OTHER HOUSEKEEPERS

[jameson245]

According to some police files I have access to, Between September 19, 1995 and December 11, 1996 - FOURTEEN different maids cleaned the Boulder home of John and Patsy Ramsey.    The Merry Maids would send teams of maids to work at the house together.  They cleaned the house on 9/19/1995, 9/26, 10/3, 10/10, 10/17, 10/19, 10/24.  Linda Hoffmann was hired late in 1995 (she had been a Merry Maid and left that job to work for the Ramseys)  but John and Patsy continued to have the Merry Maids in from time to time.

[jameson245]

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998

Linda Wilcox Interview

PETER BOYLES: How would people know that you're legitimate in terms of what you are telling us?

LINDA WILCOX: I have been interviewed by the Boulder Police, they know who I am. My name also appears on the tour guide for the tour of homes put out by the Boulder Historical Society during the Christmas of '94, under honorable mention, my name is there. Otherwise, you don't.

PETER BOYLES: You got palm printed?

LINDA WILCOX: Yes. The Boulder Police have my palm print. I had a key to the house for over two years and they called anyone who ever had a key.

PETER BOYLES: Did you give hair and do all that stuff?

LINDA WILCOX: No. I was not asked for hair or handwriting, although I would have willingly given it.

PETER BOYLES: Who spoke to you from the Boulder PD?

LINDA WILCOX: Detective Jane Harmer

PETER BOYLES: You've talked to us on who you are in terms of legitimacy about what you're saying. And, again, we have to be cautious, we aren't going to use your name. When did you first meet John and Patsy Ramsey?

LINDA WILCOX: I actually met Patsy before I met John. I don't have it in my records exactly, it was somewhere around March of 93. I was hired by the housekeeper, her name was Suzanne, she was a friend of mine who (illegible) she couldn't keep up. The person they had, had left for some reason or another. One, she wouldn't pick up toys which was a big part of that job. So she asked me, as a friend, if I'd come in and help her out because I was doing housekeeping part time and I had a part time job at K-Mart. I also had a small business on the side. She asked me to come in and help her out. Patsy was out of town at the time and I didn't actually meet her until almost a month later. I met Nedra before I met Patsy. And then I met John, I don't remember the exact moment I met John, he came foraying through the kitchen at one point and we introduced ourselves to each other.

PETER BOYLES: Why did you leave your employ?

LINDA WILCOX: (pause) A lot of work...uh...I wasn't paid for a good part of it. My schedule...I could make more money working for two other people than I could just for them. It was 6 hours, bare minimum, I was usually paid $50, if that. I could earn more money working for two people, regular schedule, regular pay.

PETER BOYLES: How long did you work for John and Patsy Ramsey?

LINDA WILCOX: Approximately 2 1/2 years. I left September 4, 1995.

PETER BOYLES: You contacted me after the Boulder Police contacted you. You've spoken with them, now it's been 20 months. Why did you call me and why did you want to have this meeting?

LINDA WILCOX: One, I keep hearing a lot of little things, misconceptions, that I wanted to clear up. The other, I personally have a very hard time with the Ramseys going on national television, blatantly lying and not having anyone speak up to contradict what they are saying.

PETER BOYLES: An example?

LINDA WILCOX: An example, when John Ramsey says to the camera, I didn't know she wet the bed, or not very much. I happen to know myself, he walked upstairs, she had wet her bed, I came in on a Monday morning and he said, "could you change her bed? She's wet it again." The thing that strikes me as odd, I knew her between 2 1/2 and 4. During that time, she did wet the bed but it wasn't chronic. It was every now and then. Early on, I mean 2 1/2 year olds always do, I mean it seems like they always have accidents. But, it got progressively worse. I would think that a 6 year old would wet the bed less than a 4 year old or a 2 year old. It actually got worse, it was moderate, she didn't have rubber sheets at that point, a pull-up would hold it. But her and Burke both wet the bed. Burke was 7 years old and he also wet the bed. I didn't think it was odd at the time, because it sometimes runs in families and it's more common in boys. And, their parents were lazy.

PETER BOYLES: Is it true you have knowledge of her bedwetting, prior to her death?

LINDA WILCOX: Prior to her death? Well, she did it for the 2 1/2 years I was there.

PETER BOYLES: Do you have any knowledge of her bedwetting just prior to her death, perhaps the weekend before her death?

LINDA WILCOX: No.

PETER BOYLES: You told me in another conversation, I dont' want to put words in your mouth, that JonBenet took a bottle really late in life.

LINDA WILCOX: She was in Nursery School. She was about 3 1/2 or 4. Suzanne, the nanny, was trying to break her from the bottle. It was, she turned 4 that august and that summer she pretty much broken from it. But, she was 3 years old, she was going to nursery school and she... Suzanne used to threaten that she was going to tell her nursery school friends that she was still using a bottlle to get her to stop because she was way too old to be using one. Um, she wasn't a good sleeper. She didn't sleep well and John, in particular, would get frustrated with her trying to get her to bed and he would put her to bed with a bottle and a video.

PETER BOYLES: You told me a story about John Ramsey coming over and turning off the vacuum while you were cleaning the house. Tell the audience that story.

LINDA WILCOX: Okay, first and foremost, the major...Patsy's major job was to make sure nobody annoyed John. One of the things that really annoyed him was lots of noises, you know, (couldn't understand) noises, things like that. One day, I was there, it was during the summer, so Patsy and the kids were in Michigan, it was the summer of '95, probably June or July, I was in the master bedroom, upstairs, on the 3rd floor, vacuuming the floor, which was my job. I was finishing up. John Ramsey had come in during that time, probably through the garage, went up the stairs, turned off the vacuum, turned around and walked away.

PETER BOYLES: He didn't say anything to you?

LINDA WILCOX: Not a word.

PETER BOYLES: Just turned it off and walked away?

LINDA WILCOX: The look on his face said it all.

PETER BOYLES: What were you doing, other than your job?

LINDA WILCOX: Nothing, I was vacuuming the floor.

PETER BOYLES: And he came over, turned off the vac, didn't say anything to you and walked away.

LINDA WILCOX: Right. He didn't like the sound of the vacuum.

PETER BOYLES: Tell the audience the infamous chicken pox story.

LINDA WILCOX: Okay. It was the summer of '95. It was probably two or three weeks before they left for Michigan. JonBenet was 4, getting ready to turn 5 that August, and her and Burke both caught the chicken pox. I was there cleaning in the kitchen. Burke was upstairs itching like mad. He had them all over, he was in bed with the t.v. in his room, playing videos. JonBenet was in the t.v. room, sitting at a small table, in her nightgown, doing something quiet, like coloring. The child had a fever, she's sitting there coloring, Patsy is in the kitchen on the telephone with the doctor. I figured, oh, she's going to call the doctor to find out what to give the kids and the conversation went, "well JonBenet's got chicken pox and she's got these spots on her face and we need to have a photo shoot in about 3 days. Is there anything you can give her to get rid of the spots? This is the child she loved with the whole of her heart?

PETER BOYLES: What was the relationship, to the best of your knowledge, it's my understanding that the Ramseys would speak in front of anyone about anything because the help was seen as part of the furniture? First of all, is that fair? And second of all, what do you think their relationship was like?

LINDA WILCOX: That's a relatively fair assessment, some were closer than others like the nanny for instance was a little closer. But, as far as I was concerned, I was furniture. The relationship was amiable and polite for the most part. It was a business relationship. They didn't..they weren't affectionate, they didn't act like a married couple, if I had seen them anywhere else, I would have assumed they were business associates. That's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife. As far as I can tell from making the bed, the sheets weren't (sorry, couldn't tell what she said).

PETER BOYLES: You said to me in another conversation, when you clean people's homes you can tell what their sex lives are like, what their personal lives are like. This may be putting you on the spot a little bit, but you told me that you believed the Ramseys did not have sex.

LINDA WILCOX: To my knowledge, and from other people that worked there, I don't believe so. At least, not on a regular basis. Certainly not on weekends, because I was there on Mondays. Um, like I said, it wasn't an affectionate relationship. I have a client currently, I've never met. I know her favorite colore, I know her hobbies, I know her cat's name, I know her husband's name, I know they are rather affectionate, you know, they leave little notes to each other, little comments, little things with hearts on them all over the house. I can tell you, basically, what they're like and what kind of people they are and I've never met them.

PETER BOYLES: And yet when it comes to John and Patsy, or it came to John and Patsy...

LINDA WILCOX: It was not an affectionate relationship. Another thing that struck me as odd. When Patsy was at her worst, she was really ill, she was in the hospital, she had undergone surgery, there were a few time she (illegible) and she came very close to death. Nedra was out in the waiting area with the rosary while she was in surgery, or nedra was at her side. John Ramsey was not.

PETER BOYLES: When this tragic story got out and people started to talk and you watched the actions, as we all did, of John and Patsy Ramsey, what went through your mind? How soon after the tragedy, the little girl's body was found, did the Boulder Police contact you?

LINDA WILCOX: The Boulder Police contacted me, I believe it was late February. And she was killed in December.

PETER BOYLES: What was your reaction when you heard that little girl had been brutally murdered?

LINDA WILCOX: My reaction might have been a little bit different. I was out of state. I had attended my grandmother's funeral that very afternoon. I was staying at my mom's home out of state. My honey, from back here, called me, on the phone. He doesn't keep up with my personal business life and he thought I still worked for them. Because he called and said, 'When do you work for the Ramseys?' I said, 'The Ramseys?' and he said, 'Yeah, John and Patsy.' And I said, 'I haven't been there in a year and a half.' And he said, well someone has murdered JonBenet and it was just instant shock. Just at that moment, my mother had turned on the television, she has cable, and her local news came on and they showed the picture of the house. And I'm like, Oh my God, something is really bad and I said, 'Do they know who did it?' and he said, "well no" and was telling me a bit of what he knew. This was on the 27th. Because that's when he got ahold of me. I was travelling on the 26th and he (couldn't understand). My initial reaction was, a stranger didn't kill that child.

PETER BOYLES: Why did you think that?

LINDA WILCOX: Gut feeling more than anything. But even now, more than then, I would (something) on everything I have that a stranger did not kill JonBenet. The lay of the house doesn't...it would be very difficult. Possibly, there are people who are professional. But then they would have done a professional job. Lots of little things contribute to my belief. Someone who didn't know that house, really well, couldn't have done what they done (sic) without being noticed. It's not possible. It is physically impossible. You had to know little things. Like for example, you walk in the room and hit the switch, the light doesn't come on. See, cause when the room was redone, they put in a ceiling fan, one of the metal ones, without a light kit on it. The only light in her room was the lamp between the two beds. You have to physically walk over and turn it on. It isn't run by the switch. The switch was meant to run the overhead ceiling light which was removed to install the ceiling fan.

PETER BOYLES: So much talk about the so-called "secret room," the little room, the room that hardly anyone knew. Linda Hoffman-Pugh, who replaced you, once said that she didn't know the room was there. What about the room where the little girl's body was found?

LINDA WILCOX: It's a wine cellar, that's what it was built as. It has no windows, I mean, it was a wine cellar. The last time I was in that room, there was nothing in it, it was bare. It wasn't used for storage, it wasn't used for anything. It was very damp, anything you put in there got kinda moldy, nothing was in that room. It wasn't necessarily hidden but it wasn't in plain view. And the room leading to it was the boiler room. It was kind of open but it was very dark. No one was ever down there much except maybe Burke. Burke was there occasionally. He had his train set down there. He was the only one who played down there. Patsy hardly ever went down there. She'd go down to get whatever she needed, she didn't like to go down there. It freaked JonBenet out. It was cold, it was damp, it was cluttered, it was dark. Pretty much the household help were the only ones who went down there. In fact, I'm the one who discovered the safe. Patsy didn't know it was there. One day, it was Suzanne, myself, Nedra and Patsy

PETER BOYLES: Suzanne was the nanny?

LINDA WILCOX: Yes, and the kids were in one of the other rooms playing. There had been a refrigerator down there. We were cleaning it out and doing things and I was, the floor leading to that room is linoleum and I was cleaning it by hand and I was backing myself out of the room so I wouldn't track over what I had cleaned. And I was backing myself into the wine cellar, the vacuum was behind me as I backed into the wine cellar. When I saw the safe on the floor and I go, hey did you know that there was a safe in here? It was covered with chips and paint and it hadn't been touched in a long time and I actually cleaned it off. And Patsy goes, 'Nah, I didn't know, John probably knows. Maybe he should, you know, drill it out sometime." As far as I know it was never used, there was never anything in it. There was no sign that it had been touched in years when I found it.

PETER BOYLES: Things that you haven't said so far, stories you haven't told, tell me about them.

LINDA WILCOX: One thing I thought was really odd, when I first worked there. Their oldest daughter, Beth, had died before I started working there. I've had a lot of death in my family, lots of family members have died, most of them prematurely. So, in the back of my photo albums, I tend to have like a collage of whoever it was, like my father, for example.

Well, he had this frame with the different holes for the different sized pictures, like a collage frame. He had this collage frame with pictures of Beth in them. From when she was a little kid, when she was a cheerleader, like that, which in and of itself is not odd at all especially with someone who has died. Except that he kept it in his bathroom. It wasn't even hung up at first. It stayed between, (some talking here that I can't understand - except she says, no let me go on, this is significant). He had one of those big sunken tubs and a separate shower and it sat between the tub and the wall. And then when the house flooded, which I'll tell you about later, it was right before the tour, like a week before the tour, the house flooded over Thanksgiving break which was a problem with a window and a faucet - it ran the whole time and flooded the house. Fortunately, it skipped that picture. But, at that time, it went on the wall, a few feet up and over behind the door but it stayed in his bathroom. It just, that always struck me as being kind of weird. Who keeps a picture of their dead kid in the bathroom?

PETER BOYLES: More stories?

LINDA WILCOX: Yes, the flood. That was an interesting one. What had happened, Jay (the housepainter) I don't know his last name, but that particular bathroom was John's bathroom. They each had their own bathroom, John and Patsy. And, neither used the other. It was too weird. And, the way it was set up, like I said, it was a big Whirpool bathtub and it had a handheld shower attachment that hooked to the side of the tub. The handles were the long, skinny handles. Behind those long skinny handles was one of those leuvoured kind of window covers you close, like a shutter. The housepainter had been painting, it was over Thanksgiving break, it had been warm. He'd been painting and he left the window open. We got one of those big wind storms. The wind blew the shutter open just enough to hit the handle on the hot water faucet and it started running through that shower head. But it didn't reach the bathtub. It went off the side, and onto the floor. It ran for like three days, hot water.

I come in the Monday after Thanksgiving. I get upstairs and it was like a sauna. I heard water running and I turned it off and at the time, I wasn't sure how much damage had been done. I cleaned it up as best I could and then I started looking. It had gone all the way under the big armoir type things and into Patsy's sitting room. It had gone through the ceiling and into John Andrew's bathroom downstairs, all the way to the first floor guest bathroom. It did approximately $20,000 worth of damage.

I had just recently purchased a steam carpet cleaner, which I happened to have in my car. I figured I better get it cleaned up because they were due back in town but because of fog in Atlanta, they couldn't fly back that day. I went to call his office and I looked through the top drawer of his desk to see if I could find a business card for Access Graphics and I'm upstairs in his office, since there's a phone in there, looking for it. I couldn't get an outside line. I'd been there almost 2 years at this time and I didn't know you had to dial 1 (one) to get an outside line. I thought maybe one of the wires had gotten wet or something because I couldn't even get a dial tone. So I got in my car and I found a pay phone and called his secretary, who I think her name was Lori.

PETER BOYLES: Lori Wagner

LINDA WILCOX: Okay, I called his secretary and I got ahold of her and I explained the situation and I explained to her that I was having trouble with the phone. She said, well just go ahead and answer it today and I'll call you back. And she called me back and she told me to look around. I thought I could still hear water running, but it turns out it was the steam heat. Because the window was open, it had come on. And I couldn't close the window. It was really jammed because the water had made it swell. I couldn't close the window and this was 8 in the morning. Well, I spent the whole day there. Especially John Andrew's room. It was the worse, it was flooded. I was using the steam cleaner to extract the water.

At about 8 o'clock that night, I'd been there 12 hours, they got home. I go down the stairs and Patsy was like, well what are you still doing here? And I told her about the situation. So, they go upstairs with me. The first thing John did, every time he walked in the house, was take his shoes off. He never wore shoes in the house. Ever. And I remember we walked up to the master bedroom and I showed them the bathroom and what had happened. And I said, oh I can't close the window. Well John gets in the bathtub, he yanked open the shutter and he slammed the window down. He's standing there in the bathtub with his stocking feet. I'd gotten most of the water, but it would like creep up between the tiles, and he got his feet wet. He got really ticked. You could see it in his face, it was like his eyes changed color he was so mad. But he has extreme self-control and unless you're looking for it, you miss it. But I looked at him and I thought, this guy's ticked. Although he wasn't acting it and he didn't say it, he just very calmly said, 'man I'm going to fire Jay right now, he's gonna pay for this.

PETER BOYLES: How was it Jay's fault?

LINDA WILCOX: Well, cause he left the window open. Jay forgot and left the window open and when it blew in, it turned the water on. That's what turned the water on.

PETER BOYLES: Was Jay fired?

LINDA WILCOX: Actually, he wasn't and insurance covered the cost and I guess John forgot about it. I think he actually did leave, Jay had some kind of accident at a different house and he had left, see they don't think about people except little things annoy them. At one point, it was later, it was almost summer by this time, it took him forever to paint the house. He was kinda slow. But it was summer and it was hot and he had all the screens off. And Burke couldn't open his window to get any air because there was no screen. And Burke's out front which is a straight fall and Nedra didn't want him up there with the window open. And Nedra was all upset at this, she goes, "man the kid can't even open his window" when they were trying to get ahold of him. And, they had some people working inside, hanging wallpaper and painting and then they were going to take over the outside and Jay got mad. I'm not sure what all happened with that. Lawsuits were threatened back and forth, I'm not sure what happened after that point in time.

PETER BOYLES: What's the best or most damning story? Did you know them when they were in the pageants? Tell me about the little girl's bedroom.

LINDA WILCOX: About the pageants. I was actually there at the very, very...OH, the best story. Okay, this was right after I left. She was entering her, I saw the application sitting in the kitchen. The very last time I saw JonBenet, the very last time I saw her was...it was on a Monday and they were getting ready for a photo shoot. She went upstairs and got all of her little dresses and costumes, and she had taken her upstairs and I had wanted to talk to Patsy to tell her I wanted the summer off and to let the other person take the whole summer because I didn't want to be there that summer because I was beginning to phase them out at that point and, she took JonBenet upstairs and they did the hair and the makeup and they left. She left this little trail of clothes behind her because she just grabbed them and they were falling. So I was picking up these clothes and accessories and such and she took off and they were gone for hours. and I never saw her again.

PETER BOYLES: They had gone to a pageant?

LINDA WILCOX: No, they had gone to a photo shoot. Remember the pictures where she is in the bathing suit, she's with this little inflatable duck. That was that photo shoot. I saw her the day she was leaving for that shoot. That's the last time I saw her alive.

PETER BOYLES: Did you get the sense that pageants were no part of this, a little part of this, the significance?

LINDA WILCOX: Okay, pageants were very significant. It was a status thing. I heard about it right after they got back that summer, the summer of '95. Suzanne, who had already left their employ because JonBenet, they didn't need her when she started nursery school, or Pre-K in that case. But she was s friend of mine and she had called and asked if she could see the kids because she was still in touch with them. And she had gone to see them, and I was talking to Suzanne that next week and she said, Yeah, I went to see the kids and she was going to take JonBenet to McDonalds because JonBenet loved McDonalds. It was like her favorite thing in the whole world. And Suzanne told me, I just heard the saddest thing. She'd gone and gotten the kids and she said, hey, I'm going to take you guys to McDonalds. JonBenet looked at her stone cold and said, "Eating McDonalds makes you fat."

PETER BOYLES: Didn't you tell me once about what they called her bedroom, the pageant room?

LINDA WILCOX: Well, actually it was Melinda's bedroom. See, her bedroom, when I first got there, this was before the redecorating and JonBenet's room was next to Burkes. And they shared a bathroom. However, because she was um, and then the bedroom that became her bedroom, had belonged to Melinda, it was set up for Melinda and Beth. It had twin beds and it was called the "pink" room because it was mostly done in pink. JonBenet wouldn't sleep in her room because the pink room had a VCR - well a TV/VCR. Well, her dad especially, but sometimes Patsy, she didn't sleep well, would put her to bed with a bottle and a video so she was always sleeping in the other room. So, they named that her room. The small room next to Burke's became Melinda's room. But, of course, Melinda only visited, primarily, I mean, she was in nursing school so she wasn't there much. And from what I got from Suzanne later, became the pageant room. So that was originally her room but she wouldn't sleep in her room because it didn't have a t.v. in it.

PETER BOYLES: Why did they call it the pageant room?

LINDA WILCOX: I assume because that's where they kept all her costumes and her clothes, her crowns and her trophies. But I persosonally did not see it as such because I had already been gone. Suzanne told me (garbled) I mean this kid was 3 1/2, she was in Nursery school in the morning. She had music lessons, she had dance. The poor kid was so busy every afternoon she was only 3 years old.

PETER BOYLES: Jacque the dog, again, JonBenet's dog, but the dog was given to the people across the street. A lot of people have talked about where was the dog that night. The dog had been given to the neighbors because the neighbors quote, liked the dog and so the dog lived there. What can you tell us about the dog?

LINDA WILCOX: Well, first of all, Patsy didn't want a dog. And, she didn't want JonBenet to have a dog. This particular dog didn't get the potty training thing down very well, he tended to leave puddles. He was pretty much relegated to the wood floor at the bottom of the spiral staircase and out the side door off the patio. However, they had, John told Patsy to get JonBenet a dog. It was John's decision to get a dog and Patsy chose a Bichon. She got it from a pet store, and I came there one day, his name was Jacques, a little guy, cute little furball. Well, one day the dog went to the vet and came back. But the dog that went to the vet was smaller than the dog that left. I had said something to Patsy, the next week I walked in and I asked Patsy what happened to Jacques. She's like, "What?" And I said, this isn't Jacques. And she's like, SHHHH, don't tell anyone, no one else knows. Turns out the first dog had something wrong like some kind of liver disease or something and it was dying. It was a bad dog, so she called the pet store and made a switch before anyone knew.

One more thing...I think the first summer, the summer of '94, they took the dog with them to Michigan. See Patsy took care of the dog, John took no responsibility for it whatsoever. He tolerated it at best. And, if it got anything of his, heaven forbid. I don't know this, but I think they got rid of the dog because when they were in Michigan, they were busy with pageants. They were doing other things and there was no one to look after the dog. I think they gave it to the neighbors when they left for the summer because they didn't want to hassle with the dog. Life was good for them until it was inconvenient.

Like, JonBenet, for example. She got no affection at all when she was little except maybe from their nanny. Until she started to perform or produce, she was basically ignored. At one point, John was complaining because he had to get her dressed one morning because Suzanne had been out of town. He couldn't find any clothes that matched. The reason was, she was wearing cast-offs from Burke because she didn't have any clothes of her own.

PETER BOYLES: We look at so many photos and videos of this child wearing adult, woman sexy costumes, you know something about some Halloween costumes.

LINDA WILCOX: This particular Halloween costume, it was the Halloween, it would have been 1994 probably. Yeah, the Halloween of '94. And she had this, it was actually kind of cute, it was this little witches costume but it wasn't your standard, you know, black dress, pointy hat, it had orange criss-cross striping and it had a little cape. You know most little kids would say, you know, she said I'm gonna be a witch for halloween but I'm not going to be a bad witch. I'm going to be a good, sexy witch. And this is from the voice of a 4-year-old.

PETER BOYLES: She said, a good, sexy witch at 4?

LINDA WILCOX: It was a witch costume. Most kids would have just said, you know, I'm not a bad witch, I'm a good witch. But her mom is there and then Patsy walked in the room and said, "Yeah, she's gonna be a sexy witch."

PETER BOYLES: like a little dutch girl?

LINDA WILCOX: Yeah, sort of. It was absolutely adorable. It was a little elaborate but it was totally adorable. And she was showing it to me. It was her little easter dress, she was modeling it for me like little girls do. And, they mentioned they had paid like $90 for this dress. It was like this one-of-a-kind type thing. And they were talking about how Burke had mentioned, he had asked his mom that day, because she had worn it to Easter services and he had asked his mom, "Mom, am I fat?" And she's like, "No, why?" and he goes, "well, what's wrong with me, everybody's oohing and aahing over her?" You know, because of course, she's so perfect. But, then shortly after that, I think it was the next week and they had been shopping. They just happened by chance to be in Walmart. And if you've ever been in a fabric store or an area, they'll have like a particular fabric, and then they'll have like someone will have made a dress or a pair of pants or something. And it was hanging above the display. Someone had taken the time to make this dress and they'd hung it over the display of that fabric at Walmart. So, her dress, one just like the one JonBenet had been wearing, was hanging in Walmart. Nedra and Patsy were livid. The fact that a chain like Walmart would insult them by putting their daughter's dress on display.

PETER BOYLES: We'll talk about the police interview and we'll talk about the books by the bed. One of the stories we broke was about John Douglas' book Mindhunter being seen in the crime scene photos. You know a little bit about books by the Ramseys beds...

LINDA WILCOX: Well, they each had a pile of books in the corner by the bed. Even though they had nightstands. Originally the nightstands weren't there until they redid the upstairs. And even afterwards, they tended to just throw the books there. So, I kind of knew who read what. So, Patsy's side had things like, you know poems for women and not really what I would consider true trash-like Harlequin romances, but more like Mary Higgins Clark, woman novels. Some of them, I had even read. John's side of the bed was usually some kind of suspense-thriller. He tended to buy books by, what I call, by the numbers, I mean whatever's number 1 on the bestseller lists. Occasionally it would be something like the 7 habits of successful people, or financial things or even a (didn't hear) occasionally. But, generally it was some kind of suspense novel.

PETER BOYLES: Full circle. Two months after the little girls' death, the Boulder Police come to you. How did they get to you? What was that all about? What did you go through? Give the folks in the audience your impressions of the Boulder PD and sort of, how this all came to you.

LINDA WILCOX: Well, how it came to me. Initially, my friend Suzanne, who was the nanny, because she had hired me, the Ramseys at this point had no clue who I was or where to find me. I'd already been gone for a year and a half. Suzanne called me at home and said, the police are looking for you. I said, well I'm not hiding. And she said, well, is it okay if I give them your number? And I said fine and she said yeah, I talked to them and I said oh, did they take you there?she goes yeah, um, it turns out she was getting ready to go to work, cause she's working someplace else now, someplace professional, and she said she walked in and the officer said, "Is that Red" (the perfume she was wearing) and she was like at that point she was kind of turned off. She said, I can't believe they would think I could ever hurt that little girl. And, at one point they asked well how do you feel right now and she said, well I feel insulted and violated.

PETER BOYLES: It's interesting you tell that story because as you know, Michael Tracey and his documentary attempt to tell the story how the Ramseys were the target of the investigation 15 minutes after the police got into the house. And how long ago was this? Or how soon after her death was the nanny the target of the Boulder Police?

LINDA WILCOX: Um this was probably February sometime. But, when I talked to them, the questions were, the most memorable question was, why won't they talk to us.

PETER BOYLES: Meaning the Ramseys

LINDA WILCOX: Meaning the Ramseys. But, um

PETER BOYLES: What did you tell them when they asked you that?

LINDA WILCOX: I told them I really didn't know because they were very free about talking to everyone else about everything else. Most of the questions were concerning the Ramseys. It was rather cursory. They asked me about owning certain shoes and that type of thing. But most of it, as I recall, were questions dealing directly with the Ramseys. I was only asked about them. I wasn't even asked where I was that day.

PETER BOYLES: Can you remember any specific questions they asked you about the Ramseys?

LINDA WILCOX: They asked me about the bedwetting. They asked me if I knew that those children wet the bed and I said, yes. And they asked me if that seemed unusual and I said well, no. About the bedwetting and John saying he didn't know. If someone is there once a week cleaning and knew, how could a parent not know?

PETER BOYLES: You have said on a number of occasions that there were a lot of unhappy people, a lot of unhappy kids in that house. Talk about that as we come to the end of this.

LINDA WILCOX: Um, the thing that struck me weird about the house, it seemed really odd to me that she seemed like the only person who had any kind of joy. You know, to smile or show any exuberance was JonBenet. Nedra didn't particularly like Boulder. She always talked about their house in Atlanta and what Patsy had done to it and she talked about the south all the time and how Boulder was so backward. And Patsy was yeah, okay with it but things weren't exactly great and she had the cancer and the adversity. She was consumed with the cancer thing after that. Everything revolved around it. And then, Burke, his friends were his world. He kind of lived in his own world. Basically he had this whole group of friends and they had sleepovers. JonBenet never had sleepovers. She slept at her friend's houses occasionally but it was never reciprocated. I thought that was kind of odd. Daphne White

PETER BOYLES: The daughter of Fleet and Priscilla

LINDA WILCOX: Yeah, she had been to the house a few times and she was a cool little kid. But, she never slept over which I thought was odd. Because usually little girls take turns. JonBenet was the only happy person in that house. She was a ray of sunshine. She was totally adorable. She really was a pretty little thing.

PETER BOYLES: Tell us about the window that keeps coming up

LINDA WILCOX: I'm not certain of this one, I'm maybe 40% sure of this because I wasn't in that room all that much. The grate. First of all, if you were going to break into the house that isn't where you would do it, you'd do it in the side door to the garage. If you move that grate and go down into that window, first of all, you're going down into a very dark room. Underneath was bookshelves just full of stuff. And, just below that was this big basket with this huge Easter Bunny in it. I mean that room, it was cluttered, it was crowded, and it was dark. Not an ideal place to take anything in or out. But also, I had cleaned those windows on more than one occasion in the basement. To my memory, although this is going back, the window opened inward, towards you. It had a little latch at the top and it opened toward you. When they did the PTL tour of the house, it opened different. I'm not sure when it was changed. It could have been changed a long time before or a day before. I'm almost certain they changed the way that window opened.

PETER BOYLES: And finally, some insight into Nedra Paugh, when John Ramsey would go to work.

LINDA WILCOX: Actually, Nedra was a hoot. I really loved her. She was just a cool lady. I can remember a lot of times, I'd be there just as John was leaving. He'd just be leaving and I would walk in to the kitchen and set my caddy down. One of Nedra's favorite phrases was, "John Ramsey go earn that money!"

[jameson245]

1998-07-21: Peter Boyles Radio Show 630KHOW

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview

PETER BOYLES: You've talked to us on who you are in terms of legitimacy about what you're saying. And, again, we have to be cautious, we aren't going to use your name. When did you first meet John and Patsy Ramsey?

LINDA WILCOX: I actually met Patsy before I met John. I don't have it in my records exactly, it was somewhere around March of 93. I was hired by the housekeeper, her name was Suzanne, she was a friend of mine who (illegible) she couldn't keep up. The person they had, had left for some reason or another. One, she wouldn't pick up toys which was a big part of that job. So she asked me, as a friend, if I'd come in and help her out because I was doing housekeeping part time and I had a part time job at K-Mart. I also had a small business on the side. She asked me to come in and help her out. Patsy was out of town at the time and I didn't actually meet her until almost a month later. I met Nedra before I met Patsy. And then I met John, I don't remember the exact moment I met John, he came foraying through the kitchen at one point and we introduced ourselves to each other.


(SNIP)


PETER BOYLES: You told me in another conversation, I dont' want to put words in your mouth, that JonBenet took a bottle really late in life.

LINDA WILCOX: She was in Nursery School. She was about 3 1/2 or 4. Suzanne, the nanny, was trying to break her from the bottle. It was, she turned 4 that August and that summer she pretty much broken from it. But, she was 3 years old, she was going to nursery school and she... Suzanne used to threaten that she was going to tell her nursery school friends that she was still using a bottle to get her to stop because she was way too old to be using one. Um, she wasn't a good sleeper. She didn't sleep well and John, in particular, would get frustrated with her trying to get her to bed and he would put her to bed with a bottle and a video.


(SNIP)


PETER BOYLES: So much talk about the so-called "secret room," the little room, the room that hardly anyone knew. Linda Hoffman-Pugh, who replaced you, once said that she didn't know the room was there. What about the room where the little girl's body was found?

LINDA WILCOX: It's a wine cellar, that's what it was built as. It has no windows, I mean, it was a wine cellar. The last time I was in that room, there was nothing in it, it was bare. It wasn't used for storage, it wasn't used for anything. It was very damp, anything you put in there got kinda moldy, nothing was in that room. It wasn't necessarily hidden but it wasn't in plain view. And the room leading to it was the boiler room. It was kind of open but it was very dark. No one was ever down there much except maybe Burke. Burke was there occasionally. He had his train set down there. He was the only one who played down there. Patsy hardly ever went down there. She'd go down to get whatever she needed, she didn't like to go down there. It freaked JonBenet out. It was cold, it was damp, it was cluttered, it was dark. Pretty much the household help were the only ones who went down there. In fact, I'm the one who discovered the safe. Patsy didn't know it was there. One day, it was Suzanne, myself, Nedra and Patsy

PETER BOYLES: Suzanne was the nanny?

LINDA WILCOX: Yes, and the kids were in one of the other rooms playing. There had been a refrigerator down there. We were cleaning it out and doing things and I was, the floor leading to that room is linoleum and I was cleaning it by hand and I was backing myself out of the room so I wouldn't track over what I had cleaned. And I was backing myself into the wine cellar, the vacuum was behind me as I backed into the wine cellar. When I saw the safe on the floor and I go, hey did you know that there was a safe in here? It was covered with chips and paint and it hadn't been touched in a long time and I actually cleaned it off. And Patsy goes, 'Nah, I didn't know, John probably knows. Maybe he should, you know, drill it out sometime." As far as I know it was never used, there was never anything in it. There was no sign that it had been touched in years when I found it.


(SNIP)


PETER BOYLES: Did you get the sense that pageants were no part of this, a little part of this, the significance?

LINDA WILCOX: Okay, pageants were very significant. It was a status thing. I heard about it right after they got back that summer, the summer of '95. Suzanne, who had already left their employ because JonBenet, they didn't need her when she started nursery school, or Pre-K in that case. But she was a friend of mine and she had called and asked if she could see the kids because she was still in touch with them. And she had gone to see them, and I was talking to Suzanne that next week and she said, Yeah, I went to see the kids and she was going to take JonBenet to McDonalds because JonBenet loved McDonalds. It was like her favorite thing in the whole world. And Suzanne told me, I just heard the saddest thing. She'd gone and gotten the kids and she said, hey, I'm going to take you guys to McDonalds. JonBenet looked at her stone cold and said, "Eating McDonalds makes you fat."

PETER BOYLES: Didn't you tell me once about what they called her bedroom, the pageant room?

LINDA WILCOX: Well, actually it was Melinda's bedroom. See, her bedroom, when I first got there, this was before the redecorating and JonBenet's room was next to Burkes. And they shared a bathroom. However, because she was um, and then the bedroom that became her bedroom, had belonged to Melinda, it was set up for Melinda and Beth. It had twin beds and it was called the "pink" room because it was mostly done in pink. JonBenet wouldn't sleep in her room because the pink room had a VCR - well a TV/VCR. Well, her dad especially, but sometimes Patsy, she didn't sleep well, would put her to bed with a bottle and a video so she was always sleeping in the other room. So, they named that her room. The small room next to Burke's became Melinda's room. But, of course, Melinda only visited, primarily, I mean, she was in nursing school so she wasn't there much. And from what I got from Suzanne later, became the pageant room. So that was originally her room but she wouldn't sleep in her room because it didn't have a t.v. in it.

PETER BOYLES: Why did they call it the pageant room?

LINDA WILCOX: I assume because that's where they kept all her costumes and her clothes, her crowns and her trophies. But I personally did not see it as such because I had already been gone. Suzanne told me (garbled) I mean this kid was 3 1/2, she was in Nursery school in the morning. She had music lessons, she had dance. The poor kid was so busy every afternoon she was only 3 years old.


(SNIP)


PETER BOYLES: Full circle. Two months after the little girls' death, the Boulder Police come to you. How did they get to you? What was that all about? What did you go through? Give the folks in the audience your impressions of the Boulder PD and sort of, how this all came to you.

LINDA WILCOX: Well, how it came to me. Initially, my friend Suzanne, who was the nanny, because she had hired me, the Ramseys at this point had no clue who I was or where to find me. I'd already been gone for a year and a half. Suzanne called me at home and said, the police are looking for you. I said, well I'm not hiding. And she said, well, is it okay if I give them your number? And I said fine and she said yeah, I talked to them and I said oh, did they take you there? She goes yeah, um, it turns out she was getting ready to go to work, cause she's working someplace else now, someplace professional, and she said she walked in and the officer said, "Is that Red" (the perfume she was wearing) and she was like at that point she was kind of turned off. She said, I can't believe they would think I could ever hurt that little girl. And, at one point they asked well how do you feel right now and she said, well I feel insulted and violated.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1999


1999-02-18: "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder"
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999

PMPT Page 145

"On January 27, Detective Jane Harmer interviewed Suzanne Savage, one of JonBenet's baby-sitters, who had a key to the Ramseys' home. She told Harmer she had given a key to another helper, Linda Wilcox."

[jameson245]

PMPT Page 258

"I got to know Suzanne Savage from church. When she was totally overwhelmed by her workload at the Ramseys', I helped out. Ended up staying for almost three years. After I left the Ramseys' on Labor Day of 1995, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh started to work for them. The Ramseys weren't warm and affectionate people. They were very professional, very down to business. They communicated with each other like two people who are amicably divorced.

I was working for them when Patsy got sick with cancer and after she recovered. During that time, Nedra moved in and was caring for the children. Then Patsy had what she called her divine intervention and was cured of her cancer. After Patsy finished decorating the house, Burke became her favorite child. She spent all of her time at his school. He was her first project.

At that time JonBenet was too young to do anything Spectacular. She hardly got Patsy's attention. Suzanne Savage was in charge of her. JonBenet wasn't in school yet, and her world revolved around adults, whereas Burke's life revolved around his friends.

Then, when ]onBenet started school, she became Patsy's second project. The children really were like projects to her. I'm afraid that after JonBenet became Patsy's focus, she also became her obsession.

I think that to Patsy; nothing and no one had the right to be imperfect. Everything had to fit Patsy's image of what it should be. So JonBenet was under immense pressure to fit the image Patsy had of her new project.

When the police interviewed me, they asked if the kids wet the bed a lot. I said yes. Detective Harmer asked if I thought that was unusual, and I had to say, "Not really. Not at that age." Burke wore Pull-Ups until he was six, and JonBenet always wore them. But I also told the police it was curious to me that Burke stopped wetting the bed when he stopped being the focus of Patsy's attention. And that was when JonBenet became a chronic bed wetter. But you know if you have little kids around that age, they are bed wetters. When I left in September of 1995, they were both still wetting their beds.

Then the detectives asked me about the Bible on John's desk in the bedroom. The cover was embossed JOHN AND PATSY RAMSEY. Sometimes it was by the bed. It was always being read. I know because I never had to dust it. I told the police that I never saw it open, it always had a bookmark in it.

I don't remember if I told them about the large photograph John had of an aircraft carrier. On the bottom of the picture in fancy writing were the words Subic Bay Training Center. The script was faint because it blended in with the Water, so the words were hard to read. It used to hang behind his desk in the bedroom.

-Linda Wilcox"

[jameson245]

info on the witch costume bought for the 1994 school Halloween party

"I told Patsy of a place I knew of where they sold costume items" (snip) "and she went there and bought this witch outfit. It is my understanding that there were several comments made by a very bitter woman in Boulder about this costume when JonBenet wore it to her school Halloween party." [Pam Paugh Q&A http://www.webbsleuths.com 11/04/99]

[jameson245]

Reading the interview again - what a jerk that woman was.

PETER BOYLES: How long did you work for John and Patsy Ramsey?

LINDA WILCOX: Approximately 2 1/2 years. I left September 4, 1995.

PETER BOYLES: You contacted me after the Boulder Police contacted you. You've spoken with them, now it's been 20 months. Why did you call me and why did you want to have this meeting?

LINDA WILCOX: One, I keep hearing a lot of little things, misconceptions, that I wanted to clear up. The other, I personally have a very hard time with the Ramseys going on national television, blatantly lying and not having anyone speak up to contradict what they are saying.

PETER BOYLES: An example?

LINDA WILCOX: An example, when John Ramsey says to the camera, I didn't know she wet the bed, or not very much. I happen to know myself, he walked upstairs, she had wet her bed, I came in on a Monday morning and he said, "could you change her bed? She's wet it again." The thing that strikes me as odd, I knew her between 2 1/2 and 4. During that time, she did wet the bed but it wasn't chronic. It was every now and then. Early on, I mean 2 1/2 year olds always do, I mean it seems like they always have accidents. But, it got progressively worse. I would think that a 6 year old would wet the bed less than a 4 year old or a 2 year old. It actually got worse, it was moderate, she didn't have rubber sheets at that point, a pull-up would hold it. But her and Burke both wet the bed. Burke was 7 years old and he also wet the bed. I didn't think it was odd at the time, because it sometimes runs in families and it's more common in boys. And, their parents were lazy.

PETER BOYLES: Is it true you have knowledge of her bedwetting, prior to her death?

LINDA WILCOX: Prior to her death? Well, she did it for the 2 1/2 years I was there.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOOOO - she left just before JonBenet turned 5 - - and at that time JonBenet wet the bed occasionally. ONE TIME she recalls John told her that the bed was wet and needed to be changed - and that is somehow proof he was lying after the murder when he said he wasn't aware her bedwetting was a problem?

I really don't know if Patsy was sick at that time but think it likely - - and if so, John would be far more likely to be aware of such matters....

The thing is, I remember the way things were when this interview took place - the lynch mob was hot and the bees were buzzing. Anyone disagreeing with Peter Boyles' BORG rhetoric (that's a fancy way of saying Bullshit) was actually cut off, hung up on. But anyone saying ANYTHING even slightly negative about the Ramseys was welcomed on the show with open arms.

So Linda Wilcox made a call and got her 15 minutes of fame.

I was not impressed with her and will continue to comment as I read on.

[jameson245]

Clearly Boyles had spoken to Linda before she went on the air - he prompted her to tell this story and that one - handpicked bits.

It was clear John liked the house pretty quiet when he was working at home - and the housekeepers knew that - - he really didn't like the vacuum on when he was working. I won't pretend to know if he just didn't like the sound or if he felt it was a distraction when he was doing business on the phone. I myself don't care for the noise if I am on the phone or watching TV. But that really is neither here nor there. Point is, the housekeeper knew he didn't like the noise.

He was in the house and it bothered him - and he did something - - if you believe her - that was, simply put, RUDE. he turned off the machine and didn't say a word.

I know John and I honestly don't see him doing that. I can see him turning it off and asking her not to vacuum while he is home - - but here description of the event just doesn't ring true to me. (I know people who would do that, John isn't one.)

Not so sure how that makes him guilty of sexually assaulting and murdering his daughter or covering for the person who did. But these shows sure fed the flames.

[jameson245]

Next he asked her to tell the "infamous chicken pox story".

Patsy asked the doctor what they might do to get rid of the spots because in a few days they had a photo shoot scheduled in a few days. Personally, I don't have a problem with that - - I expect she was told time would take care of it and nothing was going to speed it up - - and that she would have to decide if it would be best to postpone the photo shoot. But the way Linda told the story, Patsy was doing something.... I don't know, negligent?

If she let the child be barefoot when she was sick - or if she bundled her up excessively that summer day - - Hell, whatever she did it could be twisted into something negative. Which is just what Peter Boyles and his friends did. I remember the time and they were shameless.

[jameson245]

Interesting to have a housekeeper sharing information on the sex lives of the employers and the condition of their sheets when she came in to make the bed on Monday morning.

Linda - maybe you like crusty sheets, some people don't and manage to avoid leaving a mess on the bed. There are ways.

[jameson245]

She must be confusing the Ramsey house for others where she worked. Said an intruder wouldn't have been able to navigate the house because not all the lights were connected to switches, some needed to be turned on manually. Seems she forgot that the Ramseys left lights on all over the place 24/7. Sconces in the spiral stairs, night lights on in halls and bathrooms, lamps on in the sun room.

She described the basement as damp and moldy - true - - but also said it was cold. Not so. The boiler was there and that basement was HOT. The window that was found broken was sometimes left open intentionally to cool off the basement.