02-20-2017, 12:42 AM
2000-05-31: Larry King Live "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?"
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, a first in the JonBenet Ramsey homicide case: Her parents, John and Patsy, square off against former Boulder police detective Steve Thomas. He believes that Patsy killed her daughter on Christmas night, 1996. It's exclusive, it's next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Since last with us, the Ramseys took a lie detector test, not under FBI order. And your lawyer said that you didn't want the FBI to do it. Why?
JOHN RAMSEY, FATHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: We didn't necessarily not want the FBI to do it. We wanted someone that was fair and independent.
KING: Do you think the FBI would have been partial, Patsy? I mean, do you think the FBI cares?
PATSY RAMSEY, MOTHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: I'm not saying that, I'm not accusing that at all, just that was not the definition of independent.
KING: Do you think they come with a degree of opinion?
J. RAMSEY: I don't know, but we eliminated that possibility by insisting they be independent. We went to the best polygrapher in the country, had the results quality control by the person who invented the polygraph system.
KING: And he was going to release the results no matter what, right?
P. RAMSEY: Absolutely.
KING: There was a given understanding that it would be made public, no matter what they found.
J. RAMSEY: That was the condition we agreed to.
KING: Steve, did that appeal to you?
STEVE THOMAS, FORMER BOULDER POLICE DETECTIVE: Well, it certainly didn't satisfy the Boulder Police Department. They are putting little stock in this polygraph. And quite frankly, it took Patsy, if I'm not mistaken -- and I don't think I am -- three tries to pass a polygraph: We had an inconclusive test, a second test that showed distortion, and finally, a third test with another examiner. She passed truthfully.
KING: Was that examiner respected?
THOMAS: Certainly nobody is testing or challenging the credentials of the examiner, but again, it's not the government authorities who want to conduct that polygraph.
(SNIP)
KING: Now back on the FBI thing for a moment, one would assume that the FBI, all they want to do is gather evidence. They don't care if you did it or didn't do it.
(SNIP)
J. RAMSEY: I don't know. I have friends in the FBI. They're good people. All I know is they're not independent. The Boulder police stated to us it would take them a week to get the polygrapher from the FBI ready to ask us questions. That shouldn't be necessary unless there's other motives in mind. The question is very simple: Did you kill your daughter? Did you write the ransom note? Do you know who killed your daughter? If we answered those truthfully...
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) more than that, do you? I know the Boulder police said they'd -- the polygrapher needed to know more. What did he need to know more to...
THOMAS: Well, in a polygraph there's no legal consequence to a polygraph at this point. And the chief of police...
KING: In Colorado.
THOMAS: Yes. The chief of police has even said he's not accepting the results of this polygraph, and it doesn't make or break the case one way or the other. But you've now based a polygraph. Will you not submit to an FBI polygrapher?
(SNIP)
J. RAMSEY: I don't know, but all I asked for was independent. Look, we were never asked to take a polygraph test. When we were asked...
KING: It's not -- Colorado doesn't allow it in a court, right?
J. RAMSEY: Wrong. Steve, let's address that right now. The cover of your book -- your book, your disgraceful book. "Why? His inside story answers a wide range of important questions. Why were the Ramseys handled with kid gloves and never asked by law enforcement to take lie detector tests?"
THOMAS: Because the D.A. carried you in their pockets during...
J. RAMSEY: But then don't tell me it was wrong. It's in your book that you were never asked.
(SNIP)
THOMAS: At the press conference they released a press packet in which they gave the verbatim transcript. And I think even Alex Hunter has said that anybody reading that transcript, a monkey could understand what was asked. Let's call that ancient history. I'm asking you today, not three years ago...
J. RAMSEY: Larry, if I'm reading this wrong, correct me.
THOMAS: And again, Larry, he's not letting me answer the question. But three years ago we're talking about. We're right here at the table tonight. Will you take an FBI-sponsored polygraph? And the answer is?
P. RAMSEY: Why will they not review the polygraphs that were taken? Why has he made a statement that says they're unacceptable when he has not even taken the time to look at them?
THOMAS: Well, when you're at the police department next week, ask them these questions.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, a first in the JonBenet Ramsey homicide case: Her parents, John and Patsy, square off against former Boulder police detective Steve Thomas. He believes that Patsy killed her daughter on Christmas night, 1996. It's exclusive, it's next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Since last with us, the Ramseys took a lie detector test, not under FBI order. And your lawyer said that you didn't want the FBI to do it. Why?
JOHN RAMSEY, FATHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: We didn't necessarily not want the FBI to do it. We wanted someone that was fair and independent.
KING: Do you think the FBI would have been partial, Patsy? I mean, do you think the FBI cares?
PATSY RAMSEY, MOTHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: I'm not saying that, I'm not accusing that at all, just that was not the definition of independent.
KING: Do you think they come with a degree of opinion?
J. RAMSEY: I don't know, but we eliminated that possibility by insisting they be independent. We went to the best polygrapher in the country, had the results quality control by the person who invented the polygraph system.
KING: And he was going to release the results no matter what, right?
P. RAMSEY: Absolutely.
KING: There was a given understanding that it would be made public, no matter what they found.
J. RAMSEY: That was the condition we agreed to.
KING: Steve, did that appeal to you?
STEVE THOMAS, FORMER BOULDER POLICE DETECTIVE: Well, it certainly didn't satisfy the Boulder Police Department. They are putting little stock in this polygraph. And quite frankly, it took Patsy, if I'm not mistaken -- and I don't think I am -- three tries to pass a polygraph: We had an inconclusive test, a second test that showed distortion, and finally, a third test with another examiner. She passed truthfully.
KING: Was that examiner respected?
THOMAS: Certainly nobody is testing or challenging the credentials of the examiner, but again, it's not the government authorities who want to conduct that polygraph.
(SNIP)
KING: Now back on the FBI thing for a moment, one would assume that the FBI, all they want to do is gather evidence. They don't care if you did it or didn't do it.
(SNIP)
J. RAMSEY: I don't know. I have friends in the FBI. They're good people. All I know is they're not independent. The Boulder police stated to us it would take them a week to get the polygrapher from the FBI ready to ask us questions. That shouldn't be necessary unless there's other motives in mind. The question is very simple: Did you kill your daughter? Did you write the ransom note? Do you know who killed your daughter? If we answered those truthfully...
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) more than that, do you? I know the Boulder police said they'd -- the polygrapher needed to know more. What did he need to know more to...
THOMAS: Well, in a polygraph there's no legal consequence to a polygraph at this point. And the chief of police...
KING: In Colorado.
THOMAS: Yes. The chief of police has even said he's not accepting the results of this polygraph, and it doesn't make or break the case one way or the other. But you've now based a polygraph. Will you not submit to an FBI polygrapher?
(SNIP)
J. RAMSEY: I don't know, but all I asked for was independent. Look, we were never asked to take a polygraph test. When we were asked...
KING: It's not -- Colorado doesn't allow it in a court, right?
J. RAMSEY: Wrong. Steve, let's address that right now. The cover of your book -- your book, your disgraceful book. "Why? His inside story answers a wide range of important questions. Why were the Ramseys handled with kid gloves and never asked by law enforcement to take lie detector tests?"
THOMAS: Because the D.A. carried you in their pockets during...
J. RAMSEY: But then don't tell me it was wrong. It's in your book that you were never asked.
(SNIP)
THOMAS: At the press conference they released a press packet in which they gave the verbatim transcript. And I think even Alex Hunter has said that anybody reading that transcript, a monkey could understand what was asked. Let's call that ancient history. I'm asking you today, not three years ago...
J. RAMSEY: Larry, if I'm reading this wrong, correct me.
THOMAS: And again, Larry, he's not letting me answer the question. But three years ago we're talking about. We're right here at the table tonight. Will you take an FBI-sponsored polygraph? And the answer is?
P. RAMSEY: Why will they not review the polygraphs that were taken? Why has he made a statement that says they're unacceptable when he has not even taken the time to look at them?
THOMAS: Well, when you're at the police department next week, ask them these questions.