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responding to thetalko.com article - Printable Version

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responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

16 Things The Ramsey's Don't Want You To Know About JonBenet's Murder

In this article, we’ll take you to the fifteen eeriest things the Ramsey’s don’t want you to know about this age old homicide. The murder of six-year-old blonde beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey has been the fixation of macabre fascination since the case broke in 1996. You can’t write stuff like this, the day after Christmas in a mansion in Boulder, Colorado there lay little JonBenet Ramsey bludgeoned and strangled under a white sheet in her basement. The case was a media frenzy from the day it broke, however, nearly 21 years later the case remains cold with no signs of heating up. The police had several suspects over the years, including a creepy Santa Clause and a teacher named John Mark Carr who confessed he was there when JonBenet died. However salacious these claims may be, the police never found evidence that could link any suspects definitively to the little girl’s untimely death. However, John, Patsy and Burke Ramsey remained under a cloud of suspicion for the alleged involvement in their daughter and sister’s murder. In this article, we’ll take you to the fifteen eeriest things the Ramsey’s don’t want you to know about this age old homicide.


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I will forgive the author not taking the time to correctly print "JonBenét", but she should have been able to correctly spell Santa Claus and John Mark KARR.

I am going to respond to each point  - one at a time.  Eerie?  Not sure that is a proper description of the "things" - - but the Ramseys have never tried to hide any facts related to this murder.  They always hoped for the facts to be known in order to SOLVE this mystery.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

16 John Finds JonBenet's body



[Image: 38128DBB00000578-3779889-image-a-19_1473...crop&w=738]

The police department that responded to the kidnapping call, turned homicide was the local police department in Boulder, Colorado. The Boulder Police Department was insurmountably unprepared for JonBenet’s murder, used to handling one, maybe two homicides per year. This so thoroughly contaminated the eventual crime scene, as the police maintained literally zero control over the scene. The Sargent of the Boulder Police Department responded to the initial kidnapping 911 call, however, left with another detective for a meeting with the FBI before the body was found. This would be a fatal mistake on the part of the police.
One of the responding officers on the scene was beginning to notice that JonBenet’s father, John Ramsey, had become visibly antsy due to the circumstance. The officer then appoints John Ramsey to look through the Ramsey home in search of anything that might seem out of place, instructing him to start from top to bottom. However, curiously, he started in the basement where he inadvertently found JonBenet’s dead body in the basement. He then picks her body up and carries her upstairs and lays her in front of the officers, literally disturbing any and all potential evidence the crime scene may have contained.

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Not sure why they posted this particular photo - it is the train room, not where the broken window was found, not where the murder took place, not where JonBenét's body was found.

Again, spelling is terrible.  

Error - the Detective, Linda Arndt, did not ask only John to search the house - she directed several of the people in the home to look around.  She did NOT say to start at the top, nothing like that - the only room off limits was JonBenét's bedroom and it was logical to check the basement first since the parents had slept on the third floor, searched the second earlier and gone the length of the house to get to Burke, the first floor was full of people - the basement was the logical place to start.  
Yes, John found his daughter and carried her upstairs.  The body was on the floor and seen by the single officer remaining as well as the minister, the Whites, the Fernies and Patsy.
The moving of the body was a terrible error but while it may have disturbed some of the evidence, it did not disturb all of it and didn't destroy it.  Plenty was found and not all is yet public, believe it or not.  Science is making advances every day.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

15 The Ransom Demand Was the Same as John's Christmas Bonus

The ransom note that the Ramseys have always alleged was written and left by the intruder that ultimately killed JonBenet, has always raised red flags to investigators. Before we get into the nitty gritty details of the three-page note, let’s first look into one of the strangest elements of the ransom note: the demand left by the supposed kidnapper. The alleged kidnapper who penned the now infamous note demanded $118,000.
This amount is peculiar because if the Ramseys were specifically targeted, which they must have been because there is no evidence of other crimes with similar circumstances anywhere near Boulder, the amount is simply trivial. Had the kidnapper specifically targeted the Ramseys for their wealth, which is possible, they would have naturally researched the family and their assets and attempted to extort the maximum amount possible. $118,000 was simply far less than a kidnapper could have charged the Ramseys for the safe return of their daughter. Even more odd, the amount of the ransom was the exact amount that John Ramsey had received as a bonus that year. It is hard to imagine that anyone would know that amount, besides John and Patsy Ramsey.

##################No matter how you look at it, whether you are BORG (Betting on Ramsey guilt) or IDI (Intruder Did It), the note is a very important clue. And the figure of 118,000 is like a riddle waiting to be solved. Why did the author of the note pick that number?

The Ramseys were very rich, worth about 7 million. Does it really make sense that they would stage a kidnapping and ask for just $118,000? No, not really. Had the parents written the note, they would have demanded a more reasonable amount, one or two million.


Could an intruder have known that was the amount of a bonus? YES. It was on every pay stub John had received after getting the bonus early in 1996. The house was a cluttered one - papers left around. Anyone being nosey could have seen the amount. Either the night of the murder or earlier. With the amount of housekeepers and repairmen they had in and out of that house, it would not have been a guarded or well kept secret.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

14 Ramsey's Close Personal Friends Put on Gag Order

[Image: maxresdefault-1-14.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=738]

It is no secret that the Ramseys were less than enthusiastic about speaking to investigators, quite frankly this really isn’t that unbelievable on its own because the police proved their incompetence from the very beginning. However, the part that mystified police was when there were rumors that the Ramseys had also barred friends and family from speaking to police. This is unusual for the parents of a 6-year-old murder victim because it seems to suggest they are uninterested in contributing any information that might help with the investigation. This seems to suggest the gag order they put on their friends and family was due to the fact that they might unknowingly offer up information that would implicate them. It is one thing to not want to speak to police on your own because they have effectively botched the case from the beginning, and they wrongly suspect you. However, if they are completely free of any involvement, why wouldn’t they want as many contributions of information to be given to the police as possible?

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True enough in that after the Ramseys understood there was a danger they might be suspects and possibly railroaded by the incompetent BPD - they did NOT want to be called in for hours of intense interrogation.  But in the beginning they made themselves available 24/7 to the police wherever they were and answered all questions.  But that is not the point of this post, is it?
The lie here is that the Ramseys asked their friends and family not to speak to the POLICE.  The request for silence regarded only the press.  The Ramseys brought the family around for interviews and to give fingerprints, DNA samples, handwriting samples.  Friends were encouraged to participate as well so the focus of the investigation might get off the inner circle quickly.
This is in the book the Ramseys wrote and I have heard the same myself when I have spoken to the family and friends, and even investigators.  The family did NOT try to stop anyone from speaking to police, later preferring the DA's investigators, to be sure.  But no one was gagged.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

13 The Eerie 911 call

The 911 call made by Patsy Ramsey from start to finish seemed strange to investigators when they played it back. However, the end of the 911 call held a potential missing piece to the puzzle: what was said after Patsy thought she had hung up the phone. After she relays information to the 911 operator, she immediately hangs up. This is particularly unusual of a caller under this amount of distress because most people stay on the line until police get there, often not feeling safe until they arrive.
Expert audio engineer Ed Kaufman examined the strange, nearly inaudible end to the now infamous 911 call on The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey. He goes through several steps to dig out the audio, including isolation of only the vocals and background noise reduction. When this is done, you can hear who investigators believe to be John Ramsey say “we’re not speaking to you”. Then it appears that a female voice says “help me Jesus, what did you do?” and finally another smaller voice, believed to be the voice of Burke saying “what did you find”. If these findings are accurate, this seems to obviously indicate the Ramseys know more than they are telling police.


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No one found the call problematic at first.  Only after the body was found and police decided to give other residents of Boulder peace of mind (no mad killer on the loose) did the information leaked to media lean toward a domestic incident.  

It would be interesting to know just how many people do stay on the line.  I have placed a few 911 calls myself and hung up each time believing I was needed where the emergency was (remember, this was using land lines, wires connected to walls, hard to be in two places at once.)

Finally, I have a copy of the actual 911 call that has NOT been altered - there are no voices at the end.  The TV show noted in this article (they have a photo of the show, it is the CBS program that is the basis of the $750 MILLION lawsuit which I suspect will be settled next spring.)  misrepresented many things so I would ask new students to the case to listen to the actual 911 tape for themselves and try to hear the voices.  If you hold your pee for 12 hours and stand on one leg while squinting very hard, and if you are looking at a transcript of what you are trying to hear, you might just find you hear the garbage they claim.  But is such a conversation on the tape?  Do the research and look for good sources - - Patsy hung up the phone and the noise is from the reel to reel tape recorder that was in use at the time. No voice except possibly shadows from past recordings on the same tape.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

12 The Ramsey's Try to Throw Suspicion Off of Themselves


During the interview police conducted with both Patsy and John Ramsey, they literally do everything they can to divulge and throw suspicion off of themselves. It is obvious to anyone watching the interrogation tapes, as it must have been to the Ramseys that the police were highly suspicious of their involvement. This causes a strange reaction from the Ramseys, not only do they seem combative and uncooperative, unwilling to shed light on perplexing details. The Ramseys also seem to feel the need to throw suspicion off themselves, a strange priority when they are being interviewed about their daughter’s murder. They implicate nearly every single person they know, even their closest friends Fleet and Priscilla White. The Ramseys were at the White’s Christmas party on Christmas night, which is where they had arrived home from the night of the murder. The Whites were looked into and ultimately cleared because of their air tight alibi.


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"... they literally do everything they can to divulge and throw suspicion off of themselves."      WHAT???  

 It is obvious to anyone watching the interrogation tapes, as it must have been to the Ramseys that the police were highly suspicious of their involvement. This causes a strange reaction from the Ramseys, not only do they seem combative and uncooperative, unwilling to shed light on perplexing details. The Ramseys also seem to feel the need to throw suspicion off themselves, a strange priority when they are being interviewed about their daughter’s murder. 

The police were BORG and the Ramseys knew it.  Still , the BPD was in charge of the investigation and the Ramseys knew they had to cooperate with them - - so they did their best.  They refused to be railroaded into admitting a crime they did not commit and I don't see how that is strange at all.  I watched the interview tapes over and over again and was shocked at how few real questions they were asked on possible intruders.  Like the investigators asked if they knew a Gary Oliva - he was a bum who hung out in the area - but they didn't show John or Patsy any photos of the known pedophile.   THAT was unprofessional and biased, the error that may have cost the investigation a gold star.

They implicate nearly every single person they know, even their closest friends Fleet and Priscilla White. The Ramseys were at the White’s Christmas party on Christmas night, which is where they had arrived home from the night of the murder. The Whites were looked into and ultimately cleared because of their air tight alibi.

The Ramseys were asked detailed questions about the Whites - and at the same time the Whites were asked about the Ramseys.  Police suggested to each couple that the other couple may have been involved and willing to "give up" friends to get away with murder.
The Whites were never accused by the Ramseys and from my own personal knowledge, the Ramseys told me they never felt the Whites were capable of this crime - - they never believed their friends did this.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

11 Patsy Ramsey's Telling Slip Up?



By now it’s clear that the case of JonBenet Ramsey is so muddled and distorted that if the Ramseys had not actually committed the murder themselves, they might have aided in a cover up. Some say that JonBenet’s older brother Burke, who was nine at the time of the murder, may have accidentally killed her and her parents orchestrated a cover up. An interest piece of evidence that supports this claim is that when police arrived on scene, Patsy Ramsey was wearing the same clothes as she was wearing the night before at the Whites’ Christmas party.
Patsy had claimed that she woke up that morning and simply put on the same clothes because it was early. However, considering Patsy’s stature and wealth, how likely is it that she wouldn’t simply walk to her large wardrobe and pick out something clean. Even more strange, Patsy claimed this was before she discovered the ransom note, so she wouldn’t have been in any hurry to get dressed. Some investigators think this is an indication of Patsy’s role in the cover up, indicating that she had never taken the clothes off because she was up all night.

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What a gobbledegook of misinformation here.

I have considered both sides - - some parents have killed their kids - could the Ramseys be guilty?  I find not one piece of evidence they could or did do this.    But let's play "what if?"

If a family member killed JonBenét, if the parents wanted to cover it up, why not throw her down those spiral stairs and call 911 reporting a terrible accident.  Why the tape and cord (and where did it come from - matched nothing in the house.)  
Other "evidence against the parents" is covered elsewhere on the forum so I will try to stick to the points this article covers.

Patsy was, indeed, wearing the same clothing as she wore to the Whites' the night before.  Photos taken at the party prove just that.  It was the Christmas holiday outfit Patsy had decided to wear that holiday - hoped JonBenét would wear one that matched (sorta).  She was up early and getting the family off early to go to Michigan and it makes perfect sense to just put on the clothes from the night before.  

I got to know Patsy a bit and I found her to be down to earth, not all haughty despite their money.  Wearing clothes a second day was NOT hard to believe - in fact, I saw her wear the same jeans for a couple days myself.  Not dirty, why add to the laundry?  (She did the laundry, there was no full time housekeeper.)

But let's play reverse question - - if Patsy wore the clothes all night as she murdered her child in that dirty basement - - do you really think she would not have CHANGED out of those clothes into something else - nightgown or another set of clothes?  Or do you think she was so clever she could do that crime and NOT get that mold or dirt on her?


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

10 JonBenet Was Strangled With Patsy's Paintbrush


JonBenet had received severe blunt force trauma to the back of the head, but she had also been strangled. Oddly enough, the garrote used to strangle JonBenet was made from a paintbrush that belonged to Patsy Ramsey that was stored nearby. A garrote is a strangulation device, assembled of some type of chord and some type of stick that effectively strangles someone. The red fibers of Patsy Ramsey’s Christmas sweater from the night before and morning of the murder were also found on JonBenet’s body. However, this is not necessarily incriminating considering it could have easily been transferred innocently at the party or afterward. However, as mentioned previously, the intruder theory suggests the Ramseys were specifically targeted. Had they been specifically targeted why would the intruder, and supposed murderer, not bring their own weapon? How did they even know that there would be anything in the home that they could use to kill JonBenet?

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Well, let's talk about the injuries.  Stun gun, garrote and a blow to the head.  Stun gun and the rest of the cord was not found in the house and was probably brought in by the killer.  Did he intend to strangle her with the cord and decide on a handle only after the first tightening of the cord hurt his hand?  (Evidence of two times tightening the cord - two marks left on her neck.)  The blow to the head remains a mystery as well, nothing found matches the wound exactly - - another possible item carried in by the killer.   And the tape - - where is the rest of THAT?  And the DNA left behind - - - not Ramsey - - all point away from the family and to an intruder.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

9 The Ramseys May Have Invited the Killer into Their Home

Many have alleged that the Ramseys predisposed their daughter to negative public attention, which most contend is the reason behind the intruder theory. However, most believe this predisposition stems from Patsy involving JonBenet in beauty pageants. Patsy was a former West Virginia beauty queen herself, expecting JonBenet to follow in her footsteps, dressing her up in lavish costumes and makeup. Most thing Patsy involving JonBenet in beauty pageants was a deliberate attempt to sexualize her child, unknowingly attracting pedophiles. However, millions of little girls are involved in beauty pageants, and were not brutally murdered the way JonBenet was. Even though this was a fervent claim by the media, it doesn’t seem as plausible as another thing the Ramseys could’ve done to predispose their child.

Chillingly, just days before the brutal slaying of JonBenet Ramsey, the Ramsey family had participated in sort of a holiday Christmas walkthrough of their home in their neighborhood. The lavish mansions were on display for Christmas, and it’s estimated that hundreds of people walked through the Ramsey home for a tour. Could the Ramseys have unwittingly exposed their daughter and the layout of their home to a pedophile who would later return to murder JonBenet?


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Appreciate the fact that the author backed away from saying the Ramseys set her up to be killed by putting her in the pageants.  It is a common Southern practice (though I never appreciated them) and is as evil as putting a kid on display playing baseball or swimming at a public pool.  

The house being on display was in a different year - but the Ramseys later said in their books and interviews that they wondered if choices they made put her in danger.   They won't know the answer to that until this is solved and the killer tells them why he took JonBenét and not another child that night.


None of these answers - or questions - or comments - - are items the Ramseys would hide.  They always wanted the case solved and that does not mean shying away from discussions - - they just want the TRUTH out there, not this kind of misinformation.


RE: responding to thetalko.com article - jameson245 - 07-30-2018

8 The Other Murder Weapon Could've Also Come From the Ramsey Home

Most remember the brutal murder of JonBenet as being caused by the garrote used to strangle her. However, JonBenet had other injuries as well. The six-year-old beauty queen also had a sizeable blow to the back of her head. The blow had been delivered with such force it actually cracked her skull, and bruised her brain. The skull fracture had a distinct pattern that suggested she was hit with something cylindrical with a flat top. Independent investigators have long since concluded that the thing that most likely caused the blow to the back of the head was a large metal flashlight. Coincidentally, family and friends recall the Ramseys having a large black metal flashlight. Some investigators alleged that this was further evidence of the Ramseys involvement, because had they been specifically targeted by an intruder it is likely they would have brought their own weapons. It is also peculiar that she was essentially fatally injured twice, investigators are unsure which injury ultimately caused the death. Some say that JonBenet was accidentally hit in the back of the head with the flashlight, and her death was covered up to look like an intruder murder.

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They don't know what weapon was used to put a hole in the top of her skull, it could have been the flashlight - or something else. Flashlights can be found in almost every home so owning a flashlight doesn't prove anything.
Personally, I think he thought she was unconscious from the first time he tightened the cord. When she suddenly screamed he hit her HARD, unplanned. With whatever was close at hand. Was that a flashlight? Only SickPuppy can tell us.