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  BORG program transcript
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-19-2017, 11:04 PM - Forum: Patsy Ramsey - bio - No Replies

What bias can you spot?  What simple lies?

 Court TV Transcript about Patsy Ramsey being ambidextrous - October 25, 2000

JANE WALLACE: Welcome to the program. I'm Jane Wallace sitting in for Catherine Crier, who will return when her voice does. Could a break in the JonBenet case possibly be this simple? A new report in the National Enquirer claims the normally right-handed Patsy Ramsey is in reality ambidextrous and may have used her left hand to write that ransom note. Investigators have remained suspicious that while the ransom note didn't exactly match Patsy Ramsey's writing, it came pretty close. Here you see the Enquirer's comparision of the note next to a pageant application the Enquirer says was written eight days before. Ted Widmer joins us to talk about it. He's the director and principal instructor of the International School of Handwriting Sciences in San Francisco. He's also the author of Crime and Penmanship. In Los Angeles, Mike Walker, Senior Editor of the National Enquirer, also the host of the syndicated entertainment show, National Enquirer Uncovered. And in studio, Robert Tarver, criminal defense attorney extraordinaire. Welcome, all three. Thank you.
WALLACE: Mike Walker, it's your story, you're on first. Could it possibly be this simple after all this time?
WALKER: Well, for a long time investigators have known that the note was probably written by somebody who's ambidextrous. This is the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. But police have never been able to absolutely independently confirm that Patsy Ramsey was ambidextrous, so we decided because this case is so old and we're trying constantly to uncover new evidence, we went to witnesses everywhere, in Boulder, in Parkersburg, West Virginia, and we talked to...
WALLACE: Where she grew up.
WALKER: Where she grew up, where Patsy grew up. We talked to people from her school days, teachers, etc, and we found a witness, a high school teacher who taught Patsy in the 1970's, who said very simply and matter-of-factly she is ambidextrous. She was as a child. She is now. We went to Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, the housekeeper, and when we asked her this she said, oh yeah, she said, Patsy told me she was ambidextrous. I've seen her brush her hair with her left hand. I've seen her paint with her left hand. I once saw her work on a science project with Burke, JonBenet's brother, where she wrote numbers and letters with her left hand. She is absolutely ambidextrous. This is very exciting evidence. As I'm sure Mr. Widmer, the handwriting expert, will tell you, if you look at the letter, the ransom note, the two and a half page ransom note, you can see indications that this was written by a person who was using their non-dominant hand. The shaky handwriting..
WALLACE: Okay, let's take a peek. Mr. Widmer, if you would go along with us here. Take a look at what is similar and what is not similar here, because my concern is that after all these years, the notoriety of the crime, the unsolved status of the crime, that at this point in time you could get somebody to say that Patsy Ramsey is the Ghost of Christmas Past, I mean, you could find someone who'd say just about anything along the line. So you tell me, how do tell when something is written by an am.. you know, someone who can write with both hands, come on, how does anybody know that?
WIDMER: Well, actually, I'm not sure that you can say that it's possible to tell somebody who's ambidextrous, from at least a single sample of the handwriting. Handwriting actually is a misnomer because if you lose a hand, for example, and have to write with the pen, for example, held in your mouth or between your cheek and your shoulder, your handwriting basically stays the same. You really should call this brain-writing rather than handwriting. There have been many occasions where people have lost a hand, like say their dominant hand was their right hand and they then had to learn how to write with their left hand, and basically the handwriting looks virtually the same. There may be a slant change or some change. But it is difficult to say. It's also very difficult to say if somebody's either left-handed or right-handed who actually wrote the note. I think the main thing here is that this ransom note was written by a person who was trying to disguise their handwriting.
WALLACE: Not to mention the language in it. Come on. What type of criminal ever writes Mr. Ramsey, listen carefully, exclamation point?
WIDMER: I agree. Actually I have some thoughts on the fact of how it was written, the words that were written, and so forth, because it's very difficult to believe a mother could actually write those words, even though I always felt that the note was dictated, though I can't tell you exactly why, it's more of a feeling from the forty years I've been doing document examination. I got the feeling that the note was not actually spontaneously written, but probably dictated by somebody else.
WALLACE: Okay, but maybe written by Patsy Ramsey? Are you buying this or not? I'm not sure what you think.
WIDMER: Well, I think the important thing to understand here is that you definitely cannot rule out Patsy Ramsey as a possible writer of the note.
WALKER: Well we, look, we hired the same handwriting expert that the FBI uses and that expert said that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note. The investigators at, Chet Ubowski, who's the chief investigator for the California Bureau of Investigation, was quoted in the recent book by the investigator who quit the case, saying, I believe she wrote the note.
WALLACE: Okay, but let's look into the whys here, as you're making that point, Mike. The R's for example. I mean, even I was a little bit convinced by the R's, even though I'm a little bit skeptical here. Let's look at some of the similarities between this pageant application and the actual ransom note, such as it was called, listen carefully exclamation point. If we can put up the graphic, I'd like to take a peek here. Look at the R's in both. I don't know if we can get in close. And the language. The language is so arch in that ransom note. By the time you get to page three, there is a quote that says something like use your southern manners....
WALKER: It's use your good common... southern common sense, John. Now, at the beginning of the note it says, and this is something that I came up with once when I was watching this on a television show. I looked at it and I said, look how it opens. We represent a small foreign faction, right? Okay...
WALLACE: What foreign faction calls itself a faction?
WALKER: Right, I was going to say... and what is going... what foreign faction, okay? I mean, I don't think Abu Ben Booby of the, you know, the Desert Liberation Front is going to say, use your good southern common sense, John. Unh-unh. That note is totally stilted. It is very arch, as Mr. Widmer points out. It was obviously written by somebody... I mean, look, intruders do not come to homes and say, gee I think I'll sit down and write me a nice two and half page ransom note while I have this dead body sitting here...
WALLACE: And I'm from a small faction of single mothers from the upper west side of New York. Okay, Mr. Tarver, get in here. You got to play the role of defense attorney.
TARVER: And you know what, it's not even hard here because the bottom line is when we strip away everything that everyone has said, Mr. Widmer says it best. We're at the same place we were before. The only thing that we know now is that the CBI and the Boulder Police have sunk to a new low. They've been out-investigated by the National Enquirer, no less. And you know, when I look at this whole thing, I'm reminded of the fact that PR gave a handwriting sample with her left hand to the police already. So this is nothing new. She already gave this sample, so ...
WALKER: ....corroboration.
TARVER: ...obviously, they must have made a determination already...
WALKER: That's right.
TARVER: So this is nothing new. She already gave this sample, so they could compare it and obviously...
WALKER: What's new is the corroboration.
TARVER: Obviously, they must have made a determination even based on the sample that she gave that that was not enough, so here we are rehashing the same things over again, dragging this woman again over the coals, and what for? They've already got the information. They've already determined that it's not enough.
WALKER: Because she murdered her daughter.
TARVER: That's a conclusory statement, and in America we try to prove these things first before...
WALKER: That's what we're trying to do, counselor...
WIDMER: I'd like to ask a question if I could...
WALKER: ...and will continue trying to do.
WALLACE: Go ahead, Mr. Widmer, go ahead.
WALKER: And yes, she did give the handwriting sample. What you're missing here, this is corroboration that she is in fact ambidextrous, something the police could never determine...
TARVER: They could never go to these other sources, they could never talk to her housekeeper? You're telling me that the police were that inept that they'd never
single person?
WALKER: Yes, we are telling you that... we are the first ones who asked Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, right, when we asked Linda Hoffmann-Pugh she went yeah, Patsy was ambidextrous. We found the high school teacher.
TARVER: But they did have the presence of mind, they did have the presence of mind to have her take a sample with the other hand, which means that they must have had an idea that that might have been the case. They've done that. They've covered their bases. What else is there to show now?
WIDMER: ...something here if I may.
WALLACE: Mr. Widmer, when I listen to you talk about this as brain-writing, am I the only person whose handwriting developed by forging notes with their mother's signature? People can change their style of writing and if I tried to write a monkey note right now as a ransom note from a private faction, I'm not sure you could trace it to me.
WIDMER: Well, one of the tenants in handwriting identification is we always like to have the original sample. In other words, we like to have the one that was actually written with the pad and so forth, not a photocopy. None of us except for the people directly involved, apparently, in Colorado have actually seen the original note. The reason for that is because one of the main aspects of handwriting identification is pressure pattern. In other words, the force exerted, which is directly related to the neuromuscular system of the person. When you have a photocopy, you can't see that. But I do have a question I would like to ask, possibly of Mr. Turner because..
WALLACE: Tarver. Go ahead.
WIDMER: You may have more information than I do on this. But they might have taken exemplars with her left hand, but what were the exemplars? Something that's always bothered me about this case is I always question whether the exemplars were done correctly.
WALLACE: What do you mean - the samples they made her write, is that an exemplar?
WIDMER: That's what we call a... sample, exemplar, same...
TARVER: Quite frankly, I don't have that information, but something leads me to believe from a reading before that they may have taken entire series of words and not just light writing, but a series of words. But when you look at the whole thing, the question is, you would think that since the gentleman from the Enquirer is saying, look, our people, we've got the FBI expert says that this is the note, we've got people who have worked with this bureau and that bureau, they say this is the note... is there any way that this information can be corroborated? How come the CBI and the Boulder Police are not getting that same information? If it [cross-talk] conclusive.
WALKER: Well, they do. We have turned that over to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. We've turned this evidence over. And I just told you that the chief handwriting expert for the CBI says, quote, I believe she wrote the note.
TARVER: I believe it's different than conclusive...
WALKER: It's up now to the prosecutors to, you know, to indict. I've never understood why that hasn't happened.
WALLACE: Okay, but you went one further, Mike Walker.
WALKER: I'm sorry?
WALLACE: You went one further. Not only did you believe she wrote the note, you believe she killed JonBenet. Why did you make that leap? Even if, as Mr. Widmer said, she may have been taking dictation. Why do you assume she was JonBenet's killer as well as the author of this note?
WALKER: Because of all of, I mean, why do I believe it? Because of the mountain of evidence that shows that there was no intruder in the house.
WALLACE: But why her, not him?
WALKER: I believe they were both complicit in it. I believe both of them know what happened that night and I believe they're both guilty in that regard and I've always believed that and that's my opinion.
TARVER: You know what the key is... the key word to what you're saying, Mr. Walker, quite respectfully, is what you believe and you're entitled to your beliefs but you know what, ...
WALKER: Yes it is. But I'm also... that's right.
TARVER: I've been in law for a long time, both as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney, and when we presented cases as a prosecutor, it was more than just our belief. We went with what the evidence could show. That was our responsibility as public servants and this is...
WALKER: And you believe as a former prosecutor there's not enough here to just indict? I'm not saying to convict, I'm saying...
TARVER: You want to indict irresponsibly, I could indict you for the Ramsey murder if I wanted to, but if you want to do it responsibly...
watch me, watch me.
WALKER: I don't think it would be irresponsible.... oh no you couldn't, sir, I wasn't in the house that night. They were. They lied, they openly lied, they said...
TARVER: You've never been before a grand jury... you've obviously never been before a grand jury...
WALKER: Well, they said... what about all the evidence that shows that Burke, who was supposedly asleep, by their own testimony, suddenly is found on a tape wide awake saying, daddy, what did you find? How do explain that?
TARVER: Are you suggesting that they're just incompetent or looking the other way?
WALKER: I suggest...
TARVER: It has to be one of the two.
WALKER: ... that they are incompetent. I have also said that the prosecutor and the defense attorneys own a shopping center in Boulder. I find Boulder to be a town that is just incredibly indifferent to exhaustively finding out who did this crime.
WALLACE: Okay, Ted Widmer, we're going to get out of the field of belief here and into the field of courtroom fact. If it was your belief as an expert that she in fact may have authored this note with another hand, would that be enough to justify an indictment? Would it be enough to convict? Or it going to stay the same old basically suspended case?
WIDMER: I've always been amazed that the handwriting hasn't been a stronger factor in this entire case because we should be able to identify that handwriting. I would like to find out, or, if anyone knows, if they actually gave these handwriting samples in the way they should have, and the way they should have done this, and they may have, I don't know but I never heard them do this, is someone should have gotten a piece of paper the same size as the ransom note, found a pen that was similar, it looks from the photocopies I've seen..
WALLACE: Like a felt-tip.
WIDMER: Like a felt-tip, exactly. And then someone dictate her the entire ransom note, and have her do it with first the right hand and then the left hand and now you have a good examplar. If you had something like that and you had a handwriting expert who knew what he was doing and pair all the originals, the exemplar versus the original note, you would now have a very good piece of evidence because handwriting identification is accepted all over the world as a form of identification.
WALLACE: Mr. Tarver, you get the last fifteen seconds...
TARVER: It seems to me that those are established norms of handwriting analysis. I've worked with handwriting experts before...
WIDMER: Correct.
TARVER: That's exactly what they do. So either you're saying that the people that are doing this are sub-par and not quality people, not qualified to do it, or you're saying that perhaps we don't have the quantum of evidence that we think we have, and that's why have to be careful when we point the finger and say this person is the murderer without the proof to back it up.
WALLACE: Mike Walker, last word, ten seconds.
WALKER: I just believe that this is new, startling evidence that should be examined. I believe that this is enough to show that Patsy Ramsey may have been complicit, may have written that ransom note.
WALLACE: Rob Tarver, Mike Walker and Ted Widmer, what an enjoyable discussion. Thank you very much.... and provocative

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  She shouldn't need funding
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-19-2017, 10:29 PM - Forum: Truth about Tricia Griffith and weBsleuths - Replies (5)

.pdf   websleuths-lawsuit-1.pdf (Size: 494.76 KB / Downloads: 7)

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  On Peter Boyles
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-14-2017, 06:08 PM - Forum: Stephen Miles - No Replies

Peter Boyles Show - Wednesday, October 7, 1998

Peter Boyles transcript  10/7/1998

PB: Since this tragedy has begun, this is the 3rd mayor, 2nd chief of police, 2nd city manager. Maybe we can call Carol McKinley--I think Thurs is scheduled GJ day. What has happened inside Boulder since this began is very reflective. Stephen, why are you suing John Ramsey
PB: Because you believe John gave you up?
SM: All the comments were attributed to John--including the Enquirer---of course now they're saying different
PB: You get called into your neighbor's home one afternoon ---How far do you live from Ramsey home?
SM: It's 5 short blocks
PB: One afternoon, your neighbor said to come over to your house. What happened
SM: A gentleman there introduced himself from Enquirer---said "I'm pleased to meet you, I'm sorry to tell you ---our investigators have found that the Ram camp are intending to target you as a suspect in the killing of their daughter. We believe they're doing this to take attention away from themselves. Then they asked me questions like, why would they do that, and did I know them
PB: Did you know them?
SM: No
PB: How did the Enquirer get your name from John Ramsey?
SM: He said to me that our people said that John Ramsey intend to target you--at that point, my neighbor said to me, 'trust me, this is a real situation'
PB: How did you feel?
SM: I felt very cold and clammy--I'm sure I loked very pale at the time...and my God..

PB: : Sueing John Ramsey-- Stephen lived in the neighborhood of the Rams and was given up. Stephen, you know you're not the only one--there have been at least 6 that John has decided to attempt to make them the target. Lee, I know you're a good attorney. You gotta believe Fleet and Priscilla White? Can you talk about these things? My point is that Stephen certainly isn't the only one.

LH; A lot of people have been accused, I can only talk about Stephen. He wakes up one morning and his face is on the tabloids across the nation--and the articles continue about that. I have to say JR's attorneys insist he had nothing to do with this. This leaves us in position that we have to find everything we can to see where they came from.

PB: : Enquirer says 'our sources are good' Who did reporter say was his source?

SM; He wouldn't name him--said 'one of our investigators' that they're indeed very thorough.

LH; With Stephen, as near as we can determine, it's associated with an arrest made in '75---he has a reputation for art--someone told PD that it was pornographic---there was a party, PD came in--they seized some 2,000 photos and arrested him for pornography---after looking at all pictures etc--they determined that he hadn't taken any pornographic pictures. All those charges related to exploiting a child--were dismissed.

PB: : But someone knew that had happened?

LH: Absolutely. The dissolution of the case was the minor charge was Stephen buying alcoholic for a minor--all the other charges were dropped.

PB: : Do you believe that operating in Boulder were private investigators working for Rams were the ones that found this info on Stephen and gave it to someone who gave it to the Enquirer?

LH: It's possible. Haddon's office maintains nobody with that firm had anything to do with this story

PB: : Today there's no one left standing for the Rams, except Stines who left town. What's the chance that someone knew the story....

LH: There's so many possibilities---but we're trying. Stephen and his whole family have been casualties---putting blame on innocent people. We're determined to clear Stephen's name and the only way is to follow this

PB: : If Enquirer won't give up source, what are you going to do?

LH We're very hopeful that we will uncover the truth

PB: : What will be interesting is will what was done to me be done to the Enquirer? I want to see how a judge would treat Enquirer reporter. If they threaten them with jail, I would be a very surprised sob. I want to see JR or Enquirer hit for $20,000----so when is this going to happen?

LH: Thursday we have a big motion---we have a trial date set for February, but it's likely it will be continued

PB: : Will be interesting to me--about giving up sources--to see if there's equal justice . What's your bet on this

SM: There are a lot of uncanny similarities. I hate to take joy in your adversity here--but it's a real interesting course courts taken

PB: : All I want is to see the Rams treated as I was treated.. If there's such a thing as a shield law--I'd like to see it--it wasn't there for me. I've been hit for $44,000 total and never even had a trial. Let's do a little compare and contrast. Now you buys walk in there and let's see if they drop $44,000 on the Enquirer.

PB: (now he corrected it) I go way back, and have talked to Lee Hill, back when he was running for city council. Your platform was largely the R case.

LH: The platform was broader than that. Changes have been affected, so people were listening. There's a new interaction and mobilization.

PB: The is the third mayor, second chief of police, etc. What has happened in the city is amazing, and in the middle of this comes your client. Why are you suing the Enquirer?

LH: The headline on the NE attributed all of the remarks to the Ramsey camp.

PB: You get called into your neighbor's house. How far do you live from the R home?

SM: About five blocks.

PB: You go to the next door neighbor's home...

SM: A guy introduced himself as from the NE, (microphone trouble?) Our investigators have determined that the R camp are intending to target you.

PB: Had you ever met the R's?

SM: No, but my next door neighbor had.

PB: They were friends.

SM: Our invest. have determined that JR intends to target you. My neighbor said, trust me, this is a serious deal here.

PB: How did you feel?

SM: I felt cold and clammy...

PB: Suing JR, the attorney is Lee Hill. Stephen was given up, and your're not the only one, but you're the first one to sue him. You've got to believe, Priscilla White, Fleet White...

LH: Bear in mind the scale. SM wakes up one morning, and his picture is across the country accusing him of being a child murderer. JR's attorneys deny he had anything to do with it (my fingers are really slow today)

PB: Who did (David?) name as his source?

SM: He said they have a good team.

PB: Why do you think JR gave you up?

LH: With SM, this seems to have to do with the photograph of the 17 year-old. Someone must have called the police with this info. All of those charges having to do with the porn charges have been dismissed. The resolution of the case was not a big headline item.

PB: Operating in Boulder were private investigators working with the R camp. Do you think they found this out and bootlegged this info into the Haddon offices? What are the chances of some Boulder citizen, who knew the R's...

LH: We're determined to get to the bottom of this. Deflection of blame on innocent people.

PB: If the NE won't give up the source...

LH: We'll be checking other sources...

PB: What has been done to me, will it be done to the NE and JR? One of the reasons I have you here today, if they go after the NE, and threaten jail.

LH: I was going to ask you for briefs (as to your situation) We have a trial date set for next year.

PB: I want to see what they do on the other side of this. What's your bet as to how this will be handled?

LH: I almost take joy in your situation.

PB: That's ok. I just want to see how it's going to work on the other side.

LH: We want SM's name cleared.

PB: I was found guilty without a trial. $44 thousand and change. When you boys walk in there...

(man, my fingers are fumbling this morning...very glad Pan is there to get most of what is being said)

Interesting no mention of Judith Phillips by name. She is referred to as a friend and neighbor.

8. "cont"
Posted by Byron on 06:56:00 10/07/98

PB: Because the NE published...how did they get your photo that was on the cover?

SM: My next door neighbor is a photographer also. When she came over she said she needed a photo, and on the last shot, she asked me to clasp my hands behind my head.

PB: Do you think your neighbor give you up on this?

SM: No. LH: She has social relationship with the NE. PB: What was the text? LH: The text said JR intended to deflect attention from himself if he was indicted. PB: You want to talk to JR... LH: Yes, and PR, and anyone who has info on the case. PB: What do you think is going to happen? LH: We hope we can present to a jury. PB: I have a prediction, you won't get past... SM: It's how much justice can you afford... LH: It's one of the biggest lawfirms in the country. SM is impovershed, as is the lawyer PB: One of the reasons I asked these guys to be here, is they need help. Anyone in the audience who would like to help. LH: Basically, I don't want to pass the hat.We were fortunate enough to meet with the cybersleuths, I understand you did too, and they expressed an interest in helping. Phone is 303-449-9244. Lee Hill PO Box 21181 Boulder, Colo 80308. We appreciate the cybersleuth's help on the internet as well.

PB: For me it's a fascinating lawsuit to watch.

LH; This hearing is Thursday afternoon.

PB: And you'll be with us Friday morning to let us know what happened?

LH: Yes

(The neighbor was Judith Phillips and the reporter John South.   I understand they were veery close friends, Phillips and South.)

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  On Dave Lucas Radio show
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-14-2017, 05:40 PM - Forum: Judith Phillips - No Replies

The Dave Lucas Radio Show
April 3, 1999
Partial Transcript - Judith Phillips

[Image: colorbar.gif]


Dave Lucas: From the Internet we have Brenda on the line calling from North Carolina, right Brenda?

Brenda: That's right

Dave Lucas: Okay and she's got some questions for you Judith

Judith Phillips: Okay

Brenda: Yes, um, Judith, I would like to know why you sold the pictures you sold of JonBenet to the tabloids?

Judith Phillips: Um, I explained this on Larry King live before.

Brenda: I don't get CNN

Judith Phillips: Oh you don't

Brenda: No, so that's why I would like to know. It bothers me that you did that.

Judith Phillips: Well that's your opinion

Brenda: I mean it's kind of like the Linda Tripp of Boulder.

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda. I mean that's the way I see it

Judith Phillips: Well your entitled to your opinion and I have the photographs and I kept them secure in a safe for many many months because I was afraid somebody would break into my house and steal them.

Brenda: Ah eh.

Judith Phillips: And I had many many people at that particular time approaching me, ah, about the photographs that I was……

Brenda: See I would have admired you if you had kept them till it was all over and then done something with them but I think the time that they were released was sort of a disgusting thing to do. You know I was just wondering why you did it.

Judith Phillips: Well because, um, at that particular point I was approached, I was, I had several friends from the publication that approached me

Brenda: I mean was it for the money? Is that why you did it?

Judith Phillips: No it was not

Brenda: Okay

Judith Phillips: Because I had been um, constantly hounded by people who wanted to see my photographs and my photographs were quite different than what most people had seen before and I was not equipped nor did I want to be able to a photography agency to handle all those requests so the publication said they would do that for me.

Brenda: Did you offer it to the Ramsey's first?

Judith Phillips: Did I offer?

Brenda: The pictures

Judith Phillips: No I did not.

Brenda: Did you offer it to their family?

Judith Phillips: No, I did not

Brenda: You just took it on your own to put them in a tabloid, is that right?

Judith Phillips: Well I owned the pictures

Brenda: Yeah I know, I am aware of that

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda: I mean I was just asking the question. They weren't aware that you were going to do this with the pictures?

Judith Phillips: I don't know, I can't answer that

Dave Lucas: Judith, are there any other photographs that did not get released?

Brenda: (can't make out first part) I mean she could pick up a few hundred dollars you know

Judith Phillips: Well ah, are you finished now?

Brenda: Yeah, I was listening to you honey

Judith Phillips: Okay, well I think I am finished talking to you too.

Brenda: Okay, thanks

Dave Lucas: Okay, well thanks for your call.

End of transcript…………..

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  Police officers / detectives
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-11-2017, 01:12 PM - Forum: Some Important quotes - Replies (1)

"I have not seen any evidence that would be compelling to suggest that John and Patsy did kill their daughter at this point. And the evidence to me certainly suggests that someone committed the murder other than them."

Detective Steve Ainsworth  April 30, 2001  TODAY show on NBC

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  Atlanta confrontation
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 12:14 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (1)

From Westword

Several accounts of the trip to Atlanta have claimed that there was a "blow-up" between Fleet White and John Ramsey; some have even hinted that the meltdown had something to do with JonBenét's murder. The Ramseys' own account, in their book The Death of Innocence, doesn't go that far. But it does portray the Whites as unduly agitated, and Fleet's behavior, in particular, as erratic, "unreasonable" and vaguely threatening.
The Whites' version of what happened -- supported, to a significant degree, by contemporaneous notes and conversations with detectives -- is quite different. There was no blow-up, they insist, just a somewhat testy conversation between Fleet and Westmoreland, who took him aside and told him to "back off." The Ramseys had lawyers, private investigators and a crisis-management firm to look after them now, Westmoreland explained, and they were planning on staying in Atlanta.
"I got really pissed," Fleet says. "I said, 'You do that, and it's not going to go anybody's way.' And I told Priscilla, 'We've got to get out of here and go talk to John.'"

The Whites visited with Jeff Ramsey, John's brother, then tracked John down at the home of Patsy's parents, Don and Nedra Paugh. The conversation was passionate but hardly menacing, the Whites say. "We just laid out a case for John about why he needed to go back to Boulder," Fleet recalls. "I told him, 'What you do in the next 24 hours is going to define the rest of your life. You need to talk to the cops. Patsy needs to talk to the cops. We all need to do that and find out what happened to JonBenét.'"
Ramsey listened calmly, leaving the room a couple of times to take phone calls. The Whites assumed he was speaking with his attorneys. Patsy was nowhere to be seen. At one point John returned and announced that he was going to offer a $50,000 reward for information about his daughter's death.
"You're going to sound like O.J.," Priscilla said.
By the end of the session, Ramsey was assuring the Whites that he and Patsy would return to Boulder. Far from being incensed, the Ramseys invited the couple to brunch at the Paughs' on New Year's Day. The Whites arrived and learned that John and Patsy were scheduled to appear on CNN later that day. Priscilla helped Patsy, who was still heavily medicated, get ready for her close-up, urging her to not to wear her diamond ring and mink coat. John Ramsey would later claim that it was Fleet White's idea for the parents to appear on national television and defend themselves; Fleet denies it, saying he was intent on getting the Ramseys to cooperate with the police. Priscilla remembers the two men sitting together on a couch that morning, talking earnestly and holding hands for several minutes before the Whites left for the airport.
That was the last conversation of any substance the Whites ever had with John and Patsy Ramsey. Fleet saw them once at church after they returned -- there are conflicting versions of that meeting, too -- but that was it. The Whites had been exiled from the inner circle.

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Bug Odd to say the least
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 11:58 AM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (2)

OK, so reviewing some news stories and opinion pieces, it was reported Priscilla White didn't think the pageants were a good idea so she gave Patsy a copy of this book.

My question - no questions - would be...
Why was Priscilla reading a book on troublesome teenage daughters when her daughter was all of 6?
Why would she think this was an appropriate gift for Patsy?  I jmean, I know Patsy had older step-children but they were good kids, there were no problems there.

I just think it very odd.

SURVIVING OPHELIA: Mothers Share Their Wisdom in Navigating the Tumultuous Teenage Years
Cheryl Dellasega, Author
[Image: w204.jpg]
If there were any doubt that Mary Pipher's 1994 bestseller Reviving Ophelia spawned a virtual cottage industry about teenage girls at risk, the latest Ophelia-related title by psychologist Dellasega (a clinician at Penn State's College of Medicine) lays it to rest. The book follows close on the heels of Ophelia's Mom (Forecasts, June 25), Nina Shandler's response to her daughter Sara's 1999 bestseller, Ophelia Speaks. Both Dellasega and Shandler have chosen to use Sara Shandler's approach and collect various essays, but while Nina Shandler structured each chapter of her book around specific problems, such as drugs or school, Dellasega chooses a more sprawling, conversational approach. Her chapters discuss the types of responses that out-of-control daughters elicit in their mothers, from special mother-daughter moments to explosive anger and regret. Despite the uneven quality of the selections (they range from thoughtful to clichéd), they share a raw immediacy that may help other moms. In fact, Dellasega credits some of the pieces with giving her the courage to send her daughter, Ellen, to a "wilderness program" to overcome anorexia. Like the mother who penned the excerpt "Tears from a Rose," the contributors are women who have tried to do their best, even when that wasn't always enough. "What happens when you do everything as right as you can, and it all goes wrong?" she questions. Interwoven throughout are Dellasega's ongoing concerns about Ellen, now 17. While it's obvious that the author wrote the book to overcome her struggles with her own teenager, there are lessons here that will help every mother dealing with an adolescent daughter.

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  Paul Hidalgo - artist?
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 10:42 AM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (1)

Artist regrets Ramsey mural
By Mary George
Denver Post Staff Writer

March 13 - Paul Hidalgo, the University of Colorado art student whose mural juxtaposing JonBenet Ramsey with the words "Daddy's little hooker" sparked an uproar, was having plenty of second thoughts Wednesday evening. "This was a fiasco," the 21-year-old senior said after spending the day stonewalling reporters' questions, then seeing himself portrayed unfavorably on television news, receiving a threatening phone call, being notified he has violated copyright law and facing possible legal challenges because of his display. "This really makes me question the media and what they go for," he said. "I was the perfect story.'' The story took shape Wednesday when reporters - from local outlets to national tabloid TV - discovered his display on two, 25-foot expanses of lime green wall in the Sibell Wolle fine arts building. On the first wall, foot-high block letters stenciled in dark blue declare "Daddy's little hooker" over three copies of the glamour photo of JonBenet that Newsweek ran on its cover in January. On the far wall, in 4-foot-high letters, is stenciled the word "look" to the right of an arrow pointing back to the first wall. JonBenet, a 6-year-old beauty queen, was found murdered 11 weeks ago today in her Boulder home. Her killing remains under investigation. She was strangled, sexually assaulted and her skull was fractured. Hidalgo finished setting up the mural at 2 a.m. Monday in space routinely used for short-term student displays. Twice - on Monday and again Wednesday - someone tore down the photos. Shortly after noon Wednesday, news and broadcast photographers and reporters filled the hallway. Hidalgo had told them to be there at 12:30 p.m., when he'd replace the photos. When asked at that time what it meant, he gave a stock reply: "My art speaks for itself.'' But after hearing what others thought played across the television screen, Hidalgo decided to try to end the speculation. He created the mural to air his opinion that "the people involved in this case are definitely tied to the crime committed," and to protest child pageantry, he said Wednesday evening. "I think exposing young and impressionable children to this institution (of pageantry) is a terrible act," he said. Earlier in the day, Merrill Lessley, interim chairman of the fine arts department, called the display "hurtful" but defended Hidalgo's right to express himself.Art student Sarah Pace said: "People have every right to say what they want - the tabloids do it. This is a reflection of what our society is all about.'' And associate professor of art history Vernon Minor called the display "unsophisticated, sensationalist, mean. . . . It stinks as a work of art, except for the fact that it got attention.'' By evening, Hidalgo was saying, "I'm going to be really glad when this is all over. I learned a lot about myself and I'm maybe questioning what my real ambitions are. I'd always thought I would like a public life, but I'm not sure I'm fit for it.

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  Just wondering
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-10-2017, 09:27 AM - Forum: To submit a tip - Replies (72)

Going down a list of employees for Access Graphics - doing a quick search of names to see if any are on sex offender lists, especially Colorado sex offender lists.

Now, I want to note that there may be a dozen people in Colorado with the same name and I am not sure if ANY of these people worked at AG - - but I started this search and felt some others may be interested in seeing what I have found.  

Maybe something I find will prompt someone to step up with information.

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  Tal Jones
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-09-2017, 02:10 PM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (1)

Posted long ago (years) by BIZ

There is another story I just thought of that I would like to bring to
 everyones attention. Tom Miller was married to Judith Phillips, a former 
wife of the Ramsey's friend Gary Phillips. He and Patsy worked together in Atlanta and 
they reconnected in Boulder since both had moved there. 
 From what I know Gary and Judith divorced, he moved to Boulder. Judith later followed him to Boulder,
 then Judith hooked up with a slime ball lawyer named Thomas Cecil
 "Doc" Miller. Doc Miller had some connection to the sale of the ransom
 note the tabloids along with Richard Talfryn "Tal" Jones aka Sprague.
 Tal is a step brother to Gwen Boykin the godaughter of Fleet Senior
 that I mentioned earlier. Tal worked for Doc Miller  as a paralegal or
 something. So did a lady by the name of Pamela Hadas. I spoke with
 Pamela Hadas for about an hour on the phone one day and she had alot
 to say, most of it was backed up by court records I later researched.
 Pamela told me that the day after the murder Tal Jones came to the
 office and told Doc that he had just spoke to Fleet White and he told
 him in confidence that Burke was the killer. Pamela said that same day
 that Doc Miller and Tal had gotten in to a physical fight in the
 office and Doc put a knife to Tal's throat. She didn't know what the
 arguement was about but she and other employees were able to break it
 up. Mary Suma didn't think that Tal knew Fleet at this point but
 Pamela claimed they did. Tal has often been described by Lou and Mary
 as Fleet's henchmen. He circulated the internet forums trying to waive
 public opinion. At one point he even
 tried to intervene with the grand jury proceedings. So it appears to
 me that  either Fleet started this rumor about Burke or Tal Jones did.
 I have to wonder why? Burke was a 9 year old child. What were they
 thinking? Were they trying to drive attention away from someone else?
 Alyce Christoff, Gwen's mother said after the murder that she wouldn't
 be surprised if Tal had something to do with it. He has always been on
 mine and Mary's list of suspects for that reason. Nancy Krebs also
 mentioned him in her deposition.
 From everything I researched Doc was a real slime ball. Pamela Hadas
 was his former high school teacher. She is a literary scholar and
 poet. They ran in to one another near Boulder and he told her that he
 wanted to learn poetry. He then hired her to work in his office as a
 legal aid. Pamela had lent him a substantial amount of money at one
 point. He was later able to commit her to a mental ward for a period
 of time, put her house in to his name, and transfer all of her money
 to himself. She was eventually able to get out of the mental ward and
 file a lawsuit against him. The jury wanted to award her far more than
 the court would allow. However, she never received a dime from Doc
 Miller. He put his house in Judith's name, she sold it and Dr. Pamela
 Hadas got nothing.(see attached court document)  I found the woman to
 be perfectly sane and stable when I spoke to her.  I found this is a
 strategy Doc Miller has done to others. If I recall correctly he has
 had at least one or two of his employees put in to mental wards, he
 also had one of his clients put in to a mental ward. His parents were
 threatening to sue him for doing nothing in their son's case after
 taking a huge amount of money. How can so many people around him all
 be crazy?  In any case he does not appear to be a very good person.

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