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  stories on SO
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-07-2018, 03:53 PM - Forum: Colorado crimes - No Replies

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Colorado’s system for identifying and warning communities about sexually violent predators – the worst rapists and child molesters – has identified almost none of them.
Since a state law went into effect in 1999, Colorado has labeled only two men not in prison as sexually violent predators, even though more than 1,300 sex offenders met the initial criteria to be labeled predators, according to an analysis by The Denver Post.
“That’s it? Amazing,” said former Colorado Rep. Steve Tool, who sponsored the bill that created the sexually violent predator designation for sex offenders considered most likely to re-offend. “I’m very surprised to hear that. After 5 1/2 years, there should be a higher number.”
The Post has found flaws throughout the system, which originally was designed to warn people about the sexually violent predator living next door, or down the street, or next to a school.
The Colorado Department of Corrections – required by law to evaluate potential predators in prison before they hit the streets – had not done a single evaluation as of this month. But as a direct result of inquiries from The Post, the DOC is quickly beginning to perform those tests.
“We made a mistake. There’s no denying we made a mistake,” DOC spokeswoman Alison Morgan said. “The instrument was developed and never administered. We have many people working on it as aggressively as possible.”
Morgan said that after The Post contacted the DOC, officials researched the statute and discovered that they are legally required to perform the evaluations with all sex offenders who meet the initial criteria based on the crimes for which they were convicted.
She said the parole board could have requested that evaluations be done, but in nearly six years it has never done so.
“Sexually violent predator” – or SVP – is a designation that requires police to inform neighbors that a sex offender lives nearby. A recent case in which a man labeled in Florida as a sexual predator moved to Highlands Ranch drew a lot of publicity from newspapers and television stations – and now the offender is moving.

In examining Colorado’s system, The Post found:

[*]Colorado’s assessment system is highly complicated compared to those of other states. Experts say it fails to identify some of the most egregious offenders, allowing them to live virtually unnoticed near unsuspecting neighbors.

[*]More than 670 convicted sex offenders living in Colorado who were categorized as having a high or moderate risk to re-offend are not on the list of sexually violent predators, according to the state probation office.
It is unclear how many evaluations are being done on the front end, when the offenders are first sentenced to prison. State officials have received records of only about 250 evaluations performed by the probation office before the sentencing of 1,365 sex offenders since 1999.
The criteria used to decide who is a sexually violent predator were specifically written to exclude many dangerous offenders. Kim English, research director for the Colorado Justice Division who spearheaded the writing of Colorado’s sexually violent predator law, said community notification unnecessarily alarms the public and prevents offenders from finding places to live.
The Colorado Parole Board has never requested that an evaluation be done on a potential sexually violent predator.
“It’s not working,” said Greig Veeder, a therapist who helped draft Colorado’s sexually violent predator criteria, adding that the rules are too restrictive and exclude many dangerous predators. “We’re not touching the dangerous population, especially in the community.”
[b]The molester next door[/b]
In a Westminster neighborhood, where a man who admitted to molesting 10 boys since 1988 lives in a house with his parents, many neighbors had no idea that a serial molester lived nearby.
Bret Scott Ibsen, 47, admitted to molesting boys ages 10 to 12 while coaching a youth football team. He would take them to Elitch Gardens, Water World, bowling alleys and malls to gain the boys’ trust. He then would molest them during sleep overs at his home.
Ibsen was sentenced to lifetime probation in 2002 after his second sexual-assault conviction since Colorado’s predator law was passed. He paid fines but was not incarcerated.
Ibsen meets the initial criteria to be labeled a predator. But Ib sen never was evaluated, said Mike Garcia, chief probation officer for Adams County.
“It’s not the way it should have went, for sure,” Garcia said. “The judge didn’t order a pre- sentence report, so the SVP didn’t get triggered.”
Neighbors of Ibsen said they were surprised to learn he lived so close.
“I would definitely like to know about him,” said Rose Downing, who was walking in a nearby park with her 9-year-old son, Phil, on a recent day. “You hear about these things, but I didn’t think it would happen here.”
Audra Bier, who lives a block away from Ibsen and has two young sons, said she felt it was her right to know he was living nearby.
“That knowledge is power,” she said.
Contacted at home, Ibsen refused to answer questions about his past.
[b]The crucial cutoff date[/b]
All sex offenders in Colorado must register with local authorities, but their identities are not made public unless a resident of that city or county requests a list kept with police or the sheriff’s department, a process called passive notification.
Only sex offenders who fail to register, those who have multiple offenses and those who are labeled by the state as predators appear on a publicly available statewide website.
Sexually violent predators, however, require active notification. That means law enforcement agencies are required by state law to notify neighbors of their presence.
When Michael Carroll, a sexual predator from Florida, moved in March to a home in Highlands Ranch, neighbors were notified by Douglas County sheriff’s deputies.
The effect was clear. Neighbors attended community meetings. Deputies patrolled the area. Residents talked to one another about keeping their children safe. The house Carroll moved into is now for sale.
Active community notification – if made retroactive, as other states have done – might help in a situation similar to that of Brent J. Brents, who is accused of raping or assaulting up to 10 women in the Denver area and has confessed to at least 20 more. He is in jail awaiting trial.
The earlier crimes that might have tagged Brents as an SVP pre- date Colorado’s registry law. He was convicted in 1988 of sexually assaulting two children.
Freed after serving 15 years of a 20-year sentence, Brents moved to Aurora, where he is alleged to have fondled the son of his neighbor and girlfriend. Because Brents committed his earlier crimes in the late 1980s, before Colorado’s predator law was passed, the girlfriend and other neighbors were never notified about his record by authorities.
A similar Wyoming law, passed two years after Colorado’s, requires notification for crimes dating to 1985, Cheyenne District Attorney Jon Forwood said. Forwood said Wyoming lawmakers didn’t deem community notification a punishment, as did officials in Colorado.
The neighbor who became Brents’ girlfriend said she didn’t know about Brents’ prior convictions for sexually assaulting children at the time. She said she broke off her relationship with Brents once she learned of his past. By then, it was too late.
[b]Predators by the numbers[/b]
Since 1999, 1,300 convicts have met Colorado’s initial criteria for consideration as sexually violent predators based on their crimes. About half are still in prison.
There are just five men labeled as sexually violent predators living in Colorado communities. The one in Highlands Ranch committed his crimes in Florida. Two others are from Maine. Only two committed their crimes in Colorado.
In addition, 28 men incarcerated in Colorado prisons have been labeled as sexually violent predators. Some of them are serving life sentences and may never get out of prison.
By comparison, other states designate far more people for active notification, or as predators, since they and Colorado began drafting laws after 1997 to comply with federal law.
Florida, with about four times Colorado’s population, has labeled 5,177 felons as sexual predators. Florida’s law labels anyone who has committed or attempted rape, sexually assaulted a child, engaged in child pornography or committed lewd acts with a child or a disabled or elderly person.
In Colorado, offenders must have been convicted of one of five crimes to even be eligible for SVP designation. The crimes are first- or second-degree sexual assault; unlawful sexual contact; sexual assault on a child; or sexual assault on a child by a person in a position of trust.
Those convicted must then undergo an extensive psychological evaluation process that excludes many repeat and violent offenders.
In practice, the difference is clear. If the Florida sexual predator now living in Highlands Ranch had committed his offense in Colorado, he would not be considered a predator because, unlike other states’ laws, Colorado’s law was not made retroactive.
Other states are more restrictive than Colorado. In neighboring Wyoming, there are 289 convicted sex offenders about whom police are required to notify neighbors within a 750-foot radius. Wyoming has just 500,000 people, or one-ninth of Colorado’s population.
Arizona has 4,800 offenders for whom active community notification is required. Nebraska has 858.
There are several reasons why Colorado has not labeled more sex offenders as sexual predators.
Many sex offenders simply were convicted before the law’s 1999 start date in Colorado.
Judges or parole boards also must determine that an offender who meets all the lengthy criteria is a sexually violent predator.
Of the 28 people in prison and the two outside labeled as predators, judges designated them all. The parole board has not designated anyone.
“(DOC) has to do the investigation. If (the evaluations are) not presented to us, we don’t know,” said parole board chairman Allan Stanley. “I am concerned that (DOC) hasn’t presented any of these yet.”
Parents for Megan’s Law, a nonprofit that supports the federal statute named for a 7-year- old New Jersey girl raped and murdered in 1994 by a repeat sex offender, recently issued a national report card on offender programs. Colorado was one of 21 states to receive an F.
[b]A labyrinthine process[/b]
Sexually violent predators are determined by a four-part test. The first part requires a conviction for one of the five specific crimes.
The second part requires an offender to have been a stranger or to have established or promoted a relationship to further the sexual offense.
The first two parts of the test are simple, experts say. The third and fourth parts are where many offenders appear to fall through the system.
To be labeled a sexually violent predator, an offender must meet the first two parts of the test and either the third or the fourth. The third part of the test consists of 10 questions, four of which require a “yes” answer by the offender.
The questions include whether the offender was employed less than full time when arrested; whether the offender failed first or second grade; whether the offender has prior convictions; and whether the offender was sexually aroused during the sexual assault. It also includes an analysis of the offender’s denial, deviancy and motivation.
Veeder said some of these questions are difficult to answer. And they exclude many seemingly violent predators.
The fourth part of the test requires that the offender suffer from specific mental abnormalities that can be diagnosed. These include being psychopathic, narcissistic, antisocial and paranoid.
Morgan, the Department of Corrections spokeswoman, said in the past six years, 16 sex offenders were released who met the initial criteria but were not tested.
Of those, eight are still on parole. The DOC will require them to be tested to see whether they meet the criteria for sexually violent predators.
She acknowledged that DOC officials should have known about their obligation, because the department’s therapists and Morgan herself sat on the panel that wrote the criteria.
Part of the problem is money, officials said.
When the SVP criteria were created, no money was provided for sending therapists qualified to perform the tests to all 20 prisons where sex offenders are held, Morgan said. The state has such experts at just five prisons.
[b]“The wrong solution”[/b]
English, of the Colorado Justice Division, said that had Colorado not been forced into it by a federal mandate, the state never would have passed a law requiring community notification of the whereabouts of predators.
“The feds came down with the law, and we didn’t like it,” English said of Megan’s Law. “It’s the wrong solution to a problem that is very important. It’s hard to identify anything positive about the law.”
Community notification is misleading, English said, because it identifies only a small percentage of sex offenders – those who randomly attack children they don’t know or establish relationships with kids primarily to molest them – and leaves the impression that other sex offenders are not dangerous.
English said Colorado is one of the most progressive states in dealing with sex offenders. The state passed a sex-offender registration statute before it was required by federal law.
In Colorado, sex offenders face lifetime supervision in the community and a phalanx of rules designed to catch them even thinking about molesting kids, she said.
District judges and the Colorado Parole Board are the only ones who can designate someone as a sexually violent predator, said Joe Stommel, chief of the Department of Corrections’ Treatment and Management Program.
But in the six years since the SVP law was passed, the parole board has not requested that the assessments be done, he said.
“I’m not aware of any,” Stommel said. “Why it isn’t being used, I don’t know.”
Harlan Bockman, chief judge at Adams County District Court, said he has seen very few evaluations for sexually violent predators from the state come across his desk.
He acknowledged that there should be more offenders labeled as predators.
“I’m just amazed. I’ve never really analyzed it to see how many were charged and met the qualifications,” Bockman said.
The sexually violent predator designation is crucial, said Tool, the former state representative who sponsored House Bill 1260. Too often, he said, parents and neighbors have no idea that a predator lives nearby.
Tool, now senior director at the Colorado Division of Motor Vehicles, reviewed five cases found by The Post that fit the initial criteria. Tool said all five meet his notion of what a sexually violent predator is.
One man – Edward Tarpey, who was convicted of sexual assault in 2003 and was convicted of homicide in 1982 – lives in Fort Collins, not far from Tool’s home.
“I would want to know about him,” said Tool, who has seven grandchildren.
Tool said he believes having a review board and criteria for evaluating possible predators is necessary. But he believes they should be netting many more predators. The state legislature, he said, should require that the evaluations be done – or it could strengthen the law.
“The statute was pretty clear. It should be pretty easy to evaluate them,” Tool said. “Maybe someone needs to go back and tighten it up.”
[i]Staff writer Kirk Mitchell can be reached at 303-820-1206 or kmitchell@denverpost.com. [/i]
[i]Staff writer Sean Kelly can be reached at 303-820-1858.[/i]

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  whose DNA is in CODIS
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-03-2018, 04:11 PM - Forum: DNA - more technical discussions - Replies (9)



INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana law enforcement is entering a brave new world where police can obtain and test any Hoosier's DNA profile against crime scene evidence, so long as a prosecutor can show the person probably committed a felony.
Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb on Friday signed into law Senate Enrolled Act 322 requiring police to take a cheek swab DNA sample from every person arrested for a felony, starting in 2018.
Currently, only individuals convicted of felonies have their DNA records permanently entered into a state police database.

State Sen. Erin Houchin, R-Salem, the sponsor of the new law, said she expects police will catch more criminals once they have a bigger pool of DNA records to check against blood, fluids and other detritus gathered at crime scenes.
She also refused to rule out someday expanding the DNA collection mandate to include those arrested for misdemeanors or traffic infractions.
"DNA profiling is an accurate, widely used tool that will help law enforcement solve crimes and convict those who are responsible," Houchin said.
The new law provides that an individual's DNA sample only will be added to the state's database after a judge affirms that police had probable cause to arrest the person, which means it's more likely than not the person committed the crime he or she is accused of.
That's a significantly lower standard than the guilt beyond a reasonable doubt required for conviction.



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If prosecutors are unable to convict, the law establishes a process for the person to request his or her DNA be expunged from the state database.
However, the Indiana Code also provides that if the record is not deleted as requested, that oversight does not invalidate any future arrest or conviction based on DNA evidence that shouldn't be in the database.

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  Grand Juror Speaks out 12/17/2016
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-02-2018, 05:24 PM - Forum: Grand Jury Indictments - No Replies

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Juror breaks secrecy laws to reveal he ‘knows who killed JonBenet Ramsey’
A GRAND juror in the JonBenet Ramsey case breaks secrecy laws to reveal he knows who killed her and how he was silenced over her parents.
Candace Sutton
news.com.auDecember 17, 20167:47pm


Grand Juror in JonBenet Ramsay case says he's confident he knows who's guilty





Grand Juror in JonBenet Ramsay case says he's confident he knows who's guilty 0:31
[Image: ceed6864cf113318e434bdac89ac81be]
Juror in JonBenet Ramsay case says he's confident he knows who's guilty of murdering the young pageant queen. Courtesy: ABC USA/20/20
  • December 17th 2016
  • 2 years ago
  • /display/newscorpaustralia.com/Web/NewsNetwork/Entertainment - syndicated/
[Image: player]
[Image: 9ec99504c6459d54a8a2bd192f6167e2]
A juror in the JonBenet murder case has risked prosecution to reveal he believes he knows who killed the six-year-old beauty queen. Picture: Splash NewsSource:Supplied



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A GRAND juror on the JonBenet Ramsey case has broken strict secrecy laws to say he knows who killed the six-year-old beauty queen and reveal how he and fellow jurors were silenced.
Risking prosecution which could lead to imprisonment, the male juror has told US TV show 20/20 the shocking decision the grand jury came to almost two decades ago.
The Colorado Grand Jury convened in 1999, less than two years after JonBenet Ramsey was murdered and her body found in the basement of her multi-millionaire parents’ home in Boulder, Colorado.
[Image: 7e99e798e03a58cf30fc415fdffcdeff]
JonBenet Ramsey.Source:Supplied



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Asked to deliberate on whether JonBenet’s parents, John and Patsy Ramsey should have been indicted over the murder, the juror tells the program the panel of eight women and four men voted yes.
“They were told to indict only if they found probable cause, in other words if they found it was more likely than not that the Ramseys killed their own daughter,” 20/20s Amy Robach says.
“Was there enough evidence to indict John and Patsy Ramsey for a crime?” Robach asks the juror, who responds: “Based upon the evidence that was presented I believe that was correct.”
[Image: b0c84a8e3fde8d6d0ef48987b8a5743a]
Boulder Sheriff's officers guard the Ramsey home on December 27, 1996, the day after 6-year-old JonBenet was found dead in the basement. Picture: AP.Source:Supplied




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[Image: 7bd0491098b4687e2d5d0aaef50dc521]
This male juror (above) told TV’s 20/20 that the grand jury voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey and he knows who killed JonBenet. Picture: 20/20.Source:Supplied



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But asked if the case had gone to trial, did he believe that the Ramseys would be convicted, the juror answered “no”.
“Based on the evidence you were presented do you feel you know who killed JonBenet Ramsey?” Robach asks.
The juror responds: “I highly suspect, I do.”
The revelation comes in a week in which the Colorado Bureau of Investigation announced it would be conducting sophisticated DNA testing on the underwear and long johns JonBenet’s body was clothed in death.


DNA analysis at the time exonerated the Ramsey family, but new evidence has come to light.
And although the grand jury voted to indict JonBenet’s parents 17 years ago, the Colorado prosecutor at the time disagreed and did not to follow through with the jury’s recommendation.
On 20/20 the juror also describes the eerie trip the grand jury made to the crime scene where JonBenet’s body was found, and how he was disgusted by her sexualised beauty pageant image.
[Image: 10f94c1051a5464e03de571a71757528]
Nine-year-old Burke Ramsey declines to draw his sister in a psychology session after JonBenet’s murder. Picture: Dr Phil.Source:Supplied
[Image: b52f95827d6722bc6ed6e902839e5276]
The second page of the rambling ransom note which a handwriting expert says was written by JonBenet’s mother Patsy. Picture: Boulder District Attorney.Source:AP
Robach: “Before you were a grand juror, what did you know about the JonBenet Ramsey case?”
Juror: “Very little. I saw that there was this little girl dressed up in what was my opinion a sexual persona. It disgusted me, I turned off the TV.”
Over the course of a year, the grand jurors grappled with testimony from dozens of witnesses.
The jury took a field trip to the Ramsey home on 15th Street, Boulder, Colorado and descended the basement stairs to see the cellar where the little girl’s body had been found.
“The basement in which she was found, it was a very eerie feeling. Like someone had been killed here,” the juror said.
The 20/20 program disguised the juror’s voice and put his face in shadow to help protect his identity because Grand Jury proceedings in Colorado and elsewhere are secret.
[Image: c44bf20c421ef1212fe97806e31d910d]
The grand jurors voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey, but prosecutors didn’t proceed. Picture: AP/The Denver Post.Source:AP
[Image: 07f80d460d5a53003a45a6ce39a39de0]
Viewers were puzzled by Burke Ramsey’s smiling demeanour throughout a recent interview on DrPhil about his sister’s murder. Picture: Dr Phil.Source:Supplied
The interview with the juror was due to be aired on Friday night in the US, just over a week before the twentieth anniversary of JonBenet Ramsey’s death on Christmas night 1996.
The 20/20 interview includes revelations by a handwriting expert that she is sure the ransom note found at the scene was written by JonBenet’s mother Patsy.
Patsy Ramsey, herself a former beauty queen, was John Bennet Ramsey’s second wife. She died from ovarian cancer in 2006.
On the night JonBenet was murdered and her body placed in the cellar, her parents initially said she had been kidnapped.
They found a strange ransom note which claimed JonBenet has been kidnapped by “a small foreign faction” and demanded an odd ransom sum of $118,000.
The fact that the amount was similar to the sum of John Ramsey’s annual work bonus, and the language and apparently deliberate spelling mistakes in the long and rambling note made investigators believe it was bogus.
[Image: 27b284a8b9c5885106a57b86d4ae3fbf]
The grand jurors spent a year investigating the JonBenet case and were taken back to the Ramsey house to see the ‘eerie’ crime scene.



Burke Ramsey demonstrates how he thinks JonBenet died0:30
[Image: c3bd4b14b482cb717d8cc9554c44c96a]
Footage from 1997 shows how a young Burke Ramsey demonstrated his theory on how his sister was killed. Courtesy: The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey/Channel 9

[Image: player]
Cina Wong, the handwriting expert who examined the ransom note, found more than 200 similarities between the ransom note writer’s handwriting and Patsy’s handwriting.
This week Ms Wong said she still maintains that JonBenet’s mother wrote it.
“You will see that just with the As the ransom note writer has four different variations of the letter A, and then Patsy Ramsey uses the same variation of the four different types of As,” Wong tells 20/20.
The lead up to the anniversary of JonBenet’s murder has been filled with speculation about the potential involvement of JonBenet’s then nine-year-old brother Burke Ramsey.
Burke, now a computer software developer, raised eyebrows with his interview on the Dr Phil show, during which he smiled throughout.
Revelations were also aired about his childhood jealousy of a sister who received all the attention.
Burke Ramsey reportedly placed his own faeces in JonBenet’s bed and on one occasion hit her with a golf stick.
Dr Phil plays Burke a video of an interview between a psychologist and the nine-year-old Burke following the murder in which Burke is asked to draw, but won’t draw his sister.
It is the first time Burke has seen the footage.
Asked by Dr Phil, “Did you consciously not draw JonBenet?”, Burke answers, “I can’t remember what was going through my head, but she was gone so I didn’t draw her”.
The DNA review of JonBenet’s clothing by Colorado investigators will examine unidentified male DNA found on separate items.

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  Grand Juror Speaks out 12/17/2016
Posted by: jameson245 - 09-02-2018, 05:22 PM - Forum: Grand Jury Indictments - Replies (1)

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Juror breaks secrecy laws to reveal he ‘knows who killed JonBenet Ramsey’
A GRAND juror in the JonBenet Ramsey case breaks secrecy laws to reveal he knows who killed her and how he was silenced over her parents.
Candace Sutton
news.com.auDecember 17, 20167:47pm


Grand Juror in JonBenet Ramsay case says he's confident he knows who's guilty





Grand Juror in JonBenet Ramsay case says he's confident he knows who's guilty 0:31
[Image: ceed6864cf113318e434bdac89ac81be]
Juror in JonBenet Ramsay case says he's confident he knows who's guilty of murdering the young pageant queen. Courtesy: ABC USA/20/20
  • December 17th 2016
  • 2 years ago
  • /display/newscorpaustralia.com/Web/NewsNetwork/Entertainment - syndicated/
[Image: player]
[Image: 9ec99504c6459d54a8a2bd192f6167e2]
A juror in the JonBenet murder case has risked prosecution to reveal he believes he knows who killed the six-year-old beauty queen. Picture: Splash NewsSource:Supplied



Ads by Kiosked

A GRAND juror on the JonBenet Ramsey case has broken strict secrecy laws to say he knows who killed the six-year-old beauty queen and reveal how he and fellow jurors were silenced.
Risking prosecution which could lead to imprisonment, the male juror has told US TV show 20/20 the shocking decision the grand jury came to almost two decades ago.
The Colorado Grand Jury convened in 1999, less than two years after JonBenet Ramsey was murdered and her body found in the basement of her multi-millionaire parents’ home in Boulder, Colorado.
[Image: 7e99e798e03a58cf30fc415fdffcdeff]
JonBenet Ramsey.Source:Supplied



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Asked to deliberate on whether JonBenet’s parents, John and Patsy Ramsey should have been indicted over the murder, the juror tells the program the panel of eight women and four men voted yes.
“They were told to indict only if they found probable cause, in other words if they found it was more likely than not that the Ramseys killed their own daughter,” 20/20s Amy Robach says.
“Was there enough evidence to indict John and Patsy Ramsey for a crime?” Robach asks the juror, who responds: “Based upon the evidence that was presented I believe that was correct.”
[Image: b0c84a8e3fde8d6d0ef48987b8a5743a]
Boulder Sheriff's officers guard the Ramsey home on December 27, 1996, the day after 6-year-old JonBenet was found dead in the basement. Picture: AP.Source:Supplied




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[Image: 7bd0491098b4687e2d5d0aaef50dc521]
This male juror (above) told TV’s 20/20 that the grand jury voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey and he knows who killed JonBenet. Picture: 20/20.Source:Supplied



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But asked if the case had gone to trial, did he believe that the Ramseys would be convicted, the juror answered “no”.
“Based on the evidence you were presented do you feel you know who killed JonBenet Ramsey?” Robach asks.
The juror responds: “I highly suspect, I do.”
The revelation comes in a week in which the Colorado Bureau of Investigation announced it would be conducting sophisticated DNA testing on the underwear and long johns JonBenet’s body was clothed in death.


DNA analysis at the time exonerated the Ramsey family, but new evidence has come to light.
And although the grand jury voted to indict JonBenet’s parents 17 years ago, the Colorado prosecutor at the time disagreed and did not to follow through with the jury’s recommendation.
On 20/20 the juror also describes the eerie trip the grand jury made to the crime scene where JonBenet’s body was found, and how he was disgusted by her sexualised beauty pageant image.
[Image: 10f94c1051a5464e03de571a71757528]
Nine-year-old Burke Ramsey declines to draw his sister in a psychology session after JonBenet’s murder. Picture: Dr Phil.Source:Supplied
[Image: b52f95827d6722bc6ed6e902839e5276]
The second page of the rambling ransom note which a handwriting expert says was written by JonBenet’s mother Patsy. Picture: Boulder District Attorney.Source:AP
Robach: “Before you were a grand juror, what did you know about the JonBenet Ramsey case?”
Juror: “Very little. I saw that there was this little girl dressed up in what was my opinion a sexual persona. It disgusted me, I turned off the TV.”
Over the course of a year, the grand jurors grappled with testimony from dozens of witnesses.
The jury took a field trip to the Ramsey home on 15th Street, Boulder, Colorado and descended the basement stairs to see the cellar where the little girl’s body had been found.
“The basement in which she was found, it was a very eerie feeling. Like someone had been killed here,” the juror said.
The 20/20 program disguised the juror’s voice and put his face in shadow to help protect his identity because Grand Jury proceedings in Colorado and elsewhere are secret.
[Image: c44bf20c421ef1212fe97806e31d910d]
The grand jurors voted to indict John and Patsy Ramsey, but prosecutors didn’t proceed. Picture: AP/The Denver Post.Source:AP
[Image: 07f80d460d5a53003a45a6ce39a39de0]
Viewers were puzzled by Burke Ramsey’s smiling demeanour throughout a recent interview on DrPhil about his sister’s murder. Picture: Dr Phil.Source:Supplied
The interview with the juror was due to be aired on Friday night in the US, just over a week before the twentieth anniversary of JonBenet Ramsey’s death on Christmas night 1996.
The 20/20 interview includes revelations by a handwriting expert that she is sure the ransom note found at the scene was written by JonBenet’s mother Patsy.
Patsy Ramsey, herself a former beauty queen, was John Bennet Ramsey’s second wife. She died from ovarian cancer in 2006.
On the night JonBenet was murdered and her body placed in the cellar, her parents initially said she had been kidnapped.
They found a strange ransom note which claimed JonBenet has been kidnapped by “a small foreign faction” and demanded an odd ransom sum of $118,000.
The fact that the amount was similar to the sum of John Ramsey’s annual work bonus, and the language and apparently deliberate spelling mistakes in the long and rambling note made investigators believe it was bogus.
[Image: 27b284a8b9c5885106a57b86d4ae3fbf]
The grand jurors spent a year investigating the JonBenet case and were taken back to the Ramsey house to see the ‘eerie’ crime sceneSource:Supplied


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Burke Ramsey demonstrates how he thinks JonBenet died0:30
[Image: c3bd4b14b482cb717d8cc9554c44c96a]
Footage from 1997 shows how a young Burke Ramsey demonstrated his theory on how his sister was killed. Courtesy: The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey/Channel 9
  • September 20th 2016
  • 2 years ago
  • /display/newscorpaustralia.com/Web/NewsNetwork/Network News/National/
[Image: player]
Cina Wong, the handwriting expert who examined the ransom note, found more than 200 similarities between the ransom note writer’s handwriting and Patsy’s handwriting.
This week Ms Wong said she still maintains that JonBenet’s mother wrote it.
“You will see that just with the As the ransom note writer has four different variations of the letter A, and then Patsy Ramsey uses the same variation of the four different types of As,” Wong tells 20/20.
The lead up to the anniversary of JonBenet’s murder has been filled with speculation about the potential involvement of JonBenet’s then nine-year-old brother Burke Ramsey.
Burke, now a computer software developer, raised eyebrows with his interview on the Dr Phil show, during which he smiled throughout.
Revelations were also aired about his childhood jealousy of a sister who received all the attention.
Burke Ramsey reportedly placed his own faeces in JonBenet’s bed and on one occasion hit her with a golf stick.
Dr Phil plays Burke a video of an interview between a psychologist and the nine-year-old Burke following the murder in which Burke is asked to draw, but won’t draw his sister.
It is the first time Burke has seen the footage.
Asked by Dr Phil, “Did you consciously not draw JonBenet?”, Burke answers, “I can’t remember what was going through my head, but she was gone so I didn’t draw her”.
The DNA review of JonBenet’s clothing by Colorado investigators will examine unidentified male DNA found on separate items.

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  Chronicle of Cooperation
Posted by: jameson245 - 08-29-2018, 07:33 PM - Forum: Ramsey cooperation - Replies (4)

Chronicle of cooperation

News staff






[b]March 19[/b]
[b]'The police are not interested in justice'[/b]
[b]Police see Ramsey 'smoke screen'[/b]
[b]Chronicle of cooperation[/b]
[b]Allegations & responses[/b]
[b]Investigator Smit says evidence points to intruder as murderer[/b]
[b]Intruder theory[/b]
[b]Excerpts from 'The Death of Innocence'[/b]
[b]Interviewer says he wants to move on[/b]




An appendix to the Ramseys' book is titled A Chronicle of Cooperation, detailing occasions the couple say they cooperated with law enforcement authorities in the investigation.
Boulder police were frustrated during the investigation by what they said was the Ramseys' reluctance to help.
Here is a summary of the Ramseys' A Chronicle of Cooperation:

[*]Boulder police officers interviewed them throughout Dec. 26, 1996, the day JonBenet's body was found.

[*]Police questioned them both Dec. 27 and John again Dec. 28. Officers were with the Ramseys 24 hours a day from 6 a.m. Dec. 26 through 2 p.m. Dec. 29, when the Ramseys left for the funeral in Atlanta.

[*]Police questioned Burke Ramsey on Dec. 26. The conversation was tape-recorded without either parent present and without parental consent. A police psychologist interviewed Burke on Jan. 6. Burke was interviewed again, over three days, in May 1998.

[*]Handwriting samples were given by John (Dec. 26, 28, Jan. 5, 1997); Patsy (Dec. 28, Jan. 4, 1997, Feb. 28, April 12, May 20), and Burke (Dec. 28).

[*]After the Ramseys returned from JonBenet's funeral in Atlanta, their attorneys offered to make them available for a joint interview Jan. 18, 1997. "The police declined this offer and stated in writing that such an interview would not 'be helpful' because 'the time for interviewing John and Patsy as witnesses who could provide critical information that would be helpful in the initial stages of our investigation has passed."'

[*]"The police countered with an offer that the Ramseys come to the police station at 6 p.m. on a Friday night and subject themselves to an open-ended interrogation. That suggestion was rejected, in part because of the written statement above."

[*]"Patsy and John gave hair and blood samples, as well as fingerprints, immediately when the police requested them; so did all other members of the family. In February 1997 both Patsy and John voluntarily gave pubic hair samples."

[*]"Very early in the investigation, the Ramseys offered to let the police search both of their houses, John's office, their cars and his airplane hangar without a search warrant."

[*]"On April 11, 1997, John and Patsy Ramsey, with their attorneys, met with Peter Hofstrom of the DA's office and Tom Wickman of the Boulder Police Department. This meeting was held at Mr. Hofstrom's and Detective Wickman's request. An apology was given for the way the family had been treated. The Ramseys were asked to give additional interviews and continue their previous cooperation. John accepted their apology and agreed to move forward. No conditions were placed on the manner in which the interviews would be conducted."

[*]"On April 12, 1997, the Ramseys also agreed to let authorities search their house again without a warrant; agreed to destructive testing of walls located at their home; agreed to identify Patsy Ramsey's prior writings; and agreed to make themselves available for separate interviews on April 23. The Ramseys agreed to answer any questions put to them. On April 22, the Boulder police canceled the interviews."

[*]"The Ramseys agreed to be interrogated by the Boulder police and district attorney's office on April 30, 1997. These interviews lasted two hours (for John) and six hours (for Patsy)."

[*]"The Ramseys also were interrogated by the district attorney's office for three full days each in June 1998. No additional interviews were requested."

[*]"The Ramseys signed more than 100 releases for information requested by the police, ranging from medical records to credit card records and even videotape rental records. The Ramseys provided all evidence and information requested by the police."

[*]"Burke Ramsey, John Andrew Ramsey and Melinda Ramsey Long all were subpoenaed and testified before the grand jury."

[*]"John and Patsy offered to testify before the grand jury, but they were never subpoenaed. The Ramseys asked to meet with the governor and his advisory council. The request went unanswered."


March 19, 2000

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  history of false claims
Posted by: jameson245 - 08-29-2018, 06:32 PM - Forum: Nancy Krebs - No Replies

Calif. woman's credibility questioned in JonBenet Ramsey case

Feb. 27, 2000 | 1:10 p.m.

 
BOULDER, Colo. (AP) -- A woman who claims to see similarities between her own sexual abuse as a child and the case of JonBenet Ramsey has a history of making false reports, California officials said in Sunday's Daily Camera.

The Boulder newspaper reported last week that the California woman suggested the 6-year-old beauty queen was killed accidentally when an asphyxiation technique was used by an adult to stimulate orgasmic response.

Sheriff's investigators in California spent hundreds of hours looking into the woman's claim in 1991 that she had been raped. They were unable to confirm her claim, the paper said.

``She has filed a number of reports with us and most of them have been determined to be unfounded,'' said San Louis Obispo County sheriff's Sgt. C.J. Bell.

The 37-year-old woman has drawn parallels between her experiences and the physical evidence of garroting found on JonBenet's body, the newspaper stated.

Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter initially described the information as new evidence that needed to be thoroughly investigated. No one answered the telephone at his office Sunday.

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her family's home on Dec. 26, 1996. The coroner also found signs of injuries in her genital area.

A grand jury investigated the case for 13 months, but no charges were filed. Police have said JonBenet's parents remain suspects. The Ramseys, who have moved to the Atlanta area, deny any involvement in her death.

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  Governor Owens
Posted by: jameson245 - 08-29-2018, 06:25 PM - Forum: Names to remember - Replies (1)

Strong Words For The Ramseys

[*]Gov. Bill Owens Urges Ramseys To Cooperate
[*]Says Special Prosecutor Will Not Be Appointed
[*]Headed In Right Direction With New Evidence


DENVER



CBS

(CBS) Colorado Gov. Bill Owens urged the parents of JonBenet Ramsey to "quit hiding behind their attorneys" and help find their daughter's killers.

Owens' comments came Wednesday as he announced his decision not to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the 1996 death of the six-year-old beauty pageant winner.

He said after initial mistakes, police and prosecutors are working with new evidence and headed in the right direction.

"During my own review of the Ramsey case," Owens said, "I've learned that substantial new evidence -- including evidence that did not originate in the grand jury proceedings -- is presently being analyzed and will continue to be analyzed by the prosecution team."

The governor, though, had strong words for the girl's parents.

"If I could speak to John and Patsy Ramsey," Owens said, "I would tell them to quit hiding behind their attorneys, quit hiding behind their PR firm. Come back to Colorado and work with investigators in this case, no matter where that trail will lead."

Early on Dec. 26, 1996, Mrs. Ramsey told police she found a ransom note demanding $118,000 for her daughter's safe return. Eight hours later, JonBenet's father said he found his daughter's body in the basement.

Critics contend the investigation was compromised when detectives allowed the Ramseys and friends to roam through their mansion in Boulder.

Owens said the guilty parties have been smart, stonewalling police and covering their tracks.

The Ramseys, who moved to the Atlanta area after the killing, have insisted they are innocent. In a statement issued late Wednesday, the Ramseys' attorneys called Owens' remarks "slanderous."

"Coming from a public official elected to the highest office of this state, his comments are unconscionable," the statement said.

"To the killers, let me say this: You only think you have gotten away with murder. There is strong evidence to suggest who you are," Owens said. "I think investigators are moving closer to proving their case. They will keep pursuing you. You will reap what you have sown."

Owens declined to comment when asked if he was referring to the Ramseys when he cited more than one killer. He wouldn't say if he believed the Ramseys were involved in their daughter's death.

Two weeks ago, a Boulder County grand jury completed a 13-month investigation of the death without issuing any indictments. District Attorney Alex Hunter said there was not enough evidence to charge anyone, though he and police said the Ramseys remain under suspicion.

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  old thread on other crimes
Posted by: jameson245 - 08-29-2018, 02:44 PM - Forum: OTHER children taken from their beds - No Replies

"Similar Crimes?"
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"Similar Crimes?"
Posted by theneedle on Oct-17-99 at 02:02 PM (EST)

Quote:After reading recent newspaper articles on famous unsolved crimes(everyone's local paper seemed to have their own version ,next to their feature "Ramseys Off Hook" type article....God,they are so uncreative), I thought perhaps we could post articles about cases which actually DO resemble the JonBenet murder.I know there is "Boulder area crimes" in our true crime area , but this seems to be a busier area, and I thought perhaps we could discuss more specifically similar crimes.
Check out the Monica DaSilva case.Reno, Nevada,1990.6 yrs old.Abducted from bedroom.Only clue left was pried doorjamb.Parents under suspicion, finally cleared and won lawsuit against media for calling them killers.Child's skeleton found a few months later in desert.Nothing definitive obtained from the site or remains.This case happened only a year after a brother and sister, Chia by name,6&8, vanished after getting off a school bus in Lake Tahoe area.Their skeletons were also found months later.
These are similar cases to Ramsey not only because of the victims ages, but the fact they both happened out West in Rocky Mountain towns.It is not inconceivable that Sick Puppy relocated to Boulder 6 yrs later and became bolder.
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/reno/932973792.html
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/reno/939962481.html

 
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1 . "another"
Posted by Brimm on Oct-17-99 at 02:47 PM (EST)
Quote:http://www.bouldernews.com/extra/ramsey/...5akid.html

Here is another one. This one in Georgia 1991.

Brimm

 
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2 . "40 unsolved abductions"
Posted by Bluefire on Oct-17-99 at 03:42 PM (EST)
Quote:I have a database with about 40 unsolved non-family abductions of JonBenét aged children listed over the past ten years. I have no idea at all of how many unsolved child homicides there are, nor for that matter how many solved child homicides.
It is very difficult to find any information about these cases beyond the posters on missing children sites. Strangely, a number of abductions clustered around the Rocky Mountain states over a short period of time in the eighties and then, apparently stopped. The girls were mostly 8-12 yrs. old.
The perps, for the cases I've seen solved for JonBenét's age group are mostly acquaintances, neighbors, strangers and step parents.
NCNMEC has a new study of child homicides available free from their site.

 
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3 . "thanks"
Posted by theneedle on Oct-17-99 at 04:34 PM (EST)
Quote:Blue and Brimm.I thought maybe we can stick to cases where a body was actually found.That way we can find out what forensic evidence exists, and if it can be checked against Ramsey.I certainly hope that unsolved child homicide DNA evidence is being saved in a data base somewhere.I do feel as if thats our only hope sometimes.

 
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4 . "needle"
Posted by river on Oct-18-99 at 09:22 AM (EST)
Quote:You're right. There are plenty of other similar crimes. Happens all the time. Why did this case get so much publicity? Rich family, little girl in beauty pageants. Parents appeared on TV. (Big mistake.) Reminded people to much of Susan Smith, and they made an immediate connection. click-click I wonder if the police would have solved the case if the media had kept their nose out of it.

 
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5 . "Jeanna North - Her Killer Escapes"
Posted by Bluefire on Oct-19-99 at 08:02 AM (EST)
Quote:[Image: 0058-usa.jpg]

Jeanna North
Kyle Bell was a neighbor of the Norths when Jeanna disappeared while in-line skating near her home on the night of June 28, 1993. On September 15, 1998. a scumbag named Kyle Bell was charged with murdering her, and convicted of her death. This piece of garbage confessed that he had raped Jeanna and murdered her when she told him that she would tell her parents. He dumped her body in the Sheyenne River near Fargo, North Dakota.
Last week Kyle Bell escaped from a prisoner transport and is apparently free in Texas or Mexico. He has previously lived in Denver. He may have been in jail Christmas, 1996, it is unclear because at one point of time he jumped bail on the molestation charges and ended up in Denver.
Northscape has a number of stories concerning the escape iof this child killer:
http://www.northscape.com/news/sunday.htm
Here is part of the story of this monster from northscape:
Sheriff Mark Milbrandt had dealings with Bell too, "starting in 1983," when Bell was 15 or 16.
"He was convicted of a sex crime here, with a young girl, I believe, and served time in the South Dakota Penitentiary," said Milbrandt, sheriff of Brown County, seated in Aberdeen.
Bell was involved in many offenses, from minor traffic ones, to burglary, assault and the sex crime, Milbrandt said.
His pedophilia, or sexual attraction to young girls, apparently stems back to his youth, too.
Bell grew up in the Bath, S.D., area, north of Aberdeen, near Frederick. His father was physically disabled, confined to a wheelchair. Bell lived mostly with his grandparents in the Bath area.
Connie Groop remembers Bell from his days at high school in Frederick, S.D., just north of Frederick; S.D. Bell, while a junior or senior in the high school, molested a girl in first or second grade on a school bus, said Groop, associate news editor at the Aberdeen American News. "It was a girl in my daughter's class," Groop said Saturday. "That's why I remember it."
The incident, which happened in the mid-1980s, was not brought to law enforcement's attention, but everyone in the community was made aware of it, Groop said.
Bell often was picked on by other youths, too, as well as making trouble himself, Groop said. Bell's parents "had trouble of some kind," Groop said, "and they didn't have and didn't do a lot of things a lot of families do together."
People who knew Bell said he had a charming side, but also a volatile temper that erupted in violence.
By the early 1990s, Bell had fathered children by three different women and owed child support to them, said Harvey Oliver, state's attorney for Brown County, seated in Aberdeen, S.D. When Bell inherited $15,000 from relatives, the state of South Dakota took the money to give to the children, Oliver said. That transaction happened while Bell was in jail in North Dakota in 1993, facing trial for sex crimes.
Bell was convicted in 1994 for molesting two girls, ages 8 and 3, in incidents in which he coaxed them to pose unclothed for suggestive photographs. He was sentenced to 30 years for that and during that trial confessed to killing Jeanna North in Fargo, police say. Milbrandt wasn't suprised when Bell first was suspected in North's death.
Nothing about Bell's escape last week surprises Milbrandt, either. "He was an uncontrollable prisoner. He fought everytime, not physically, but mentally. He wouldn't adhere to anything," Milbrandt said. "You have these special inmates you need to watch, and he was one of them."
Milbrandt has been tipped by law enforcement officials searching for Bell to keep an eye out for him, he might be headed back to Brown County. Bell has an ex-wife in Aberdeen, and likely children, as well as other family members.
"Law enforcement needs to be very careful if they do come in contact with him," Milbrandt said. "He's a dangerous person. He's going to serve life in prison, he's got nothing to lose. That's what scares me."
In my opinion this is the kind of slime ball who murdered JonBenét.

 
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6 . "Not controlled enough"
Posted by mousey on Oct-19-99 at 08:15 AM (EST)
Quote:Same "interests" though.

 
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7 . "Kyle Bell's Denver Trip"
Posted by Bluefire on Oct-19-99 at 09:19 AM (EST)
Quote:You are right Mousey, this slime was in jail in SD at the time anyway.
Nevertheless you can see how easy it is for this sort of monster to move around, set up camp with some woman,.... its a fairly clear picture of the type we are looking for. I suggest that any semi-transients who lived in cheap housing near the Ramseys be investigated. I have always believed that the person who killed JonBenét used a young woman as cover, or as a conspirator. This young woman should perhaps be offered immunity or a light sentence for coming forward at this time?
Bell in Denver
"According to Pederson, Bell is a friendly likable man who showed investigators that he had a temper, but did not appear dangerous."
"Pederson said Bell is smart and could be quick to build a new life somewhere far from North Dakota. He said Bell jumped bail several years ago while he was awaiting trial on the child molestation charges unrelated to the North murder. They found Bell in Denver a few months later, already living with a girlfriend who had a baby of her own.
Pederson said the woman returned with Bell while he stood trial, but returned to her home in Colorado afterward, and likely won't want to have anything to do with Bell."

 
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8 . "Bluefire"
Posted by Misty on Oct-19-99 at 09:29 AM (EST)
Quote:LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-99 AT 09:34 AM (EST)
In your data base, is there a common factor that the children were killed away from the house? In child abductions (pedophiles), the child is usually killed away from the house and the body is found (I think I have this right), on average, within 200 yards of the murder site.

 
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9 . "Neighborhood Perverts"
Posted by Bluefire on Oct-19-99 at 10:14 AM (EST)
Quote:The problem with my data base is that it only includes missing children, or those missing children who have been found or the perp caught, tried and convicted. These are abducted children so by definition they would be further away than 50 feet from the point of abduction. I believe that JonBenét would legally be considered an abducted child under traditional legal definitions if it were proven that she was removed from her bed to the basement by lure or by force, because it is more than 50 feet. Jonbenét was, in the traditional legal definbition, abducted.
But yes, most murdered abducted children are found within a 1/4 mile of their home. Many, for example, are taken to the neighbor's house (where the perp lives, usually semi-transient) which may be accross the street, or to a vacant lot near the house, or to the basement of an apartment, or an abandoned building. Then, unfortunately, there are perps with cars who lure, or grab a child off the street. Often the victim's body is never found in this case. So my data (vanished children) would be biased towards longer distances.
Now I think this brings up an interesting point:
JonBenét was removed from her bed and either lured or carried to the basement which was two floors down in a house the size of a small apartment building. The crime was committed in the basement. It is technically an abduction because the child was mover more than 50 feet to the site where she was assaulted and murdered. Noone has ever reported seeing a suspicious automobile. So I think it might be indicitive of an abduction by someone who lived close by who had no family except a girlfriend (perhaps accompolice)and no automobile.
The question is, what happened at the crime scene to cause the perpetrator to abandon the simple plan of stun gun the child and carry out to his rented space?? the party? the church service? perhaps it began to snow? or JonBenét resisted? Or the female accompolice got paranoid? the scream? something psychological? Some factor we've never considered?
A semi-transient neighbor hiding behind a girlfriend/accompolice (why are these women attracted to such monsters?) could have come from anywhere in the US (or abroad). He could have watched JonBenét and Burke play in the driveway or on the sidewalk, watched the family come and go and know their schedule, that they were rich. it would be easy to reconnitor the house, to break in when he/she they knew the house would be empty, to borrow the pad for an hour and return it. They would know that the Ramseys were lax in keeping the doors locked, might even be aware of where the key was hidden (most people hide their keys in such obvious places... they might as well leave the doors wide open IMO it would be safer). They would have had an opportunity to talk with JonBenét and Burke in what would have seemed an innocent exchange, "Whats your name little girl? Sure is a nice bike.... you know Santa is going to pay you a secret visit... " But how do you spell JonBenét?? Zjohnbenhey? The neighbor didn't know.
This theme of neighbor perverts killing children runs through so very many of these cases, I think, after hearing Maikai's report on the neighborhood, that this particular line of investigation needs to be followed through carefully. I would particularly look at anyone semi-transient whose girlfriend was the alibi.

 
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10 . "Another Mid-Night Burgler?"
Posted by mousey on Oct-19-99 at 11:10 AM (EST)
Quote:LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-99 AT 11:11 AM (EST)
Early morning stabbing reported in Boulder
Boulder Police are investigating a stabbing reported at 3:10 a.m. today at 1444 Folsom St.
The unknown suspect entered the victim's apartment through an unlocked door on a second story balcony. After the attack, the suspect fled in an unknown direction.
The 22-year-old victim is recovering at Boulder Community Hospital. She is reported to be in stable condition.
This is the second incident of a similar nature reported at this apartment complex since August. No suspect has been identified in either incident.
Police are urging residents to lock all doors and windows, and to report any suspicious activity in the area.
Although there is no known connection to other cases in Boulder, detectives will investigate whether today's attack may be related to other, similar incidents.
Anyone with information about the attack is asked to call Boulder Police Detectives at 303-441-3330.

 
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11 . "Rape-murder"
Posted by RHGC on Oct-19-99 at 11:15 AM (EST)
Quote:We had a somewhat similar case in Stamford 1n 1979, though the girl was 15. The rapist killed her when she said she would tell about the incident. I was serving in the state senate at the time and got passage of a bill making rape-murder a capital offense. Otherwise, the penalty for rape was not significantly different from murder and it encouraged the perp to kill the victim.

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  note - not handwriting
Posted by: jameson245 - 08-29-2018, 01:52 PM - Forum: Handwriting - Replies (2)

"pads of paper"
Posted by jams on Dec-24-99 at 00:04 AM (EST)

Quote:Seems that there were pads removed from the Ramsey house - at least two.
One was taken from the house at some point by Linda Hoffman Pugh - she gave it to investigators after the murder.
Another was taken from the house on the night of the party on December 23rd, 1996 - by none other than Fleet White.
Fleet was using a notepad to take notes while he was on the telephone. He took the pad with him when he left to go to Denver International Airport that evening, since all of his notes were on the pad.
Now, I don't happen to think either Fleet or Linda killed JonBenét Ramsey - but I want to let people know there WERE pads floating around.
Could someone have taken a pad from the house and returned it? Apparently the answer to that is "Yes."

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  guests at Christmas party 12/23/1996
Posted by: jameson245 - 08-28-2018, 11:12 PM - Forum: odds and ends - Replies (4)

 
 
      People at the Ramsey's Christmas party Dec. 23, 1996, 5pm-8pm
 
      * John and Patsy Ramsey, Burke, JonBenét
      * Don Paugh
 
      * Fleet and Priscilla White, daughter (5-6), son (7-8)
      * Mr. & Mrs. R.A. Brown (Priscilla's parents)
      * Cliff Gaston, boyfriend of Priscilla's sister, Allison Shoeny (attended alone, without his
      girlfriend) Said to be from California
      * Bill Cox, husband of Priscilla's niece Heather. (attended alone, without his wife) Said
      to be from California
 
      * John and Barbara Fernie, son (10), daughter (14-15?)
      * Friend of the Fernies - male (about 9)
 
      * Glen and Susan Stine, son (9)
      * Susan's mother
      * Glen's mother
 
      * Larry and Pinkie Barber, daughter (10?), son (6?)
 
      * Joe and Betty Barnhill
      * Their tenant Glenn Meyer said he was there
 
      * Linda Hoffman-Pugh, Ariana (12)
 
      * Bill and Janet McReynolds

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