Maggie Roberts wrote
#1
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From Maggie Roberts - found on another forum but pretty good post and I want to save it and my response.


These are my own questions, my own opinions and things I’ve noticed while researching this case. Feel free to give it a read and let me know what you think. Sorry in advance for the length.
First off, calling your friends over to contaminate the crime scene. Big red flag. If IDI how would he know what staircase she would come down? Why use Patsy’s notepad and marker; why would there be a need to practice it and on top of that why change the way the letter was started just to address JR. An advantage of Patsy writing the note; she would be in charge of what it said giving the evidence of it being practiced first in addressing the Ramsey’s. Being the author it gave her control to exclude herself. The time between the 911 call and the first officer arriving was only a couple minutes. So how did John manage to do all the things he said he did after Patsy yelled for him. Another question I had is what did pasty really do? She stated several times she didn’t know whether she went upstairs for John to read it or if she screamed. She said she didn’t read the whole thing but was able to recite some things said in the note. If IDI, why would he stay so long and risk being caught? The fact that the Ramsey’s were persistent in saying Burke was in bed the whole time and that JB was asleep and put to bed as soon as they got home is not plausible. PR and JR claimed that they dropped presents off at two different houses on the way home, but BR stated that they went straight home which gives more time for something to happen. The Ramsey’s were unable to keep their story straight when it came to recollecting certain significant details sent alarms off in my head. You can clearly hear another small voice in the 911 recording. Also JR stated that he was working on a model with Burke and after they both went to bed. Where’s said model? and during BR interview he stated he stayed up to finish the model after Everyone went to bed. Moving in to the pineapple, a ghost didn’t make the tea or the bowl so BR or PR did. Patsy claimed that she would hear cabinets being opened in the night even though she would be on the 3RD floor when the kitchen was on the first floor. Unless they squeak loudly. That’s bs. Burke’s interviews are full of behavioral clues along with PR and JRs interview. Why did patsy lie about the clothes JB was dressed in?Why would burke say John came to wake him up if JR said he didn’t. Why would John fail to mention the things he “noticed on his search of the house” when FW noticed them. Why was JR acting so weirdly and where did he go between 10:40 and 12? Why was JB found murdered in her own home when it was evident that she had been kidnapped and how did JR find her within minutes after so many people searched the house? (He already knew where she was) Based on behavioral clues, red flags, and the fact that the Ramsey’s lawyered up and refused to corporate with BPD leads me to believe it was the family that murdered that little girl (intentional or not) and they staged it. Due to JRs wealth and social status I’m sure he could turn some heads.
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#2
M - First off, calling your friends over to contaminate the crime scene. Big red flag.

J - Earlier Daphne went missing and the Whites called the cops and the Ramseys - - she was hiding and safe but I didn't hear anyone suggest the Whites were doing anything wrong calling friends for… what, help, support?

M. If IDI how would he know what staircase she would come down?

J. Even if she went down the front staircase to make coffee, she would likely have gone up the back staircase to wake JBR up for the trip. So it was just a place to put the note where it would have been seen. But riddle me this - if the note had been left on the front stairs and we came to understand she went from her bathroom to the kitchen every morning using the spiral stairs.... would you say the note was left on the front steps to confuse investigators? I think that is how BORG would spin it.

M. Why use Patsy’s notepad and marker; why would there be a need to practice it and on top of that why change the way the letter was started just to address JR.

J. I think the killer was waiting in the house and had to stay still and why NOT write a fantasy note? Does it make any sense to YOU for a parent to write the note only to leave it with a body?

M.An advantage of Patsy writing the note; she would be in charge of what it said giving the evidence of it being practiced first in addressing the Ramsey’s. Being the author it gave her control to exclude herself.

J - what advantage? No one would leave three pages of handwriting if they weren't far enough from the family to believe no one would identify it. Patsy was almost cleared of writing the note -- other samples were closer.

M.The time between the 911 call and the first officer arriving was only a couple minutes. So how did John manage to do all the things he said he did after Patsy yelled for him.

J - in an emergency people are like speed freaks?

M. Another question I had is what did pasty really do? She stated several times she didn’t know whether she went upstairs for John to read it or if she screamed.

J - She said she went back up the stairs, looked in JBR's room then screamed for John. As for the details where she was standing when a certain thing was said - - - Hello, I couldn't retrace my steps from the last hour and I am not overwhelmed with grief at the moment.

M. She said she didn’t read the whole thing but was able to recite some things said in the note.

J - That morning she didn't read the whole thing - she read some, went to check on JBR, later when she called 911 she looked at the end of the note and told the operator how it was signed. Later that day they all read it over and over. And she had to write it over and over for the cops who wanted handwriting samples. Why wouldn't she know what was in it later?

M. If IDI, why would he stay so long and risk being caught?

J - He was one of those guys who took risks - - and we have found out a lot of bad guys LIKE that risk. Look at the AMY case that happened in the Fall of 1997 - - very similar intruder - waited in house.
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#3
M. The fact that the Ramsey’s were persistent in saying Burke was in bed the whole time and that JB was asleep and put to bed as soon as they got home is not plausible.

J - All three people in the house that day agree that is what happened - - and ev
en a police officer went in and HE thought Burke was asleep - - so that's 4. It is plausible and the truth of what happened. The Ramseys had no reason to lie about that.

M. PR and JR claimed that they dropped presents off at two different houses on the way home, but BR stated that they went straight home which gives more time for something to happen.

J - Burke never said they went straight home. The families told BPD that the Ramseys had made the stops. I fear you have been grossly misinformed on this case.

M. The Ramsey’s were unable to keep their story straight when it came to recollecting certain significant details sent alarms off in my head. You can clearly hear another small voice in the 911 recording.

J - not on the tape I got from the DA. The networks couldn't hear it either. I fear you listened to an "enhanced" take - - meaning something the BORG put together. There are several of those tapes around - only the unedited tape can be trusted.

M..Also JR stated that he was working on a model with Burke and after they both went to bed. Where’s said model?

J. - Police may have it in the evidence room. I don't know. But even Steve Thomas didn't question the existence of the model.

M. and during BR interview he stated he stayed up to finish the model after Everyone went to bed.

J - Not really. Not what he said in 1997 interview or the Atlanta one - - Dr. Phil's show 20 years later, butchered in editing - - it isn't what it appears to be.
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#4
M. Moving in to the pineapple, a ghost didn’t make the tea or the bowl so BR or PR did.

J - I can't see any guilt in Burke and Patsy's prints on glassware and bowls and silverware - they lived there, emptied the dishwasher and used the utensils. The tea - Burke didn't make tea and I believe the tea was made by someone on the 26th - tea steeped in a cup or mug and the bag dropped into a glass that had been left on the table. I see no evidence there as she didn't eat the fruit right before she died - - it was PAST the stomach.

M. Patsy claimed that she would hear cabinets being opened in the night even though she would be on the 3RD floor when the kitchen was on the first floor. Unless they squeak loudly. That’s bs.

J. - I didn't check sound like that but will say there were no doors between the bedroom on the third floor and the kitchen. I don't think anyone on the third floor would hear opening cabinet doors on the first floor during the day BUT I would believe in the dead of the night - - yeah, you can hear a lot better in the night.

M. Burke’s interviews are full of behavioral clues along with PR and JRs interview.

J - Not many have seen the full 6 hours of the Atlanta interviews or read the notes from the earlier one. I have. Burke was uncomfortable answering questions and was being "led" at times. NOTHING indicated any guilty knowledge, ANY knowledge of the crime. He wanted to be out on his skateboard, whatever. But they were pushing and... He was never overwhelmed and twisted as reported.

M. Why did patsy lie about the clothes JB was dressed in?


J - Why indeed! No need to lie about anything and the photos taken at the Whites' party and the autopsy told the story. Patsy didn't lie.
Read the interviews, not BORG books, please.
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#5
M. Why would burke say John came to wake him up if JR said he didn’t.


J - John said he went up to wake Burke and send him to the Whites' house.  I really feel bad you are so misinformed.


M. Why would John fail to mention the things he “noticed on his search of the house” when FW noticed them.

J - Two people watch the same movie and write down all they see - - the details will NOT match.    You really sound like you just can't see beyond the Ramsey Did It - I am sorry but like you said, your mind is set.

M.  Why was JR acting so weirdly and where did he go between 10:40 and 12? 


J. He wasn't acting weird according to Steve Thomas or Fleet White - - of course Thomas blamed Patsy.  Where did John go?  He was never missing, never left the house.  He was there.

M. Why was JB found murdered in her own home when it was evident that she had been kidnapped 


J - "evident she had been kidnapped???"   Why leave the body in the house with the ransom note?  Why not take the body out - - no one would see a parent put her in the car - but an intruder would risk being seen carrying her from the house.

M.  and how did JR find her within minutes after so many people searched the house? (He already knew where she was) 

J. - They had been on the third floor - woke up there, washed up there, they had been all over the second floor looking at her empty bed and checking on Burke.  They had been on the first floor most of the day before being asked to search - - - and you are upset he went to the basement?  Had he NOT, you would have said that indicated guilt because he was avoiding fining her body.  This is BORG garbage.  Sorry, but you are posting that you just disagree with all I have to say - - -this is just sad. 

M.  Based on behavioral clues, red flags, and the fact that the Ramsey’s lawyered up and refused to corporate with BPD leads me to believe it the family that murdered that little girl (intentional or not) and they staged it. Due to JRs wealth and social status I’m sure he could turn some heads.

J.  I would have trust the police before following this case and a few others,  Now?  I would hire a lawyer immediately and lock myself in a room with NETFLIX and room service.  With nothing to twist, maybe they'd HAVE to follow the evidence.  

I did notice that in all your thoughts, not a second went to explain the Intruder evidence - the stun gun, cord, tape, handwriting, boot print, palmprint, DNA - - - all unsourced.    But in a BORG dissertation on the case, explaining true evidence isn't important.  I really do know that.
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#6
Hi all,

My own response for the first portion:


M - First off, calling your friends over to contaminate the crime scene. Big red flag.

D – How do you know that this is the reason for calling friends?

M. If IDI how would he know what staircase she would come down?

D – What makes you think that they would have to know this?

M. Why use Patsy’s notepad and marker; why would there be a need to practice it and on top of that why change the way the letter was started just to address JR.

D – What idiot would use their own?  Why would ANYONE practice it, Patsy OR intruder?

M.An advantage of Patsy writing the note; she would be in charge of what it said giving the evidence of it being practiced first in addressing the Ramsey’s. Being the author it gave her control to exclude herself.

D – The advantage of any author writing any note is that they are in control of what it says.  That's what it means to be “the author.”  Authors can include/exclude themselves.  Again, that's what it means to be “the author.”

M.The time between the 911 call and the first officer arriving was only a couple minutes. So how did John manage to do all the things he said he did after Patsy yelled for him.

D – Can you show it's impossible?

M. Another question I had is what did pasty really do? She stated several times she didn’t know whether she went upstairs for John to read it or if she screamed.

D – In case you are unaware of it, many times it has been reported that people scream but don't remember it at all.  Many times a person reports hearing a scream then later conclude that it must have been he or she themself that screamed.  Have you never heard or read this before?

M. She said she didn’t read the whole thing but was able to recite some things said in the note.

D – That's normal for those of us who read, especially under stressful conditions.  Like kidnapping for example.

M. If IDI, why would he stay so long and risk being caught?

D – What length of time would you recommend?  Is your recommendation based on experience?
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#7
And for the second portion:

M. The fact that the Ramsey’s were persistent in saying Burke was in bed the whole time and that JB was asleep and put to bed as soon as they got home is not plausible.

D - You haven't disproved what they claimed. Nor would this be a smoking gun, in case you thought it would be. (By the way, your wording reduces to “The fact that the Ramseys were persistent ... is not plausible.” That's probably not what you meant.)

M. PR and JR claimed that they dropped presents off at two different houses on the way home, but BR stated that they went straight home which gives more time for something to happen.

D - So the earlier the Ramseys got home, the more likely they are guilty? Are all parents more likely to kill their children if they arrive home earlier rather than later? Or just the Ramseys and other evil people?

M. The Ramsey’s were unable to keep their story straight when it came to recollecting certain significant details sent alarms off in my head. You can clearly hear another small voice in the 911 recording.

D - No one can analyze what you hear in your own head, whether alarms or small voices. But examination of copies of the 911 call show that the NOISE at the end cannot possibly be conversation over a phone line. What you think you hear is irrelevant.

M..Also JR stated that he was working on a model with Burke and after they both went to bed. Where’s said model?

D - Assuming it CANNOT be located, what would this prove or disprove? Assuming it CAN be located, what would this prove or disprove?

M. and during BR interview he stated he stayed up to finish the model after Everyone went to bed.

D - Assuming he did state this (and Jams says he didn't), what would this prove or disprove?
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#8
Third portion:

M. Moving in to the pineapple, a ghost didn’t make the tea or the bowl so BR or PR did.

D – There are only two possibilities?  Not six billion?  Not 100,000?  Not even three?

M. Patsy claimed that she would hear cabinets being opened in the night even though she would be on the 3RD floor when the kitchen was on the first floor. Unless they squeak loudly. That’s bs.

D – Please do post your acoustic tests of the Ramsey home.  I'm interested in t60 for the kitchen.

M. Burke’s interviews are full of behavioral clues along with PR and JRs interview.

D – As you began to watch the interviews, you expected to see behavioral evidence that implicated the Ramseys.  Lo and Behold!  You saw what you expected to see.  As you listened to the 911 recording, you expected to hear a voice or voices.  Lo and Behold!  You heard what you expected to hear.

M. Why did patsy lie about the clothes JB was dressed in?

D – This is not an honest question; rather it's a declaration that Patsy lied.  Prove it.
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#9
Fourth portion:

M. Why would (B)urke say John came to wake him up if JR said he didn’t.

D – Jams answered this definitively, but it's the same as some other questions: It's not an honest question but a declaration intended to prove that John or Burke lied.

M. Why would John fail to mention the things he “noticed on his search of the house” when FW noticed them.

D – This is to be expected, as Jams pointed out.  It would be far more suspicious if they matched exactly.  Are you really unaware of this?

M. Why was JR acting so weirdly and where did he go between 10:40 and 12?

D – Weirdly compared to what?  Compared to his usual “Your child has been kidnapped” behavior?

M. Why was JB found murdered in her own home when it was evident that she had been kidnapped

D – Don't believe what Gregg McCrary has to say about this case.  For example, previously he had stated that people don't refer to themselves as a “foreign faction.”  The author of the ransom note did not do this, so McCrary misread the ransom note.  Now he is misusing statistical inference by implying that whatever has not been recorded by the FBI cannot possibly happen.

M. and how did JR find her within minutes after so many people searched the house? (He already knew where she was)

D – Another dishonest question that is not a question but a declaration without proof.

M. Based on behavioral clues, red flags, and the fact that the Ramsey’s lawyered up and refused to corporate with BPD leads me to believe it the family that murdered that little girl (intentional or not) and they staged it. Due to JRs wealth and social status I’m sure he could turn some heads.

D – You are too easily led by others who obviously don't know what they're talking about.
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