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Our introduction to DNA-X
#1
From Mark Beckner's deposition in Wolf v Ramsey

18 Q Has anyone matched the DNA from the scene?
19 A No.
20 Q Can you give me a ballpark figure of how
21 many individuals have submitted DNA?
22 A Well, back up a minute. There is more
23 than one sample of DNA. So specifically what are you
24 referring to?
25 Q Well, as I understand it, there is DNA and

121
1 I don't want to get technical here, but I understand
2 there was DNA found, foreign DNA, found under the
3 fingernails on JonBent's left and right hands; am I
4 right?
5 A Okay. Yes.
6 Q As I understand it, there was foreign DNA
7 found either on -- I'll just say on her underwear?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Now, I'm not aware as I sit here of any
10 other DNA. Was there any other?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Where was it?
13 A Well --
14 MR. MILLER: Just a minute.
15 THE DEPONENT: Yeah. We're getting into
16 evidence here.
17 MR. MILLER: I don't think you should
18 answer that question.
19 Q (BY MR. WOOD) I have to be able to know.
20 You raised the issue yourself about the different
21 areas of DNA. So I assume it has some relevance to
22 the subject matter that I'm asking you about in terms
23 of the tests done with Chris Wolf.
24 A You can certainly ask me if Chris Wolf
25 matched any DNA at the scene. I can answer that.

122
1 Q But I'm asking you about -- but I asked
2 you whether anyone else's did and you indicated
3 initially no. I said Do you know whether DNA -- I
4 believe you told me DNA tests were done or performed
5 with respect to Chris Wolf?
6 Yes; to the best of my recollection, yes.
7 Do you know the results?
8 Yes.
9 What were the results?
10 "Answer: He did not match the DNA from
11 the scene.
12 "Question: Has anyone matched the DNA
13 from the scene?
14 "Answer: No.
15 "Question: Can you give me a ballpark
16 figure of how many individuals have submitted DNA"
17 and you didn't answer that.
18 You said "Well, back up a minute. There
19 is more than one sample of DNA. So specifically what
20 are you referring to" was the question you posed to
21 me.
22 So that has relevance of your own inquiry
23 and so I need to find out what other DNA you're
24 referring to.
25 A When you asked the question, I'm thinking

123
1 the unknown DNA.
2 Q Well, I mean --
3 A I answered the question in that context.
4 Q Known DNA -- I'm talking about DNA foreign
5 to JonBent.
6 A Okay.
7 Q That's what I'm asking you about and
8 whether any of that has been matched, DNA found on
9 her, foreign to her, whether that was matched to
10 Chris Wolf?
11 A DNA found on her?
12 Q Or on her clothing.
13 A And the question is did that match to
14 Chris Wolf? The answer is no.
15 Q Has it matched, been matched to anyone?
16 A The DNA on JonBent?
17 Q And/or on her clothing?
18 A No.
19 Q Obviously you're telling me there was DNA
20 that was not on JonBen t or on her clothing; is that
21 correct?
22 A Correct.
23 Q Where was that?
24 A We're getting into areas where I feel like
25 we can't go.



 

jameson[Image: team_icon.gif]
Charter Member
9423 posts

Apr-10-03, 05:03 PM (EST)
[Image: mesg_add_buddy.gif]  
11. "RE: Mark Beckner's deposition"
In response to message #10
 
  
124
1 Q Well, I'm trying to figure out what was
2 done with Chris Wolf, and then obviously I'm trying
3 to find out if it's been matched with anyone since
4 that's the larger picture of the case in its
5 entirety. But I don't know what I'm getting if I
6 don't know what I'm asking about. You raised the
7 question, you've indicated there was DNA that was
8 found somewhere other than on her body or on her
9 clothing.
10 I had initially asked you about the crime
11 scene, I thought. Pull that back up. I asked you
12 specifically, you did not match the DNA from the
13 scene? Answer --
14 "Question: Has anyone matched the DNA
15 from the scene?
16 "Answer: No."
17 And you seem to be telling me now that you
18 want to modify that answer, that there was DNA from
19 the scene foreign to JonBent. And I'm asking you
20 where?
21 A What I'm saying is I am getting into
22 evidence that goes beyond Chris Wolf.
23 Q Well, was Chris Wolf's -- was Chris Wolf's
24 DNA tested against this other DNA that you say was
25 found at the scene that you don't want to tell me

125
1 about?
2 A Well, that wouldn't be accurate. Compared
3 against would be the accurate question.
4 Q Well, was it compared against?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Why would it be compared against if it had
7 already been identified as known?
8 A Well, again --
9 MR. MILLER: I don't think he can answer
10 this question.
11 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Well, the DNA evidence from
12 Mr. Wolf was obtained in February or March of 1998,
13 right?
14 A To the best of my recollection, yes.
15 Q Why would you have tested it, and maybe
16 you didn't, why would you have tested it against
17 foreign DNA that you had already had a match on from
18 someone else?
19 MR. MILLER: He didn't say he already had
20 a match on. That's why --
21 MR. WOOD: I may have been reading too
22 much in because he made reference to known DNA. And
23 I thought he was -- I was assuming that maybe they
24 had gotten a match and you knew the source.
25 A We have JonBent's DNA; that's known DNA.

126
1 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Right. And then you have
2 foreign DNA?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And the question was has any of the
5 foreign DNA, foreign to JonBen t, you have indicated
6 to me has not been matched to Chris Wolf?
7 A Correct.
8 Q And I asked you had it been matched to
9 anyone and you initially said no; is that correct?
10 A The DNA on her body or clothing, the
11 answer is no; that's right.
12 Q What about the crime scene?
13 A That's what I can't answer.
14 Q But here is the dilemma. I want to know
15 if whatever this we'll call it DNAX, okay, was Chris
16 Wolf's DNA compared to DNAX?
17 MR. MILLER: He answered that yes.
18 A Yes.
19 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Okay.
20 A I can tell you it does not match DNAX.
21 Q Right. At the time that Chris Wolf's DNA
22 was compared to DNAX, had it been compared to any
23 other DNA and found to be a match?
24 A Compared with other -- no, it's not
25 been -- his DNA has not been matched to anything at

127
1 the crime scene.
Reply
#2
more

you took the DNA from
12 Chris Wolf, you obtained it in February or March of
13 1998.
14 A And we did not have DNAX at that time.
15 Q So DNAX came along subsequent in time?
16 A Yes.
Reply
#3
more -

2 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Has a source for DNAX been
3 identified. I don't want to know who it is, but has
4 a source for DNAX been identified?
5 THE DEPONENT: Do I answer that?
6 MR. MILLER: I don't think so. I don't
7 think you should answer that.
8 MR. WOOD: You're taking the privilege?
9 MR. MILLER: Yes.

This deposition was taken Nov 26, 2001
I have no indication at all that this DNA has ever been sourced.
Reply
#4
more

10 Q Well, I'm clearly speculating but I think,
11 with some degree of a reasonable basis, that John and
12 Patsy's DNA would have been sent to compare to DNAX.
13 So maybe the question ought to be just put to you,
14 were other individuals' DNA samples sent to the FBI
15 markers for comparison to DNAX, other than John or
16 Patsy Ramsey?
17 A Yes.
Reply
#5
120
18 120 Q Has anyone matched the DNA from the scene?

19 A No.

20 Q Can you give me a ballpark figure of how
21 many individuals have submitted DNA?

22 A Well, back up a minute. There is more
23 than one sample of DNA. So specifically what are you
24 referring to?

25 Q Well, as I understand it, there is DNA and
121
1 I don't want to get technical here, but I understand
2 there was DNA found, foreign DNA, found under the
3 fingernails on JonBenet's left and right hands; am I
4 right?

5 A Okay. Yes.

6 Q As I understand it, there was foreign DNA
7 found either on -- I'll just say on her underwear?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Now, I'm not aware as I sit here of any
10 other DNA. Was there any other?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Where was it?

13 A Well --

14 MR. MILLER: Just a minute.

15 THE DEPONENT: Yeah. We're getting into
16 evidence here.

17 MR. MILLER: I don't think you should
18 answer that question.

19 Q (BY MR. WOOD) I have to be able to know.
20 You raised the issue yourself about the different
21 areas of DNA. So I assume it has some relevance to
22 the subject matter that I'm asking you about in terms
23 of the tests done with Chris Wolf.

24 A You can certainly ask me if Chris Wolf
25 matched any DNA at the scene. I can answer that.

122
1 Q But I'm asking you about -- but I asked
2 you whether anyone else's did and you indicated
3 initially no. I said Do you know whether DNA -- I
4 believe you told me DNA tests were done or performed
5 with respect to Chris Wolf?
6 Yes; to the best of my recollection, yes.
7 Do you know the results?
8 Yes.
9 What were the results?
10 "Answer: He did not match the DNA from
11 the scene.
12 "Question: Has anyone matched the DNA
13 from the scene?
14 "Answer: No.
15 "Question: Can you give me a ballpark
16 figure of how many individuals have submitted DNA"
17 and you didn't answer that.
18 You said "Well, back up a minute. There
19 is more than one sample of DNA. So specifically what
20 are you referring to" was the question you posed to
21 me.
22 So that has relevance of your own inquiry
23 and so I need to find out what other DNA you're
24 referring to.

25 A When you asked the question, I'm thinking
123
1 the unknown DNA.

2 Q Well, I mean --

3 A I answered the question in that context.

4 Q Known DNA -- I'm talking about DNA foreign
5 to JonBent.

6 A Okay.

7 Q That's what I'm asking you about and
8 whether any of that has been matched, DNA found on
9 her, foreign to her, whether that was matched to
10 Chris Wolf?

11 A DNA found on her?

12 Q Or on her clothing.

13 A And the question is did that match to
14 Chris Wolf? The answer is no.

15 Q Has it matched, been matched to anyone?

16 A The DNA on JonBenet?

17 Q And/or on her clothing?

18 A No.

19 Q Obviously you're telling me there was DNA
20 that was not on JonBenet or on her clothing; is that
21 correct?

22 A Correct.

23 Q Where was that?

24 A We're getting into areas where I feel like
25 we can't go.


124
1 Q Well, I'm trying to figure out what was
2 done with Chris Wolf, and then obviously I'm trying
3 to find out if it's been matched with anyone since
4 that's the larger picture of the case in its
5 entirety. But I don't know what I'm getting if I
6 don't know what I'm asking about. You raised the
7 question, you've indicated there was DNA that was
8 found somewhere other than on her body or on her
9 clothing.
10 I had initially asked you about the crime
11 scene, I thought. Pull that back up. I asked you
12 specifically, you did not match the DNA from the
13 scene? Answer --
14 "Question: Has anyone matched the DNA
15 from the scene?
16 "Answer: No."
17 And you seem to be telling me now that you
18 want to modify that answer, that there was DNA from
19 the scene foreign to JonBenet. And I'm asking you
20 where?

21 A What I'm saying is I am getting into
22 evidence that goes beyond Chris Wolf.

23 Q Well, was Chris Wolf's -- was Chris Wolf's
24 DNA tested against this other DNA that you say was
25 found at the scene that you don't want to tell me
125
1 about?

2 A Well, that wouldn't be accurate. Compared
3 against would be the accurate question.

4 Q Well, was it compared against?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Why would it be compared against if it had
7 already been identified as known?

8 A Well, again –

9 MR. MILLER: I don't think he can answer
10 this question.

11 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Well, the DNA evidence from
12 Mr. Wolf was obtained in February or March of 1998,
13 right?

14 A To the best of my recollection, yes.

15 Q Why would you have tested it, and maybe
16 you didn't, why would you have tested it against
17 foreign DNA that you had already had a match on from
18 someone else?

19 MR. MILLER: He didn't say he already had
20 a match on. That's why –

21 MR. WOOD: I may have been reading too
22 much in because he made reference to known DNA. And
23 I thought he was -- I was assuming that maybe they
24 had gotten a match and you knew the source.

25 A We have JonBenet's DNA; that's known DNA.

126
1 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Right. And then you have
2 foreign DNA?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And the question was has any of the
5 foreign DNA, foreign to JonBen t, you have indicated
6 to me has not been matched to Chris Wolf?

7 A Correct.

8 Q And I asked you had it been matched to
9 anyone and you initially said no; is that correct?

10 A The DNA on her body or clothing, the
11 answer is no; that's right.

12 Q What about the crime scene?

13 A That's what I can't answer.

14 Q But here is the dilemma. I want to know
15 if whatever this we'll call it DNAX,okay, was Chris
16 Wolf's DNA compared to DNAX?

17 MR. MILLER: He answered that yes.

18 A Yes.

19 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Okay.

20 A I can tell you it does not match DNAX.


21 Q Right. At the time that Chris Wolf's DNA
22 was compared to DNAX, had it been compared to any
23 other DNA and found to be a match?

24 A Compared with other -- no, it's not
25 been -- his DNA has not been matched to anything at
127
1 the crime scene.

2 Q But the DNAX at the time that you compared
3 Chris Wolf's DNA to the DNAX, had you compared the
4 DNAX to other individual's DNA and found there to be
5 a match or been able to identify whose DNA it was?

6 A Well, you're time line is all way off
7 base.

8 Q Well, my time line is limited to the
9 moment –

10 A Yeah.

11 Q -- to the fact that you took the DNA from
12 Chris Wolf, you obtained it in February or March of
13 1998.

14 A And we did not have DNAX at that time.

15 Q So DNAX came along subsequent in time?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And when it came along, was Chris Wolf's
18 DNA which had been kept on file, right, you maintain
19 it?

20 A Um-hum.

21 Q Was it compared to DNAX?

22 A The lab would have to answer that.

23 Q Well, would you have expected it to be?

24 A Not necessarily.

25 Q Why?

128
1 A Well, if -- hypothetically?

2 MR. MILLER: No, not hypothetically.

3 Q (BY MR. WOOD) I would rather you –

4 A I don't know how to answer it without
5 giving away information.

6 MR. MILLER: Well, then don't answer it.
7 Then don't answer it.

8 Q (BY MR. WOOD) You know, part of the
9 process here is going to require you ultimately to
10 give away information.

11 MR. MILLER: He doesn't have to give away
12 information that is related to the ongoing
13 investigation and that's really the key here.

14 MR. WOOD: Well, unfortunately that's the
15 argument we will have.

16 MR. MILLER: That's the –

17 MR. WOOD: I'm defending clients on a
18 murder charge in a civil case.

19 MR. MILLER: Well, you're not really.
20 You've got a civil case –

21 MR. WOOD: Yes, I am.

22 MR. MILLER: You've got a civil case and—

23 MR. WOOD: Where the allegation is murder.

24 MR. MILLER: Well, you've got a -- you
25 could classify it that way. The legal claims are not
129
1 murder.

2 MR. WOOD: Let me just tell you that Judge
3 Julian Korns, a former United States attorney, as you
4 have been, has clearly characterized this as a
5 defense against a charge of murder. And I have the
6 transcript to show that to you.

7 MR. MILLER: Well –

8 MR. WOOD: And the point is, we don't need
9 to argue about it today. But I am being met with a
10 lawsuit that is in fact supported in part by Boulder
11 police detectives or former Boulder police detectives
12 as witnesses and information leaked and provided to
13 the public, the media from the Boulder Police
14 Department as part of the basis of Darnay Hoffman's
15 case against my client. It may be painful down the
16 road for information to come out but that's just the
17 way things may have to be.

18 Q (BY MR. WOOD) The point here is maybe
19 this will at least help us know if it's a total waste
20 of time. Was DNAX obtained before or after Chris
21 Wolf was cleared from under the umbrella of
22 suspicion?

23 A I would have to go back and look and see
24 what the time frames were.

25 Q Was the DNAX discovered prior to June of

130
1 1998 when the VIP presentations I have called it or
2 it's been referred to was made?

3 A No.

4 Q Do you know in relationship to the grand
5 jury whether it had been discovered prior to the
6 grand jury convening in September, I believe, of
7 1998?

8 A Prior to?

9 Q Yes.

10 A I don't believe so.

11 Q So does that help you relate to Chris Wolf
12 how it might time out?

13 A Yeah, it probably would have been
14 afterwards time-wise.

15 Q After he was cleared?

16 A You're using the word cleared. We've
17 never cleared Chris Wolf.


121
9 Q Now, I'm not aware as I sit here of any
10 other DNA. Was there any other?

11 A Yes.


123
19 Q Obviously you're telling me there was DNA
20 that was not on JonBenet or on her clothing; is that
21 correct?

22 A Correct.




126
14 Q But here is the dilemma. I want to know
15 if whatever this we'll call it DNAX,


Beckner admitted that DNAx was not found before the grand jury started in September 1998.


130
4 Q Do you know in relationship to the grand
5 jury whether it had been discovered prior to the
6 grand jury convening in September, I believe, of
7 1998?

8 A Prior to?

9 Q Yes.

10 A I don't believe so.
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