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  Geraldine Vodicka's daughter
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-19-2017, 08:05 PM - Forum: Names to remember - No Replies

Lorraine Florence Lawrence
Died December 4, 1996
What some believed to be strange circumstances
Her mother, Geraldine Vodicka was a former Ramsey housekeeper



CHAIN OF EVENTS 1996


Quote:1996-12-05: BODY FOUND AT BOULDER WORK SITE

DAILY CAMERA
BODY FOUND AT BOULDER WORK SITE
Thursday, December 5, 1996
Section: MAIN
Edition: FIRST
Page: 1A
By ALLI KRUPSKI Camera Staff Writer
Caption: PHOTO:
By Crissy Pascual Daily Camera

CRIME SCENE: Police investigate the site where a construction worker found the body of a 37-year-old Boulder woman.

As her grieving mother and sister watched Wednesday morning, authorities removed the body of a 37-year-old Boulder woman from a construction site ditch close to her apartment near the North Boulder Recreation Center.

A Twin Peaks Excavating foreman discovered the body of Lorraine Florence Lawrence face down in the hole near the Boulder Housing Authority's apartment complex in the 3100 block of Broadway about 7:50 a.m. Wednesday, Boulder police said.

"We are treating it as a suspicious death," said city spokesman Kelvin McNeill. "It appears that the hole was properly covered and access to it was limited."

Police would not comment on the condition of the body or possible suspects. The Boulder County coroner's office planned to conduct an autopsy today.

Workers had covered the 6-foot hole with two pieces of plywood and two heavy buckets Tuesday night.

"We had it secured, so nobody could lift the plywood. It was safe so nobody could fall in, and there was equipment parked around it," said J.D. Lemmel, who found the body.

"When I got there this morning, the plywood was broken. And when I looked in, she was only in panties and a T-shirt," Lemmel said.

Lemmel notified police, who said they found a trail of blood leading from the apartment building to the hole, as well as a broken beer bottle near the scene. Investigators removed the body about 1 p.m. as runners and recreation center users stopped and stared.

Two murders occurred in Boulder in 1995, and as of July none had taken place in the city this year, McNeill said.

Geraldine Vodicka, Lawrence's mother, said her daughter "had epilepsy, but I don't think that's why she's dead today. I think someone killed her."

Dominique Vodicka, Lawrence's sister who moved into the North Boulder apartment complex three months ago, said: "A neighbor saw her last night at 9 p.m. sitting on the ice in her underwear, with a black eye and blood dripping from her eye and there was a ... guy walking near her. (The neighbor) made her go inside, but he never called us."

The neighbor should have informed the family, said Jonathan Smith, a family friend.

"If it looked like she had been punched or hit, and if he had called us or the police, she would be alive today," Smith said."She wouldn't have hurt a fly, and she didn't deserve to die."

Family members said they will remember Lawrence's gentle disposition. The mother of a 9-year-old son, Chad, and the oldest of five children, Lawrence had worked as a bagger at Safeway at 2798 Arapahoe Ave. for the past four years, Geraldine Vodicka said.

"Lorraine liked reading and taking long walks," her mother said, noting that Lawrence had lived in the complex for roughly nine years. "She was just a sweet person who never bothered anybody or fought with anyone."

But Lawrence had encountered violence in the past several years, according to records from the Boulder County Sheriff's Department. Records show she reported an assault in May 1990, a domestic dispute in January 1991 and saw a friend harass her sister, Elaine Romero, in October 1996.

Neighbors said they occasionally heard Lawrence argue with friends, but did not notice any unusual noise Tuesday night. Some residents, however, said they heard a car speeding away during the evening.

Irving Tejeda, who lives in the apartment next to Lawrence's, said he noticed her "wide open" front door at 7 a.m. Wednesday. "The lights were out, and it was cold," he said.

Staff writer Margie McAllister contributed to this report.


Quote:1996-12-20: CORONER: EXPOSURE KILLED WOMAN - BODY WAS FOUND IN DITCH DEC. 4

DAILY CAMERA
CORONER: EXPOSURE KILLED WOMAN
BODY WAS FOUND IN DITCH DEC. 4; POLICE INVESTIGATION CONTINUING
Friday, December 20, 1996
Section: TODAY
Edition: FIRST
Page: 1B
By ALLI KRUPSKI Camera Staff Writer

The Boulder County coroner's office ruled Thursday that a 37-year-old woman found dead in a construction site hole near her apartment died of exposure to the cold as the result of seizure disorder complications.

But Boulder police continue to investigate the death of Lorraine Florence Lawrence.

"We need to check on foot and hand prints on some items," said police Sgt. Tom Wickman.

A Twin Peaks Excavating foreman discovered Lawrence's body about 7:50 a.m. Dec. 4 face down in a 6-foot ditch at the Boulder Housing Authority's apartment complex in the 3100 block of Broadway. "She was only in panties and a T-shirt, but we had the hole properly secured," said J.D. Lemmel, who found the body. "We put cones around it, and when I got there in the morning, the plywood was broken," he said.

Workers covered the hole Dec. 3 with two sheets of particle board and two heavy tractor buckets, police said.

"People who have seizures are known to be in a state of confusion following a seizure. We believe that she was in that state and was wandering around the complex," said Dan Pruett, a medical investigator with the coroner's office. "At some point, she fell into the construction hole, where she was exposed to the cold."

Neighbors heard a scream and a thump between 1 and 2 a.m. Dec. 4, said Detective Ron Gosage.

Some residents said they noticed a man and a woman arguing and a car speeding away during the evening.

About 11 p.m., a resident saw Lawrence sitting outside on ice in her underwear with blood dripping from a cut above her right eye. The neighbor escorted Lawrence back to her apartment.

Police would not comment on a pool of blood and a broken beer bottle on ice found in the parking lot about 20 yards from the hole. Investigators also located blood inside Lawrence's apartment and skid marks outside the complex.

"There are a lot of things present, but nothing that links them together," said Cmdr. John Eller, noting that at one point 15 detectives worked on the case. "There is no outward evidence of any criminal act. We may never know the answer to exactly what happened."

Residents, however, said Lawrence walked around in her panties in front of the North Boulder Recreation Center on Oct. 6 and again nine days before she died, Wickman said.

"It shows a pattern of behavior," he said. Police plan to test the particle board for weight tolerance levels, he added.

"I don't know if she was heavy enough to have fallen in," said Geraldine Vodicka, Lawrence's mother. "I don't know what to think about what happened or how long she could have been in there."

Coroner's officials do not know how long Lawrence remained in the ditch.

"She was either too confused to get out or couldn't get out," Pruett said.

Medical investigators did not find evidence of sexual assault or alcohol, Pruett said. Lawrence, however, had injested cocaine and an anti-convulsant drug, Phenytoin, sometime before her death, he said.

"We don't know how much or when she took it," Pruett said. "She wasn't wearing a lot of clothing, and she could just have easily have died if the hole wasn't there."

The coroner's conclusions, however, did not reassure some residents of the apartment complex.

"There are just too many unanswered questions," said Christine Gomez, who has lived in the complex for six months. "Until they get answered, I don't know if I'll feel safe here again."

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1997


Quote:1997-01-10: A tale of two victims: questions surround handling of two deaths

A tale of two victims: questions surround handling of two deaths
By ELLIOT ZARET
Camera Staff Writer
Friday, January 10, 1997

John and Patsy Ramsey's daughter died in Boulder two weeks ago. She was found strangled and molested - with duct tape over her mouth and her skull fractured - in the basement of her parents' 15-room Tudor home. Tight-lipped police have spared nothing in t heir meticulous search for the killer or killers of the beautiful little girl - the youngest daughter of a wealthy corporate executive and a former beauty queen.

Geraldine Vodicka's daughter also died in Boulder in December. She was found nearly naked with her face bloodied and beaten, face-down in a construction ditch near the low-income housing project where she lived. The coroner ruled the death of the epil eptic grocery bagger - who was reported to have been an alcoholic - accidental. Police continue investigating, although Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby says he concurs with the coroner.

Boulder police say the murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was the only homicide in 1996. Others aren't so sure.

Some neighbors and friends of 37-year-old Lorraine Florence Lawrence, who died Dec. 4, said they don't believe the assessment that she died of exposure in a hole at a construction site near a Boulder Housing Authority apartment complex. They believe L awrence was killed.

Comparing how police handled the two cases, they said, justice may be different for a poor woman like Lawrence and an affluent family like the Ramseys.

"I really believe justice will be served in the Ramsey case," said Tiffiney Johnson, a friend of Lawrence's who lives in the same housing com plex. "It's just the difference between rich and poor ... There's no doubt she was killed and everyone knows it."

Repeated attempts Thursday to contact detectives regarding the case were unsuccessful.

The neighbor who identified the body said Lawrence had been beaten so badly she couldn't recognize her friend's face. Lawrence's teeth were broken, her eyes were bloodied and blackened. A trail of blood led from her apartment to where her body was found, and police reportedly found a broken beer bottle next to a pool of blood about 20 yards away.

But two weeks after her death, the Boulder County coroner released an autopsy report saying Lawrence fell into the hole - presumably dazed from a seizure - and died of exposure to the cold.

There has been no explanation of how she could have replaced plywood and two heavy buckets over the hole, as construction workers reportedly left it and found it the morning they discovered Lawrence's body.

"I'm not sure what happened, but it's hard for me to believe what the police say - that she died because of the cold," said the neighbor who identified Lawrence's body; she asked that her name not be used. "It's obvious that people who have more money are going to get more attention than people who are average."

The police's treatment of the Lawrence case, some say, is starkly different from how the Ramsey case has been handled so far.

While Boulder police initially dispatched 15 officers to the scene of Lawrence's death, that number declined within days.

In the Ramsey case, 30 officers from Boulder police and other local law enforcement agencies have worked virtually around the clock - even sending investigators to Georgia and Michigan - since JonBenet's death the day after Christmas. The investigatio n continues.

Police spent almost 10 days carefully scouring the Ramsey house for evidence. They finished examining the Lawrence crime scene in about two days.

And while the coroner completed and released the autopsy report on Lawrence about two weeks after her body was found, more than two weeks have passed since JonBenet's body was found, and no such report has been released. The report is not expected for "a minimum of a week," according to the coroner's office.

Police also released a detailed report about two weeks after Lawrence's death, even though they said it was still being investigated. In the Ramsey case, virtually all public records have been sealed: 911 recordings, search warrant affidavits and list s of what was seized from the family home.

When Lawrence died, police immediately questioned everyone involved, including her mother, sister and stepfather. JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, flew to Georgia for their daughter's funeral. A week after her death, they were given a writt en list of questions; they have yet to be thoroughly interviewed in person. Police said they didn't question the Ramseys in order to give them time to grieve.

"If Lorraine's mom wanted to grieve and wanted time or wanted to leave the state, there's no way in hell they would've let her go," Johnson said.

When asked about the different handling of the two cases at Thursday's public forum, Koby said it was only perceived to be different because of media hype.

"Why has the media given so much attention to this case and literally no attention to the case you described?" Koby responded when questioned about the Lawrence case.

"The notion that we have treated them differently - any legal expert will tell you we have handled this case exactly as it should be handled ... If you go back and assess the homicides that Boulder has had, because they are infrequent events, you will find a similar response."


Quote:1997-02-12: CASE NOT CLOSED IN LAWRENCE DEATH

DAILY CAMERA
CASE NOT CLOSED IN LAWRENCE DEATH
POLICE LEAN TOWARD EXPOSURE AS CAUSE
Wednesday, February 12, 1997
Section: MAIN
Edition: FIRST
Page: 2A
By ELLIOT ZARET Camera Staff Writer

Boulder police investigators still haven't closed the book on the death of Lorraine Florence Lawrence - found dead at a construction site Dec. 4 - even though the Boulder County coroner concluded the death was accidental nearly two months ago.

"They do their own investigation and we do our own investigation," said police Detective Ron Gosage. "Some of it's the same and some of it's different."

The coroner determined that 37-year-old Lawrence - found partially clothed with bruises on her head and side in a hole near the public-housing apartment complex where she lived - died of exposure to the cold after wandering disoriented following a seizure. Temperatures hovered near freezing that night.

"This all fits together pretty well and pretty logically," said Boulder County Coroner Dr. John Meyer. "Our burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence - what's more likely than not. It's not beyond reasonable doubt, because we can't prove a negative."

The case has been the subject of public controversy after some neighbors criticized police handling of the case, compared to the intense investigation into the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.

But Meyer said that controversy may have been fueled by some media inaccuracies. For instance, Meyer disputed reports that the construction hole where Lawrence's body was found had been re-covered with plywood boards that covered the hole the day before.

Lawrence's body was found leaning against a broken board in the hole, her leg scraped and bruised, said Meyer. The board was half-inch particle board - not plywood - something chief medical investigator Tom Faure described as "relatively lightweight." A person stepping on it, he said, could easily have fallen through.

The coroner initially investigated the case as a homicide, but an autopsy report showed the bruises and cuts on her face did not cause her death. There also were no other signs that her death was caused by some sort of beating or injury.

"She had injuries on her that someone looking at her would say she was beaten," said Meyer. "We're looking at the totality of the information that we have, and we don't think she was beaten. ... If we had found in the autopsy skull fractures or a ruptured spleen, that's a homicide - no question about it."

The coroner also researched Lawrence's medical history. It was that history that convinced him Lawrence died accidentally.

From the woman's medical records Meyer learned that Lawrence, who suffered from epileptic seizures, had been found wandering around semi-clothed, bruised, bloody and confused on several instances, including the night before her death. Meyer said such a period of confusion is common immediately following a seizure - called a "post-ictal state."

In another instance in October, Lawrence was brought to the emergency room by a stranger who found her outside her apartment half naked, incoherent and covered with blood.

Such instances were most common when Lawrence was not taking her prescribed seizure medication, Dilantin, Meyer said. The autopsy found levels of the drug in her bloodstream, but they were below "therapeutic levels" - in other words, she had been off her medication. Cocaine also was found in her system, officials said.

Meyer and Faure sat down with members of the family and told them how they believed Lawrence had died - that she wandered around in a disoriented state after a seizure and fell into the hole, where she died of exposure. The bruises and blood on her, they said, were self-induced.

They then sat down with police investigators, who did not object to the ruling.

But police are waiting for evidence from CBI labs before they decide whether to close the case. Those results are expected soon, said Gosage, who added that the long wait is simply due to the CBI's caseload.

Gosage agrees that Lawrence was not beaten, nor "struck with anything that we can tell." As for a broken beer bottle found near some blood on the parking lot, "I think the broken beer bottle was a coincidence," Gosage said, adding that only the bottom of the bottle was found in the parking lot.

"We're strongly leaning toward the coroner's conclusion," said Gosage. "I won't be able to say 100 percent until we get (CBI evidence) back."

CHAIN OF EVENTS 2001


Quote:[Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2001-01-16: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.com)
"The "Other" Housekeeper"



24 . "AND the other housekeeper,"
Posted by Maikai on Jan-17-01 at 11:49 PM (EST)

Geraldine Vodicka...who just so happened to have an adult daughter meet an untimely death a few weeks before JBR's murder. She may have been the one that worked for the Ramseys before Linda Wilcox. She had some type of disability, and may have been a problem in picking up toys.




25 . "Maikai"
Posted by LovelyPigeon on Jan-18-01 at 10:07 AM (EST)

Please nudge my memory on how we know Vodicka was a former Ramsey housekeeper as I can't locate the source this early in my memory's morning LOL. Here's the one article I could find: A tale of two victims: questions surround handling of two deaths

By ELLIOT ZARET
Camera Staff Writer
Friday, January 10, 1997




26 . "LP.....it was written"
Posted by Maikai on Jan-18-01 at 10:41 AM (EST)

in a Daily Camera article a couple years or so after the daughter was buried. The Camera had solicited for donations for the tombstone, because the family couldn't afford it. The Camera did a followup article, at the cemetery, and they interviewed Mrs. Vodicka and her daughter. It was in that article there was a reference that Mrs. Vodicka had been a former housekeeper for the Ramseys but had to quit because of some type of health problem. It was only a few lines buried within the article. I didn't save the article, but I remember it.




29 . "Lilac....I thought"
Posted by Maikai on Jan-19-01 at 00:33 AM (EST)

the same thing about rich vs poor. Afterall, that is what Boulder had become. The article where the police ruled the death an accident came out on 12/20/96--the day before the Access article. Previous articles in the Camera had talked about friends and family and how some didn't think it was an accident. Who knows what triggers there were? The Vodicka family was devastated...the Ramseys were enjoying success. Mrs. Vodicka's daughter would have been the first homicide that year, if she had been murdered. Some didn't think the police investigated the death properly, and just closed the case.

It came out later that there the family was ok with the ruling...there had been some history there of the daughter walking around outside after an epileptic attack. It is curious that she appeared to have been beaten around the head--that didn't cause her death--but even if she had fallen because of the attack--would she have sustained those kind of injuries? Like Eller said---they may not ever know what happened beforehand. Just reports of arguing...a car squealing away.


Quote:[Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2001-12-31: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.com)
"Vodicka & Lawrence"



"Vodicka & Lawrence"
Posted by jameson on Dec-31-01 at 10:01 AM (EST)

Geraldine Vodicka was a housekeeper for the Ramseys.

He daughter, Lorraine Lawrence, was found dead in a construction ditch not long before JBR's murder. That was termed an accident - though it seemed to some it was more likely murder (her body was in a ditch that was covered with plywood.)

Now, it seems that both mother and daughter in that case have criminal records - - and as people are known by the company they keep, I wonder if the BPD checked out that area at all. Vodicka would have been able to tell people about the house, the family. And with the Ramseys in the news, with JBR in the parade and Mall programs, someone might have decided to act on a fantasy.. or two.

I am just trying to point out that there were people who LOGICALLY should have been investigated.

Maybe they were, but if so, no one has leaked that at all.

And I know the BORG is going to scream that I am throwing someone else under the bus - - that is not so.

I am trying to figure out who did this terrible crime - and I don't think it was a total stranger just walking down the street that night. I think JBR was a target - and the killer wasn't so close that he was concerned about leaving a 3 page handwriting sample... so a friend of a friend of the family works.

Santa had a kid with a criminal record - I think that needed to be checked.

LHP's family was of some concern.

And Vodicka... did Lorraine and her mother tell someone about the Ramseys and was Lorraine's death (accident or not) a convenient "go-ahead" for the killer?




4 . "Again, in a tabloid:"
Posted by LovelyPigeon on Dec-31-01 at 11:29 AM (EST)

from the Denver Post Februay 1997: Two sources are named in the story, former Ramsey housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka and the family's media adviser Pat Korten.

The housekeeper says Mrs. Ramsey was paranoid that her husband "would be tempted by any pretty young girls he came in contact with." Therefore, women hired for the household staff had to be "heavier, older and less attractive" than Mrs. Ramsey, the housekeeper said.

Korten says the Ramseys would be happy to talk with the cops, but not at police headquarters.

http://63.147.65.175/news/jon34.htm




10 . "The second article about "
Posted by Maikai on Dec-31-01 at 05:29 PM (EST)

John Ramsey's success appeared just one day later---one family (Vodicka's) was in mourning,....the other (Ramseys)had every reason to celebrate, with a great future ahead of them. IMO, it's logical to look at what possible link there could have been between the two families. We know Mrs. Vodicka worked as a housekeeper for the Ramseys at one time. We don't know if there was someone connected to the Vodicka's in some way that might have wanted to help her out--may have been distraught and angry about the death of Lorraine--maybe even angry at the police--might have thought a kidnapping would raise some easy money. Lorraine left behind a 9 year old son that I believe Mrs. Vodicka was going to raise. A subsequent article which I didn't save, but I believe came out in l997, had an interview with Mrs. Vodicka, and another daughter. The Boulder Camera had asked for donations for a tombstone, because the family couldn't afford one, and they were successful in raising the money.

The article talked about the tough times Mrs. Vodicka had encountered in her life. In that article it mentioned Mrs. Vodicka had been a former housekeeper of the Ramseys. Lorraine would have been the first murder of 1996, if the coroner had found evidence of a homicide. As it turned out, JonBenet Ramsey was the first murder....and there was a link between the two families. Who knows who may have been in Mrs. Vodicka's inner or outer circle--someone that may have mentioned something to someone, unwittingly?

Print this item

  JayD and LFlowers - JT Colfax
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-19-2017, 08:25 AM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (2)

Vennie Scott Thompson
Poster named "Obsessor" turned suspect over to Ramsey Investigators
Then posted about it on the Boulder News Forum


Quote:NOTE FROM CANDYROSE: On November 13, 1998, the "Obsessor" screen name logon on the Boulder News Forum was actually being "shared" by two people when the thread titled, "Breakthrough" was first created to announce the suspicions regarding Vennie Scott Thompson.

Apparently both "L Flowers" (LF) and "JayD" (Obsessor) were together in Boulder, Colorado using the same computer that day and although both of them had the suspicions, it was actually "L.Flowers" who was actually making the postings on the forum but was using the "Obsessor" screen name. But there was some confussion because at times it appeared that it was L.Flowers posting and other times it was JayD posting.

L.Flowers said she didn't have an account setup herself on the forum at that time and that is why she was using the "Obsessor" screen name. Once she set up her own account then her own logon was "lflowers" and once she began posting under her own logon then "JayD" began using his own logon again. So some of the more radical postings between JayD (Using the Obsessor logon) and Lance Matthews were in fact JayD and Matthews and not L.Flowers.

Quote:RECAP OF INFORMATION ABOUT VINNIE SCOTT THOMPSON:

01. Vennie Scott Thompson said, "I was in jail from 12/11/96 until 1/19/98.
02. Thompson: "That puts me out of the picture for the JonBenet Ramsey killing
03. Thompson: "That puts me out of the picture for the Susannah Chase killing"

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1998


Quote:[Image: BoulderNewsForumBanner.jpg]1998-11-13: Boulder News Forum thread, "Breakthrough"

breakthrough
obsessor - 06:26pm Nov 13, 1998 MST

(copy of letter sent 11/13/98 to ramsey case investigators)

To whom it may concern (Boulder police detectives, Jennifer Geddes, FBI, etc., Ramsey family)
It is our belief that you presently have the killer of JonBenet Ramsey incarcerated in Boulder City Jail.

******************************************************************
One of the sex offenders who is incarcerated on a "Peeping Tom" offense now is named in the today's Colorado Daily newspaper article as Vennie Scott Thompson. My friend and I believe very strongly that because of this man's discussion of the extortion kidnapping plot in fall or early winter 1996 (before the Ramsey killing), he may be the murderer of JonBenet.
*****************************************************************

Previously I discussed with Lou Smit and investigators working with the Ramsey family the possibility that a "Finnie" Thompson (first name was uncertain but sounded like "Finnie") was the killer of JonBenet. The reason for this suspicion is as follows:

My contact stated that in late 1996 he was visiting with "Finnie" Thompson, who was planning to kidnap a small child for ransom money (extortion attempt). "Finnie" Thompson was seeking an accomplice to do the kidnapping. He worked at Burger King in Boulder and told my contact repeatedly how intensely he hated the little children who came into the restaurant. "Finnie" also had been jailed in Boulder for "Peeping Tom" offenses and for that reason he was hated by the women who had encountered him at Penny Lane Coffeehouse in Boulder. He told my contact that he was all set to come into a very large amount of money very soon. My contact stated that "Finnie" had the attitude of someone who was trying to solve all of his problems at once by doing a crime. However, at the time my contact did not take "Finnie" seriously and thought it was just insane raving.

In August 1997 I first learned about "Finnie"s ransom plot and immediately informed Lou Smit and the Ramsey family detectives.

About a week ago I wrote to you and said that I believed that James Michael Thompson (a.k.a. J.T. Colfax) had been confused with "Finnie Thompson and that there may be two different people with similar names. This was confirmed today when my friend noticed a newspaper article in the Colorado Daily about sex offenders in Boulder.

*****************************************************************
One of the sex offenders who is incarcerated on a "Peeping Tom" offense now is named in the newspaper article as Vennie Scott Thompson. My friend and I believe very strongly that because of this man's discussion of the extortion kidnapping plot in fall or early winter 1996 (before the Ramsey killing), he may be the murderer of JonBenet.
*****************************************************************

My original contact refuses to come forward with this information about "Finnie" or Vennie Thompson. However we believe that our source is a very honest person and did not make this story up.

The employment records at Burger King where "Finnie" or Vennie Thompson worked are no longer available because they were removed from the Burger King offices soon after the JonBenet murder.

Please let me know if you have received this email and tell me what action is taken in response to it.

Thank you very much.
(end of quoted letter)




obsessor - 06:52pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#4 of 21)

nothing has yet been done with this info as far as i know. i have pressured Boulder police and Ramsey family investigators repeatedly on this, but previously did not know the precise name of Vennie Scott Thompson, only knew an appoximate pronunciation such as "Finnie". I told them he worked at Burger King in Boulder, therefore he should have been traceable by that clue. However to my knowledge no one ever followed up on this lead thoroughly. There was certainly some name confusion with J.T. Colfax (James Michael Thompson) the corpse artist, but that confusion is now cleared up.




v2000 - 07:18pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#8 of 21)

Would you care to clue us in on who your contact is, how your contact got the information, who wrote the letter, what the author's (and your) relationship to the case is, and how the author met Lou Smit?




obsessor - 07:27pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#9 of 21)

"Would you care to clue us in on who your contact is" [my contact refuses to come forward],"how your contact got the information" [in an informal social situation at my contact's home],"who wrote the letter" [me], "what the author's (and your) relationship to the case is" [my relationship to the case occurred because my contact approached me in August 1997 and revealed this apparent lead to me voluntarily. my contact and his friend both knew that i was interested in this case out of concern for the family and the community, etc.], "and how the author met Lou Smit?"






obsessor - 07:34pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#12 of 21)

the letter i refer to is the letter posted above on this discussion board (!) My contact spoke with a man he called "Finnie" Thompson at his home in late 1996. The man "Finnie" is the same person (we believe) as Vennie Scott Thompson. If this can be verified then we know that Vennie was planning a kidnapping in late 1996 because he was seeking co-conspirators. My contact just considered Vennie to be talking nonsense. My contact's friend knew Vennie had been previously found in a "Peeping Tom" offense in Boulder. The two talked and came to the conclusion that Vennie might be linked to the Ramsey murder because he was going around at night as a Peeping Tom and actually may have been planning (said he was planning) a ransom/extortion/kidnapping of a small child, and often raved about how much he detested children.Of course,we do not know whether Vennie Thompson is the killer or not; but at any rate it is a lead,and it is a lead that,in good conscience,needs to be investigated.






obsessor - 07:37pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#15 of 21)

fact is, the Burger King manager in Boulder told my friend that the personnel files for this man were mysteriously missing from the office paper files. Perhaps something is in the Burger King Computer somewhere detailing this fellow's work in Boulder Burger King?






obsessor - 07:51pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#21 of 29)

you can use exxon222@hotmail.com

already wrote to jtcolfax on his website and told him about this seeming identity confusion problem. i had been thinking colfax still was a suspect, but now think that this was partly a case of confused identity because of same last name Thompson. JT Colfax still seems odd but possibly just good at implicating himself.






obsessor - 07:59pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#24 of 29)

According to newspaper report in Colorado Daily today, Vennie Scott Thompson wrote a note to the woman he was convicted of Peep-Tomming on. The note may provide a handwriting sample, or police may be able to get other handwriting samples from Vennie's past to see if they implicate him in (or exonerate him from) the Ramsey murder.






obsessor - 08:12pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#37 of 44)

I am writing under my friend's handle ("Obsessor") because I do not yet have an identity/password of my own.I can assure Ruthee that she is NOT conversing with a police officer,nor is this a lesser kind of "publicity stunt" What we are trying to do is bring a child killer to justice.We are not here for purposes of idle entertainment.Also..."Beanie" appears to me to be a raving idiot.If you insist on being macabre,at least do it with the kind of witticism and ingenuity that Colfax has done it with. L Flowers






obsessor - 08:13pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#38 of 44)

there are 2 people using the obsessor handle right now, due to time lag in signup. my friend here knew Vennie as Finnie, but only was slightly acquainted. We searced for "Finnie" for some time, but his real name according to Colorado Daily is Vennie. We all know typos happen. The name was previously known only in casual conversation not in perfect written English.






obsessor - 08:56pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#83 of 83)

don't like the use of unnamed sources but the guy gave me the info on the condition that he not be named to the authorities. that's where it stands now. no emails have appeared from police ravenously hungry for clues. same as in 97 when i first informed ramseyfamily and Lou Smit about this. It was basically ignored. They are dealing with lots of leads and this was just one more. Since no one who talked with thomp would come forward they did not even go get a burger at burger king apparentment.






obsessor - 09:01pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#88 of 94)

[i]"Lazarus: I cannot give her name out in good conscience.If you happen to know Lance yourself,ask him.It is not my intention to disclose any information about Lance or my friend that is not already known to the public."


In answer to your question: I remember Vennie Thompson as tall,w greyish black hair and a deceptively benevolent demeanor.He usually wore a baseball cap and could be found at Penny Lane coffeehouse in the early mornings ( 6 a.m. ish)where I would often encounter him in the late winter and early spring of 1996.At that time I worked the graveyard shift,and would usually drop by to have coffee before going home.That's about all the information on V.T. I personally can give you; the rest,of course,is speculative. LF


[/i]



obsessor - 09:15pm Nov 13, 1998 MST (#99 of 99)

I contacted the Ramsey investigators. Jennifer Geddes, I believe her name is, turned out to be a very overworked law student. She didn't have time to come to Boulder to talk with me, and it was hard for her to find time in her schedule if I was to go to Denver. She did not investigate the Burger King angle as far as I know; nor did Lou Smit as far as I know.



Quote:[Image: BoulderNewsForumBanner.jpg]1998-11-14: Boulder News Forum thread, "Obsessors" friend and affiliate"

auntiebj - 01:57pm Nov 15, 1998 MST (#20 of 24)
If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

Lflowers, it is nice to see you now under your own idenity. Sorry about all the flack you got the other night. There are some posters who enjoy using multiple hats and creating havic out on the boards and that is who most people thought you were. But I am confussed about something. Was it you or the "other" obsessor Hat identity that has the "source" that will not come forward about this "Vinnie" guy? I know you are asking about it here so I am thinking it was you. If it is you then did the other obsessor person know about this too?




lflowers - 02:35pm Nov 15, 1998 MST (#21 of 24)

to auntie bj: Just returned to the computer lab and got your message...in answer to your inquiry, It was the other "obsessor" who was told by contact X about Vennie Thompson's possible involvement in the murder.At the time contact X came forward with this information,I was living in Asheville,N.C.,and was informed of the new developements via telephone.

I did not write the posted letter adressed to Ramsey family investigators,although I did agree,for the sake of a thorough investigation,that posting it was a good idea.




lflowers - 02:50pm Nov 15, 1998 MST (#22 of 24)

In case anyone's interested,the following excerpt is taken from the Nov 13-15 weekend edition of the "Colorado Daily":

Title of article: "Sex assault examined"

".....A jury found Vennie Scott Thompson,40,guilty of the charges against him August 19.Thompson was charged with attempted third degree sex assault and first degree criminal trespass.Thompson had been watching his victim through her window.When the woman would move to call the police,she said,Thompson would run away,then stop and kneel as if in prayer.He once got on the balcony of her Boulder home to leave her a note.According to police reports,part of the note read,'He waits at least a week between blessings,lest she become annoyed with his prayers and destroys him as is her right'"




lflowers - 12:42pm Nov 16, 1998 MST (#31 of 31)

hi,auntie bj...in answer to your question.....I have known "Obsessor" since early 1995,when I met him through mutual friends in the Boulder "poetry" scene (if it can be called that in respect to good literature,which it cant).Contact X,who,again,had often encountered V Thompson at Penny Lane coffeehouse in Boulder,states that the aforementioned was brought over to his residence by a mutual aquaintance (name not disclosed),and that,while "visiting", Thompson exhibited bizarre,inexplicable,and restless behavior;and that he talked repeatedly about coming into a large amount of money in the near future and about kidnapping a Boulder child for ransom.Then,allegedly,(as has been stated) he attempted to enlist contact X's help as an accomplice.

Of course, I have no hard proof of this;but I do happen to be aquainted with contact X myself,and I can say with conviction that,knowing the content of his character,I do not believe he would make this up.Contact X is a quiet,gracious,considerate man who is not given to verbal embellishments or theatrics of any kind.He is known around Penny Lane coffeehouse and among friends and associates as a gentle,good hearted,and compassionate induvidual.He would have absolutely no motive in concocting this story.




obsessor - 05:09pm Nov 16, 1998 MST (#34 of 35) Contact X is a good listener. He listened to the ravings of the guest, and then forgot about it all for several months, until Aug. '97 when another friend discussed the guest and the topic came up. Putting the kidnapping plot together with rumors about Peeping Tom arrest, they put their heads together and realized they should relay all this info to authorities. They knew I was obsessed with solving the case and told me all the details when I chanced upon them at Penny Lane. I contacted authorities and Ramsey family investigator Jennifer Geddes, an overworked law student in Denver. No one followed up on this lead completely as far as I know. In addition, I believe that there was genuine confusion between the two Thompsons prior to a few days ago when VT's name appeared in the paper and was noticed almost by chance by the very observant LF.



Quote:[Image: BoulderNewsForumBanner.jpg]1998-11-24: Boulder News Forum thread, "Just ask Vennie Scott Thompson...I did!"

Just ask Vennie Scott Thompson...I did!
matthews - 06:21pm Nov 24, 1998 MST

I was wondering what Vennie had to say about all these accusations....so I asked him. This came in the mail today

He answered a lot of questions and it was a really interesting letter. It told me for sure things that make me look at him in a new light when wondering whether or not to consider him a suspect....I will post when I can...am busy scanning someone else's letter right now.

Incidentally, LOU SMIT has contacted, "Obsessor" twice. The first e-mail, a brief message thanking Obsessor for posting the Vennie Thompson info on the web, was seen by L Flowers with her own eyes. The second, which Obsessor described to LF in detail, involved Smit contacting him a SECOND time and asking for permission to forward Obsessor's messages about Vennie Thompson to the BPD. (I thought Smit was court ordered to stay out of this thing?....O.J. had a loose glove; the Ramsey's have a LOUSMIT!)

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  Starting with advice from J&P
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-19-2017, 08:15 AM - Forum: How to solve this mystery - No Replies

VAN SUSTEREN: What would you tell them to do?
P. RAMSEY: I would say: This is the room where all of the evidence is stored. You start from the beginning, start combing, and go.
J. RAMSEY: Go back to the neighborhood, talk to the neighbors, that's never been done by the police. Start from the beginning, start from scratch, sit down with the parents, sit down with anybody that will talk to you within a hundred-yard radius of the house.
VAN SUSTEREN: Didn't they talk to the neighbor, though, who heard a scream at some point?
P. RAMSEY: We don't know, Greta, because no one has ever -- We hear rumors all the time. No one in authority has ever talked with us and told us what they know.
J. RAMSEY: What we know is what we have read or heard on television. We have not heard anything official from the police. So was there a woman that heard a scream? I believe so because I've heard that reported.
VAN SUSTEREN: But you don't know for certain?
J. RAMSEY: I don't know for certain.

(Note, that still has not changed.  The BPD still has not told the Ramseys everything they really KNOW about this case.  Meetings were  held, like the one in Atlanta, and promises were made - - they didn't have that with them but would send on to Lin - and never kept)

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  Running man - not supported by the evidence
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-19-2017, 08:07 AM - Forum: Names to remember - No Replies

FROM: Jay D.
EMAIL: jcfdillon@hotmail.com
LOCATION: Boulder
DATE: Sunday January 26, 1997

Please go to the general bulletin board for this BoulderNews website and look at La Cosa Nostra connections thread.

The 911 call during the Xmas party may have been a test by someone at the party or in a van/car outside the home, testing to see the exact response time needed by police for a 911 call. This person would be someone who would know very well that the police would respond to any 911 even if an incompleted call. They then timed the exact response time. Purpose: The killer knew that if and when Ramseys phoned 911 for police, then he would have a certain amount of time to torture/kill the child and leave the house. If killer knew exact time, he could then figure out the exact method of torturing/killing with just enough time to do this in the basement room and get away with the horrible crime with just enough time.

According to eyewitness a Running Man was seen leaving scene of crime. Tall and slender. It appears that perhaps the man may have run out of time. Knew exactly the number of seconds remaining before the police car would arrive, and had to resort to running even though this would attract attention. Carried out all details of the threatened killing method, but perhaps went even further overboard into the sexual crimes, knowing he had just enough time to add this further humiliation to the victim and family.

Sounds like a revenge killing. Killer may have known John Ramsey well enough from Access Graphics to understand that the sexual violation would be severely agonizing as a form of humiliation of the child and family. Also may have known John Ramsey well enough to know that John Ramsey would IMMEDIATELY call police in violation of attempted kidnapper's demands. The kidnapper made the threatened sanctions so horrible specifically in the hopes that John Ramsey would comply with the ransom. He hoped also that the modest ransom demand would also keep John Ramsey from calling police. But when, as feared, these aspects did not prevent the 911 call, the extortionist was "forced" by his personal code of "ethics" to carry out the promised threat in the ransom note, and to do so exactly as stated in that note so that John Ramsey would feel the full weight of the retaliation that had been taken out on his daughter. There was a getaway car/van or whatever, and this van would leave the scene of the crime at a specified time. These kidnappers were highly disciplined and if the actual assailant in the house did not return to the van or car as planned, then the assailant would have been left behind. Thus, the whole thing was timed down to the last second. The man had to run away from the house to make it to the car in just the right amount of time to be whisked away and prevent being intercepted by police.

(just a theory)
Sincerely,
Jay D.




FROM: Texas 3
EMAIL:
LOCATION:
DATE: Sunday January 26, 1997

I am still lost having missed a "Day in the Threads" Where did the Running Man information come from?




FROM: Longhorn
EMAIL: 4:15cst
LOCATION:
DATE: Sunday January 26, 1997

JayD.: please don't misread me, I mean no attack, just want to know where that bb is and until we can find another source(no offense intended) it's hard to accept a "running man" and a "witness" that suddenly shows up in the conversation. Agreed, options should remain open and each is entitled to pursue what they want. Just didn't want something reported as fact if it can't be confirmed. A theory is a different thing, no slam intended




FROM: Jay D.
EMAIL: jcfdillon@hotmail.com
LOCATION: Boulder
DATE: Sunday January 26, 1997


Roommate's co-worker said he heard a woman on a talk radio show. Woman stated she saw man running from crime scene on Dec. 26. Tall and slender. Woman stated she informed police of seeing this man running from scene of crime. Woman stated that police did not interview her at all about her eyewitness report. That's all I know so far about "Running Man." Will try to get more specific info as soon as possible.

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  Robert LaPlante
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-19-2017, 07:56 AM - Forum: Names to remember - No Replies

Robert E. Laplante

Reportedly charged with Child Pornography
Collected Barbie Dolls and Newspaper clippings of JonBenet



CHAIN OF EVENTS 2004


Quote:2004-02-17: Yarmouth man faces 3 child-porn counts

(Published: February 17, 2004)
http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/yarmouthman17.htm
Yarmouth man faces 3 child-porn counts
Girl says the suspect photographed her in the nude, police allege.
By DOUG FRASER and JASON KOLNOS
STAFF WRITERS

SOUTH YARMOUTH - A 45-year-old South Yarmouth man will be arraigned on three counts of child pornography after police alleged he photographed a young girl in his home and kept thousands of sexually explicit photographs.

Police say Robert Laplante had thousands of sexually explicit photos and a cache of dolls and toys in his home.

Robert E. Laplante is to appear this morning in Barnstable District Court.

The police investigation began Friday morning when a school psychologist notified Yarmouth police that a female student had reported being photographed in the nude.

Yarmouth Police Detective John K. Fallon, a sexual assault investigator, Officer Louis Nickinello and Investigator Matthew Fleischmann conducted the investigation that led to a search of Laplante's residence at 18 Wampanoag Road Friday night.

Police discovered thousands of photographs of young females, said Yarmouth Police Lt. Stephen G. Xiarhos. Police also seized videotapes, cameras and several computers.

Laplante was charged with:

Possession of visual materials of child sexual conduct.

Enticement of a child under 16.

Posing a child in the nude.

In addition to the photos, police also found a cache of children's toys, including dozens of Barbie dolls, inside Laplante's home, Xiarhos said. Laplante also had a collection of newspaper clippings of JonBenet Ramsey, the 6- year-old Colorado girl who was found murdered in her home on Christmas night 1996.

A police photo shows a variety of dolls, including life-size mannequins, seized from Robert Laplante's South Yarmouth home.

Police also found weapons in his house, including various homemade knives and swords.

"What we found in his house was very, very disturbing," Xiarhos added.

Xiarhos said the FBI was contacted and is assisting in the investigation.

Xiarhos said the girl who reported being photographed is under the age of 16, and that Laplante, who works at several area motels, became friendly with both her and her parents.

Xiarhos said police believe Laplante offered money or gifts to the girl to coax her into posing for the pictures.

"She is very young. I don't think she realized what he was really doing," he said.

Xiarhos said investigators had worked through only a tenth of the thousands of photos but had not identified any other local students among them.

Police are legally prohibited from releasing information about Laplante's past, including any prior convictions, but Xiarhos said Laplante had never been arrested for or convicted of this type of crime.

Xiarhos said Laplante has lived in Yarmouth for the last two years, but that police were investigating Laplante's past addresses.

In an effort to find any other local victims, Yarmouth police are asking that anyone who knows Laplante or may have seen him call Detective John K. Fallon at 508-775-0445, ext. 118.


Quote:2004-02-18: Cape man denies child pornography allegations

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ massachusetts/articles/2004/02/18/cape_man_denies_child_pornography_allegations/
Cape man denies child pornography allegations
By Jack Encarnacao Jr., Globe Correspondent, 2/18/2004

Robert Laplante of South Yarmouth pleaded not guilty yesterday to multiple child pornography charges in Barnstable District Court, Assistant District Attorney Brian Glenny said.

Laplante is accused of indecent assault and battery on a child under 14, five counts of posing a child nude, enticing a child under 16 to pose nude, and four counts of possessing child pornography.

Laplante, 45, who was ordered held on $250,000 cash bail, was arrested Friday night after a school psychologist notified Yarmouth police that an underage girl had reported being photographed nude by him.

Police obtained a search warrant for Laplante's Wampanoag Road home and arrested him prior to searching the premises.

Yarmouth Police Lieutenant Steven Xiarhos said officers discovered "hundreds and hundreds of items" of sexual paraphernalia and weapons in Laplante's home.

Xiarhos said that, in addition to machetes and swords, police found videos and photos of nude female children, as well as newspaper clippings of JonBenet Ramsey, a child beauty queen from Colorado whose 1996 murder case received national media attention. Dolls and child-size mannequins were also found in the home, police said.

The five counts of posing a child in the nude referred to five individuals with whom Laplante was involved, police said, and the four counts of possessing child pornography refer to four media types in which the material was stored: videotape, digital and Polaroid photos, and digital video files, they said.

"It's fortunate to say we don't run into this a lot on the Cape," Glenny said. "We'll need to see where we end up." Glenny said police still have to go through a "significant amount of material" before the full breadth of charges and sentences against Laplante can be established.

"It's going to be a massive task," Xiarhos said.


Quote:2004-02-18: Laplante had applied to be a foster parent

Laplante had applied to be a foster parent:
http://www.abc6.com/article.php?ID=4566

Cape Cod man arrested on child porn charges had applied to be foster parent
Feb 18, 05:04

(Yarmouth-AP) -- A Cape Cod man is behind bars today while police sort through hundreds of pornographic images and other items allegedly found in his home.

Robert Laplante of Yarmouth was ordered held on a quarter of a (m) million dollars bail after pleading innocent yesterday to a number of charges, including possession of child pornography and indecent assault and battery on a child under 14.

Police arrested Laplante after a young girl reported that she had been photographed in the nude by the 45-year-old maintenance worker.

The Boston Herald reports that Laplante -- a Worcester native who has lived in Yarmouth for about two years -- twice applied to be a foster parent along with his wife. The Department of Social Services says the couple was turned down for reasons that are unclear.

Inside Laplante's home, police also allegedly found dozens of Barbie dolls and a collection of newspaper clippings about JonBenet Ramsey, the six-year-old Colorado girl who was murdered in 1996.


Quote:2004-05-21: A grand jury charges Robert Laplante of West Yarmouth

1. Over 300 child-porn charges leveled (May 21, 2004)
http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/over30021.htm - [Cached]
Published on: 5/21/2004 Last Visited: 5/21/2004

A grand jury charges Robert Laplante of West Yarmouth with offenses involving nine children.
...
Robert Laplante
...
Robert Laplante, 45, of West Yarmouth was indicted on multiple counts of posing, photographing and videotaping children nude or in sexually explicit positions. He is also charged with molesting a young girl.

Specifically, he is charged with:

244 counts of possession of child pornography.
...
Laplante has been held on $250,000 bail since his arrest by Yarmouth police in February. He will be arraigned on these charges at a later date in Barnstable Superior Court. Prior to his arrest he worked as a hotel maintenance worker.

Other recent cases

There are differences between the case of accused child pornographer Robert Laplante and two other Barnstable County men who recently pleaded guilty to related crimes.
...
Assistant District Attorney Brian Glenny said yesterday the difference is between possessing and disseminating pornography and actually creating it, as Laplante is accused of doing.
...
Laplante came to the attention of police this winter after the parents of an elementary school student notified the school psychologist their daughter had been photographed in the nude by an acquaintance.
...
The search warrant filed in February alleges money entered the equation when the little girl asked Laplante to take her to Ryan's Family Amusement.

He allegedly bargained with the child - he would give her money in exchange for posing in bathing suits.

Bathing suit pictures Laplante frequently photographed and videotaped the victim posing on his bed in a bathing suit, police said. The documents indicate Laplante would provide the girl with the bathing suits then leave the room while she changed. However, according to police, during Laplante's absence, a video camera in the bedroom remained operating. The victim was unaware of this, according to the charges issued by the grand jury yesterday.

The victim told police that Laplante loaded some of those images onto a computer in the bedroom, according to the documents.

Laplante paid her as much as $13.50 for those pictures on at least four or five different occasions, records show.

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  what BORG hears
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-19-2017, 12:33 AM - Forum: 911 call - Replies (4)

I posted the following on Monday Feb 20

"At the end of the 911 call John Ramsey is heard barking to Burke "We're not speaking to you". It is stated in a clear parent-to-child tone, with venom and contempt."

This is just one example of what BORG hears when they listen to the tape.

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  Patsy on psychotherapy
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-18-2017, 10:29 PM - Forum: Patsy Ramsey - bio - Replies (1)

24 TOM HANEY: You mentioned earlier 25 about getting counseling for Burke. How about 0133  1 counseling for you and John?  2 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, yeah, yeah.  3 TOM HANEY: You still going or--  4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.  5 TOM HANEY: Both of you?  6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not as frequently  7 now. I mean when I first started going, when I  8 came back to Colorado after burying JonBenet, I  9 mean I never had any experience with 10 psychotherapy, because I never really needed it, 11 even when I had cancer, I didn't feel like I 12 needed it, because I had support of my husband, 13 my family and my faith and you know, God healed 14 me and I could get bigger. But this was just, 15 you know, way beyond anything. 16 And I realized, I mean it was after 17 several weeks of just being in that fetal 18 position, crying, and just not wanting to live 19 basically, and you think, I can't go on like 20 this. I need help. And I wasn't real sure what 21 was out there, because I never had any 22 experience to know what was out there.

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  the start of a myth
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-18-2017, 10:22 PM - Forum: Burke Ramsey - bio - No Replies

7 TRIP DeMUTH: A couple of questions  8 Tom. With Evan Colby, was there ever a time  9 when Burke and Evan were under the porch without 10 their clothes on something, like that? 11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding). 12 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you tell me about 13 that? 14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think 15 Cynthia Savage, my housekeeper-nanny, told me 16 about that one time. They were, there isn't a 17 porch to be under, but I think Evan taught Burke 18 that it was easier to go pee-pee outside than to 19 take the time to go inside to go pee-pee, so he 20 sort of taught him how to go behind the tree. 21 Evan is a little guy. 22 TRIP DeMUTH: How little is little 23 Evan? 24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I want to say 25 Burke was probably six or seven, Evan was 7 or 0120  1 8, or something like that. And Suzanne told me  2 she came out and saw -- I think she said they  3 were kind of by where we kept this trash can,  4 sort on the left side of the garage and Evan had  5 his pants down showing Burke his -- works.  6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Burke also have  7 his pants down or not?  8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think  9 I heard that.


my comment - from this bit in Patsy's 1998 interview, the story grew into Burke being gay.  The BORG were vicious.

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  Quick info about the Duct tape
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 03-18-2017, 11:28 AM - Forum: Duck Tape - Replies (13)

  • The duct tape was black, a point John Ramsey makes repeatedly. At one point he states "it was like black. It wasn't electrical tape. It was kind of white, black, unusual tape, I thought." It appears that "wide" may have been incorrectly transcribed as "white" in this statement since there are repeated other instances in which he refers to the tape as black. Crime scene photos make the tape appear gray, but this may be due to a reflection of light off the black tape  John  also several times notes the smooth edges of the tape, asserting that it has been cut with a knife and NOT torn by hand as one might normally do with duct tape. Note the Carnes opinion below indicates both ends were torn.John  reported the tape adhered all the way to JonBenet's mouth, i.e., it was not just loose on her lips. The tape is described as wider than electrical tape but not as wide as duct tape; JR appears quite certain on this point. He had previously used tape of a similar size that was white for sailing, but had never seen that type of tape in black previously. Note the Carnes opinion below indicates it was duct tape despite John's insistence it was not that wide (in the interviews, John is surprised by how wide the tape appears in crime-scene photos since it does not square his recollection).
Carnes Opinion
  • ******Lip Prints on Tape. Plaintiff also notes that the strip of duct tape found on JonBenet's mouth had a bloody mucous on it and a "perfect set of child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance." (PSDMF 53.)(Carnes 2003:15).*******Both Ends Torn. "Both ends of the duct tape found on her were torn, indicating that it came from a roll of tape that had been used before. (SMF P 171; PSMF P 171.) (Carnes 2003:18).*******Animal Hair. "Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. (SMF 183; PSMF 183.) Yet, nothing in defendants' home matches the hair (SMF 183; PSMF 183.), thereby suggesting either that the duct tape had been obtained from outside the home or that it had been carried outside the home at some point." (Carnes 2003:71).
 
FBI Findings
  • Date Manufactured. "The FBI had determined that the tape .... had first been manufactured in November 1996 under the brand name Suretape. The tape had a 40 percent calcium filler in the adhesive, and its yarn/scrim count of 20/10 helped pinpoint that Bron was the tape’s distributor" (Schiller).
Source of Tape
  • Not Sourced to Ramseys. "The black duct tape used on JonBenet's  mouth has also not been sourced to defendants. (SMF P 170; PSMF P 170.)...No similar duct tape was found in the house, nor is there evidence that defendants ever used or owned such duct tape. (SMF P 172; PSMF P 172.)" (Carnes 2003:18).Not From Picture Frame. "BPD detective Byfield had located two paintings in the home, one of which was hung in JonBenet's bedroom, that had black tape attached to the rear of the frames. There was no match with the strip of tape found in the windowless room, however. It was later determined that Better Light Photography Studio had placed these pieces of tape on the frames in 1993" (Schiller)

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  John and Patsy on nightgown
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 03-18-2017, 09:47 AM - Forum: Barbie nightgown - Replies (1)

BARBARA WALTERS: When JonBenet's body was found there was one of her favorite nightgown's next to her. Her so-called Barbie nightgown.


PATSY RAMSEY: Um hum.

BARBARA WALTERS: And so there was the impression that whoever did this cared about this child. Left the nightgown. Left the blanket.

PATSY RAMSEY: Um hum.

BARBARA WALTERS: Again. Oh her parents did it but they, they loved her so they tried to comfort her even in death.

JOHN RAMSEY: That's a very strange… that nightgown should not have been there. It's it's a clue of some type. We don't know what. Look, we know several very positive facts about this killer we believe. It's a male. (PAUSE) It's a pedophile that looks at young… female children much differently than you and I do. They look at 'em with sexual uh eyes. I thought about it every day for 3 years. I've talked to experts. I've talked to experienced homicide detectives. (LONG PAUSE) It's the best profile we can come up with.

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