chat from 1999
#1
[20:30] *** Jeralyn (~n_a@smartlawyer.com) has joined #WebbSleuths
<Aquarius2> sorry
[20:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Jeralyn
[20:30] <jameson> Hi Jeralyn. Smile
[20:30] <nelda> Hi!
[20:30] <dvus> hi jeralyn
[20:30] <Jeralyn> hi jameson.
[20:30] <Jeralyn> hi all.
[20:30] <Afton> hi jeralyn
<Aquarius2> Hello Jeralyn
[20:30] <jameson> small group - still early
[20:30] <Jeralyn> Steve Singular is here but we have to figure out how to get him a name and logged on
[20:31] <jameson> a couple others said they would be joining us.
[20:31] <Jeralyn> okay, can you walk Steve through signing on?
[20:31] <jameson> You have mirc downloaded on both computers?
[20:32] <Jeralyn> you bet!
[20:32] <jameson> just come in and we can easily change his name once he is in here
[20:32] <Jeralyn> okay, we will move to his computer, I'll be back here as soon as he is in.
[20:33] <dvus> she seems very nice
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[20:33] <jameson> He will come in on your name, then go to the top, click commands and change nickname,
[20:33] <jem1> jem1 needs to change name to Steve.
[20:33] *** Blue is on IRC
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[20:33] <jem1> ok
[20:34] <jameson> Well, if anyone has STEVE registered, he will get bumped
[20:34] <jem1> he is steve s.
[20:34] <Blue> Hi Jams, thanks for the password
[20:34] <jameson> so pick something no one will have - like steve_CO
[20:34] <jameson> welcome, Blue
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[20:34] <Blue> Lovbely informed me
[20:34] *** jem1 is now known as steve_co
[20:34] <Blue> Lovely Pigeon I mean
[20:34] <steve_co> he's in!
[20:35] <dvus> Smile
[20:35] <steve_co> hi.
[20:35] <jameson> Well, welcome Steve! Smile
[20:35] <nelda> Welcome!
[20:35] <Blue> Hello
<Aquarius2> Hello Steve
[20:35] <Afton> hi steve
[20:35] *** jameson sets mode: +o steve_co
[20:35] <dvus> hi steve!
[20:35] <Jeralyn> Anyone have any case news today?
[20:35] <jameson> The chat was set for 9 - want to just get used to this a bit?
[20:35] <nelda> We have really been looking forward to see you. We enjoyed the chat with Jeralyn so much.
[20:36] <Jeralyn> It was my first chat of any kind, and was very interesting!
[20:36] <jameson> case news? It seems there isn't any anymore
[20:36] <Jeralyn> So if you have questions for Steve, why don't you ask some?
[20:36] <jameson> I have heard that no one in CO thinks there will be an indictment now
[20:36] <Blue> They are trying to bore us to dath
[20:37] <jameson> This is the plan
[20:37] <Blue> Is this Steve Singular?
[20:37] <Jeralyn> Peter Boyles still thinks there will be an indictment!
[20:37] <jameson> Start at the top of the list of posters
[20:37] <jameson> everyone can ask a question and follow up
[20:37] <jameson> type pass if just lurking
[20:38] <Afton> Do you know of any actual cases where a child participating in pageants was victimized by a pornographer with the co-operation of the parents? If so, give some details please.
[20:38] <jameson> and we can start anytime Steve is ready
[20:38] <steve_co> i knowof cases where nothers lettheirdaughters be o
[20:39] <steve_co> photograpohednaked orner naked, (thisn is a new compueer and ny tyoing mwill improve)
[20:39] <steve_co> so the answer is yes,
[20:39] <Afton> this is for LovelyPigeon
[20:39] <Afton> Do you know of any case where a murdered, kidnapped, raped or molested child was a pageant participant? If so, give some details please
[20:40] <Jeralyn> I don't see Lovely Pigeon here, is s/he in law enforcment?
[20:40] <jameson> No - she is not here - but sent in question -
[20:40] <Afton> he he no she is our cyber buddy and asked me to post a question for her
[20:40] <Jeralyn> we got it, Steve will answer.
[20:41] <steve_co> i sas told by people in thepageants world that three out of ten girls who win are nmolested,.
[20:42] <steve_co> so there is a patternof criminak behavior here
[20:42] <Afton> by who
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[20:42] <Snow_Wolf> hi, everyone(:
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[20:42] <BayBB> Hi All
[20:42] <Afton> blue you are next
[20:43] <Afton> hi guys
[20:43] <Blue> I'd like to start by having you define the different kinds of child pornography... soft core, hard core etc. and talk about distribution methods amongst pedophiles a bit.
[20:43] <steve_co> by people attending pagents by judges in some cases
[20:43] <steve_co> by family members and others'
[20:44] <steve_co> there are 23,000 websites devoted exclusively to child porn that is very hard core
[20:44] <Blue> This is a figure from who?
[20:44] <steve_co> the world of advertising now holds what some might regard as soft core
[20:44] <steve_co> figure is from the United Nations
[20:45] <steve_co> the UN is starting to police it internationally
[20:45] <Blue> Havbe you found any hard core websites?
[20:45] <steve_co> yes. alt.binsary,etc
[20:45] <Blue> That is newsgroups
[20:45] <steve_co> yes
[20:45] <Blue> JonBent has not appeared in porn anywhere?
[20:46] <Blue> JonBenet
[20:46] <steve_co> it shows grphifc pix of five, six nd seven year olod being tied upn and sexuakky abused
[20:46] <Blue> Not JonBenet...perhaps Heather?
[20:47] <steve_co> there have been several reports of illciti photos of her but none has surfaced. One report caem from oneof herphtogs
[20:47] <Blue> herphtogs?
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[20:47] <Blue> Bobo is next
[20:47] <steve_co> Fleet's daugheris named daphne. I don't knowanything about heather.
[20:48] <jameson> no points off for spelling - be kind
[20:48] <steve_co> to go bak to softe\
[20:48] <jameson> her photographers
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[20:48] <Blue> I don't know who is herphtogs, sorry explain
[20:48] <jameson> her photographers
[20:48] <Blue> ok thanks bobo?
[20:48] <steve_co> her photgraphers
[20:48] <dvus> did I misunderstand you last night on Hardball? I understood you to say : that you believe the parents sent JBR out the night of the 25th for a photo shoot (porn)
[20:49] <steve_co> one of her photographes said thre were illigeitmate pix ofher incyberspace beforfe shedied.
[20:50] <steve_co> i am suggestingthat oneofherparents inadvertantly exposed her to somethingthatwas supposed to be innocent and unharmful. Butbecauseporn haspenetrated themainstreamit turned dangeroud.\
[20:50] <Jeralyn> But are you saying that they allowed her to be taken from the home on Xmas eve? Or that someone unbeknownst to them came and took her?
[20:50] <Jeralyn> xmas night, sorry
[20:50] <steve_co> I am saing
[20:51] <steve_co> Iamsayingthat a parentparticipated in getting heroutof andbackintothe house.
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[20:51] <Jeralyn> On Xmas night, knowing they were leaving early am for Michigan? I have a hard time with that one.
[20:52] <dvus> okay, then why would they cover for this? In your opinion? I don't understand why any parent would cover for this if their child was murdered
[20:52] <jameson> Steve - you said that night that there was fiber evidence in two places. I know about the blue on her genitals - what else were you talking about?
[20:52] <steve_co> It is possible that an online videobn
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[20:52] <steve_co> was beingshotthatnight, because it was a "speciakl occasion.
[20:53] <steve_co> Somethingofherupper thigh
[20:53] <Blue> wonderland?
[20:53] <steve_co> there is also fiber evidence onthegarotten. It is currentlyt being gtested by the CBI andthey are tryingtomatch it to someoneoutside the family.
[20:54] <Jeralyn> would that be hair that doesn't match jonbenet?
[20:54] <steve_co> No. this is fiber evidence left behindon the garotte. Oneofthe people they are testingwas involved in porn.
[20:55] <jameson> Wouldn't that person have gotten rid of the evidence by now?
[20:55] <steve_co> the person left behind theevidence onthemurder weapon.
[20:56] <Jeralyn> Steve, where do you think the ransom note was written?
[20:56] <steve_co> inside thehouse.
[20:56] <nelda> Do pageants usually have surveillance cameras that might show up someone stalking a contestant?
[20:58] <steve_co> not toy knowledge, They see the pageants as very innocent things forthemostpart. just as Patsy always sayt. She is choosingnottolook at certain things. Shed was exposedd through a phiotographer to semi-nude pagenat pix and kept her daugher in hat situation.
[20:58] <Jeralyn> good question, Nelda!
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<Aquarius2> Steve, are you suggesting a parent helped get her out of the house and then she was returned dead with the garotte still in place and this same parent let somebody bring her back like that?
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Reply
#2
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[21:00] <steve_co> yes
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<Aquarius2> And then this parent just carried her to the basement and left her there?
[21:00] <steve_co> the garotte has evidence on it that it mayh wellhave beenused before in similar circumsgtances.
[21:01] <CarolinaG> hey everyone
[21:01] <Snow_Wolf> i can't imagine the Ramseys letting their little girl go on any kind of a photo shoot without one of them along
[21:01] <CarolinaG> how do you know that steve
[21:01] <steve_co> after dressingherabd perhaps redressing her andwiping her body and arraging thngs in a veryspecific way.
[21:01] <Jeralyn> Why doesn't your scenario work with the Ramseys' being clueless?
[21:02] <steve_co> Would theyhae changed herclothers
[21:02] <jameson> She was found in the clothes she was put to bed in.
[21:02] <jameson> (sorry)
[21:02] <Jeralyn> That's my understanding as well
[21:03] <steve_co> her underwear was the same?
[21:03] <Jeralyn> for what are you sorry?
[21:03] <jameson> BayBB - your turn
[21:03] <jameson> yes, same underwear -
[21:03] <jameson> for talking out of turn lol
[21:03] <steve_co> it was to large? Whowouldnot knowthesize of a girlk's underwear andhatsize fitor didn't?
[21:04] <jameson> BayBB?
[21:04] <BayBB> What do you know about the fight after the funeral? Was there a gun pulled?
[21:04] <steve_co> Yes ,Fleet white pulled a gun onJR. Whywouldhe dothis if hewere anionnocen bystander?
[21:04] <Blue> wow
[21:04] <BayBB> I had heard he was the one that had a gun pulled on him
[21:04] <Jeralyn> Because John figured out his part? (A theory not an accusation, folks)
[21:05] <steve_co> perhaps
<Aquarius2> So are you suggesting that wherever she was at this porn photo shoot that they put the wrong panties on her before they brought her home?
[21:05] <BayBB> Thanks I have no more questions at this time
[21:05] <Mamawati> how do we know this is a fact, that Fleet pulled a gun?
[21:05] <steve_co> no, thatherpants were changed after she got home.
[21:06] <Jeralyn> is this after her body was wiped down?
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[21:06] <steve_co> three eyewitnesses havesaid this.
[21:06] <Mamawati> thanks
<Aquarius2> eyewitnesses on the gun incident?
[21:06] <steve_co> three eyewitneses downingeorgia saidfleet pulled a gun
[21:08] <Blue> I'd like to know the name of the cp series that Daphne is supposed to appear in.
[21:08] <Snow_Wolf> cp?
[21:08] <Blue> child porn
[21:08] <Snow_Wolf> thanks
[21:09] <jameson> lagging here - if you want to open this up to chat, Steve, just say so - but it can get confusing if everyone talks at once.
[21:09] <steve_co> I don't knowany name. A longtimeago theboulder authorities were told to lookfor pix of thischild andIdon't thinkthey haven ever onethat. it isworthpursuing.
[21:09] <jameson> Snow? Question??
[21:09] <steve_co> fine with me
[21:10] <jameson> OK - open chat
[21:10] <theneedle> have there been perverts stalking pageants? can you elaborate? Have there been any actual arrests?
[21:10] <Snow_Wolf> steve, do you think it is high power people that is involved in the porn ring?
[21:10] <steve_co> yes. People inboulder-denve area were spoecifically ordered notto attendanymorepageantas as they were predatiors.
[21:10] <CarolinaG> steve do you have any idea where she may have been killed
[21:11] <Afton> who gave that order in Boulder
[21:11] <steve_co> I think she was killed inamakeshift photo/film studio inboulder.
[21:11] <jameson> Steve, I understand JonBenet dressed herself in those panties that day - wore them all day and she was found in them - no one redressed her - and imagine anyone putting wet panties and longjohns on her - who would bother - and leave on a garrote? I don't think so.
[21:11] <theneedle> what people? who warned them?What do the operators of these pageants have to say?
[21:12] <Blue> Please let Steve answer
[21:12] <steve_co> they were warned by certainnmothers whosaw theunderbelly of the pagent world and got ride ofd certainpeople.
[21:13] <theneedle> so not by the authorities? Thankyou for clarifying
[21:13] <CarolinaG> what evidence makes you believe that it was this particular studio, this the first I have heard of this place and who owns the studio
[21:13] <steve_co> Idon't know a precise location,butIthinkseveralpeople were presentwhen shedied.
[21:13] <mapek> Steve, I met you last fall in Boulder. Shortly after we met, a friend of mine came across a flyer called PropWash - a "part-time detective" gave it to my friend. Do you know anything about that flyer or it's origins or authenticity?
[21:14] <Jeralyn> Have the authorities interviewed any of the people who were present?
[21:14] <steve_co> no
[21:14] <steve_co> no
[21:14] <CarolinaG> good question
[21:14] <CarolinaG> why not
[21:14] <CarolinaG> do you know who they are
[21:14] <jameson> The Ramseys have no history of neglecting or abusing their children - while I admit they may have unwittingly or stupidly brought their daughter to a place where pedophiles may have congregated, well, pedophiles are at parks too! What makes you feel John or Patsy would go along with such a plan. John Andrew and Melinda say no way!
[21:14] <steve_co> they aren't known. Thatiswhythe evidebcecan'
[21:15] <steve_co> can't be matched. Oneperson may be knownbut heisn't talking.
[21:15] <theneedle> In your opinion, why have the authorities not taken your suspicions seriously?
[21:16] <Snow_Wolf> who is that one person?
[21:16] <steve_co> because they don't really wanttoopen this door. It is ugly,ugly,ugkly, especially inBOulder.The grand jury is forcingthemtodowhat they don't wantto do, finally.
[21:16] <steve_co> take a guess.
[21:16] <sissi> christine griffin was involved in pageants prior to JB,has she been questioned as to knowledge of this underbelly?
[21:16] <Blue> Have you ever seen a cp series called Cindy Video?
[21:16] <Snow_Wolf> White
[21:16] <theneedle> Fleet?
[21:16] <jameson> Can we talk about a certain suspect who was wearing a dark blue sweatshirt or sweater that night? Has your witness said that suspect was, no doubt, part of the porn scene?
[21:16] <steve_co> yes i have seen that one
[21:17] <mapek> Steven, are you aware of JonBenet having more than one dance instructor?
[21:17] <Blue> then you may know my guess.
[21:17] <Blue> ?
[21:17] <CarolinaG> tell us blue
[21:17] <steve_co> yes,shehadmorethan one.
[21:17] <jameson> Yes, I agree with Blue - the Cindy set could be very important
[21:17] <mapek> steve, does the name Gabriel Wilson mean anything to you?
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[21:17] <Blue> includes cord, electrical device
[21:17] <Blue> in at least one shot.
[21:18] <theneedle> please elaborate
[21:18] <steve_co> no
[21:18] <Blue> needle, this is very touchy
[21:18] <steve_co> who is that?
[21:18] <jameson> Cindy is the screen name of a child shown in some hard core porn on alt.binary
[21:18] <jameson> some of us think the child is a playmate of JBR's
[21:19] <mapek> he claims he was a dance instructor of JB's - has stated tht to Japanese media, but i do not know if he was indeed her dance instructor
[21:19] <Blue> its ok to talk about this jams?
[21:19] <CarolinaG> Which child?
[21:19] <jameson> but we can't say more than that without risking legal problems
[21:19] <theneedle> ok thankyou jams
[21:19] <CarolinaG> did daphne do pageants too
[21:19] <theneedle> got it
[21:20] <steve_co> no
[21:20] <sissi> christine taught her some "moves" has she been questioned about the porno angle of pageants?
[21:20] <jameson> do you think Proiscilla and Daphne were jealous of JBR's success in the pageants?
[21:20] <steve_co> i don't know.
[21:21] <nelda> Boulder authorities are looking for a man named Sever for sexual assault. He has photographed young girls. Do you know if he was in Boulder when Jon Benet was killed? Could there be a connection?
[21:21] <CarolinaG> she only did 9 in two years
[21:21] <steve_co> they are finallt looking at these kindsofpeople andthatis progress.
[21:22] <Blue> Steve... vis a vis Cindy... the perp is also IMO in Lolita Special Color circa 1978. Can you connect?
[21:22] <jameson> ARE THEY???
[21:22] <CarolinaG> You mentioned earlier about evidence in the garrott, what evidence are you refering to that proves she was killed somewhere else
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[21:23] <steve_co> the questionis can theboulder cops connect thedots around themurder thatare sitting ther now.
[21:23] <Blue> .
[21:23] <river> Wow, lots of folks. hello!
[21:23] <steve_co> DNA evidence, hairevidence,fiberevidence onner body. Add itallup and thecrimescene at homeisnotthecrimescene.
[21:23] <Blue> hi rivb
[21:23] <river> Hi
[21:23] <Jeralyn> hi river
[21:23] <theneedle> hey river
[21:23] <river> hi all!
[21:23] <river> I made it!
[21:23] <CarolinaG> hey river
[21:24] <Afton> welcome river
[21:24] <jameson> Steve - do you really think they are looking at those people now? I have heard of one who is unavailable.
[21:24] <river> What's happenen?
[21:24] <Afton> Singular is here answering questions
[21:24] <Afton> Jeralyn is here as well
[21:24] <river> OK, Hi Afton
[21:24] <CarolinaG> In a television interview, you stated that a large percentage of pageant girls are involved in porn. Where was this data and how was it collected
[21:24] <river> Yes, Hi Jerayn.
[21:25] <Jeralyn> That's ok, Steve's area of expertise is a little more titillating than mine!
[21:25] <theneedle> Jeralyn, is that guy who subs for Geraldo a relative of his? They are so much alike
[21:25] <sissi> were any of the known players connected to this porno,the photographers ,friends etc?those mentioned in schillers book
[21:25] <theneedle> the young guy with the light hair
[21:25] <river> Which one is that?
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[21:26] <Blue> Can we let Steve answer Carolina's question?
[21:26] <Jeralyn> No that is David Gregory, he is terrific, he was here the entire time of the OKC trials covering them.
[21:26] <river> Oh, He was doing Internight too.
[21:26] <jameson> Steve - have the cops been talking to you at all now??
[21:26] <theneedle> he was on last night, dont know his name
[21:26] <Jeralyn> David was a reporter for NBC and now has his own show crosstalk on msnbc at 1pm mst. He just took over subbing for Geraldo for Marcia,
[21:26] <steve_co> I wantto backup a littlebit and clarify somethingabout whatIsaid earlieraboutFleet white. There were variousreports comingfrom georgia that heandRamsey had thebad fightanda gun was produced. Iwastold by twosources thatWhite produced it at theheightoftheconflict,I was notthere andthisis senstivematerial. Iwouldask thatitbetreated withdiscretionb inbthis situation. I am motthesource ofthis report andIwantthatmadeclear. ButI didhear it.
[21:26] <jameson> That part of the chat will not be posted - \
[21:27] <Blue> Ok Steve, can you answer Carolina's question?
[21:27] <jameson> Others should respect that request
[21:27] <steve_co> thankyouvery much.
[21:27] <jameson> <CarolinaG> In a television interview, you stated that a large percentage
[21:27] <jameson> of pageant girls are involved in porn. Where was this data and how was
[21:27] <jameson> it collected
[21:28] <steve_co> itwas a number givento meby someone who had her daugher inpagents andthentookher out for this reason.
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[21:28] <river> I have doubts about porn going on at these kiddie pageants. Seems to me it's mainly for families.
[21:28] <CarolinaG> that is not reliable data
[21:28] <CarolinaG> I know not!
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[21:28] <river> Iknow a young woman whose child did this for a while. There was nothing like that at those pageants.
[21:29] <river> No porn.
[21:29] <CarolinaG> There is a pageant dress co in Colorado that says business has actually been better since
[21:29] <Jeralyn> it is what is referred to as "anecdotal evidence". Just like the housekeeper saying the blanket was in the dryer when she hadn't been to the house in days.
[21:29] <jameson> Steve - have the cops been talking to you at all now??
[21:29] <CarolinaG> that it has sparked interest
[21:29] <steve_co> not lately
[21:29] <steve_co> excellebnt point, Jeralyn
[21:30] <jameson> Do you really think they are looking into this stuff seriously?
[21:30] <steve_co> not seriouslyenough.
[21:30] <river> I think JonBenet's name might have been picked up as a result of the pageants, but I think her family's wealth is what was more public.
[21:30] <jameson> I can state for a fact that the blanket was NOT in the dryer
[21:30] <theneedle> I really find it hard to believe that so many of those pageant parents would do that.Most children allowed to be photoed for that stuff are not the "pageant mom" type
[21:30] <Blue> truth is that most cop is from ast europe and japan
[21:30] <Blue> cp
[21:30] <river> From what I know that is true,
[21:31] <steve_co> what happenswhen the parents aren't there?
[21:31] <jameson> Steve - the Ramseys had no history of putting their kids in any situations like that - why do you think they would that night?
[21:31] <river> someone has to take a six year old.
[21:31] <CarolinaG> Pageant moms put there child on a pedistal that is degrading I can see porn potential in teenage or miss pageant girls not little ones
[21:31] <river> One parent, close friend, granddparent would have to be there.
[21:31] <steve_co> truth is childporn is lotsofplaces. Lookat what haoppoened inBOulder, theperfet towbn, last weekend withJerry Barry.
[21:32] <jameson> Patsy was a "mother hen " they say she was very protective - walked by the float inthe parade, never left JBR at the pageants
[21:32] <sissi> exactly,drop them off for a session,and go have lunch..most trust these photographers...
[21:32] <theneedle> to use anecdotal evidence as weighty evidence seems kind of questionable
[21:32] <CarolinaG> I agree
[21:32] <jameson> Patsy never left her daughter with any photographer -
Reply
#3
[20:36] <Jeralyn> So you think the "Santa" (and I don't mean to imply McReynolds" who told jonbenet santa would visit xmas night is the one who took her from the house and she went willinglyb because she recognized him?
[20:36] <river> I doubt there was only one kid there at a time. Probably came in with others.
[20:36] <CarolinaG> a photo shoot is work
[20:36] <Jeralyn> I meant do you think?
[20:36] <river> The parents would watch each others kids, if one had to be away for a while.
[20:36] <jameson> so what makes Steve think they would let two men take her that night - I can picture Cindy's parents doing it - for the money
[20:36] <steve_co> no.
[20:36] <Blue> Let Steve answer please.
[20:36] <theneedle> yes but Steve, those childrens mother was not very protective, pedophiles prey on kids who have parents that dont pay enough attentiopn, again the Ramseys dont fit
[20:37] <river> Agree
[20:37] <CarolinaG> Do you think a Santa took her from the home?
[20:37] <steve_co> I think someoneat the Dec, 23 xhristmas party gave JB a stufed bear that was a favor forafavor tobe returnd later thatweek. whenshewoulddosomethingwiththatperson. PR didn't knowaboutthebear,but didJR?
[20:37] <sissi> Patsy wouldn't trust a friend to take the girls for a session? was she there when daphne and JB were photo'd for Easter?
[20:38] <river> Come on. JR? Never.
[20:38] <jameson> Burke, the housekeeper, no one remembers the bear
[20:38] <Blue> I may agree with Steve on the bear.
[20:38] <steve_co> Who gavew the kid thepineapple?
[20:38] <river> No history. Nothing.
[20:38] <river> Nothing definite about pineapple either.

END OF SECTION INSERTED.........

[21:35] <theneedle> you mean the particle of vegetable matter?
[21:35] <river> I think that was a suggestion made to coroner by police.
[21:35] <steve_co> whogave the kikd her lastfood?
[21:35] <Blue> Mayb the perp
[21:35] <CarolinaG> good thing Lovely isnt here to argue that point hehe
[21:35] <river> she ate at the white's
[21:35] <theneedle> she ate it herself at the party
[21:36] <river> I'll argue.
[21:36] <steve_co> tghen why did JR changehisstoryabout the pineapple?
[21:36] <CarolinaG> I think she got up and ate it herself that night
[21:36] <river> I think, we don't know.
[21:36] <jameson> it wasn't saved - not listed on autopsy - not saved
[21:36] <river> We don't know what was found precisely in her stomach.
[21:36] <Blue> if she thought the perp was going to take her to santa's workshop.
[21:36] <river> We don't know when it was eaten.
[21:36] <jameson> JR didn't change any story? explain!
[21:36] <theneedle> Im not convinced there was any story-changing
[21:37] <steve_co> but we knowthatiswas eatenand hermother says sheknowsnolthing about it, as sheknows nothingaboutthe bear...
[21:37] <river> Me neither.
[21:37] <Blue> So both belong to the perp?
[21:38] <river> the tabs change the stories.
[21:38] <steve_co> inthe police reports JR changed hisstoyr about puttingherto bed and thepineapple. PR isthe consistent one,rightfromthebeginning.
[21:38] <steve_co> she never wavers. Ever.
[21:38] <theneedle> so you think they know all about the bear and the so called pineapple?
[21:38] <river> We don't know!
[21:38] <Blue> The bear and the pineapple were gifts from the perp?
[21:38] <steve_co> who is they?
[21:39] <river> We only know the coroner found a trace of some vegee or fruit in her stomach.
[21:39] <CarolinaG> the bear according to Michael is important what do either of you know about the bear the manufacturer?
[21:39] <river> It could have been anything.
[21:39] <jameson> I never heard where JR changed his story - he doesn't know about the pineapple or bear
[21:39] <river> Perhaps it was given to her at Christmas, but parents didn't notice. In the photos of JB there were so many santas that morning.
[21:39] <theneedle> Im sorry, I forgot you think only John was in on it
[21:39] <CarolinaG> so the perp knew she like pineapple?
[21:39] <river> There were Santas all over the floor and the tables all around her in the photos taken from the documentary that morning,
[21:39] <steve_co> johnwas in onit,I'msuggesting, fromatotally and completly innocent pointof view.
[21:40] <river> We don't know it was pineapple!
[21:40] <CarolinaG> it was on the counter top
[21:40] <river> that was just a suggestion thrown out by police, because some of it was supposedly on the table.
[21:40] <river> Whatever.
[21:40] <Afton> how could john be in on it from a totally innocent point of view
[21:40] <theneedle> It isnt innocent to cover up your childs death
[21:40] <steve_co> a fatherlets hisdaughter gosomewhere with a trusted person.She willbe backin anhour...
[21:41] <river> John isn't in on it. come on.
[21:41] <river> How do you know that?
[21:41] <CarolinaG> Can you please answer the bear question
[21:41] <river> What friend?
[21:41] <river> When?
[21:41] <jameson> But what father for ANY reason lets two men take a 6 year old out of his house on Christmas night - I just don't believe there would be ANY reason you would, or my husband would, or John would
[21:41] <theneedle> and she comes back dead.....and he covers it up?
[21:41] <river> He didn't
[21:41] <river> No way!
[21:41] <theneedle> who wrote the ransom note?
[21:41] <sissi> two men? maybe he let the whites take her to visit daphne?
[21:42] <CarolinaG> what do you know about the bear? The manufacturer ?
[21:42] <Afton> you are saying that he gave permission to take a sleepy child away on Christmas night knowing they were leaving the next morning
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[21:42] <Blue> Why won't your theory work with a secret visit from Santa Claus (not necessarily McReynolds) and the Ramseys asleep?
[21:42] <river> I don't think anybody knows much about the bear.
[21:42] <dvus> after 10pm- no less
[21:42] <steve_co> I'msayingshedidn't die inthe house anbd her parents didnot kill her.
[21:43] <Afton> can you change your theory that John did not know she was taken that night???
[21:43] <jameson> at 10 at night after a busy Christmas and them leaving at 7 the next morning? No way!
[21:43] <nelda> Have any of the media people covering the case changed their minds about who did it?
[21:43] <river> We don't know where she died.
[21:43] <theneedle> who wrote the ransom note?
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[21:43] <river> Nobody knows for sure.
[21:43] <Blue> Will your theory work with a secret visit and parents asleep?
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[21:43] <steve_co> The rest is wide open. MAybe anotherscenario worksbetter than mine, butI believeher parents are innocent of murder or an accidenta; death.
[21:43] <mapek> steve, are you saying john was not with the men who took her?
[21:43] <river> That's the mystery. Nobody knows anything for sure,
[21:43] <river> There's no hard evidence here. Nada
[21:43] <steve_co> Andsomethingis beingcovered up...
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[21:44] <river> I don't believe the parents are covering up anything. Not the type. No history.
[21:44] <CarolinaG> What do you know about Jill McReynolds?
[21:44] <sissi> they would cover? this is the part I can't imagine
[21:44] <steve_co> There's hard evidence thatafter 31 monthsof tryingtoprove theRamseys killed theirchild,thecops have failed.
[21:44] <mapek> but you feel john is guilty of allowing jonbenet to be taken for a photo shoot that nite? then why did he take a sleeping pill?
[21:44] <river> He didn't. Not JR.
[21:44] <jameson> I read your book and followed until you involved John - I think it is a possible theory - but not with a parent involved
[21:44] <steve_co> maybe hecouldn'tget tosleep...
[21:44] <river> I'll never believe that.
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[21:45] <mapek> steve, why wouldn't he wait up for her return?
[21:45] <river> who is giving?
[21:45] <steve_co> i'msayingthat hedid.
[21:45] <river> gliving?
[21:45] <sissi> who would he cover for.steve?
[21:45] <jameson> open chat - I am watching
[21:45] <river> HOw do you know that, Steve?
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[21:46] <mapek> steve, then why would he take a sleeping pill?
[21:46] <steve_co> who wold he cover from is thequestion.
[21:46] <river> huh?
[21:46] <steve_co> who was the coverup primarily intended for?
[21:46] <CarolinaG> who would he cover up for?
[21:46] <Blue> Who had power over John?
[21:46] <river> There would have to be a history. These people had no history, nothing weird about them.
[21:46] <river> Nobody. An intruder got into the house. That's it.
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[21:47] <steve_co> these are notweird people. Thgat is the point. Theyare good people whoexposed theirdaughter to something bad.
[21:47] <river> I don't believe it.
[21:47] <Blue> But maybe they didn't know it was bad?
[21:47] <steve_co> that's gthepoint too. It wasbn't supposed to be bad.
[21:47] <CarolinaG> no way
[21:47] <sissi> I see,a mistake,you are saying,that he can't uncover,without being guilty himself?
[21:47] <jameson> Blue - would you let two men taqke Lil Blue out at night without you??
[21:47] <Blue> Until they woke up Dec 26 at 530
[21:48] <river> The pageants aren't bad, The media makes it look that way. Slows up the film clips, adds mysterious music.
[21:48] <river> Hype
[21:48] <steve_co> When younormalize child porn,as our culture has lately started todo,bad thingshappen.
[21:48] <CarolinaG> its bad no porn in house
[21:48] <river> Our culture? Not mine. I've never seen it.
[21:48] <CarolinaG> who moralizes it?
[21:48] <Blue> Jams.... nope.
[21:48] <river> That's a sub-culture.
[21:48] <CarolinaG> It is disgusting to think of children being abused
[21:49] <jameson> If it happened at 2 on a Saturday afternoon, I might wonder but we are talking about waking up an exhausted child and you think John would think it was an innocent thing?
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[21:49] <river> And the Ramseys weren't invovled in a sub-culture. No evidence.
[21:50] <sissi> I can believe she was taken out and murdered,but not jr's involvement..
[21:50] <steve_co> Jeralyn and Iare gettingoff now. Iagainrequest that you not mention the Fleet White busines.Thank youverymuchforhavingme onandasking very good questions. I'mnotsayingmy scenaioris absolteuly right, notat all. I'm sayingthetwoothersceanios have produced notresults at all. So it's timefornew ones andnew questions.
[21:50] <river> It's just a theory. no proof here.
[21:50] <CarolinaG> other people would have come forward, especially if they were in it for the money to tell their story
[21:50] <jameson> I just don't think they were that stupid that they would think that would b4e an innocent thing - and they have always been very protective parents of all the children
[21:50] <river> John's older children, ex-wife, nothing. there would be something if he were into stuff like that.
[21:50] <Qtner> the problem I have with the Singular hypothesis is the lack of supporting evidence linked to the Ramseys - if it's a gut feeling, that's fine - but I don't want to confuse the two
[21:50] <mapek> thanks for answering our questions, steve
[21:50] <Jeralyn> Thanks all, till next time.
[21:50] <nelda> Thanks for coming.
[21:50] <theneedle> thankyou for coming Steve
[21:50] <sissi> thanks steve and jeralyn..for an interesting hour
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[21:50] <Blue> Thanks Steve, I agree with a lot of what you say.
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[21:50] <jameson> Thanks Steve and Jeralyn - goodnight
[21:51] <Snow_Wolf> hi, geno(:
[21:51] <CarolinaG> thanks for visiting
<Aqua2> thanks Steve and Jeralyn
[21:51] <river> Have a nice evening.
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