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  Steve Thomas knew better
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 05:25 PM - Forum: Ramsey cooperation - No Replies

Q. Did you all conclude that there were references in the ransom note from Dirty Harry, Speed, the
movie Ransom, the movie Nick of Time and Ruthless People?

A. That wasn't my conclusion. I think it was Lou Smit that brought that to the attention of several,
and I don't know that those were verbatim quotes that matched the ransom note.
Q. Were you familiar -- well, was that investigated by the Boulder Police Department in terms of
trying to find out from movie rental records whether the Ramseys had ever seen those movies?
A. Unfortunately, one of the obstacles we ran into with movie rental records was after the Thomas
Hill, Anita, I can't remember her last name, hearings. Movie records are very, very restricted and
without warrants or subpoenas or something above and beyond, we couldn't just go to the video store
and check rental history.
Q. Didn't the Ramseys give you almost 100 releases to get information?
A. I believe after I left.
Q. But nonetheless, you believe they did that?
A. I have heard, I think even you say that after -- or at a point in time after which I left the
investigation, I was of the impression that after Kane came on board, they gave a number of consent
releases.
Q. They also provided a considerable amount of historical writings from Patsy Ramsey, didn't they,
in addition to the five exemplars?
A. I don't know if those were -- if those were seized by crime scene search warrant or if those were
surrendered.


My comment - I was told by more than one person that the Ramseys were immediately signing papers allowing the authorities to see their medical records, library loans, movie rentals and anything else they asked for.

 I was also told the BPD - under suggestions from the FBI - chose not to ask for other things.  No one really could say for sure why but they thought the BPD didn't want to see evidence that cleared the Ramseys.

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  the paintbrush
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 05:20 PM - Forum: Cord ligature - Garrote - Replies (1)

from Steve Thomas' depo

9. "paintbrush"
In response to message #8
 
  
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) There was some paint --
MR. DIAMOND: There's one hour left.
MR. WOOD: I do hope you'll give me some consideration on a little extension if we can finish up and I
don't have to take it up with the court.
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) The garrote was made out of a paint brush that was believed to be a paint
brush in a paint tray down in the basement, right?
A. That's my understanding.
Q. And there was the tip end with the brush found in the paint tray, right?
A. No, it's my understanding the brush end --
Q. The brush end was found, the tip end was broken off and never found, right?
A. Yeah, it's my understanding that the handled shaft was fashioned into the garrote handle. And
Lou Smit told me that there was a missing piece that has been unaccounted for.
Q. Did you ever find any evidence to dispute what Mr. Smit told you in that regard?
A. No.

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  The wet bed
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 04:59 PM - Forum: Disproving Myths - Replies (2)

      First, the crime scene photo

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  misleading other LE? Experts?
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 04:49 PM - Forum: Misleading the media - Replies (1)

"Thomas depo 42 - prosecution"
 
  
Q. Do you know of any prosecutor who is familiar with the evidence that has concluded that the
evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt that Patsy Ramsey is guilty of the homicide of her
daughter?

A. No, because the prosecutors privy to that evidence are bound by grand jury secrecy and none
have violated that with me.
Q. Did you ever take this case to a prosecutor? I know you all had the Dream Team that was
helping the police department. I want to know whether you ever had a prosecutor outside of the seven
that were involved in this case that at least Mr. Hunter tells us did not believe that sufficient evidence
existed to charge and prosecute Patsy Ramsey. Did you ever take it to a prosecutor and present it to
ask someone else outside of Boulder whether that prosecutor believed that this case had evidence
justifying prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; did you ever do that?
A. Did we ever pack up our or me case file and take it and do a presentation for an outside
prosecutor to see if he thought or would prosecute this case? No, not that I'm aware of.
Q. Did you ever do it at any time as you sit here today?
A. Take it to a prosecutor?
Q. Did you take your information, what you knew in all those hundred of pages, that hopefully you'll
be able to find now that you'll go look for them in response to that subpoena, and take that to an
experienced prosecutor and say, give me your opinion on whether this justifies a prosecution in terms of
whether this is sufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? Did you ever do that?
That's my question.
A. No, I have friends that are prosecutors but I never went and did a case presentation of any sort
to try to elicit their support in moving forward with the prosecution.
Q. All right. Or to give you an opinion on what the evidence pro and con would say to an
experienced prosecutor?
A. I don't know what you're referring to, Mr. Wood.
Q. You would have to give them your evidence and you would have to give them the intruder
evidence and you would have to say, please, weigh this and tell me because I don't like Alex Hunter
and I don't believe that Alex Hunter is doing the right thing in not filing charges or getting an indictment
and tell me if you think as an experienced prosecutor the case is here to bring charges; did you ever do
that?
A. No, I never had some sort of case presentation like that, no.

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  from Steve Thomas depo
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 04:33 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (2)

http://www.webbsleuths.org/showthread.php?tid=665

I posted this under LE - Steve Thomas but will link here

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  Ramseys had copies of all LE records
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:28 PM - Forum: Disproving Myths - No Replies

from Steve Thomas' deposition:

"Thomas depo 43 - sharing evidence"
 
  
Q. You indicated at page 297 of your book consistent with the Boulder police, I will tell you a press
release in June of '98 that you all had collected 1,058 items of evidence. Does that sound about right?

A. You know, this was a Beckner --
Q. It's at page 297 in your book.
A. I know.
Q. You adopted it as true, didn't you?
A. If I can answer the question.
Q. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to move along.
A. Beckner put together this as, I think you're right, as some sort of a press release, but I don't
disagree with these numbers.
Q. How many of those 1,058 pieces of evidence were shared with the Ramseys or the Ramsey
lawyers?
A. I don't know.
Q. You consulted 500 -- you interviewed 590 people. How many of those interviews were given to
the Ramseys or the Ramseys' lawyers?
A. I don't know.
Q. Consulted 64 outside experts. How many of those experts' reports were given to the Ramseys'
lawyers or the Ramseys --
A. Mr. Wood, you would know much better than I how much --
Q. I've got to tell you, Mr. Thomas, I do know and I've got about 14 pages and I could be off by one
or two and yet everybody keeps describing this incredible amount of evidence given to the Ramseys
and their lawyers. I'm just trying to go figure out where it is because that's not what I've got and that's
not what their lawyer has got. I mean, I understand they got to see the garrote and I understand they
got to see the first generation ransom note and I didn't get that. But I got the few pages, incomplete
pages of police reports that were bargained off with respect to the April '97 interview, right?
A. (Deponent nods head.)
Q. And I don't have any more reports. I don't know of any others that were given to John and Patsy
Ramsey according to their lawyers and I'm just trying to figure out what you were talking about when
you say you were describing on page 56 the incredible amount of evidence given to the Ramseys and
their lawyers?
A. Courtesy of Pete Hofstrom and I believe others in the DA's office who did this verbally so much
was shared by Pete Hofstrom's own admission. If you're just talking about hard copy documents, I
don't know what they do or you do or don't have.

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  info from others
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:16 PM - Forum: Judith Phillips - No Replies

starting with Frank Coffman


"10 . "uncorroborated stories"
Posted by MaskedMan on May-04-00 at 11:19 AM (EST)
Steve Thomas presents many unsourced and uncorroborated stories.

On page 5, he presents the improbable story that JonBenet was chilly at a restaurant,
but Patsy wouldn't let her put on a jacket because "You're still on show." Steve Thomas
didn't identify his source, but I know that this is one of Judith Phillips' urban legends.
When I aksed Judith about where and when this episode happened, she said that she
didn't know and that she didn't see it herself. She said someone else had seen it. I
asked her, "Who saw it?" She wouldn't tell me. So, this is just an unverified third-hand
rumor.
Judith has done this repeatedly. She's lied to me about what she supposedly knows. She
would claim to have first-hand knowledge about something, but then she'd change her
story when I tried to pin her down. For instance:
Judith told me that Priscilla White had told her that John Ramsey tried to discourage
Fleet White from entering the wine cellar room on Dec. 26, 1996. I believed that story
for a long time. She was the source for a story to that effect in the National Enquirer of
April 1997. When I found out later that that never happened, I asked Judith how Priscilla
could have been so wrong about that. Then, Judith admitted that, uh, well, she didn't
hear the story directly from Priscilla, but from someone else...
Steve Thomas used Judith for several dubious stories. She is the anonymous "family
friend" whom Steve Thomas mentions. It wouldn't occur to Steve to double-check his
information, since any story unfavorable to the Ramseys is automatically true to him.
Positive stories, of course, don't appear in his book. "

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  Patsy denied JonBenet a sweater and more
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:15 PM - Forum: Disproving Myths - No Replies

"10 . "uncorroborated stories"
Posted by MaskedMan on May-04-00 at 11:19 AM (EST)
Steve Thomas presents many unsourced and uncorroborated stories.

On page 5, he presents the improbable story that JonBenet was chilly at a restaurant,
but Patsy wouldn't let her put on a jacket because "You're still on show." Steve Thomas
didn't identify his source, but I know that this is one of Judith Phillips' urban legends.
When I aksed Judith about where and when this episode happened, she said that she
didn't know and that she didn't see it herself. She said someone else had seen it. I
asked her, "Who saw it?" She wouldn't tell me. So, this is just an unverified third-hand
rumor.
Judith has done this repeatedly. She's lied to me about what she supposedly knows. She
would claim to have first-hand knowledge about something, but then she'd change her
story when I tried to pin her down. For instance:
Judith told me that Priscilla White had told her that John Ramsey tried to discourage
Fleet White from entering the wine cellar room on Dec. 26, 1996. I believed that story
for a long time. She was the source for a story to that effect in the National Enquirer of
April 1997. When I found out later that that never happened, I asked Judith how Priscilla
could have been so wrong about that. Then, Judith admitted that, uh, well, she didn't
hear the story directly from Priscilla, but from someone else...
Steve Thomas used Judith for several dubious stories. She is the anonymous "family
friend" whom Steve Thomas mentions. It wouldn't occur to Steve to double-check his
information, since any story unfavorable to the Ramseys is automatically true to him.
Positive stories, of course, don't appear in his book. "



(Remember, MaskedMan was Frank Coffman.)

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  Judith Phillip's views
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:11 PM - Forum: Pageants - Replies (2)

From Steve Thomas' deposition

Q. Take a look, if you would, at page 45 of your book. Second -- actually, first full paragraph. "An
acquaintance said that JonBenet was rebelling against appearing in the child beauty contests. She was
being pushed into the pageants by her mother and grandmother, said the witness." Who is that
individual?

A. I believe that was Judith Phillips.
Q. Did you find Judith Phillips to be credible?
A. At times.
Q. At times she was not credible?
A. No, I think Judith Phillips, like many others in Boulder, were devastated by this crime and she had
tough moments, I'm sure.
Q. Do you think John and Patsy Ramsey had tough moments because they would have been devastated by the death of their daughter?
A. They certainly may have.

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  Other ways to get in or out
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 12:07 PM - Forum: Broken window/ Spider web - Replies (8)

I am not 100% sure the killer went in or out the basement window.  Especially if he had been in the house more than once.    Here from Steve Thomas' deposition is information on other ways the killer might have gone in.

Q. There was clearly an indication from a member of the Boulder Police Department that they found
at least seven doors and windows unlocked at the Ramsey home on the morning of December 26,
1996. You remember that, don't you?

A. I've heard that referred to. I don't know -- what detective are you referring to?
Q. Have you heard that, sir? Has that not been part of a presentation made to you?
A. By Lou Smit or Mr. DeMuth?
Q. Either one.
A. What presentation are you talking about?
Q. There were two presentations, one in May and one in June. You attended both, true?
A. I did.
Q. You took notes, didn't you?
A. I may have.
Q. You paid careful attention to what was being said, didn't you?
A. I believe so.
Q. Have you ever heard that there were seven windows and doors found unlocked in the Ramsey
home on the morning of December 26, 1996?
A. I don't know who the source of that is right now but I --
Q. I didn't ask you the source. I asked you have you ever heard it, sir?
A. Yeah.
MR. DIAMOND: Have you heard that from any source?
A. Yeah.
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) From someone connected with the investigation, either in the district
attorney's office or the Boulder Police Department?
A. Or courtesy of you and the media, yeah, I believe I've heard that.
Q. Trust me, I wasn't there the morning of the 26th and I didn't find the status of the doors. I'm
asking you whether --
A. Nor was I, no.
Q. And I don't think I was around in May or June when the presentations were made. You heard
that a Boulder police officer had found as many as seven doors and windows unlocked in that house on
the morning of December 26, 1996, hadn't you, sir?
A. You're sourcing that to a -- now to a Boulder police officer detective and that's not my
recollection; DeMuth may have said that.
Q. Do you think Trip DeMuth made it up out of a whole cloth?
A. I don't know where Trip DeMuth uncovered a lot of things in his investigation.
Q. So you think that there was -- you feel like you can competently say that's not true, that there
were no doors found unlocked or windows found unlocked that morning?
A. I wasn't there that morning.
Q. Well, sir, you were not but you have to rely, as you say earlier in your testimony, on your fellow
officers, right?
A. That's right.
Q. All right. Well, did you go back and ever look to see if there were ever any reports that would
have indicated that there were as many as seven windows and doors found unlocked in that house that
morning?
A. I'm not familiar with the detective or the report you're speaking about.

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