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  The wet bed
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 04:59 PM - Forum: Disproving Myths - Replies (2)

      First, the crime scene photo

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  misleading other LE? Experts?
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 04:49 PM - Forum: Misleading the media - Replies (1)

"Thomas depo 42 - prosecution"
 
  
Q. Do you know of any prosecutor who is familiar with the evidence that has concluded that the
evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt that Patsy Ramsey is guilty of the homicide of her
daughter?

A. No, because the prosecutors privy to that evidence are bound by grand jury secrecy and none
have violated that with me.
Q. Did you ever take this case to a prosecutor? I know you all had the Dream Team that was
helping the police department. I want to know whether you ever had a prosecutor outside of the seven
that were involved in this case that at least Mr. Hunter tells us did not believe that sufficient evidence
existed to charge and prosecute Patsy Ramsey. Did you ever take it to a prosecutor and present it to
ask someone else outside of Boulder whether that prosecutor believed that this case had evidence
justifying prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; did you ever do that?
A. Did we ever pack up our or me case file and take it and do a presentation for an outside
prosecutor to see if he thought or would prosecute this case? No, not that I'm aware of.
Q. Did you ever do it at any time as you sit here today?
A. Take it to a prosecutor?
Q. Did you take your information, what you knew in all those hundred of pages, that hopefully you'll
be able to find now that you'll go look for them in response to that subpoena, and take that to an
experienced prosecutor and say, give me your opinion on whether this justifies a prosecution in terms of
whether this is sufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? Did you ever do that?
That's my question.
A. No, I have friends that are prosecutors but I never went and did a case presentation of any sort
to try to elicit their support in moving forward with the prosecution.
Q. All right. Or to give you an opinion on what the evidence pro and con would say to an
experienced prosecutor?
A. I don't know what you're referring to, Mr. Wood.
Q. You would have to give them your evidence and you would have to give them the intruder
evidence and you would have to say, please, weigh this and tell me because I don't like Alex Hunter
and I don't believe that Alex Hunter is doing the right thing in not filing charges or getting an indictment
and tell me if you think as an experienced prosecutor the case is here to bring charges; did you ever do
that?
A. No, I never had some sort of case presentation like that, no.

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  from Steve Thomas depo
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 04:33 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (3)

http://www.webbsleuths.org/showthread.php?tid=665

I posted this under LE - Steve Thomas but will link here

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  Ramseys had copies of all LE records
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:28 PM - Forum: Disproving Myths - No Replies

from Steve Thomas' deposition:

"Thomas depo 43 - sharing evidence"
 
  
Q. You indicated at page 297 of your book consistent with the Boulder police, I will tell you a press
release in June of '98 that you all had collected 1,058 items of evidence. Does that sound about right?

A. You know, this was a Beckner --
Q. It's at page 297 in your book.
A. I know.
Q. You adopted it as true, didn't you?
A. If I can answer the question.
Q. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to move along.
A. Beckner put together this as, I think you're right, as some sort of a press release, but I don't
disagree with these numbers.
Q. How many of those 1,058 pieces of evidence were shared with the Ramseys or the Ramsey
lawyers?
A. I don't know.
Q. You consulted 500 -- you interviewed 590 people. How many of those interviews were given to
the Ramseys or the Ramseys' lawyers?
A. I don't know.
Q. Consulted 64 outside experts. How many of those experts' reports were given to the Ramseys'
lawyers or the Ramseys --
A. Mr. Wood, you would know much better than I how much --
Q. I've got to tell you, Mr. Thomas, I do know and I've got about 14 pages and I could be off by one
or two and yet everybody keeps describing this incredible amount of evidence given to the Ramseys
and their lawyers. I'm just trying to go figure out where it is because that's not what I've got and that's
not what their lawyer has got. I mean, I understand they got to see the garrote and I understand they
got to see the first generation ransom note and I didn't get that. But I got the few pages, incomplete
pages of police reports that were bargained off with respect to the April '97 interview, right?
A. (Deponent nods head.)
Q. And I don't have any more reports. I don't know of any others that were given to John and Patsy
Ramsey according to their lawyers and I'm just trying to figure out what you were talking about when
you say you were describing on page 56 the incredible amount of evidence given to the Ramseys and
their lawyers?
A. Courtesy of Pete Hofstrom and I believe others in the DA's office who did this verbally so much
was shared by Pete Hofstrom's own admission. If you're just talking about hard copy documents, I
don't know what they do or you do or don't have.

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  info from others
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:16 PM - Forum: Judith Phillips - Replies (3)

starting with Frank Coffman


"10 . "uncorroborated stories"
Posted by MaskedMan on May-04-00 at 11:19 AM (EST)
Steve Thomas presents many unsourced and uncorroborated stories.

On page 5, he presents the improbable story that JonBenet was chilly at a restaurant,
but Patsy wouldn't let her put on a jacket because "You're still on show." Steve Thomas
didn't identify his source, but I know that this is one of Judith Phillips' urban legends.
When I aksed Judith about where and when this episode happened, she said that she
didn't know and that she didn't see it herself. She said someone else had seen it. I
asked her, "Who saw it?" She wouldn't tell me. So, this is just an unverified third-hand
rumor.
Judith has done this repeatedly. She's lied to me about what she supposedly knows. She
would claim to have first-hand knowledge about something, but then she'd change her
story when I tried to pin her down. For instance:
Judith told me that Priscilla White had told her that John Ramsey tried to discourage
Fleet White from entering the wine cellar room on Dec. 26, 1996. I believed that story
for a long time. She was the source for a story to that effect in the National Enquirer of
April 1997. When I found out later that that never happened, I asked Judith how Priscilla
could have been so wrong about that. Then, Judith admitted that, uh, well, she didn't
hear the story directly from Priscilla, but from someone else...
Steve Thomas used Judith for several dubious stories. She is the anonymous "family
friend" whom Steve Thomas mentions. It wouldn't occur to Steve to double-check his
information, since any story unfavorable to the Ramseys is automatically true to him.
Positive stories, of course, don't appear in his book. "

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  Patsy denied JonBenet a sweater and more
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:15 PM - Forum: Disproving Myths - No Replies

"10 . "uncorroborated stories"
Posted by MaskedMan on May-04-00 at 11:19 AM (EST)
Steve Thomas presents many unsourced and uncorroborated stories.

On page 5, he presents the improbable story that JonBenet was chilly at a restaurant,
but Patsy wouldn't let her put on a jacket because "You're still on show." Steve Thomas
didn't identify his source, but I know that this is one of Judith Phillips' urban legends.
When I aksed Judith about where and when this episode happened, she said that she
didn't know and that she didn't see it herself. She said someone else had seen it. I
asked her, "Who saw it?" She wouldn't tell me. So, this is just an unverified third-hand
rumor.
Judith has done this repeatedly. She's lied to me about what she supposedly knows. She
would claim to have first-hand knowledge about something, but then she'd change her
story when I tried to pin her down. For instance:
Judith told me that Priscilla White had told her that John Ramsey tried to discourage
Fleet White from entering the wine cellar room on Dec. 26, 1996. I believed that story
for a long time. She was the source for a story to that effect in the National Enquirer of
April 1997. When I found out later that that never happened, I asked Judith how Priscilla
could have been so wrong about that. Then, Judith admitted that, uh, well, she didn't
hear the story directly from Priscilla, but from someone else...
Steve Thomas used Judith for several dubious stories. She is the anonymous "family
friend" whom Steve Thomas mentions. It wouldn't occur to Steve to double-check his
information, since any story unfavorable to the Ramseys is automatically true to him.
Positive stories, of course, don't appear in his book. "



(Remember, MaskedMan was Frank Coffman.)

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  Judith Phillip's views
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 02:11 PM - Forum: Pageants - Replies (2)

From Steve Thomas' deposition

Q. Take a look, if you would, at page 45 of your book. Second -- actually, first full paragraph. "An
acquaintance said that JonBenet was rebelling against appearing in the child beauty contests. She was
being pushed into the pageants by her mother and grandmother, said the witness." Who is that
individual?

A. I believe that was Judith Phillips.
Q. Did you find Judith Phillips to be credible?
A. At times.
Q. At times she was not credible?
A. No, I think Judith Phillips, like many others in Boulder, were devastated by this crime and she had
tough moments, I'm sure.
Q. Do you think John and Patsy Ramsey had tough moments because they would have been devastated by the death of their daughter?
A. They certainly may have.

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  Other ways to get in or out
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 12:07 PM - Forum: Broken window/ Spider web - Replies (8)

I am not 100% sure the killer went in or out the basement window.  Especially if he had been in the house more than once.    Here from Steve Thomas' deposition is information on other ways the killer might have gone in.

Q. There was clearly an indication from a member of the Boulder Police Department that they found
at least seven doors and windows unlocked at the Ramsey home on the morning of December 26,
1996. You remember that, don't you?

A. I've heard that referred to. I don't know -- what detective are you referring to?
Q. Have you heard that, sir? Has that not been part of a presentation made to you?
A. By Lou Smit or Mr. DeMuth?
Q. Either one.
A. What presentation are you talking about?
Q. There were two presentations, one in May and one in June. You attended both, true?
A. I did.
Q. You took notes, didn't you?
A. I may have.
Q. You paid careful attention to what was being said, didn't you?
A. I believe so.
Q. Have you ever heard that there were seven windows and doors found unlocked in the Ramsey
home on the morning of December 26, 1996?
A. I don't know who the source of that is right now but I --
Q. I didn't ask you the source. I asked you have you ever heard it, sir?
A. Yeah.
MR. DIAMOND: Have you heard that from any source?
A. Yeah.
Q. (BY MR. WOOD) From someone connected with the investigation, either in the district
attorney's office or the Boulder Police Department?
A. Or courtesy of you and the media, yeah, I believe I've heard that.
Q. Trust me, I wasn't there the morning of the 26th and I didn't find the status of the doors. I'm
asking you whether --
A. Nor was I, no.
Q. And I don't think I was around in May or June when the presentations were made. You heard
that a Boulder police officer had found as many as seven doors and windows unlocked in that house on
the morning of December 26, 1996, hadn't you, sir?
A. You're sourcing that to a -- now to a Boulder police officer detective and that's not my
recollection; DeMuth may have said that.
Q. Do you think Trip DeMuth made it up out of a whole cloth?
A. I don't know where Trip DeMuth uncovered a lot of things in his investigation.
Q. So you think that there was -- you feel like you can competently say that's not true, that there
were no doors found unlocked or windows found unlocked that morning?
A. I wasn't there that morning.
Q. Well, sir, you were not but you have to rely, as you say earlier in your testimony, on your fellow
officers, right?
A. That's right.
Q. All right. Well, did you go back and ever look to see if there were ever any reports that would
have indicated that there were as many as seven windows and doors found unlocked in that house that
morning?
A. I'm not familiar with the detective or the report you're speaking about.

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  Ramsey family history discussed
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 12:04 PM - Forum: THE KILLER - Replies (2)

From Steve Thomas' deposition


Q. Who is the pediatric expert that thought that there may have been some corporal punishment
inflicted on JonBenet for repeated bed wetting?
A. Dr. Krugman.
Q. Steve Thomas: What was interesting is that we found no history or pathology or evidence to
indicate that John Ramsey had any untoward relationship or discipline with his children. Is that true?
A. I've never thought that.
Q. I found Patsy Ramsey to be a complex person on many levels but there had been no reported
history of any abuse in the house; is that true?
A. What are you reading from, Mr. Wood?
Q. A CNN chat transcript, CNN April 14th, 2000, Author Steve Thomas tells his story.
A. Can you reread for me the Patsy Ramsey section?
Q. Be glad to. I found Patsy Ramsey to be a complex person on many levels but there had been no
reported history of any abuse in the house. Is that true?
A. Yeah, we had no reported incidents of any abuse in the house.


I spoke to Krugman and he seemed like a very sincere man who wanted justice for all children who are abused.  I asked about his involvement and would have no problem sharing what he told me.  He was consulted - shown minimal and clearly hand-picked information - - likely looking exactly for the response they got.  Or should I say they led the witness to make sure they got the "opinion" they sought.

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  Card from Santa
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-25-2017, 11:57 AM - Forum: Disproving Myths - Replies (1)

You decide - was there a card from Santa?  We have NEVER been told there was or what it said.  I personally think that may have been written by Patsy - she gave Santa something personal to say to each guest on the 23rd as he handed out gifts.  Anyway - what do you think?  This is from Steve Thomas' deposition

Q. Was there a note from Bill
7 McReynolds found torn up in JonBenet's trash
8 can in her room?
9 A. I have heard that.
10 Q. Did you ever check to see if that
11 were true?
12 A. I think I was told that it was
13 some sort of card.
14 Q. From Bill McReynolds?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Was it ever fingerprinted, do you
17 know?
18 A. Detective Trujillo would know that.
19 I don't.
20 Q. Did you ever try to find out?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you ever try to find out what
23 the card said?
24 A. I recall at one time. I don't
25 now.

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