's who's this a photograph of

D. Mackey Boykin


D. Well he spelled it different ways

A. Okay


A. Okay...,Boykin


D. Uh-huh BOYKIN

A. Okay and when was this when was this booking photo taken

D. In '80

A. 1980

D. I think it says one or is that 81

A. It's hard to okay '80, '81 something like that; now how does how does Mackie fit into all this; who's Mackie

D. Mackie was uh my stepfather's brother

A. Okay

D. But not at the time that this was going on, he was my mom, when she was married to my dad

A. Uh-huh

D. Had several men that would come over to our house and Mackie's brother Mackie's sister Lived down the street from us in Buena Park

A. Okay, let let me back up just a little, what's your mom's name

D. Gwen

A. Got that G W


A. E N and Boykin


A. What's your real father's name

D. Don

A. Last. name

D. Krebs (inaudible) yeah

Print this item

  On Peter Boyles
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-14-2017, 06:08 PM - Forum: Stephen Miles - No Replies

Peter Boyles Show - Wednesday, October 7, 1998

Peter Boyles transcript  10/7/1998

PB: Since this tragedy has begun, this is the 3rd mayor, 2nd chief of police, 2nd city manager. Maybe we can call Carol McKinley--I think Thurs is scheduled GJ day. What has happened inside Boulder since this began is very reflective. Stephen, why are you suing John Ramsey
PB: Because you believe John gave you up?
SM: All the comments were attributed to John--including the Enquirer---of course now they're saying different
PB: You get called into your neighbor's home one afternoon ---How far do you live from Ramsey home?
SM: It's 5 short blocks
PB: One afternoon, your neighbor said to come over to your house. What happened
SM: A gentleman there introduced himself from Enquirer---said "I'm pleased to meet you, I'm sorry to tell you ---our investigators have found that the Ram camp are intending to target you as a suspect in the killing of their daughter. We believe they're doing this to take attention away from themselves. Then they asked me questions like, why would they do that, and did I know them
PB: Did you know them?
SM: No
PB: How did the Enquirer get your name from John Ramsey?
SM: He said to me that our people said that John Ramsey intend to target you--at that point, my neighbor said to me, 'trust me, this is a real situation'
PB: How did you feel?
SM: I felt very cold and clammy--I'm sure I loked very pale at the time...and my God..

PB: : Sueing John Ramsey-- Stephen lived in the neighborhood of the Rams and was given up. Stephen, you know you're not the only one--there have been at least 6 that John has decided to attempt to make them the target. Lee, I know you're a good attorney. You gotta believe Fleet and Priscilla White? Can you talk about these things? My point is that Stephen certainly isn't the only one.

LH; A lot of people have been accused, I can only talk about Stephen. He wakes up one morning and his face is on the tabloids across the nation--and the articles continue about that. I have to say JR's attorneys insist he had nothing to do with this. This leaves us in position that we have to find everything we can to see where they came from.

PB: : Enquirer says 'our sources are good' Who did reporter say was his source?

SM; He wouldn't name him--said 'one of our investigators' that they're indeed very thorough.

LH; With Stephen, as near as we can determine, it's associated with an arrest made in '75---he has a reputation for art--someone told PD that it was pornographic---there was a party, PD came in--they seized some 2,000 photos and arrested him for pornography---after looking at all pictures etc--they determined that he hadn't taken any pornographic pictures. All those charges related to exploiting a child--were dismissed.

PB: : But someone knew that had happened?

LH: Absolutely. The dissolution of the case was the minor charge was Stephen buying alcoholic for a minor--all the other charges were dropped.

PB: : Do you believe that operating in Boulder were private investigators working for Rams were the ones that found this info on Stephen and gave it to someone who gave it to the Enquirer?

LH: It's possible. Haddon's office maintains nobody with that firm had anything to do with this story

PB: : Today there's no one left standing for the Rams, except Stines who left town. What's the chance that someone knew the story....

LH: There's so many possibilities---but we're trying. Stephen and his whole family have been casualties---putting blame on innocent people. We're determined to clear Stephen's name and the only way is to follow this

PB: : If Enquirer won't give up source, what are you going to do?

LH We're very hopeful that we will uncover the truth

PB: : What will be interesting is will what was done to me be done to the Enquirer? I want to see how a judge would treat Enquirer reporter. If they threaten them with jail, I would be a very surprised sob. I want to see JR or Enquirer hit for $20,000----so when is this going to happen?

LH: Thursday we have a big motion---we have a trial date set for February, but it's likely it will be continued

PB: : Will be interesting to me--about giving up sources--to see if there's equal justice . What's your bet on this

SM: There are a lot of uncanny similarities. I hate to take joy in your adversity here--but it's a real interesting course courts taken

PB: : All I want is to see the Rams treated as I was treated.. If there's such a thing as a shield law--I'd like to see it--it wasn't there for me. I've been hit for $44,000 total and never even had a trial. Let's do a little compare and contrast. Now you buys walk in there and let's see if they drop $44,000 on the Enquirer.

PB: (now he corrected it) I go way back, and have talked to Lee Hill, back when he was running for city council. Your platform was largely the R case.

LH: The platform was broader than that. Changes have been affected, so people were listening. There's a new interaction and mobilization.

PB: The is the third mayor, second chief of police, etc. What has happened in the city is amazing, and in the middle of this comes your client. Why are you suing the Enquirer?

LH: The headline on the NE attributed all of the remarks to the Ramsey camp.

PB: You get called into your neighbor's house. How far do you live from the R home?

SM: About five blocks.

PB: You go to the next door neighbor's home...

SM: A guy introduced himself as from the NE, (microphone trouble?) Our investigators have determined that the R camp are intending to target you.

PB: Had you ever met the R's?

SM: No, but my next door neighbor had.

PB: They were friends.

SM: Our invest. have determined that JR intends to target you. My neighbor said, trust me, this is a serious deal here.

PB: How did you feel?

SM: I felt cold and clammy...

PB: Suing JR, the attorney is Lee Hill. Stephen was given up, and your're not the only one, but you're the first one to sue him. You've got to believe, Priscilla White, Fleet White...

LH: Bear in mind the scale. SM wakes up one morning, and his picture is across the country accusing him of being a child murderer. JR's attorneys deny he had anything to do with it (my fingers are really slow today)

PB: Who did (David?) name as his source?

SM: He said they have a good team.

PB: Why do you think JR gave you up?

LH: With SM, this seems to have to do with the photograph of the 17 year-old. Someone must have called the police with this info. All of those charges having to do with the porn charges have been dismissed. The resolution of the case was not a big headline item.

PB: Operating in Boulder were private investigators working with the R camp. Do you think they found this out and bootlegged this info into the Haddon offices? What are the chances of some Boulder citizen, who knew the R's...

LH: We're determined to get to the bottom of this. Deflection of blame on innocent people.

PB: If the NE won't give up the source...

LH: We'll be checking other sources...

PB: What has been done to me, will it be done to the NE and JR? One of the reasons I have you here today, if they go after the NE, and threaten jail.

LH: I was going to ask you for briefs (as to your situation) We have a trial date set for next year.

PB: I want to see what they do on the other side of this. What's your bet as to how this will be handled?

LH: I almost take joy in your situation.

PB: That's ok. I just want to see how it's going to work on the other side.

LH: We want SM's name cleared.

PB: I was found guilty without a trial. $44 thousand and change. When you boys walk in there...

(man, my fingers are fumbling this morning...very glad Pan is there to get most of what is being said)

Interesting no mention of Judith Phillips by name. She is referred to as a friend and neighbor.

8. "cont"
Posted by Byron on 06:56:00 10/07/98

PB: Because the NE published...how did they get your photo that was on the cover?

SM: My next door neighbor is a photographer also. When she came over she said she needed a photo, and on the last shot, she asked me to clasp my hands behind my head.

PB: Do you think your neighbor give you up on this?

SM: No. LH: She has social relationship with the NE. PB: What was the text? LH: The text said JR intended to deflect attention from himself if he was indicted. PB: You want to talk to JR... LH: Yes, and PR, and anyone who has info on the case. PB: What do you think is going to happen? LH: We hope we can present to a jury. PB: I have a prediction, you won't get past... SM: It's how much justice can you afford... LH: It's one of the biggest lawfirms in the country. SM is impovershed, as is the lawyer PB: One of the reasons I asked these guys to be here, is they need help. Anyone in the audience who would like to help. LH: Basically, I don't want to pass the hat.We were fortunate enough to meet with the cybersleuths, I understand you did too, and they expressed an interest in helping. Phone is 303-449-9244. Lee Hill PO Box 21181 Boulder, Colo 80308. We appreciate the cybersleuth's help on the internet as well.

PB: For me it's a fascinating lawsuit to watch.

LH; This hearing is Thursday afternoon.

PB: And you'll be with us Friday morning to let us know what happened?

LH: Yes

(The neighbor was Judith Phillips and the reporter John South.   I understand they were veery close friends, Phillips and South.)

Print this item

  On Dave Lucas Radio show
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-14-2017, 05:40 PM - Forum: Judith Phillips - No Replies

The Dave Lucas Radio Show
April 3, 1999
Partial Transcript - Judith Phillips

[Image: colorbar.gif]


Dave Lucas: From the Internet we have Brenda on the line calling from North Carolina, right Brenda?

Brenda: That's right

Dave Lucas: Okay and she's got some questions for you Judith

Judith Phillips: Okay

Brenda: Yes, um, Judith, I would like to know why you sold the pictures you sold of JonBenet to the tabloids?

Judith Phillips: Um, I explained this on Larry King live before.

Brenda: I don't get CNN

Judith Phillips: Oh you don't

Brenda: No, so that's why I would like to know. It bothers me that you did that.

Judith Phillips: Well that's your opinion

Brenda: I mean it's kind of like the Linda Tripp of Boulder.

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda. I mean that's the way I see it

Judith Phillips: Well your entitled to your opinion and I have the photographs and I kept them secure in a safe for many many months because I was afraid somebody would break into my house and steal them.

Brenda: Ah eh.

Judith Phillips: And I had many many people at that particular time approaching me, ah, about the photographs that I was……

Brenda: See I would have admired you if you had kept them till it was all over and then done something with them but I think the time that they were released was sort of a disgusting thing to do. You know I was just wondering why you did it.

Judith Phillips: Well because, um, at that particular point I was approached, I was, I had several friends from the publication that approached me

Brenda: I mean was it for the money? Is that why you did it?

Judith Phillips: No it was not

Brenda: Okay

Judith Phillips: Because I had been um, constantly hounded by people who wanted to see my photographs and my photographs were quite different than what most people had seen before and I was not equipped nor did I want to be able to a photography agency to handle all those requests so the publication said they would do that for me.

Brenda: Did you offer it to the Ramsey's first?

Judith Phillips: Did I offer?

Brenda: The pictures

Judith Phillips: No I did not.

Brenda: Did you offer it to their family?

Judith Phillips: No, I did not

Brenda: You just took it on your own to put them in a tabloid, is that right?

Judith Phillips: Well I owned the pictures

Brenda: Yeah I know, I am aware of that

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda: I mean I was just asking the question. They weren't aware that you were going to do this with the pictures?

Judith Phillips: I don't know, I can't answer that

Dave Lucas: Judith, are there any other photographs that did not get released?

Brenda: (can't make out first part) I mean she could pick up a few hundred dollars you know

Judith Phillips: Well ah, are you finished now?

Brenda: Yeah, I was listening to you honey

Judith Phillips: Okay, well I think I am finished talking to you too.

Brenda: Okay, thanks

Dave Lucas: Okay, well thanks for your call.

End of transcript…………..

Print this item

  Atlanta confrontation
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 12:14 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (7)

From Westword

Several accounts of the trip to Atlanta have claimed that there was a "blow-up" between Fleet White and John Ramsey; some have even hinted that the meltdown had something to do with JonBenét's murder. The Ramseys' own account, in their book The Death of Innocence, doesn't go that far. But it does portray the Whites as unduly agitated, and Fleet's behavior, in particular, as erratic, "unreasonable" and vaguely threatening.
The Whites' version of what happened -- supported, to a significant degree, by contemporaneous notes and conversations with detectives -- is quite different. There was no blow-up, they insist, just a somewhat testy conversation between Fleet and Westmoreland, who took him aside and told him to "back off." The Ramseys had lawyers, private investigators and a crisis-management firm to look after them now, Westmoreland explained, and they were planning on staying in Atlanta.
"I got really pissed," Fleet says. "I said, 'You do that, and it's not going to go anybody's way.' And I told Priscilla, 'We've got to get out of here and go talk to John.'"

The Whites visited with Jeff Ramsey, John's brother, then tracked John down at the home of Patsy's parents, Don and Nedra Paugh. The conversation was passionate but hardly menacing, the Whites say. "We just laid out a case for John about why he needed to go back to Boulder," Fleet recalls. "I told him, 'What you do in the next 24 hours is going to define the rest of your life. You need to talk to the cops. Patsy needs to talk to the cops. We all need to do that and find out what happened to JonBenét.'"
Ramsey listened calmly, leaving the room a couple of times to take phone calls. The Whites assumed he was speaking with his attorneys. Patsy was nowhere to be seen. At one point John returned and announced that he was going to offer a $50,000 reward for information about his daughter's death.
"You're going to sound like O.J.," Priscilla said.
By the end of the session, Ramsey was assuring the Whites that he and Patsy would return to Boulder. Far from being incensed, the Ramseys invited the couple to brunch at the Paughs' on New Year's Day. The Whites arrived and learned that John and Patsy were scheduled to appear on CNN later that day. Priscilla helped Patsy, who was still heavily medicated, get ready for her close-up, urging her to not to wear her diamond ring and mink coat. John Ramsey would later claim that it was Fleet White's idea for the parents to appear on national television and defend themselves; Fleet denies it, saying he was intent on getting the Ramseys to cooperate with the police. Priscilla remembers the two men sitting together on a couch that morning, talking earnestly and holding hands for several minutes before the Whites left for the airport.
That was the last conversation of any substance the Whites ever had with John and Patsy Ramsey. Fleet saw them once at church after they returned -- there are conflicting versions of that meeting, too -- but that was it. The Whites had been exiled from the inner circle.

Print this item

Bug Odd to say the least
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 11:58 AM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (2)

OK, so reviewing some news stories and opinion pieces, it was reported Priscilla White didn't think the pageants were a good idea so she gave Patsy a copy of this book.

My question - no questions - would be...
Why was Priscilla reading a book on troublesome teenage daughters when her daughter was all of 6?
Why would she think this was an appropriate gift for Patsy?  I jmean, I know Patsy had older step-children but they were good kids, there were no problems there.

I just think it very odd.

SURVIVING OPHELIA: Mothers Share Their Wisdom in Navigating the Tumultuous Teenage Years
Cheryl Dellasega, Author
[Image: w204.jpg]
If there were any doubt that Mary Pipher's 1994 bestseller Reviving Ophelia spawned a virtual cottage industry about teenage girls at risk, the latest Ophelia-related title by psychologist Dellasega (a clinician at Penn State's College of Medicine) lays it to rest. The book follows close on the heels of Ophelia's Mom (Forecasts, June 25), Nina Shandler's response to her daughter Sara's 1999 bestseller, Ophelia Speaks. Both Dellasega and Shandler have chosen to use Sara Shandler's approach and collect various essays, but while Nina Shandler structured each chapter of her book around specific problems, such as drugs or school, Dellasega chooses a more sprawling, conversational approach. Her chapters discuss the types of responses that out-of-control daughters elicit in their mothers, from special mother-daughter moments to explosive anger and regret. Despite the uneven quality of the selections (they range from thoughtful to clichéd), they share a raw immediacy that may help other moms. In fact, Dellasega credits some of the pieces with giving her the courage to send her daughter, Ellen, to a "wilderness program" to overcome anorexia. Like the mother who penned the excerpt "Tears from a Rose," the contributors are women who have tried to do their best, even when that wasn't always enough. "What happens when you do everything as right as you can, and it all goes wrong?" she questions. Interwoven throughout are Dellasega's ongoing concerns about Ellen, now 17. While it's obvious that the author wrote the book to overcome her struggles with her own teenager, there are lessons here that will help every mother dealing with an adolescent daughter.

Print this item

  Paul Hidalgo - artist?
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 10:42 AM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (5)

Artist regrets Ramsey mural
By Mary George
Denver Post Staff Writer

March 13 - Paul Hidalgo, the University of Colorado art student whose mural juxtaposing JonBenet Ramsey with the words "Daddy's little hooker" sparked an uproar, was having plenty of second thoughts Wednesday evening. "This was a fiasco," the 21-year-old senior said after spending the day stonewalling reporters' questions, then seeing himself portrayed unfavorably on television news, receiving a threatening phone call, being notified he has violated copyright law and facing possible legal challenges because of his display. "This really makes me question the media and what they go for," he said. "I was the perfect story.'' The story took shape Wednesday when reporters - from local outlets to national tabloid TV - discovered his display on two, 25-foot expanses of lime green wall in the Sibell Wolle fine arts building. On the first wall, foot-high block letters stenciled in dark blue declare "Daddy's little hooker" over three copies of the glamour photo of JonBenet that Newsweek ran on its cover in January. On the far wall, in 4-foot-high letters, is stenciled the word "look" to the right of an arrow pointing back to the first wall. JonBenet, a 6-year-old beauty queen, was found murdered 11 weeks ago today in her Boulder home. Her killing remains under investigation. She was strangled, sexually assaulted and her skull was fractured. Hidalgo finished setting up the mural at 2 a.m. Monday in space routinely used for short-term student displays. Twice - on Monday and again Wednesday - someone tore down the photos. Shortly after noon Wednesday, news and broadcast photographers and reporters filled the hallway. Hidalgo had told them to be there at 12:30 p.m., when he'd replace the photos. When asked at that time what it meant, he gave a stock reply: "My art speaks for itself.'' But after hearing what others thought played across the television screen, Hidalgo decided to try to end the speculation. He created the mural to air his opinion that "the people involved in this case are definitely tied to the crime committed," and to protest child pageantry, he said Wednesday evening. "I think exposing young and impressionable children to this institution (of pageantry) is a terrible act," he said. Earlier in the day, Merrill Lessley, interim chairman of the fine arts department, called the display "hurtful" but defended Hidalgo's right to express himself.Art student Sarah Pace said: "People have every right to say what they want - the tabloids do it. This is a reflection of what our society is all about.'' And associate professor of art history Vernon Minor called the display "unsophisticated, sensationalist, mean. . . . It stinks as a work of art, except for the fact that it got attention.'' By evening, Hidalgo was saying, "I'm going to be really glad when this is all over. I learned a lot about myself and I'm maybe questioning what my real ambitions are. I'd always thought I would like a public life, but I'm not sure I'm fit for it.

Print this item

  Tal Jones
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-09-2017, 02:10 PM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (1)

Posted long ago (years) by BIZ

There is another story I just thought of that I would like to bring to
 everyones attention. Tom Miller was married to Judith Phillips, a former 
wife of the Ramsey's friend Gary Phillips. He and Patsy worked together in Atlanta and 
they reconnected in Boulder since both had moved there. 
 From what I know Gary and Judith divorced, he moved to Boulder. Judith later followed him to Boulder,
 then Judith hooked up with a slime ball lawyer named Thomas Cecil
 "Doc" Miller. Doc Miller had some connection to the sale of the ransom
 note the tabloids along with Richard Talfryn "Tal" Jones aka Sprague.
 Tal is a step brother to Gwen Boykin the godaughter of Fleet Senior
 that I mentioned earlier. Tal worked for Doc Miller  as a paralegal or
 something. So did a lady by the name of Pamela Hadas. I spoke with
 Pamela Hadas for about an hour on the phone one day and she had alot
 to say, most of it was backed up by court records I later researched.
 Pamela told me that the day after the murder Tal Jones came to the
 office and told Doc that he had just spoke to Fleet White and he told
 him in confidence that Burke was the killer. Pamela said that same day
 that Doc Miller and Tal had gotten in to a physical fight in the
 office and Doc put a knife to Tal's throat. She didn't know what the
 arguement was about but she and other employees were able to break it
 up. Mary Suma didn't think that Tal knew Fleet at this point but
 Pamela claimed they did. Tal has often been described by Lou and Mary
 as Fleet's henchmen. He circulated the internet forums trying to waive
 public opinion. At one point he even
 tried to intervene with the grand jury proceedings. So it appears to
 me that  either Fleet started this rumor about Burke or Tal Jones did.
 I have to wonder why? Burke was a 9 year old child. What were they
 thinking? Were they trying to drive attention away from someone else?
 Alyce Christoff, Gwen's mother said after the murder that she wouldn't
 be surprised if Tal had something to do with it. He has always been on
 mine and Mary's list of suspects for that reason. Nancy Krebs also
 mentioned him in her deposition.
 From everything I researched Doc was a real slime ball. Pamela Hadas
 was his former high school teacher. She is a literary scholar and
 poet. They ran in to one another near Boulder and he told her that he
 wanted to learn poetry. He then hired her to work in his office as a
 legal aid. Pamela had lent him a substantial amount of money at one
 point. He was later able to commit her to a mental ward for a period
 of time, put her house in to his name, and transfer all of her money
 to himself. She was eventually able to get out of the mental ward and
 file a lawsuit against him. The jury wanted to award her far more than
 the court would allow. However, she never received a dime from Doc
 Miller. He put his house in Judith's name, she sold it and Dr. Pamela
 Hadas got nothing.(see attached court document)  I found the woman to
 be perfectly sane and stable when I spoke to her.  I found this is a
 strategy Doc Miller has done to others. If I recall correctly he has
 had at least one or two of his employees put in to mental wards, he
 also had one of his clients put in to a mental ward. His parents were
 threatening to sue him for doing nothing in their son's case after
 taking a huge amount of money. How can so many people around him all
 be crazy?  In any case he does not appear to be a very good person.

Print this item

  Mervin Pugh
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-03-2017, 03:11 PM - Forum: Housekeepers, workers in the house - No Replies

He needs his own thread.

Reviewing investigator notes I find he worked in the Ramsey house around Thanksgiving of 1996.  Worked on tiles in Patsy's bathroom and on the cabinet doors in the kids' playroom on the second floor.  He never got to the broken window in the basement.    Tina was with him at least part of the time he was there.

Later Linda and her family removed Christmas trees and other decorations from the basement, some from the windowless room (LHP's claim not to know about that room was wrong.)

Print this item

  Pry marks on door
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-02-2017, 07:20 PM - Forum: Intruder evidence - Replies (6)

Recently came to possess a detailed description list for all BPD case images.  

Interesting to learn a few new things.  One is that police found the door to the sun room had pry marks around the dead bolt.  I don't believe I ever heard that mentioned before. The pry mark is described as "fresh" and one inch long.

If I have forgotten that, please feel free to remind me where it was made public.  I don't believe it was.

Print this item

  Pineapple in bowl
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-02-2017, 07:04 PM - Forum: Pineapple or Fruit Cocktail? - Replies (9)

OK, I am in possession of a detailed description of all the photos the BPD took.  It is VERY detailed and most interesting.

Some posters are under the impression (and I don't know where they got it from) that there was milk in the bowl with the pineapple.   Truth is, the bowl had pineapple in it - and ... well, I will share two descriptions of two photos.
Both photos were taken on 12/29 by Officer Yamaguchi.

"#416 - This depicts, at a different angle, the bowl of pineapple on the kitchen table.  The solver spoon, which appears to be somewhat tarnished, remains in the bowl.  The bowl is nearly completely full of what appears to be chunks of pineapple.  Some of the pineapple is much more yellow in color than other chunks.  In the foreground of this photograph is a pear-shaped candle, the place mat on the furthest east side of the gloss top table, the Kleenex box and the gingerbred house."

"#417 - This is a close up of the bowl of pineapple which shows the spoon still in it.  This larger serving type spoon is silver and is ornately decorated with a pattern on top.  Inside the bowl is a large amount of pineapple. This bowl may also contain milk, although it is difficult to tell since the bowl is also white.  The bowl may be a serving bowl, although it is possible that it is a breakfast bowl.  It is difficult to gain perspective of its size.  The pineapple depicted in this bowl appears to be browning from exposure to the air."

Print this item