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  legal lying in interrogations
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 10:21 AM - Forum: Disproving Myths - No Replies

My best information is that the book Mind Hunter was NOT in the Ramsey house - that Mike Kane was lying when he told John it was - and that was perfectly legal. It is a police tactic to get a response.  (Also a way to get misinformation to the public in a way it would be taken as "fact".  Remember, all kinds of things were being leaked back then.)

From the 1998 interview:

MIKE KANE: Okay. What about "Mind Hunter", John Douglas's book was there, was in the house, had you purchased that?

JOHN RAMSEY: No. It was there in '96? Interesting.

MIKE KANE: Why's that interesting?

JOHN RAMSEY: I never never heard of John Douglas or that book before.

That interview took place before John realized just what lengths the cops would go to to get information they might twist their way -- after all, now it was ON THE RECORD that the book was in the house -- misinformation, but still on the record.

By the 2000 interview, John was wiser and when told there were fibers on JonBenet's genitals from John's sweater, he was NOT so polite -- he called Kane a liar.

It is interesting to see how things changed over time.  In 1996, many of us thought police didn't lie.

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  The Hoffman/Miller FAX
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 10:15 AM - Forum: Handwriting - Replies (3)

Darnay Hoffman is the attorney who sued the Ramseys on behalf of Chris Wolf.  He said that his experts would testify that Patsy Ramsey and no one else wrote the ransom note.  The case was tossed out by Federal Judge Julie Carnes but the depositions from that lawsuit gavve us a LOT of good information on a number of subjects.

RIP, Darnay.  Now you know.


I shared this FAX a long time ago with the forum - and will again here. This FAX went from Darnay Hoffman to another attorney - Tom Miller. Tom Miller was willing to say that as a handwriting expert he had done what the FBI, CBI and US Secret service had been unable to do --- link Patsy to the note.  

While Miller was willing to say Patsy wrote the note, he was never taken seriously by anyone I know related to this investigation, and that included Darnay.

This FAX is a document I think most Ramsey addicts will find very interesting.  THIS is the kind of documents followers of the case rarely get to see but only one of many.

The text:

Dear Tom,
Could you please fax me a copy of your c.v.? My fax number is (212) 496-****. I need to begin
preparing your court affidavit and a recital of your qualifications as a handwriting expert is essential.

You might be interested to know that I spoke with handwriting expert Paul A. Osborn who is, as you
probably already know, the grandson of Albert S. and son of Albert D. Osborn. He refuses to touch the
Ramsey case with a ten foot pole. His reasons: he knows the handwriting experts who gave their reports
to the defense team and to CBI --- four in all. According to Osborn these experts are supposedly top in
their field (he won't give me their names) with impeccable ethical credentials. Their verdict: the
similarities between Patsy and the ransom note writers handwriting is at the very lowest end of the
spectrum, i.e., there is little or no basis for a match.

I don't have to tell you what is going to happen when I present your report and affidavit to a district
court judge. When Alex Hunter and Hal Haddon are finished with you, you will either look like Henry
Lee or Dennis Fung. Obviously this is going to be a "defining moment" for both of us. My former law
professor Barry Scheck just took a wicked hit in the Nanny murder trial, so it can happen to the best of
us.

Trust me (as they say in Hollywood) when I tell you that if you're doing this solely for the money, then
you're nuts. This is "a career move." You better be in this because you "like the action." Because you're
going to see plenty of it when this report hits the courts.

Best, Darnay Hoffman
.

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  from documentaries and interviews
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 10:05 AM - Forum: Prior sexual abuse - Replies (11)

Quotes from A&E documentary
.
Tracey to Dr. Beuf: JonBenet was brought to see you on 27 occasions. Does this number of visits strike
you as excessive?
Dr. Beuf: No, I don't think it's excessive under the circumstances. I went through her chart and
summarized the types of visits she had in the office in the few years prior to her death. She was here three times for annual well-child visits, one time for stomach ache, one time for vaginitis, one time for a bruised nose from a fall at a local market, and 21 times for colds, sinusitis, ear infections, bronchitis, pneumonia, hay fever, and possible asthma. A pretty wide spectrum of generally allergy and respiratory system associated problems which are not uncommon with kids her age.
Tracey: So that number 27, one would expect that other children would have similar numbers of
visits?
Dr. Beuf: Some more and in some cases less than others.
Tracey: In that kind of time frame?
Dr. Beuf: Yes.
Tracey: Did you see any signs of any kind of sexual or physical abuse of JonBenet Ramsey?
Dr. Beuf: I saw absolutely no signs of sexual abuse. I had no suspicion of it.
Man: Other media stories have suggested that vaginal inflamation released in the autopsy
report suggests previous sexual abuse. This conclusion is not supported by the balance of medical
opinion.
Dr. Thomas Henry:{Denver Medical Examiner} From what is noted in the autopsy report, there is no
evidence of injury to the anus, there is no evidence of injury to the skin around the vagina, the labia.
There is no indication of healed scars in any of those areas. There is no other indication from the autopsy report at all that there is any other previous injuries that have healed in that area.
Man: But the absence of physical evidence in itself is not conclusive. So is there any other
evidence for the media's claim?
Man: Lucinda Johnson is John Ramseys first wife.
Man to Lucinda: A blunt question, is John Ramsey a child abuser?
Lucinda: No he is not. He is affectionate, he is kind and very gentle.
Man: Any suggestions from other family, other friends, school friends, so on, that that may
be the case.
Lucinda: No. There have never been other suggestion from any other source.
Man: Peggy Ramsey, John's sister-in-law. Is John someone who would abuse children?
Peggy: No. No he is not and it hurts so much that people would even say it or think it. There is
no truth to that. If we thought there was, we certainly would have spoken up as a family. We
would have gotten together and said, look, you know, you need help but nothing like that ever, ever,
ever crossed our minds.
Man: John Ramsey's first son, John Andrew:
John Andrew: No, there was never any abuse in my family. Zero. None. There was never any
touching or anything weird that might be kind of seen as sexual abuse by some. Never.
Man: This is John Ramsey's oldest daughter, Melinda.
Melinda: I'm John Ramseys daughter. I grew up with him, he raised me and I saw him raise JonBenet
and I don't understand why they don't believe me --- That he is the most caring father in the world. He
has never, ever, ever abused us in any way. I just wish I could say something to convince them.
Man: These are family members but what they are saying is supported by Boulder social services.
After the murder they videotaped a long interview with JonBenét's 9 year old brother Burke. The police
watched from behind a two way mirror. Social Services later reported that there was no indication of
either physical or sexual abuse.
The police declined to take part in this program but even their inquiry supports the family.
Many months of investigation into possible sexual abuse, according to one law enforcement
official, had yielded zero - "Friggin' Zero!"

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  posters' views of exculpatory evidence
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 10:04 AM - Forum: Intruder evidence - Replies (1)

Exculpatory Evidence - as I see it

Parents had no motive and no history of violence or mental illness that would suggest they were
capable or predisposed to do such a thing.

Evidence of intruder at basement window - leaves and "popcorn" dragged into house, glass on floor, suitcase moved as possible "step"

Ransom note - too long and clear to have been written in a panic AFTER the crime, I think it was
written before. I can explain why an intruder might,(wasting time while he waited for the family to
be down for the night)- but why a parent? Who would plan to kill their child and leave a note with
a body? In my theory, the note was a red herring, a "joke", by a very sick person like Ted Bundy
and Danny Rollins.

Ransom note - the handwriting doesn't match either parent. On a scale of 1-5 with 5 being "no way", John is a 5 and Patsy a 4.5.

Stun gun was used - parents had no access to any stun gun, never had any interest in one.

Child taken to basement - if a parent wanted to abuse or punish a child, why go to the cluttered basement? Why not just use the bedroom?

Garotte - not a weapon used by parents

Cord - didn't match anything in the house, couldn't be linked to parents in any way.

Sexual Assault - no history of pedophilia in that house at all and when parents DO kill their
children, less than 1% sexually assault them

DNA found on her clothing, under her fingernails AND mixed with JonBenét's blood in her panties is unsourced to this day.... but has been used to clear suspects including the Whites, Helgoth, Olica, Wolf and her parents

Dark fibers on JonBenét's clothing and on her genitals doesn't match anything in the Ramsey house. Same with colored fibers on the tape.

Body was not left in "peaceful pose" as children usually are when killed by parents. She was left in a moldy room, on the floor, not "tucked in", the garotte remained n her neck, arms thrown over head.

Tape, part of staging, didn't match anything in the house - source roll never found, no one can link the tape to the parents.

Boot print and palm print in room with body don't match the Ramseys. Boots never found and no evidence the Ramseys ever bought a pair of Hi-Tek boots.

Ramseys cooperated with police - called them and gave them full control over the house, signed over 100 consent forms allowing the BPD to access private records, repeatedly allowed themselves to be interrogated - marathon type interrogations.

Character witnesses - No one can cite a time when the Ramseys were anything but loving parents.
Family, friends, the older children in particular - all defend the parents.(Exceptions being Judith
Thomas and Linda Hoffmann-Pugh who started out defending them then made THOUSANDS of
dollars by "switching sides" and selling information to the tabloids.)

Ramseys passed polygraphs given by some of the best men in the country - and the results have NOT been disputed by any authority -- they won't accept them but won't contest them either.

Judge Julie Carnes and DA Mary Keenan's public statements that say clearly that the evidence points toward an intruder, not a domestic situation.

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  Mayor Leslie Durgin - "Boulder is safe".
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 10:01 AM - Forum: Press Releases /Official statements - No Replies

'No need to fear,' mayor tells Boulder
Leader says residents shouldn't think killer is 'wandering streets'

By Kevin McCullen
Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer

----------

BOULDER -- Mayor Leslie Durgin appeared at a news conference Friday to defend police and dispel fears about public safety.

"I've been asked if there is widespread fear in Boulder, and the answer is 'no.' There is no widespread fear in Boulder,'' Durgin told the news conference, carried live by Cable News Network.

She said she has not asked police for a briefing on the case.

"People in Boulder have no need to fear there is someone wandering the streets of Boulder looking for someone to attack. Boulder is safe,'' she said. "Boulder is a safe community, and it will continue to be.''

Durgin, who has been mayor since 1989, said the media coverage of the Ramsey slaying is as intense as she's ever seen in Boulder, which has drifted in and out of the national limelight for years because of the city's assortment of brilliant or eclectic residents.

Producers of the crime show America's Most Wanted contacted Boulder police Friday to seek their assistance in covering the story. Major news organizations from throughout the country have sent representatives to the city of 94,000, and newspapers in Great Britain have called city officials and local reporters.

"If this was New York or a community that experiences frequent homicides, it might not be that unusual,'' she said. "It is unusual --thank God -- in this community.''

Saturday, January 04, 1997

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


She later went public and said she should never have made that statement, that she did it to help calm the fear of the public -- based on the police telling her it was a domestic issue.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From a Mills documentary

Man: The day after the funeral the Ramseys appeared on CNN. The introduction reflected the
growing suspicion.

CNN video: Body found stashed in the basement of her own home. The parents of little JonBenet
Ramsey are in Atlanta and on the advise of friends they have retained defense lawyers. Earlier today the
Ramseys broke their silence and shared their grief with CNN's Brian Cabell in this exclusive interview.

Cabell - Do you believe that someone outside your home...

Patsy: There is a killer on the loose.

John: Absolutely

Patsy: I don't know who it is, I don't know if it is a he or a she, but if I were a resident of Boulder,
I would tell my friends to keep, keep hold your babies close to you. There's someone out there.

Man: For the Ramseys, the broadcast was a disaster. It was taken as further evidence that they
were playacting - talking to television rather than the police. Boulder's mayor, Leslie Durgan rejected
Patsy's claim.

Mayor Leslie Durgan: People in Boulder had no need to fear that there is someone wandering the
streets of Boulder, as has been portrayed by some people, looking for young children to attack. Boulder is
safe, it's always been a safe community. It continues to be a safe community.

Patsy: Now, I don't know why she said that -- To this day I don't know why she said that but, boy,
do I think that's what touched it off and it seemed like after that all the dominos started falling.

John: Plus it was so bizarre because we knew there was a killer out there and how could she say
there wasn't? It made no sense.

Mayor: It was done in large part to allay the fears of the children in our community and to let
people know that the information that I had at time was that we did not have some crazed person
wandering the streets of University Hill.

Tracey: And who did you clear it with?

Mayor: The police chief.

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  Mary Keenan - 2003 - - agreeing with Federal Judge Julie Carnes
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 09:57 AM - Forum: Press Releases /Official statements - No Replies

"Keenan Statement 4/7/2003"


DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
TWENTIETH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
MARY I KEENAN. DISTRICT ATTORNEY
April 7, 2003

I have carefully reviewed the Order of United States District Court Judge Julie Carnes in the civil case of Wolf v. John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey. I agree with the Court's conclusion that "the weight of the evidence is more consistent with a theory that an intruder murdered JonBenet than it is with a theory that Mrs. Ramsey did so."

Although issued in the context of a civil case, the Court's ruling is a thoughtful and well reasoned decision based on the evidence that was presented by the parties in that case. It should be read in its entirety.

John and Patricia Ramsey have been the focus of an exhaustive investigation with regard to the murder of their daughter, JonBenet, for more than six years. People charged with a crime are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in court. Since Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey have not even been charged, much less convicted, they must be presumed innocent and must be treated accordingly.

For several months, my office has been investigating new and other unpursued leads, most of which involve the possibility that an intruder committed this crime. We are proceeding with the full cooperation of the Ramseys, Detective Lou Smit, and the Boulder Police Department. We are all focused on the apprehension and successful prosecution of the killer of JonBenet.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My comment - Remember, she knew more about the case than the Federal Judge as she was the DA and had access to ALL the files.  The Federal Judge did only see what was presented to her.  Only fair to note that.

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  Foreign Faction
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-28-2017, 09:53 AM - Forum: Foreign Faction - Replies (31)

This is a long thread on Topix where I commented on Kolar's book while I read it.  Use as a companion when reading his book - - or just read my thread and skip his book - - or copy and paste here to comment on what is written there.  Have fun.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet...F219E4CA1S

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  911 page
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-27-2017, 11:53 PM - Forum: 911 call - Replies (9)

http://jameson245.com/911_page.htm

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  Professor Donald Foster
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-27-2017, 11:52 PM - Forum: Linguistics - Ransom Note - Replies (2)

http://www.jameson245.com/foster_page.htm

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  Ransom Note
Posted by: jameson245 - 01-27-2017, 11:50 PM - Forum: Linguistics - Ransom Note - Replies (1)

http://www.jameson245.com/bestnote.htm

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