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  GJ Juror spoke out on DNA
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 06:21 PM - Forum: DNA - more technical discussions - No Replies

Ramsey grand juror welcomes new DNA tests, discusses reasons for indicting parents
But juror says DNA didn't play big role in deliberations
By Charlie Brennan

Staff Writer
Posted: 12/16/2016 03:28:33 PM MST

Members of the Boulder County grand jury that investigated the JonBenet Ramsey case leave the Justice Center after the panel was disbanded on Oct. 13,
Members of the Boulder County grand jury that investigated the JonBenet Ramsey case leave the Justice Center after the panel was disbanded on Oct. 13, 1999.(Camera file photo)

A JonBenet Ramsey case grand juror on Friday applauded the news that there is to be a new round of DNA testing in the unsolved investigation, but is unsure that it will necessarily lead to the killer's identity.

Also, exclusively to the Daily Camera, the juror cited key reasons that the grand jury voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey in their child's Christmas night 1996 murder — indictments never prosecuted by then-Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter, due to his belief there was insufficient evidence to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt.

"I am glad to hear that there will be new DNA testing," said the juror, who offered the comments based on assurance of anonymity.

The Ramsey grand jury heard evidence in the case from September 1998 to October 1999 before it was disbanded.

"I'm also feeling doubtful that it will bring the killer to justice," the juror said. "But I know that other cases are being solved after much time has passed with new technology, so perhaps this can be, too."

The juror had seen the news on Tuesday when it was reported that, following a joint investigation by the Camera and 9NEWS raising concerns about the DNA-based exoneration of the Ramsey family, police and prosecutors are planning to submit certain evidence to the latest generation of DNA testing.

"I was happy to see that it's moving forward," the juror said, "but not that hopeful of a resolution."

Until now, it has never been known to what extent DNA evidence — far less advanced in the late 1990s than it is today — had influenced the jury's decision- making process.

Not very much, according to this juror.

"To me, it seemed like the DNA evidence was just inconclusive. I don't remember it playing a major role in our discussions, because what did it mean?" the juror said. "It didn't seem to include or exclude anyone."

A subsequent round of additional DNA testing on which then-District Attorney Mary Lacy based her July 9, 2008, exoneration letter — which has repeatedly been dismissed as "meaningless" by her successor, Stan Garnett — was not initiated until late in 2007, eight years after the Ramsey grand jury disbanded.

Multiple experts contacted this year through the Camera/9NEWS investigation said Lacy's letter greatly overstated the certainty or clarity of the results reached through that later round of testing. Those experts also said there was no way to state — as Lacy did — that the DNA profile identified by her office as "Unknown Male 1" had to be that of JonBenet's killer.

Reasons for the Ramsey indictment

The grand juror briefly laid out several reasons central to why the grand jury voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey.

The reasons offered by the juror are:

• "No evidence of an intruder. No footprints in the snow, no physical evidence left behind."

• "The killer was in the house for hours between the blow to the head and the strangling."

• "The location of the body in a hard-to-find room."

• "The ransom note written in the house with weird personal information and never a ransom call."

• The juror, after rattling off those points, then posed a question: "Also, how much evidence is there really that this was a sex crime?"

The grand jury indictments of the Ramseys remained perhaps the best-kept secret of the star-crossed case until January 2013, when it was first reported by the Camera that the jury had voted to indict both parents on charges of child abuse resulting in death.

A reporter's subsequent lawsuit resulted in an October 2013 decision by a judge to unseal those indictments, which not only confirmed the indictments' existence, but also revealed that both parents also had been indicted on a second charge, that of accessory to an unidentified third person in the crime of first-degree murder.
Holiday stirs memories

Patsy Ramsey died in 2006, after a 13-year battle with ovarian cancer. Both of JonBenet's parents steadfastly asserted their innocence in the case, and have said that an unknown killer broke into their home while the family was attending a Christmas night party, then waited for the family to return and retire to bed before targeting JonBenet.

JonBenet was found Dec. 26, 1996, in a little-used basement room, having suffered a fractured skull and asphyxiation by a garrote. A strip of duct tape covered her mouth and her wrists were loosely bound.

Patsy Ramsey reported finding a 2-½ page ransom note shortly before dawn that day, demanding the unusual sum of $118,000 for her child's safe return. There was never any attempt to actually collect on that demand prior to JonBenet's body being discovered by her father and a family friend early that afternoon.

The juror confessed to "not doing much at all" for Christmas this season, which marks 20 years since JonBenet was buried in a Marietta, Ga., graveyard with her killer's identity still a mystery.

However, the juror said, the holiday certainly triggers many thoughts about the tragedy.

"Yes, a lot of things can spark a memory of the case, and a lot of them are tied to Christmas," the juror said. "So, I do remember her this time of year. I still feel sad that we weren't able to help JonBenet."

Charlie Brennan: 303-473-1327, brennanc@dailycamera.com or twitter.com/chasbrennan

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  John Andrew's room
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 03:42 PM - Forum: Rooms - No Replies

From 2001 documentary

Lou Smit was giving a tour of the house.

"This is the door to JonBenét's room and right over here is the door to the guest bedroom.
and there was a real interesting thing that we found out about this room. This window overlooks the garage and the driveway and would be a great vantage point for anyone that would want to see if the Ramseys were coming home that night.
What's interesting about this room Also what was real interesting in this room we did see that some of the drawers in the bathroom right off the bedroom were partially open which look like they were out of place.
Also in this room there was a rope and we don't know where that rope came from. No one can explain why that rope is in this room.
Also what's real interesting in this room, and it's just a small detail, but there was a dust ruffle all the way around the bed that was tucked in except for just a small area right in front of the bed. It seem to have been pulled out. Now does that mean that killer may have been under that bed, we just don't know. But its just an observation.
The dust ruffle is just one of the small things that detectives look for."

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  Lou Smit's thoughts
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 03:25 PM - Forum: Linguistics - Ransom Note - Replies (3)

From 2001 documentary:

"Is the ransom note an important clue in this case?    Its one of the most important clues left behind by our killer.
first of all it was written in a very calm and careful manner and a very deliberate manner. The person was not writing in panic.
I have interviewed many many murderers and even psychopaths after a murder
They're extremely agitated.    It is very difficult for them even to sit down, In my estimation there is just absolutely no way that they could have written that note after that murder."

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  Psychic thread
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 02:15 PM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (1)

#1 -

Quote: 1997-04-21: STAR MAGAZINE: "JonBenet Names Her Killer: It's not who you think it is!"

Week of April 21, 1997:

The SUN's cover reads "JonBenet Names Her Killer: It's not who you think it is!"

"The man who murdered little beauty JonBenet is a Ted Bundy like drifter who stalked the six-year-old for months before making his murderous move and he will strike again very soon if he's not collared by cops. So warns America's top psychic investigator Warren Freiberg. The respected radio-TV medium got his description of the killer from the most knowledgeable source possible-the victim-during a chilling seance at his home in Munster, Indiana.

Like most Americans following the heartwrenching murder investigation, Freiberg expected the girl to name her father or mother as the one responsible for sending her to a tragically early grave. However, he soon found the friend is not only unrelated to JonBenet's family, but is also a depraved drifter who's ready to strike again hundreds of miles away from the little girl's home.

From JonBenet's description of the killer, Freiberg drew a mental image of a tall, handsome man with delicate facial features and a small scar above his left eye. The psychic tried to comfort the troubled youngster, but her voice grew even more harsh and quaking as she continued with the story of her last moments of life.

The hovering spirit spoke: I don't know how Jim got in my house, but I wasn't afraid because I had seen him at some of the pageants. I asked him where mommy was and his face changed. . .he scared me when he grabbed me by the arm and said, You're my child now! I started to cry, but he put his hand over my mouth. I could not talk or yell for mom or dad. Then he started to do things to me. . .things that hurt and made me cry more. Then he put a rope around my neck and I couldn't breathe. I tried to fight him and I prayed my mommy or anyone would come to help me. . .I was frightened and alone. I hoped he would let me go, but he didn't. Please make sure he never does what he did to me to anyone else. Hurry. . .Jim is making friends with anther little girl with blonde hair who enters beauty pageants like me.

Freiberg says that he sees the killer targeting another pretty six-year-old pageant contestant. I hope I'm wrong, but I see this sicko killing again by mid-July. The top psychic, who has assisted with dozens of police investigations in the past, believes there is a sharp Sun reader out there who will lead homicide detectives to this murderer known to JonBenet as Jim"

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  Why bother?
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 01:02 PM - Forum: Reward offered until 12/31/2017 - No Replies

I have been told this is not going to be solved, why bother putting money aside for a reward when we are going to be living on just a bit less when I am paying for rewards, ads, Internet forums, travel....

Today I was going through an old story and Gaby Wood was talking about meeting with Michael Tracey - - and this section reminded me of exactly why.


When Tracey pulled the image out of the manila envelope, I thought it was one I had already seen - a close-up of JonBenet's neck, designed to show the garrotte and the marks thought to have been made by a stun gun. But I noticed Tracey only pulled half the picture out of the envelope. The photographs I had seen were not close-ups but crops of this one. On instinct, I reached for the photo and pulled it out a little further. JonBenet's face came into view. She was lying down, and shot in profile. Her mouth was slightly open, her eyes were closed. If the photo had been in black and white, so that her skin's bluish tinge was invisible, you might have thought that she was merely asleep - until your eyes were drawn down to the fine blonde hair trapped under the cord with which she had been strangled. I looked at this photograph only briefly; in an unforeseeable split second I felt suddenly, swimmingly sick. Tracey's voice became background noise. Come on, I told myself, you're not squeamish. But back she came, the seemingly sleeping child. I started to sweat.

Later, I realized what it was about the photo that had haunted me: it was so ordinary. Over the course of many conversations, I'd become accustomed to hearing of 'the garrotted neck', 'the fingernails', 'the blood in the underpants'; these things were never hers. And the infamous pageant photos, haunting in their own perverse, made-up way, put her at several removes from herself. So in our minds she seems to have gone from icon to crime-lab fodder without passing through the most obvious and fundamental incarnation. I expected her body to look unrecognizable in some way, to be bloody or obscured or overly clinical. The last thing I expected it to be was what she was: a little girl.

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  Gaby Wood
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 12:22 PM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (3)

on a lot of people

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  relating to John Mark Karr
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-20-2017, 12:00 PM - Forum: Michael Tracey - Replies (4)

First, let me say I admire Michael Tracey for doing everything in his power to see this case solved.  Including dealing with John Mark Karr.

Then let me say I am sorry he didn't include me in his efforts with JMK because I really would have been more impartial and told him the guy was lying.  He has JonBenét being injured in ways she was not - - and he missed some things we knew to be fact.  (The stun gun)  AND, he had some other mistakes - like where she was killed - he said it was next to the broken window and it was at the other end of the basement that she wet herself - - he was just wrong.

So Tracey was wrong about Karr - - and he made a few other mistakes as well.  But at least he tried to advance the investigation and for that he gets brownie points in the next life.

This thread is going to be about Tracey and the emails he exchanged with John Mark Karr.    They are not as bad as the taped phone conversations, but I post to let others see just what JMK was saying.

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  John on Christmas Morning....
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 03-20-2017, 10:41 AM - Forum: Christmas Day, 1996 - Replies (3)

John Ramsey on Christmas Morning... 

DOI (HB) Page 5:

"While the kids played with their gifts, Patsy and I went to the kitchen to prepare our traditional Christmas morning breakfast of pancakes, bacon, corn beef hash, and hash browns. I usually made the pancakes, so I got all the ingredients together while Patsy set the table and cooked the rest of the breakfast. JonBenet always loved to get into the act and was right under my elbows, standing on a stool by the stove, to help pour the pancake batter. She normally liked to make a Mickey Mouse shape and decorate it at the table with fruit and raisins to make the face come to life, but there wasn't time for that on this Christmas Day. Too many new things to play with. Burke came to the table just long enough to eat a bite. As far as he was concerned, eating got in the way of playing."

07-09-1998 A&E Documentary
'Who Killed JonBenet’
By Michael Tracy and David Mills

John Ramsey: "She was a spark-plug in our family. She was a ball of energy. That's just something you can't not remember."

Man: "Christmas morning, 1996. On that day, JonBenet woke early."

John Ramsey: "I can remember Burke and JonBenet running up to our bed to get us up. The little kids would pass out the gifts to whoever they were for and we would go around the room and open each gift – We did that that morning."

Man: "This is the next to last photograph of JonBenet. John Ramsey took it that morning."

John Ramsey: "JonBenet had gotten a bicycle that Christmas and we played most of the day. We were going to go out to dinner and I remember we were trying to get everybody organized to leave and JonBenet was on her bike and wanted me to take her around the block. I said, no - no we don't have time, we'll do this later. She said, "Oh Daddy please," and I can remember that and that kind of hurts because we didn't do that."

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  Ramsey Christmas letter, 1996
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 03-20-2017, 10:17 AM - Forum: Christmas Day, 1996 - Replies (2)

Ramsey family Christmas Letter, 1996

Dear Friends & Family,

It's been another busy year at the Ramsey household. Can't believe its almost over and time to start again!

Melinda (24) graduated from Medical College of Georgia and is working in Pediatric ICU at Kennestone Hospital in Atlanta. John Andrew (20) is a Sophomore at the University of Colorado.

Burke is a busy fourth grader where he really shines in math and spelling. He played flag football this fall and is currently on a basketball binge! His little league team was #1. He's lost just about all of his baby teeth, so I'm sure we'll be seeing the orthodontist in 1997!

JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school.' Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named "America's Royale Tiny Miss" last summer and is Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral book report!

John is always on the go travelling hither and yon. Access recently celebrated its one billion $$ mark in sales, so he's pretty happy! He and his crew were underway in the Port Huron to Mackinac Island yacht race in July, but had to pull out mid way due to lack of wind. (Can you believe that?) But, his real love is the new 'old looking' boat, Grand Season, which he spent months designing.

I spend most of my 'free time' working in the school and doing volunteer work. The Charlevoix house was on the home tour in July and will likely appear in one of the Better Homes & Gardens publications in 1997. On a recent trip to NYC, my friend and I appeared amid the throng of fans on the TODAY show. Al Roker & Bryant actually talked to us and we were on camera for a few fleeting moments!

We are all enjoying continued good health and look forward to seeing you in 1997! One final note ... thank you to all my 'friends' and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest, most outrageous 40th birthday bash I've ever had! We'll be spending my actual birthday on the Disney Big Red Boat over the new year!

Merry Christmas and much love,
The Ramseys

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  List of Christmas gifts... 1996
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 03-20-2017, 10:14 AM - Forum: Christmas Day, 1996 - Replies (1)

List of Christmas gifts... 1996

Burke got Nintendo64 · (DOI- page 2)
Burke got a remote control car · (DOI- page 3)
John got a gumball machine · (DOI- page 4)
JonBenet got a bicycle · (DOI- page 2)
JonBenet got a My Twinn Doll ·( DOI- pages 3, 4, 32, 242)
JonBenet got a gold bracelet · ( DOI- page 344)
JonBenet got a ring from Nedra ·( National Enquirer book- page 51)
JonBenet got a necklace from Pam · ( NE book page -51)
Patsy got a bicycle · (DOI- page 3)
Patsy got green paper ornament · ( DOI- page 274)

March 18th,2000
Death of Innocence 

DOI Page 274:

"Then Haney asked if I remembered what JonBenet had gotten me for Christmas, and I became very emotional. I remembered a little green construction paper ornament JonBenet had made in her class at school. When I had opened it on December 25, 1996, I saw her school picture with the message: "your gift is ME." How true, how very, very true. I had thought the ornament was lost in the shuffle, but Trip DeMuth assured me they had it in their possession. Of all the hundreds of items that were confiscated from both of our homes, that is the one item I most want returned."

DOI Page 344:

"I had given her a tiny gold bracelet on the evening of December 23, 1996, placing it on her wrist in much the same way Mike was doing now. It was the evening of our family Christmas party, and since she was all dressed up, I had decided to let her open the gift early so she could wear it during the holiday. The bracelet was inscribed with her name on the front and on the back with the date she was actually supposed to receive it: 12-25-96. I hope I can someday get that bracelet back. It's part of the vast number of items still in police custody."

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