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  Chuck Green
Posted by: jameson245 - 11-14-2018, 10:24 AM - Forum: Names to remember - No Replies

Michael Tracey - "Boulder Law Enforcement put a ring in Chuck Green's nose and led him around on a leash.  Law Enforcement used the media to build a case that law enforcement knew it couldn't construct in court."

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  Nyla's obit
Posted by: jameson245 - 11-02-2018, 05:37 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - No Replies

Nyla Marie White June 8,1923 — August 5, 2014
June 8,1923 — August 5, 2014

August 21, 2014



[url=https://www.aspentimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/obitwhite-atd-082114.jpg]

[Image: obitwhite-atd-082114-293x325.jpg]


Nyla Marie Overseth was the daughter of Norwegian/American parents, Henry and Millie Overseth. She was born in Minneapolis and raised in Sioux Falls, with her sisters, Eileen, Lillian, May, Marilyn and brother, Jim. Henry had a small grocery and Nyla, having taught herself to drive at 13, did the deliveries and often ran the store. Restless in Depression-era South Dakota, Nyla longed to travel. As a child, she heard the song "Faraway Places with Strange-Sounding Names" and she couldn't wait to see the world. After high school, with WWII underway, with no money to go away to college, she left for Long Beach, CA, getting a job as a secretary. After the exciting war years, she married handsome California-bred former WWII pilot and (for a brief time) actor, Fleet White. Then they were off to Hawaii for a few years, starting a family and enjoying the beach life, returning to California, where Fleet got into the oil business.
After years of raising their family, and building a business, Nyla and Fleet were able to realize many of their dreams. With Nyla's talent for design, she loved building their dream house in Newport Beach, where they enjoyed hosting fabulous parties for friends and family. Nyla never used a decorator or caterer. She had her own vision and loved to do everything herself. The family went to Aspen to ski in the mid-sixties and Nyla, missing the changing of the seasons in California, talked Fleet into purchasing a chalet that they named "Le Petit Chalet Blanc", which they owned from 1964 to now. They loved to host their many friends over the years and they hosted many memorable parties, especially at New Years Eve.
Nyla also finally got to travel … ski trips every year to Europe, and finally seeing all of those "Faraway Places with the Strange-Sounding Names". Especially after Fleet's retirement, they traveled the world, seeing every place that Nyla had ever dreamed of seeing. They also went back to Hawaii every year, and joined old friends on their barge to cruise canals in Holland and France. In her 50's, Nyla decided to bicycle around Europe and asked her daughter, Lani, to go with her. So, for several years, on their own,they set off on their bicycle adventures … for each trip, spending four weeks bicycling, carrying everything on their bicycles and.never knowing where they would be staying each night. They bicycled through southern England, Holland, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, and then Norway, where they visited cousins and the historic family home near Oslo. Always curious, Nyla was also an adventurous traveler … excited for everything that came her way, always planning the next trip. After several bicycle trips in Europe, Nyla wanted to bicycle in China. So, Nyla and Lani joined several friends and a group from Aspen for a month of bicycling. A highlight of that trip was following the Great Wall from Beijing to the sea. Then, Nyla wanted to bicycle in Mongolia. That adventure culminated with a historic day in 1989 when they accompanied the march of students to Tiananmen Square the day before martial law was declared. It was an unforgettable day and the trip was a remarkable adventure for Nyla, who was now in her mid sixties.
With the arrival of grandchildren, Nyla and Fleet traveled a little less, and loved to finally be grandparents. They spent more time in Aspen, where daughter, Lani, had lived for many years, and to be closer to their son, Fleet Jr. and his family who lived in Boulder. After 60 years of marriage, Fleet Sr. passed away and Nyla moved full time to her favorite home that she had so lovingly decorated, her little chalet, in Aspen. She had always planned to someday make Aspen her final home. But, even with the severe macular degeneration that stole much of her sight, Nyla didn't want to give up travel, even though she had to give up skiing, bicycling and driving. So Nyla and Lani went to Europe at Christmastime for several years, cruising the rivers of Europe at that magical time of year.

Nyla loved to spend as much time as possible with her grandchildren, watching their ski racing and piano lessons, and seeing them attend the US Naval Academy. She was proud to see them both graduated and commissioned, and now serving on ships in the Pacific. Nyla's last illness, shortly after her 91st birthday, left her very frail, but she never lost her memories and her desire to laugh. She had an amazing, full life … hard to condense into this obituary. There was probably not much left that she had wanted to do, but hadn't done. The problem was that she wanted to do everything again and again. Nyla, my mother, didn't want to miss out on anything. She loved to laugh… and was always elegant, beautiful, fun-loving, generous and kind..
Nyla is survived by daughter, Lani White of Aspen; son, Fleet White Jr. of Boulder; grandson, Lt. Fleet White III, stationed in Honolulu and granddaughter, Ensign Daphne White, stationed in San Diego, sister, Marilyn of Encinitas, many beloved nieces and nephews….and her kitty, Angelique.
A celebration of Nyla's life will be held at her home in Aspen on Saturday, August 23, from 5-7. Contact Lani with any questions (aspenrealestate@aol.com).

— Lani White

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  Nyla's obit
Posted by: jameson245 - 11-02-2018, 05:27 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - No Replies

Nyla Marie White June 8,1923 — August 5, 2014
June 8,1923 — August 5, 2014

August 21, 2014



[url=https://www.aspentimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/obitwhite-atd-082114.jpg]

[Image: obitwhite-atd-082114-293x325.jpg]


Nyla Marie Overseth was the daughter of Norwegian/American parents, Henry and Millie Overseth. She was born in Minneapolis and raised in Sioux Falls, with her sisters, Eileen, Lillian, May, Marilyn and brother, Jim. Henry had a small grocery and Nyla, having taught herself to drive at 13, did the deliveries and often ran the store. Restless in Depression-era South Dakota, Nyla longed to travel. As a child, she heard the song "Faraway Places with Strange-Sounding Names" and she couldn't wait to see the world. After high school, with WWII underway, with no money to go away to college, she left for Long Beach, CA, getting a job as a secretary. After the exciting war years, she married handsome California-bred former WWII pilot and (for a brief time) actor, Fleet White. Then they were off to Hawaii for a few years, starting a family and enjoying the beach life, returning to California, where Fleet got into the oil business.
After years of raising their family, and building a business, Nyla and Fleet were able to realize many of their dreams. With Nyla's talent for design, she loved building their dream house in Newport Beach, where they enjoyed hosting fabulous parties for friends and family. Nyla never used a decorator or caterer. She had her own vision and loved to do everything herself. The family went to Aspen to ski in the mid-sixties and Nyla, missing the changing of the seasons in California, talked Fleet into purchasing a chalet that they named "Le Petit Chalet Blanc", which they owned from 1964 to now. They loved to host their many friends over the years and they hosted many memorable parties, especially at New Years Eve.
Nyla also finally got to travel … ski trips every year to Europe, and finally seeing all of those "Faraway Places with the Strange-Sounding Names". Especially after Fleet's retirement, they traveled the world, seeing every place that Nyla had ever dreamed of seeing. They also went back to Hawaii every year, and joined old friends on their barge to cruise canals in Holland and France. In her 50's, Nyla decided to bicycle around Europe and asked her daughter, Lani, to go with her. So, for several years, on their own,they set off on their bicycle adventures … for each trip, spending four weeks bicycling, carrying everything on their bicycles and.never knowing where they would be staying each night. They bicycled through southern England, Holland, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, and then Norway, where they visited cousins and the historic family home near Oslo. Always curious, Nyla was also an adventurous traveler … excited for everything that came her way, always planning the next trip. After several bicycle trips in Europe, Nyla wanted to bicycle in China. So, Nyla and Lani joined several friends and a group from Aspen for a month of bicycling. A highlight of that trip was following the Great Wall from Beijing to the sea. Then, Nyla wanted to bicycle in Mongolia. That adventure culminated with a historic day in 1989 when they accompanied the march of students to Tiananmen Square the day before martial law was declared. It was an unforgettable day and the trip was a remarkable adventure for Nyla, who was now in her mid sixties.
With the arrival of grandchildren, Nyla and Fleet traveled a little less, and loved to finally be grandparents. They spent more time in Aspen, where daughter, Lani, had lived for many years, and to be closer to their son, Fleet Jr. and his family who lived in Boulder. After 60 years of marriage, Fleet Sr. passed away and Nyla moved full time to her favorite home that she had so lovingly decorated, her little chalet, in Aspen. She had always planned to someday make Aspen her final home. But, even with the severe macular degeneration that stole much of her sight, Nyla didn't want to give up travel, even though she had to give up skiing, bicycling and driving. So Nyla and Lani went to Europe at Christmastime for several years, cruising the rivers of Europe at that magical time of year.

Nyla loved to spend as much time as possible with her grandchildren, watching their ski racing and piano lessons, and seeing them attend the US Naval Academy. She was proud to see them both graduated and commissioned, and now serving on ships in the Pacific. Nyla's last illness, shortly after her 91st birthday, left her very frail, but she never lost her memories and her desire to laugh. She had an amazing, full life … hard to condense into this obituary. There was probably not much left that she had wanted to do, but hadn't done. The problem was that she wanted to do everything again and again. Nyla, my mother, didn't want to miss out on anything. She loved to laugh… and was always elegant, beautiful, fun-loving, generous and kind..
Nyla is survived by daughter, Lani White of Aspen; son, Fleet White Jr. of Boulder; grandson, Lt. Fleet White III, stationed in Honolulu and granddaughter, Ensign Daphne White, stationed in San Diego, sister, Marilyn of Encinitas, many beloved nieces and nephews….and her kitty, Angelique.
A celebration of Nyla's life will be held at her home in Aspen on Saturday, August 23, from 5-7. Contact Lani with any questions (aspenrealestate@aol.com).

— Lani White

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  from another state 1961
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 07:50 PM - Forum: Colorado crimes - No Replies

Anne Marie Burr - Abducted by a Serial Killer?

[Image: renderTimingPixel.png]


Anne Marie Burr, aged 8, disappeared from her Tacoma, Washington home on August 31st, 1961.



[b]Timeline of Events[/b]
[i]A week before August 31st[/i]
Neighbors report seeing someone looking through windows of houses in the Burr's neighborhood. No one is able to give a good description of the "Peeping Tom".
[i]August 31st[/i]
Evening/Nighttime: Burr children and parents go to bed. One sister and two brothers went to the basement where their rooms were, Ann Marie and her younger sister went to their bedroom, the parents to theirs.
Middle of the Night: Anne Marie's younger sister begins to cry because the cast on her broken arm is bothering her. Ann Marie takes her sister into her parents' bedroom where they are both told to go back to bed.
Later: Parents awake to their dog barking, but assume it's because of the rainstorms that had been coming through the area and go back to sleep. The other children report not waking at all during the night.
[i]September 1st[/i]
5:30AM Anne Marie's Mother goes to check on her daughters and notices Ann Marie is not in bed. She begins to look around the house and sees that their front door which had been locked the previous night was now open and unlocked. Their living room window which was always open an inch or two was open wider. The family calls the police and continues searching the house for Ann Marie.
Sometime later that morning: The Police arrive and immediately launch an abduction investigation. Upon further inspection to the opened living room window they see that someone had pushed a garden bench under the window. There was also a footprint left from a Men's Keds sneaker, size 6 or 7. The police surmise this was made by a young adult male, or a small adult male. A red fiber was also found attached to the window sill, but nothing ever came of it.
Police investigated several sex offenders in the neighborhood but nothing was ever found, no new evidence surfaced, and no trace of Ann Marie was ever seen again.



Despite an exhaustive search and heavy questioning of the neighborhood no trace was ever found of Ann Marie's killer and her case grew cold. In the late 70's her case was given renewed interest when a man named Ted Bundy stood trial for the kidnapping, rape, and murders of women across the county.
I'm not going to hash out too much of Ted Bundy's history here; I will include links at the bottom if you don't know who he is or want to brush up on the finer points.
The reason for the renewed interest with the Bundy trials was because of the coincidental connections between him and Ann Marie;
  • In the 60's Ted Bundy and his mother were living with his great-uncle, Jack Cromwell, who happened to be Ann Marie's piano teacher.
  • They lived in close proximity to each other.
  • Relatives have stated that Ann Marie and Ted Bundy were friendly with each other and she knew he was the nephew of her piano teacher. As far as they know she wouldn't have had any reason to fear him.
  • Ted Bundy would have been 15 at the time of Ann Marie's disappearance, and would match the profile for the size shoe print found outside the window.
  • Bundy already had a record for wandering around late at night, and as an adult admitted to voyeurism (peeping through windows).
  • Ted Bundy had a paper route that included the Burr residence.
  • The street in front of the Burr home was being torn up for repaving the night she disappeared only to be covered with dirt and asphalt the next day. According to Burr's father the morning of her disappearance Ted Bundy was hanging around the construction site.
  • The true amount of women Ted Bundy killed is questionable. We know as his execution date drew nearer he started to hint about other murders, and give out some answers but he always refused to talk about Ann Marie Burr or would deny involvement. There is some speculation that Ted Bundy was ashamed at some of his murders, particularly ones of younger females such as 12yr old Kimberly Leach who he never admitted to but had evidence linking him as the killer.

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  from Newsweek
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 05:56 PM - Forum: Pam and Kristine Griffin - Replies (2)

FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY ON THURSDAY MORNING, DEC. 26, 1996, THE BOULDER, COLO., Police Department received a 911 call at 5:52 a.m. The caller, Patsy Ramsey, said her daughter, JonBenet, had been kidnapped and there was a ransom note. When the first officer arrived eight minutes later, he searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but found nothing. It was still dark outside.
By noon everyone was still waiting for the kidnappers to call. An hour later JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, searched the house for something that might have been taken along with his daughter. Moments later he found JonBenet's body--wrapped in a white blanket, her mouth covered with duct tape--in the wine cellar in the basement of the house. It was 1:05 p.m.
At Boulder police headquarters, Det. Sgt. Larry Mason got a page from the Ramsey house: ""We've got a body.''
""Oh, f---,'' Mason said, half aloud. ""Ron,'' he told FBI Special Agent Ron Walker, ""it's a homicide.''
Walker, an experienced FBI profiler, knew that finding JonBenet's body in her own home meant there had probably never been a kidnapping. In the case of a homicide where the dead child is found in the parents' home, the FBI's standard procedure is to investigate the parents and the immediate family first and then move outward in circles. Then would come people who had frequent access to the child--babysitters and domestic help. The next circle would contain friends and business associates. The outermost circle would be strangers. The technique was to avoid leaping over these concentric circles too quickly.
Fifteen minutes later Mason and Walker arrived at the Ramseys' house. First they looked at the body, lying now at the foot of the living-room Christmas tree, a noose around JonBenet's neck. Then they went downstairs to the wine cellar. Mason noticed that there was something about the crime scene--he couldn't put his finger on it--that made it look unnatural. Meanwhile, in the Ramseys' study, another detective overheard John Ramsey talking on the phone to his private pilot. He was making plans to fly somewhere before nightfall. Moments later Ramsey told Mason that he, his wife and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening. ""You can't leave,'' Mason told him. ""We have to talk to you.''
At 7 p.m., Detectives Fred Patterson and Greg Idler knocked on the door of the Ramseys' housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. That morning Patsy Ramsey had told police her housekeeper had a key to the house and had major money problems. The police told Hoffmann-Pugh that JonBenet had been murdered. She screamed and couldn't stop shaking. After the housekeeper settled down, they asked her to print some words on a sheet of paper--Mr. Ramsey, attachE, beheaded and the number $118,000 (unknown to her, all phrases in the ransom note)--but Linda was too upset to write. She assumed that JonBenet had been beheaded.
The police spent three hours talking to the Pughs that night. Had Linda ever witnessed any signs of sexual abuse in the Ramsey household? Had JonBenet ever wet the bed? Had Linda seen semen, blood or anything unusual on the child's bed? On anyone else's bed? Hoffmann-Pugh would know for sure she was a suspect when the police returned the next day to search her house and fingerprint her. At a local doctor's office, she cried as the police yanked strands of hair from her head and she gave blood samples.
On the afternoon of Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. ""Patsy needs you right now.'' Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenet's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. ""You need to brush your hair,'' Pam told her. ""You need to lie down a little bit.'' But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived to offer condolences, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice and lay down in the bedroom.
Patsy reached up and touched Pam's face. ""Couldn't you fix this for me?'' she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. ""Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen','' Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenet but was afraid to say.
While Patsy slept, Pam went downstairs. She found John in the living room holding the Ramseys' other child, Burke. To Pam, John Ramsey seemed to be in a trance. His face was blank. His eyes were red. ""I don't get it,'' he said over and over. Then he got up, walked outside, shook his head and asked aloud, ""Why?''

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  from Newsweek
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 05:55 PM - Forum: Pam and Kristine Griffin - No Replies

FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY ON THURSDAY MORNING, DEC. 26, 1996, THE BOULDER, COLO., Police Department received a 911 call at 5:52 a.m. The caller, Patsy Ramsey, said her daughter, JonBenet, had been kidnapped and there was a ransom note. When the first officer arrived eight minutes later, he searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but found nothing. It was still dark outside.
By noon everyone was still waiting for the kidnappers to call. An hour later JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, searched the house for something that might have been taken along with his daughter. Moments later he found JonBenet's body--wrapped in a white blanket, her mouth covered with duct tape--in the wine cellar in the basement of the house. It was 1:05 p.m.
At Boulder police headquarters, Det. Sgt. Larry Mason got a page from the Ramsey house: ""We've got a body.''
""Oh, f---,'' Mason said, half aloud. ""Ron,'' he told FBI Special Agent Ron Walker, ""it's a homicide.''
Walker, an experienced FBI profiler, knew that finding JonBenet's body in her own home meant there had probably never been a kidnapping. In the case of a homicide where the dead child is found in the parents' home, the FBI's standard procedure is to investigate the parents and the immediate family first and then move outward in circles. Then would come people who had frequent access to the child--babysitters and domestic help. The next circle would contain friends and business associates. The outermost circle would be strangers. The technique was to avoid leaping over these concentric circles too quickly.
Fifteen minutes later Mason and Walker arrived at the Ramseys' house. First they looked at the body, lying now at the foot of the living-room Christmas tree, a noose around JonBenet's neck. Then they went downstairs to the wine cellar. Mason noticed that there was something about the crime scene--he couldn't put his finger on it--that made it look unnatural. Meanwhile, in the Ramseys' study, another detective overheard John Ramsey talking on the phone to his private pilot. He was making plans to fly somewhere before nightfall. Moments later Ramsey told Mason that he, his wife and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening. ""You can't leave,'' Mason told him. ""We have to talk to you.''
At 7 p.m., Detectives Fred Patterson and Greg Idler knocked on the door of the Ramseys' housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. That morning Patsy Ramsey had told police her housekeeper had a key to the house and had major money problems. The police told Hoffmann-Pugh that JonBenet had been murdered. She screamed and couldn't stop shaking. After the housekeeper settled down, they asked her to print some words on a sheet of paper--Mr. Ramsey, attachE, beheaded and the number $118,000 (unknown to her, all phrases in the ransom note)--but Linda was too upset to write. She assumed that JonBenet had been beheaded.
The police spent three hours talking to the Pughs that night. Had Linda ever witnessed any signs of sexual abuse in the Ramsey household? Had JonBenet ever wet the bed? Had Linda seen semen, blood or anything unusual on the child's bed? On anyone else's bed? Hoffmann-Pugh would know for sure she was a suspect when the police returned the next day to search her house and fingerprint her. At a local doctor's office, she cried as the police yanked strands of hair from her head and she gave blood samples.
On the afternoon of Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. ""Patsy needs you right now.'' Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenet's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. ""You need to brush your hair,'' Pam told her. ""You need to lie down a little bit.'' But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived to offer condolences, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice and lay down in the bedroom.
Patsy reached up and touched Pam's face. ""Couldn't you fix this for me?'' she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. ""Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen','' Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenet but was afraid to say.
While Patsy slept, Pam went downstairs. She found John in the living room holding the Ramseys' other child, Burke. To Pam, John Ramsey seemed to be in a trance. His face was blank. His eyes were red. ""I don't get it,'' he said over and over. Then he got up, walked outside, shook his head and asked aloud, ""Why?''

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  from Newsweek
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 05:54 PM - Forum: Pam and Kristine Griffin - Replies (1)

FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY ON THURSDAY MORNING, DEC. 26, 1996, THE BOULDER, COLO., Police Department received a 911 call at 5:52 a.m. The caller, Patsy Ramsey, said her daughter, JonBenet, had been kidnapped and there was a ransom note. When the first officer arrived eight minutes later, he searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but found nothing. It was still dark outside.
By noon everyone was still waiting for the kidnappers to call. An hour later JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, searched the house for something that might have been taken along with his daughter. Moments later he found JonBenet's body--wrapped in a white blanket, her mouth covered with duct tape--in the wine cellar in the basement of the house. It was 1:05 p.m.
At Boulder police headquarters, Det. Sgt. Larry Mason got a page from the Ramsey house: ""We've got a body.''
""Oh, f---,'' Mason said, half aloud. ""Ron,'' he told FBI Special Agent Ron Walker, ""it's a homicide.''
Walker, an experienced FBI profiler, knew that finding JonBenet's body in her own home meant there had probably never been a kidnapping. In the case of a homicide where the dead child is found in the parents' home, the FBI's standard procedure is to investigate the parents and the immediate family first and then move outward in circles. Then would come people who had frequent access to the child--babysitters and domestic help. The next circle would contain friends and business associates. The outermost circle would be strangers. The technique was to avoid leaping over these concentric circles too quickly.
Fifteen minutes later Mason and Walker arrived at the Ramseys' house. First they looked at the body, lying now at the foot of the living-room Christmas tree, a noose around JonBenet's neck. Then they went downstairs to the wine cellar. Mason noticed that there was something about the crime scene--he couldn't put his finger on it--that made it look unnatural. Meanwhile, in the Ramseys' study, another detective overheard John Ramsey talking on the phone to his private pilot. He was making plans to fly somewhere before nightfall. Moments later Ramsey told Mason that he, his wife and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening. ""You can't leave,'' Mason told him. ""We have to talk to you.''
At 7 p.m., Detectives Fred Patterson and Greg Idler knocked on the door of the Ramseys' housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. That morning Patsy Ramsey had told police her housekeeper had a key to the house and had major money problems. The police told Hoffmann-Pugh that JonBenet had been murdered. She screamed and couldn't stop shaking. After the housekeeper settled down, they asked her to print some words on a sheet of paper--Mr. Ramsey, attachE, beheaded and the number $118,000 (unknown to her, all phrases in the ransom note)--but Linda was too upset to write. She assumed that JonBenet had been beheaded.
The police spent three hours talking to the Pughs that night. Had Linda ever witnessed any signs of sexual abuse in the Ramsey household? Had JonBenet ever wet the bed? Had Linda seen semen, blood or anything unusual on the child's bed? On anyone else's bed? Hoffmann-Pugh would know for sure she was a suspect when the police returned the next day to search her house and fingerprint her. At a local doctor's office, she cried as the police yanked strands of hair from her head and she gave blood samples.
On the afternoon of Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. ""Patsy needs you right now.'' Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenet's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. ""You need to brush your hair,'' Pam told her. ""You need to lie down a little bit.'' But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived to offer condolences, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice and lay down in the bedroom.
Patsy reached up and touched Pam's face. ""Couldn't you fix this for me?'' she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. ""Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen','' Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenet but was afraid to say.
While Patsy slept, Pam went downstairs. She found John in the living room holding the Ramseys' other child, Burke. To Pam, John Ramsey seemed to be in a trance. His face was blank. His eyes were red. ""I don't get it,'' he said over and over. Then he got up, walked outside, shook his head and asked aloud, ""Why?''

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  T. Cowen on NK's childhood
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 02:55 PM - Forum: Nancy Krebs - No Replies

Southern California

Nancy Krebs’ appalling childhood

Fleet White was born in 1913. In High school, Fleet White became friends with a classmate named Gordon Christoff. Soon each boy discovered that his friend was attracted to little girls. 

After high school, Fleet went to college. He was strong, good looking, and athletic. He sang well and had a good personality. After college, he started a business selling lubricants and invested his money in drilling for oil. He became a part owner in a very successful well in Riverside, California. If Fleet lived near you, you would be proud to have him as a member of your community. 

As with most men, Fleet liked girls. However, the problem for many young girls was that their age didn’t matter to Fleet. Fleet met and formed friendships with other men that had a similar interest in little girls. Fleet and his friends sexually abused children on a regular basis. Authorities never arrested them and they were never prosecuted, except for one—Mackey Boykin. He was able to make a plea bargain and served ten months in jail.

Fleet’s high school friend, Gordon Christoff, married Alyce and they had a daughter named Gwen. The Christoff’s asked Fleet White to be Gwen’s godfather. He accepted. Gwen grew up and in 1960; Gwen married Don Krebs. The Krebs had a daughter in 1962 and named her Nancy.

In 1966, Gordon became upset when he found Fleet fondling his granddaughter. A violent argument ensued. During this intense verbal argument, Gordon clutched his hands to his chest and died of a massive heart attack. 

After Gordon’s death, Alyce married Albert Sprague. Fleet became friends with Albert and both men shared an attraction for Nancy.

When Nancy’s father, Don Krebs, discovered that his wife was having extramarital affairs, he divorced Gwen. After the divorce, Gwen married Tom Boykin. Gwen, Nancy, and Nancy’s little sister moved into the Boykin family's trailer. 

The Boykins slept in a bedroom at one end of the trailer and the newlywed couple, Gwen and Tom, slept in a bedroom at the other end of the trailer. Nancy, her sister, and several older Boykin boys slept in the living room in the middle of the trailer. They were living in poverty.

Tom’s brother was Mackey Boykin. Mackey loved little girls and he was good with a garrote. Fleet, Albert, Tom, and Mackey became friends. To a different degree, each one was attracted to Nancy Krebs

Tom and Gwen started receiving financial support from Fleet White. Without protest from Nancy’s mother and stepfather, Fleet, Albert, and Mackey started fondling Nancy. Soon their fondling turned into having intercourse. Sometimes Nancy’s mother, stepfather, and grandmother would watch as the men had sex with her. Fleet's money and the men’s sexual contact with Nancy lasted for over a decade. As Nancy grew older and more rebellious, her mother gave Nancy drugs to gain her cooperation. As long as Nancy was available for sex, the money kept flowing.

Mackey became an expert at using a garrote. He would use the garrote to create a mild state of oxygen deprivation in a victim’s brain. When the brain is mildly oxygen starved, the body becomes very sensitive to sexual stimulation. Sexual stimulation while the brain is oxygen deprived gives an intense orgasm. Erotic asphyxiation is more pleasurable and habit forming than cocaine.

For centuries, people have been using various choking techniques to create a mild state of oxygen starvation. The garrote in the hands of a skilled practitioner can precisely control the amount of blood reaching the brain. Correctly using the garrote along with sexual stimulation can give an intense orgasm. Nancy said, “There was a reason that they did that and that was because they wanted me to be excited in the sexual way”. Nancy was sexually stimulated and aroused. Despite her age, she had an intense orgasm. 

Fleet had an adult son that lived in Boulder, Colorado. John Ramsey and Fleet Jr. were best friends.

In 1990, Nancy sought help to overcome her fear and mistrust of people. After ten years of rape victim counseling, Nancy's therapist saw a program on JonBenét's murder. The therapist was able to determine that the man Nancy had been telling her about and the Fleet in the Ramsey case were father and son. The therapist talked Nancy into going to the Boulder police.


The police interviewed Nancy and she was unable to recall the exact dates or locations of the abuse that occurred in her childhood. She would make an unreliable witness. The police determined that the abuse in California was unrelated to the murder in Colorado. Nancy's story eventually leaked to the newspapers. People called her a publicity hound. Others said she was a diseased drug addict and a liar. The public tossed her away like an old newspaper.

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  just a recap of her interviews
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 12:40 PM - Forum: Nancy Krebs - Replies (1)

OK, so here I am going to go look for a bit of background - bear with me
[b]Nancy was born on April 25, 1962 - [/b]
[b]Nyla White, Fleet's mother, stayed in touch with Nancy's grandmother over the years and sent her photos of Fleet's family. (referred to in NK interviews.)  [/b]
[b]Fleet and his family lived in Long Beach and NKs family was about an hour away in Buena Park.  So they didn't see each other every day or anything like that.  Nancy says only at holidays or special occasions like birthdays - - so we are talking maybe 10 times a year, probably less.[/b]

[b]She says Fleet SR. was molesting her from an early age - at about 3 or 4   and  that sometimes these molestations took place at her grandparents' house, but also at other places.[/b]
[b]On Fleet Jr. who would have been about 15 yr old - "I think that he was made to do things to me."[/b]

[b]2/6/1966 - Nancy would have just turned 4 - she remembers her grandfather was PROTECTING her, in  a screaming fight with Fleet SR - and he had a massive heart attack and died. [/b]
[b]She says she doesn't know what the argument was about but she says that Fleet Sr said  "he was tryin' to tough me or something" [/b]

[b]She never told her grandmother, Alyce, what was happening but her own parents not only knew about the assaults, they were involved.  Her mother, Gwen Boykin, took her to the Whites to be assaulted.[/b]

[b]Fleet SR and JR both raped her vaginally, anally and orally.   The last time Fleet SR raped her was on August 9th, 1990.  That last time, she was at her grandparents, Nyla was there, and she said her grandmother, Alyce Sprague, Albert Sprague (Alyce's husband) and Nyla White all saw Fleet SR take her to a bedroom where he raped her 3 ways.  [/b]
[b]She never told anyone about that episode.[/b]

[b]Last time Fleet JR supposedly raped her was some time between 1976 and 1978.[/b]
[b]Asked why she thinks it stopped:[/b]
A. Okay um ...any reason why Fleet White Jr. stopped the assaults back in '78 I guess (inaudible)
D. We1l..."um I think because it……it had gotten to a point where I was being abused so much that um people were noticing things where I was going to school
A. Uh-huh
D. And they reported that there was some child abuse going on
A. Okay

D. And at that point in time I went to uh sex investigation and then later uh they went to a preliminary hearing and then the person um pleaded no contest to statutory rape and sodomy 

[b]That person was Mackie Boykin, her step-father's brother and he made a plea bargain in June of 1980. He did 10 months in jail.    There was no mention of the White's at that time.  Just Boykin who lived very close to her family at the time.  She admits she didn't tell social services about the Whites at that time - and please remember, at that time she was about 18 years old.  And in part 2 of her interview she says [/b]: [b]D. Yeah I think the very first person to sexually assault me was Mackie Boykin.[/b]

[b]She also says he continued to sexually assault her after he got out of jail.[/b]
[b]She also says her Dad's parents, Harold and Lois Krebs, were involved in the sexual assaults.[/b]
[b]That's a lot of accusations - - but the only one I see brought to LE before the Ramsey murder is Mackie Boykin.[/b]


[b]Fleet and Priscilla visited Nancy's uncle and aunt in Bakersville in the mid-1980's and Nancy was present there.  She didn't speak up then.[/b]

[b]She only spoke about the Whites being involved in her abuse after signing on with Mary Bienkowski.  [/b]

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  John Douglas mentions GJ testimony
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-24-2018, 06:30 PM - Forum: Grand Jury Indictments - No Replies

.I interviewed John and Patsy and did sound tests at their home. John and Patsy's bedroom was basically a finished attic. You couldn't even hear anything from the second floor where the children slept. JonBenet as you know was found two floors below that in the basement . Going into the case I also looked at the family as suspects. That's where you always first look. The defense asked me for help but they didn't sway me or pay me to come up with an analysis that would eliminate John and Patsy. They said they didn't know if they were guilty or not but they thought they had nothing to do with the crime. In the back of my mind before I did anything I thought there was a strong possibility that they were culpable.
I've done so many cases in my life that I knew very quickly that the Ramsey's were innocent. If you've ever been to a doctor for an injury or illness they are profiling you and hopefully will come up with what ails you or the extent of your injuries and how you should be treated. I don't know about you but from my experience doctors are like any other profession. Some are exceptional and others not so. I told the the Boulder PD what I thought but they were not happy that I was helping in their minds potential killers. I told them not to take my word for it and to contact my old unit. Apparently they did but according to Lou Smit one of the profilers said he would turn in his FBI credentials if the Ramsey's were innocent. Well he was wrong and this small town PD with 1-2 homicides a year took this agents comments very seriously. I secretly testified before the grand jury and read my notes from the analysis I did. Secretly...I was told to duck down when I was driven into the courthouse garage. They didn't want the media to see me going in. I told the grand jury from my notes that I was told there is DNA evidence. i read that if there was DNA evidence that it would not be semen but rather saliva. Why? Because this was not a sex crime. It was what I call in the Crime Classification Manual (CCM) as a personal cause homicide. It turns out that the DNA was saliva. I was told that they have "evidence" and I said if you have evidence why am I here...go with your evidence.
If I believed the Ramsey's were responsible I would have said that in my analysis. I'm not a hired gun whether working for the prosecution or the defense. Unfortunately the police made several major mistakes and let a theory drive an investigation rather then evidence.

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