Kim Ballard
Geraldo Rivera - Monday, May 12, 1997

4 . "May 12th transcript"
Posted by jams on Nov-07-00 at 00:16 AM (EST)

Partial transcript - - show covered other topics...

RIVERA: Oh, shush--with Kim Ballard, the purported mistress of John Ramsey. I--I found out about her awhile ago, didn't go with it because she wouldn't take a polygraph for me, but I trust Carol's reporting and Carol has talked to her. Before I talk to Carol, do you have these clips ready? OK, you have har--oh, she talked to "Hard Copy." OK. Roll "Hard Copy."

(Excerpt from "Hard Copy")

Ms. KIM BALLARD (Alleged Mistress of John Ramsey): He had said Southern belle, blonde, petite. He was someone to fill a void in a period of my life when I was alone, and I think I was doing the same for him, filling some sort of need.

Staying in nice hotels. We had--went to nice restaurants. He bought me nice clothes.

Unidentified Reporter: Cash, too?

Ms. BALLARD: Gave me cash, yes.

Reporter: Hundreds? Thousands?

Ms. BALLARD: Maybe $ 1,000.

(End of excerpt)

RIVERA: We could have called tonight's program A Tale of Two Ads. In the initial part of that interview, she was talking about how she met John Ramsey. Apparently, Carol, they first met through a personals advertisement?

Ms. McKINLEY: Yeah. According to Kim Ballard, they met through an advertisement she put in the USA Today in the personal ads. And, you know, you have to wonder after four and a half months since the child was killed, why does she come forward? I mean, that's the journalistic perspective of all this. What is up with this? It seems to always happen in these kinds of stories; someone always comes out and then they say they had an affair and knew someone before and...

RIVERA: Do you believe her?

Ms. McKINLEY: So--you know what? I--if I said one way or another, it would--it would give too much away and I--I--you know, I'll let you guys decide that for yourselves. But basically she just came out and said the reason she waited this long to come forward--and supposedly this affair she had with John Ramsey was back in November '94 to April '95, which is when Patsy Ramsey apparently had her ovarian cancer troubles.

RIVERA: Cancer--right. Right.

Ms. McKINLEY: But she says the reason she waited so long is because she would have kept silent, but the Globe actually used her name and she wanted to tell her story and she said the Globe had printed a bunch of lies about her, and so she wants to come forward and she says she hasn't taken any money.

RIVERA: This is--this is interesting. Part C--Tape C from Carol's interview.

Tell me when you have that keyed up because that, to me, is--OK. Let's roll--let me set it up. This is the only--as far as I can see from all the interviews, this is what brings it back to the--to the case, to the investigation. Roll Tape C.

(Excerpt from interview)

Ms. BALLARD: I met him in 1994, and if it hadn't of been, you know, for the Globe printing my name, I would've stayed a secret, like I always had been. But since it was printed, and also, their investigators--their own investigators, Ellis Armistead and Associates have been calling me daily, at least once a day.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe their own investigators are putting together a profile, the way the FBI will do, of a killer, because they just called and fir--at first they wanted to know everything about the relationship. And then it was just calls every day: Who are you talking to? Are you going to talk with anyone? Has the police contacted you? Are you going to talk with them?--just keeping up with me every day.

(End of excerpt)

RIVERA: Even mistresses tell the truth, Carol.

Ms. McKINLEY: Well, you know, this has nothing to do with the murder and that's what you have to remember. The only thing it has...

RIVERA: Well, how about the fact that her--that...

Ms. McKINLEY: do with is, if--if this, indeed, happened, the character of John Ramsey.

RIVERA: It has to do with character, but if...

Mr. diGENOVA: Excuse me.

RIVERA: ...his lawyers or investigators are calling...

Ms. McKINLEY: Yeah, and if they're calling trying to find out who she's--when she's going to talk.

Here's another interesting segment that came in the interview later.

RIVERA: All right. Joe--Joe, put down the cigar for a minute. Let's listen to Carol. Go ahead.

Mr. diGENOVA: I'm--I'm listening.

RIVERA: All right. Go ahead, Carol.

Ms. McKINLEY: Well, one of the things she said...

RIVERA: He wields that like a lethal weapon. OK.

Ms. McKINLEY: ...(unintelligible) she was--she was going to come out at the beginning of May and go on the show in Philadelphia. And what she said was the day before she was to take her flight, she got a call, and the person on the other line, which was a man, told her if she talked about John Ramsey, the same thing that happened to JonBenet would happen to her.


Ms. McKINLEY: And then this person hung up. So she's pretty nervous and--and she's scared now and whether this is true or not, it's all just one more strange...

RIVERA: It is.

Ms. McKINLEY: ...twist, as Bill Ritter said a little while ago in this--in this bizarre story.

RIVERA: OK. Before--before Joe and Larry tear it apart, let me merely suggest to you folks that--remembering the Simpson saga--remember how morbidly fascinated we were with all of these tangential, even extra legal characters that came to play a part in that--in that drama? So we'll comment on that. Stay tuned; be right back.


RIVERA: The big news in the JonBenet case, the fact that the Boulder DA sanctioned the family's ad in the local newspaper over the weekend; an adult male approaching your young children'--if you have any information, please call the Crime Stopper number. That's the big news. The kind of subtext here, an alleged mistress of John Bennett Ramsey's surfacing, talking about how he was a controlling personality.

I guess you asked her whether she thought they were involved in the case, did you not, Carol?

Ms. McKINLEY: Yeah, we asked her if--if, in her gut, if she thought they might be involved, and she said that she didn't know but that she believed that--that they could be. She had a gut feeling that they were.

RIVERA: She didn't talk about anything about him--Larry is rolling his eyes.

Ms. McKINLEY: She said she had a--she said she felt he had a temper, but there was one thing--there was kind of an antenna that went up because she said she felt he had a temper because when they were out to dinner she ordered decaf and he sighed.

POZNER: Ah, there it is.

Ms. McKINLEY: To me, that doesn't mean he has a temper. It just might mean that he wants her to stay up.

POZNER: ...(Unintelligible).

Ms. McKINLEY: I don't know what, but--you know, to commit to a relationship.

RIVERA: I side with they didn't have time to ...(unintelligible).

POZNER: Wait. Wait. Wait. Where's our FBI profiler to tell us...

RIVERA: OK. Joe...

POZNER: ...the, you know...

RIVERA: ...Joe first, then Larry. I've got to--I'm going to sandwich (unintelligible) due process.

Mr. diGENOVA: All right. Let me just--let me just say this. If one were looking at this story--and let's just assume for the sake of argument that this woman is telling the truth.

RIVERA: Mm-hmm.

Mr. diGENOVA: Let's assume that--that--that John Ramsey, while his wife is undergoing treatment for cancer...

RIVERA: Right.

Mr. diGENOVA: ...decides to go to a personal column to find someone to have a liaison with.

RIVERA: Right.

Mr. diGENOVA: It's weird. It's...

RIVERA: It is weird.

Mr. diGENOVA: ...almost as weird as having your child dress up like an adult when she's very, very small and pretending that that is insignificant.

RIVERA: So there, Larry Pozner.

POZNER: Oh, please.

RIVERA: So there.

POZNER: Prosecution should be based on sterner stuff than this.

RIVERA: It's not about the prosecution.

POZNER: Come on. Come on.

RIVERA: It's about the investigation.

POZNER: What investigation?

RIVERA: The character, the personality...

POZNER: What? The--tell me where...

RIVERA: ...the personal habits.

POZNER: ...this supposed mistress leads to. I--now we're going to hear somebody say that men who have affairs are more likely to be homicidal? Come on. Where...

RIVERA: How does this jive...

POZNER: Where's the evidence?

RIVERA: How does this jive with John Bennett Ramsey, supporting father and husband, who sat alongside Patsy and tearfully told the nation that they didn't do it and they were going to get the bastard who did, etc., etc.?

POZNER: If it's true, if he had the affair, I suspect he's...

RIVERA: When his wife was under treatment of cancer.

POZNER: ...I suspect he's not the first male to have an affair...

RIVERA: Oh, well...

POZNER: ...and I don't think it shows anything about whether he is a killer. And--and wait a second. Where'd this notion come from that he's the one dressing up JonBenet? It was his wife who participated...

RIVERA: Well...

POZNER: beauty pageants.

Mr. diGENOVA: Did he stop it?

POZNER: Oh, so he's going to say to his wife...

RIVERA: John was...

POZNER: ...I forbid you to put...

RIVERA: John was present at many of those. Mr. District Attorney.

Mr. diGENOVA: Did he stop it?

RIVERA: Mis--no, he did not. Mr. District Attorney.

Mr. RITTER: You know, again, this is a--a very bizarre sort of sidelight here. It is the sideshow. For a prosecutor, you have to maintain your focus on the details of the investigation that someday may be admissible in trial in a court of law, and you can get a little bit away from that, trying to decide different kinds of character issues. But this is of no help or hindrance to the prosecution. This is just something, that's purely, I think, entertaining.
May 15, 1997





On to Boulder now and JonBenet Ramsey, the latest. The authorities in Boulder today confirming what we have been reporting for the past few days, that the police did receive DNA test results in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case this past Tuesday. As their news release--here, depo cam--as the news release says, There will be no additional information provided on the content of the--of the test results by the Boulder police.' So they have it, but they're not going to tell us what it says, at least not yet.

This statement also confirms in the second paragraph what Kim Ballard told us on the program last night. She is, you know, the Arizona woman who claims to have had an affair with John Ramsey. The release reads, quote, "Boulder police Detectives Melissa Hickman and Jane Harmer were in Tucson, Arizona, this week to conduct a prearranged interview with Kim Ballard. This interview had been arranged through the Tucson Police Department.

However, after waiting four hours to conduct the interview, Ms. Ballard declined to be interviewed. This was the second attempt by Boulder police to interview Ms. Ballard. There will be no additional attempts to interview her."

According to Detective Commander John Eller, quote, At this point we would have to consider anything Ms. Ballard may say as suspect. We don't plan to set up other interviews with her.''

Let me zoom right out to--to Boulder. Seated there, Barrie Hartman, the editor of the Boulder Daily Camera--actually, in Denver is where the res--Barrie, comment about Ms. Ballard? What do you think?

Mr. BARRIE HARTMAN (Editor, Boulder Daily Camera): You know, I'm--I think I'm a lot like the people of Boulder: I don't know what to think. I don't know whether to believe her or not. I'm sure that what she has said--had to say has damaged John Ramsey considerably. But we just don't know what to believe.

RIVERA: This release then updates other elements in the case, stating the police are still requesting a fifth handwriting sample from Patsy Ramsey. But let's go back to those all-important test results from the DNA. NBC's Steve Handlesman has this report.


The DNA results were telephoned to investigators in Boulder from Cellmark Labs in Germantown, Maryland. After the Christmas murder of JonBenet, samples were taken from her body and from the basement room where she was found strangled in the Ramsey home. Sources say technicians made scrapings from beneath JonBenet's fingernails, swabbed her skin for traces of saliva and blood, and vacuum for hair and foreign skin cells. Certain findings could be key to solving her murder.

Professor MIMI WESSON (University of Colorado Law School): If you find anything, any piece of DNA that's identified to a person who had no business in that house at that time, that's highly significant.

HANDLESMAN: But not conclusive. DNA like that could be old, irrelevant. Police say there's no evidence of a break-in at the Ramsey home. They say their investigation's focused on the parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. Denver area DA Bob Grant, a member of the JonBenet murder task force, says it's unlikely the DNA results can strengthen a case against the parents.

Mr. BOB GRANT (Adams County District Attorney): So people that are innocently in that house are going to have their DNA everywhere. People who are innocently in contact with that child, including parents, siblings, are going to have their DNA all over that child.

HANDLESMAN: The Ramseys are still running ads endorsed by the Boulder prosecutor implying that a stranger killed their daughter. Boulder police said today they're no longer interested in an Arizona woman who claimed to be John Ramsey's lover.

Four and a half months after JonBenet's murder, the biggest crime in Boulder history remains unsolved. And police and prosecutors here are warning not to expect an arrest in this case anytime soon. I'm Steve Handlesman in Denver for RIVERA LIVE.

RIVERA: Steve, thank you very much. I want to go back to Bob Pence, our former head of the FBI in Denver. Bob, is the statement that they're no longer interested in--in the Ballard woman sound police work or is it sour grapes?

Mr. ROBERT PENCE (Security Consultant/Former FBI Agent): Oh, I think that they would be interested in the--in the woman, if any statement were made that was credible, that would indicate some taint on the character of a possible suspect. And I think they would be amenable to that. I--I think by making that statement, I doubt if that would hold if other evidence came or she came forward and was willing to be interviewed.

RIVERA: So you would believe that if, indeed, John Ramsey had an affair during this period when Patsy Ramsey was being treated for ovarian cancer, and Kim Ballard, being the petite woman that--and advertised herself as such--she told us when we had her on the phone earlier that the--the first word in bold print in the USA Today advertisement said Southern belle,' and then blonde, petite, college-educated, looking for professional male.'

Mr. PENCE: Mm-hmm.

RIVERA: That was the essence of the ad. And then she went on to account--recount some of what she--the intimate details of the relationship--alleged relationship. You believe that that would be probative and not just gossipy?

Mr. PENCE: Oh, I think that could be important. I don't know that it would go to the merits of the case, as far as evidentiary. But I think, if it was a credible statement and she comes forward and is able to substantiate it, that would certainly be something that the police could--could develop, as far as a character flaw which might--in--in fact, if she has that credible information, she might have other information that would be evidentiary. But even if she doesn't, it would certainly be something that would tell us a little something new and different about one of the possible suspects.

RIVERA: And--and, remember, one of the things she does recount is that members of the John Ramsey investigative legal team were in constant contact with her. It would certainly indicate, if true--and I've not heard them deny it--if true, that they thought her information somewhat significant or at least they feared some of what she had to say.

Mr. PENCE: I agree. I think if they reached out for her, there was some--either a knowing interest there that there was a relationship or that they really needed to nail it down and find out what it was all about.

RIVERA: I want to go to Barrie Hartman briefly, editor of the Boulder Daily Camera. You were meeting, Barrie, when you left me on Tuesday...


RIVERA: ...with Tom Koby, the police chief, and Alex Hunter, the--the district attorney. Without revealing the substance of your discussions, can you tell me whether or not they were--they seemed collegial? Did they seem amicable? Did--were they--was there--was there evidence of a rift?

Mr. HARTMAN: They--there is no rift between those two. They're very close. They're very supportive of each other. I--I--in all the--in the five months that this investigation has been going on, I've seen nothing but a close working relationship between them.

RIVERA: And what about all these reports of, you know, the--the--the--the DA, for instance, the adult male business and the Ramsey family ad approved by him; the cops knew nothing about it?

Mr. HARTMAN: I think that's--that's a blip, and I think in a case like this, you're going to have blips. And, thank goodness, there haven't been too many of them.

RIVERA: OK, guys. Thank you very much. I want to go, as soon as we take this commercial break, to the McVeigh trial. More dramatic testimony. Stay tuned, folks. Be right back.
Camera Staff Writer

Thursday, May 15, 1997

In other developments, Boulder police have attempted to investigate a relationship that a Tucson, Ariz., woman claims to have had with JonBenet Ramsey's father, sources confirmed Wednesday.

During the week of April 14, two female detectives traveled to Arizona to question Kim Ballard.

"She had said that John Ramsey had responded to her personal ad in USA Today and that the Ramseys' private investigators have called her, so some people thought it was worth checking out," a source close to the investigation said. "Once the police were down there, they called her and she hung up on them. And since she won't talk to police, I don't know how much credibility you can give her."

Ballard has discussed her alleged liaisons with John Ramsey on television and radio talk shows this week.

Ballard said she refused to provide an interview to Boulder police detectives who returned to Arizona on Wednesday.

"It sounds like she wants an attorney before she'll talk," a source said. "It's interesting, though, because Kim has said she had three dates with him in 1994 and 1995, when (John's wife) Patsy had cancer, and she said he told her what to wear and how to act. If what she's saying is true, she might be able to talk about his habits and demeanor and add some insight into the case."

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