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  Downward Spirals of Silence
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 11:48 AM - Forum: BORG theories and BORG people of note - No Replies

This is a post put on another of my forums by a poster named Machlin.  Wish there were more posters like hir around.  (Hir is a non-gender pronoun, not an error in spelling)

The post:

There is something on Wikipedia labeled as "The Downwards Spiral of Silence" where people will doubt their own opinions if everyone else is silent on one side of an issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silen...

For instance, if you lived in Nazi Germany, and if every last one of a thousand of your friends villifies against Jews, you will decide that you must be crazy to contradict them, and you will finally rail against Jews as well. And your best friend who privately thinks that Jews cannot be all that bad will finally throw in the towel and concede that Jews are bad because she knows that you are wise and that you cannot be wrong. The silence all starts from fear, and people only hear one side of the story and never hear the other side of the issure to gain a more balanced viewpoint, and the downwards spiral of prejudice gets worse.
I remember during the McMartin trials (I lived in that town) no one dared express the opinion that the kids were being bullied and brainwashed into making false accusations. In that silence, that vacuum of information, the public opinion appeared to be unanimous of the McMartin's guilt, which made the silent ones all think that they were alone in their opinions, and thus made them tend to join the majority.

The term "Spiral of Silence" explains this, but there needs to be a term coined for the "Spiral of Injustice" which is related. When ambitious authorities, experts and technicians are under the impression that ALL the other authorities are 100% SURE of a person's guilt, and therefore doubt their own eyes and jump on the bandwagon to validate a consensus opinion or theory.(the nail that sticks up the most gets hammered down). And then this spiral goes around and around like and re-enforces itself.

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  Other crimes showing psychopaths' abilities and personalities
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-12-2017, 11:18 AM - Forum: THE KILLER - Replies (8)

The point of this thread is to point out other crimes where the killer or killers were brutal, daring.... well, psychopaths.

The question is as follows: "What kind of person kidnapped, tortured, sexually assaulted and murdered JonBenet Ramsey.

Was it your typical loving, protective parent? No. It was someone who had to be in control and enjoyed hurting someone else. Someone who didn't accidentally hurt someone in an instant but someone who considered the crime beforehand, who gathered tools of his trade and looked forward to the violent act. Someone who took his time hurting this child before ending her life.

There have been other killers like him -- and this is a thread for them.

Jessica Lunsford was 9 years old, lived with her father and grandparents in a trailer. You wouldn't think anyone would be daring enough to go into a trailer with 3 adults in it to kidnap a child capable of fighting back. But that is just what John Couey did.

He had a history of child molestation, was not supposed to be in that trailer park had failed to keep up with local authorities --- and had relatives willing to lie for him.

Consider how many chances this man took.

He snuck into the trailer where he knew there were three other adults -- took a nine year old from her bed at 3 am, told her to be quiet and follow him. She did.

He then brought her into a trailer he was sharing with his relatives. He raped her, had her spend time in his bed until he shut her in a closet - again with orders to keep quiet --- and she complied!

He kept her alive for at least three days - fed her, raped her repeatedly, went to work, returned home and raped heer again -- all while search teams were looking for Jessica in the neighborhood.

Finally he decided to kill her and buried her alive with her favorite stuffed dolphin. Not miles away but close to the trailers they called home.

What kind of person DOES that?

A psychopath. A man on a mission who was going to let nothing get in his way.

(Couey died in September of 2009 of natural causes.)

This is the kind of person we are looking for in the Ramsey case - someone who saws JonBenet, made a plan and followed through on it. It may not have gone as planned - in fact, I am sure it did not. But that doesn't change the profile of the person who would do this.

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  2 books
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-09-2017, 11:01 AM - Forum: Dr. Henry Lee - Replies (2)

  1. Two books citing Henry Lee as author - Henry C. Lee and Jerry Labriola. Famous Crimes Revisited: From Sacco-Vanzetti to OJ Simpson.   2001
 - reported by Internet readers as being neutral, not pointing to anyone as the killer.

BUT - just a few years later, there is another book, another chapter and this one is listed online as being BORG - the parents were involved.

Cracking More Cases: The Forensic Science of Solving Crimes   2004

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  interesting film showing strength and resiliency of webs
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-07-2017, 01:53 PM - Forum: Broken window/ Spider web - Replies (2)



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  "Nancy" as ransom note writer
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-06-2017, 04:38 PM - Forum: odds and ends - No Replies

Nancy "The Ransom Note Writer"
aka “No7ThirdPlace” and “I KNOW”
January 27, 2002


01. Susan Bennett (aka Jameson) gave her the name of "Nancy."
02. Nancy contacted Susan Bennett around October 2, 2001
03. On Webbsleuths Forum, she used screen names of “No7ThirdPlace” and “I KNOW”
04. Nancy began posting at Webbsleuths on January 27, 2002 under "No7ThirdPlace"
05. Nancy says she "penned" the ransom note but didn't know it was for the Ramsey murder
06. Nancy said she calls the "author" of ransom note "Sick Brain."
07. Nancy provided to Susan Bennett a sample of her handwriting
08. Nancy provided to Susan Bennett video tapes of "Sick Brain"
09. Nancy traveled to North Carolina twice to meet with Susan Bennett
10. Nancy said she contacted her local police and FBI with no success
11. Nancy said she discovered "her" penned ransom note in Ramsey book, DOI
12. To Nancy only, S.B.T.C. stands for "So Be The Cause"
13. She said the end of note was originally "S.B.T.C. to Victory."
14. She said "author" of the note wanted end to be "Victory S.B.T.C."
15. She said the ransom note was part of "sick brain's" book titled "The Perfect Murder"
16. Nancy believes they smuggled the pad and pen INTO the house
17. Nancy says she's from Walker County, Alabama

18. On Webbsleuths Q&A (2002) she penned ransom note 1-1/2 yrs prior murder
19. On Webbsleuths Q&A (2002) she said she has never been to Colorado
20. On Webbsleuths Q&A (2002) she said she is 4 hours from Atlanta
21. On Webbsleuths Q&A (2002) she doesn't know who murdered JonBenet
22. On Webbsleuths Q&A (2002) she doesn't know the Ramsey family
23. On Webbsleuths Q&A (2002) she doesn't know if sick brain is a satanic fanatic
24. She said sick brain had a solid black bedroom with white flower border
25. Nancy said she "penned" the ransom note for the murder "book" several times
26. She tried to get sick brain to change attache' to briefcase.
27. She tried to get sick brain to change $118,000.00 to $1,000,000.00
28. She did not use an accent mark on the word attache' in the note she "penned"
29. Nancy said Tom Wickman of BPD called her a "smart ass."
30. Nancy said Tom Wickman of BPD told her she was a "butthole"
31. Nancy gave her friend Barbara as reference to the Boulder police
32. Barbara told Susan Bennett BPD asked just how insane Nancy was
33. Jameson made a composite of Nancy's video tapes, "what she felt was important" sent to BPD

34. The Globe, February 19, 2002, "I Wrote Ransom Note" featured Nancy's story.
35. Susan Bennett said the Globe got Nancy's story off Webbsleuths forum
36. Susan Bennett said SHE DID NOT not contact the Globe.
37. Nancy repeatedly gave 1-205-384-9314 (pay phone) for posters to call her in Alabama
38. Nancy said she doesn't have easy access to the Internet and thus no e-mail
39. Nancy began posting at Webbsleuths in 2006 under "I KNOW"
40. Webbsleuths poster named Mint Julep said she did call and meet Nancy in Alabama
41. Nancy said she's been to Colorado to visit with Lou Smit (2003?)
42. Nancy said she spoke with Detective Tom Wickman via phone
43. A role play of the perfect murder book was planned, Christmas 95, in Colorado
44. The note pad was given to her 14 to 16 months before the murder
45. The ransom note pages were kept in an empty paper towel tube
46. She said she has lived in Georgia, Florida, and Alabama
47. She said a connection is where did the Ramsey's go Christmas evening of 1995

48. She's trying to find another woman who was also manipulated by sick brain
49. This other woman has information about the tape, cord, flashlight, AND billard balls.
50. Lady who "authored" ransom was an acquantences to someone close to the Ramseys
51. Nancy said acquantence close to the Ramseys is where they had dinner Christmas 1995
52. The ransom note "author" is familar with LE tactics and countermeasures
53. Nancy has phone bill with a Golden, Colorado phone number on it that sick brain made
54. She has two ceramic items that sick brain painted for her
55. Sick brain's paint brush was incorporate with knots into the pull cords on her window blinds
56. Nancy suggest BPD could test paint on ceramic items with paint brush in Patsy's tote.
57. Says high tech boots where probably purchased at Peabody Coal Company in Wyoming
58. She believes that the beaver hair came from the RN "authors" beaver hair trimmed boots
59. She met sick brain and her friends following the Carrie Smith Lawson 1991 kidnapping case
60. She heard news of JonBenet's murder 12-26-1996 from customer at a store where she worked.
61. She's willing to under sodium pentothal or polygraph to tell her story
62. She said tape/cord was purchased at Handy Dandy #7 on 20th Street in Jasper, Alabama
63. Handy Dandy #7 on 20th Street in Jasper, Alabama, later sold, became "Qwik Sac."

64. The ransom note "author" is named Mary, and she was married to a man named Jim
65. Nancy said Jim was employed by B&D Industrial Mining Services, Inc.
66. Nancy thinks Mary's husband Jim and John Ramsey connection to trade shows in Atlanta
67. Another male involved is named Larry, is self employed as a truck driver.
68. Two other woman involved, one read the ransom note, the other purchased the tape/cord
69. Whites name in Boulder was mentioned during the brain storming of the ransom note
70. The author's husband, Jim, made a claim to developing the chemical, permaloy
71. The husband Jim's photo was published on the front page of the permaloy advertising booklet
72. Nancy said names "Sepho" "Butch" "Todd" and "Charles" were brought up by the RN author
73. Nancy thinks names listed above could be the meaning of S.B.T.C. to sick brain Mary.
74. Handy Dandy stores were sold April 1999 to "Qwik Sac" (Said tape/cord purchased late 1996)
75. Ransom note "author" Mary lived on 15th street, she took in a homeless woman
76. Homeless woman is named Debra, she bought the cord and tape
77. Nancy is trying to locate this one time homeless woman named Debra
78. Jameson posted that Nancy's hometown is Conyers, Georgia, same as John Mark Karr
79. Nancy is frustrated that nobody seems interested in helping her. She says I KNOW
80. Nancy posted occasionally at Webbsleuths from 2002 until March 2006


Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2001-10-02: Jameson posts at Webbsleuths she received a new tip
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message from John Ramsey"

4. "innocent"
Posted by jameson on Oct-02-01 at 03:12 PM (EST)

If the Ramseys were guilty, I expect they would have said to me that they would like the discussion to stop so that the investigators could work quietly... but that is not what happened.

If the Ramseys are innocent, as I believe they are, I still would understand how they would want to be allowed to grieve in private, to get back some kind of private life. I think it is honorable of them to put themselves second to the search for justice.

I received a new tip today - I am just starting to look into it and it will mean taking some time away from the house, studying some files.... Is it the answer? I don't know. But I do expect to follow the lead a bit. We never know when someone might come forward with the answer.

Quote: 2001-10-02: Jameson posts at Webbsleuths she spoke with this person who wants to share a file
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message from John Ramsey"

7 . "today"
Posted by jameson on Oct-02-01 at 03:55 PM (EST)


I spoke to this person and they want to share a file with me. They are not in this state but will be traveling and I will make a short trip to pick up the file. I will look at it and decide then what to do with it.

This person didn't get my name from the book or the net but from someone related to law enforcement. Maybe that person just doesn't want his name on the file - we all saw the letters that were sent out when Ainsworth and DeMuth spoke out - so maybe the person just needs someone involved who doesn't have to worry about paybacks later. I don't know - - don't know if I ever will.

Maybe they figure this person's information may match something else I know about. I don't know. That has happened before - - I have had a simple conversation with someone and found that something they were saying related to something else I knew about a suspect. I won't know until I see the files.

But I think it is important people realize there is always something happening. Always.

(Oh, for the record, this person said they called the BPD and got no call back. So it isn't that they didn't try to get this in before - they tried and failed. Something happened recently to cause them to try again. I don't know if I can help. But I am willing to look at what they have.)

Quote: 2001-10-04: Jameson posts at Webbsleuths the person with tip is willing to take a polygraph
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message from John Ramsey"

15 . "filing a false report"
Posted by jameson on Oct-04-01 at 12:47 PM (EST)


There is another confession on the table now - not really a confession, a "tip". A person claims they are linked supplied the killer with something used in the crime. I am talking about a physical piece of evidence.

True, hoax or delusion? I don't know. Honestly don't know at this point.

I am not at liberty to say more - sorry, I know you understand that I can't - but I will say that the person wants to talk to authorities and told someone else they would be willing to take a polygraph.

I am checking this out a bit more before I decide if I want to get involved - the person is asking me to act as a liaison to the BPD. Some things about the story don't feel right - but I am going to listen to the person. If they convince me their story COULD be true, I will call Chief Beckner and ask to talk. I will not send him anything I think impossible. He knows and appreciates that.

Quote: [Image: nancy-ransom-note-writer212x293.gif]
2001-10-05: Jameson posts handwriting sample obtained from Nancy
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "handwriting??" (CLICK TO ENLARGE)

6 . "try this copy"
Posted by jameson on Oct-05-01 at 10:39 PM (EST)

I scanned it again - hope it is clearer.

The quote is John's. He did not write this. I saw this person write this. They did so at my request and did not have the ransom note to refer to - couldn't have copied the letters.

http://www.jameson245.com/10_5.gif (Jameson's original link)

[Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]

Quote: 2001-10-06: Jameson posts a copy of Nancy's handwriting was sent to Beckner, CBI and others.
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "handwriting??"

13 . "the note"
Posted by jameson on Oct-06-01 at 08:32 AM (EST)

I would welcome anyone to carry this handwriting sample to other forums for discussion. I have not sent it to the handwwriting people on-line who have worked on Ramsey stuff - but please feel free to do that - I would love to see what they say.

I am willing to swear that this was written at my request in a public place - the person was copying from a typed page and was NOT looking at a copy of the ransom note.

The person is ready and willing to speak to authorities - willing to take a polygraph - came through me for personal reasons and I am handling this in what I think is the best way.

A copy has been sent to Chief Beckner, the CBI and a couple others. I wouldn't do this unless I had reason to think this person might know something.

(For those wondering, the person says they were not part of what happened in the house on Christmas night - they say the note was written before the murder. You all know that is not what I think happened. Just thought I would throw that out there. Might make it a little less hard for some to understand why this person would come forward now.

Actually this person has tried to talk to other people but ... so now they have come to me.

I don't know if this is the answer at all - but I have been shown enough to be convinced a real investigator should interview this person, a real handwriting analyst should take controlled samples to study and authorities should check out historic ones as well.

So there it is.

Quote: 2001-10-06: Jameson posts a copy of Nancy's handwriting was sent to Beckner, CBI and others.
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "handwriting??"

23 . "DNA"
Posted by jameson on Oct-06-01 at 02:00 PM (EST)

I made no effort to get DNA fronm this person. As for the person or people they are saying may be imvolved, getting their DNA is not possible at this time. Not by me.

Quote: 2001-10-07: Jameson posts that Nancy traveled to North Carolina to met Jameson
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "handwriting??"

36 . "Summer"
Posted by jameson on Oct-07-01 at 09:55 PM (EST)

I was asked to call this person - it took me a while to do that - I questioned a few things she said. She traveled to my state to meet me- gave me a handwriting sample and some other information... convinced me that the BPD should visit her, interview her. Look at what I have seen and talk to some other people...

I have sent the sample to Beckner and the CBI and posted it here so everyone can see it. Hopefully the BPD will speak to her, find out if the tip is real or not.

Quote: 2001-10-10: Jameson posts that Nancy gave her audio and video tapes of her "friends"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "handwriting??"

60 . "welcome back LP!!!"
Posted by jameson on Oct-10-01 at 12:28 PM (EST)


She wants to talk about some people she thinks did this - she has sent me audio tapes and video tapes of them "at play" and they are scary people.



Quote: 2001-10-11: Jameson posts she sent package to Becker with video tape, papers, phone numbers
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "handwriting??"

64 . "Actually"
Posted by jameson on Oct-11-01 at 09:15 AM (EST)

Chief Beckner has been made aware of this person but he has not been given a real briefing on the situation.

There is a package in the mail to him - a video tape, a few papers that could be important and the name and phone number of the person who says she wrote the note. In all fairness to him, I expect he won't be able to start on this until next week. If he contacts the girl, I expect I will hear about it. Then I expect a wall of silence....

Good investigations are NOT done publicly.

Part of me is sorry I went on the forums with this tip - I haven't with others and really had to think about this one. All I can tell you is - I did have my reasons.

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2001-12-22: Jameson posts Nancy composed that ransom note
as part of a fantasy writing project

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "To Renatta from Nancy"

3 . "NO"
Posted by jameson on Dec-22-01 at 06:47 PM (EST)

She doesn't claim she killed Jonbenét. She says she and a friend composed that ransom note as part of a fantasy writing project. The writing was hers. She claims she and the friend parted company, the friend retained the "ransom note".

She believes the friend, or a friend of that friend, used the note in this crime.

She has shown me evidence of criminal behavior on the part of these "friends".


Then Nancy came to NC from another state to talk to me. She seemed very sincere, the writing is similar, she showed me what low-lifes her friends were (criminal types, oh, yeah) and...

hello, all she wants is for the cops to interview her, She is wiling to take a polygraph. I don't see why they aren't checking it out. At least run her name, and the name of her friends, through the system.


Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-01-27: Jameson posts Nancy wrote the note before murder
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's handwriting"

"Nancy's handwriting"
Posted by jameson on Jan-27-02 at 07:18 PM (EST)

Nancy said she physically wrote the note some months before the murder and that the girl she was writing with had possession of the note.

She asked the BPD to interview her, polygraph her, and they have not contacted her.

She says she has contacted her local police and FBI offices and they say the case belongs to the BPD and they will do nothing.

I sent this sample in to Beckner - he will not speak to Nancy.


Quote: 2002-01-27: Jameson re-posts "No7ThirdPlace" (aka Nancy) posting of January 27, 2002
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's handwriting"

3 . "He won't"
Posted by jameson on Jan-27-02 at 07:35 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-02 AT 01:52 PM (EST)

He has heer name, number and this handwriting sample along with a letter clearly outlining her position - she wants to talk to the authorities and is willing to take a polygraph. Beckner simply will not return her call.

her post:

65 . "S.B.T.C.-So Be The Cause"
Posted by No7ThirdPlace on Jan-27-02 at 05:26 PM (EST)

"Many of you on Jameson's forum know me as Nancy. The S.B.T.C.stands for SO BE THE CAUSE. In the original note the ending was S.B.T.C. to Victory. The person that I'll call the Sick Brain wanted the ending changed to Victory S.B.T.C..The Sick Brain got it's way.I know that I and my handwriting was used by this person.The sick brain dictated the note.I wrote the note. The note was suppose to be a part of a book titled The Perfect Murder.As far as I know and can remember the whole note came from The Sick Brain except for the S.B.T.C..The Sick Brain told me that the note needed some letters to go with the Victory and told me to think up something. So, I will tell you all that no one knows not even the CrimeWriter of why i came up with So Be The Cause.Now you know what S.B.T.C. stands for,but not why I chose those words. I know there are those of of you here that do not believe my story and that is your right. The story will never change because it is the truth and it is the way I lived it.My only worry is when all the pieces are being put together will all the people involved be treated as the Ramseys'GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT? I am sure I'm not the only one that was used."

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-01-27: Jameson posts Nancy believes they smuggled
the pad and pen INTO the house

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "So Be The Cause-Discussion"

1 . "No - -"
Posted by jameson on Jan-27-02 at 10:38 PM (EST)

Nancy believes they smuggled the pad and pen INTO the house. They would have had to have done that some time before the murder so Patsy had a chance to write on the pad.

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-01-28: Jameson posts at Webbsleuths that Nancy
didn't come forward for over 4 years

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's handwriting"

32 . "Nancy"
Posted by jameson on Jan-28-02 at 09:36 AM (EST)

I believe the Ramsey investigators are aware of her - I can't speak for them but I would think they have the same problems with her story that I have. Some of the same problems I am sure the the BPD has with it.

She says she wrote the note - - she said the friend had possession of it. She says HER note turned up in the Ramsey house. Along with the pad it was torn from - and that pad had been in the Ramsey house for some time because it had Patsy's handwriting on it.

That would work if the friend was LHP - would have known what kind of pad was in the Ramsey house, could have taken one, or taken pages from it and returned it...

But Nancy isn't in Colorado and neither is her friend. So just how does THAT work?

Nancy is pointing at her friend but the note was written months before the murder - - that note could have left her friend's possession. Maybe a friend of that friend took the note.

See the problems?

Nancy didn't come forward for over 4 years - that is a problem. Why? She said she didn't watch TV or anything - - just read the book in 2001 - - but most people would find it hard to think she totally missed that news story, missed that a John Ramsey had his daughter killed, then happened to read the Ramsey book and recognize the note.

The handwriting? Is it hers or did she take 4 years to learn the handwriting? I sure don't know.

She called me asking me to set up a meeting with the BPD - she wants to take a polygraph. If she passed they could go checking on her friend - check and see if she was in Colorado, maybe - - - or get a search warrant and go to her house looking for evidence - - that is something the Ramsey investigators can't do.

The fact that she traveled a LONG way to see me in person, the handwriting, that influenced me enough so that I sent this in to Beckner last Fall. That was done. If he won't act on it, there's nothing I can do. If he DOES act on it, I won't know unless Nancy finds out and tells me.

Like I said - I have some problems with the story - but I don't understand why Beckner doesn't do the minimum here - check on her history, have her interviewed and then make an educated decision on where to go from there.

I did all I am willing to do here. Nancy is an adult and running her own program here. But I am not going to be pushed into a position I don't want to be in. I personally have problems with her story - she knows that because we have discussed it. But I do think Beckner should at least have someone talk to her, check the handwriting, get historical samples. That's his job.

Quote: 2002-01-28: Jameson posts "tabloids will carry the story if she wants to give her name, go public"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's handwriting"

61 . "I am pretty sure"
Posted by jameson on Jan-28-02 at 02:18 PM (EST)

The tabloids will carry the story if she wants to give her name and go public. She didn't want to do that before - maybe she is changing her mind. if her friend is reading here, she has identified herself - no doubt.


Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-01-31: AMM posts questions to Nancy by BraveHeart
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

38 . "Response and more questions"
Posted by AMM on Jan-31-02 at 10:39 AM (EST)

BraveHeart post # 33 - my sentiments exactly. How can anyone say why bother when so much is at stake here. No rock should be left unturned. I find it very hard to believe that TR's investigators would just push this under the carpet and say why bother. If infact something pans out from all of this and the results are challanged by the authorities then so be it. At least it is something.

I can't believe that "Nancy" contacted both the BPD and the FBI without someone at least giving her a chance to tell her story and have her and her ex-friends investigated. I find it very hard to believe that the FBI would do that.

More questions for Nancy

1. Could you please tell me how long before JonBenets murder did you write the note?
2. Everytime you refer to the person you call the "sick brain" you never mention a gender. Is this person a male or female?
3. Where you in Boulder?
4. What coast do you live on?
5. How many people were involved in JB's death?
6. Was the "sick brain" hired by someone in the Ramsey's circle of friends to do this?
7. Do you either directly or indirectly know anyone affiliated with the Ramsey family?

Thank you for your time.


Quote: 2002-02-01: No7ThirdPlace answers questions from "Response to AMM'S post 38"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

40 . "Response to AMM'S post 38"
Posted by No7ThirdPlace on Feb-01-02 at 02:15 PM (EST)

1. Around 11/2 yr. 2. No comment. 3. Never been to Colorada. 4. 4 hrs. drive from Atlanta. 5. The note was suppose to be for a book not a real murder.I do not know.I was not there. 6. No comment. 7. No.


Quote: 2002-02-01: birgitta's question: "Id like to know if the killer of jonbenét is a religious or satanic fanatic"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

41 . "nancy ...."
Posted by birgitta on Feb-01-02 at 04:19 PM (EST)

Im truly glad to see you back at the board, Im convinced now, by my spiritual search that you are being sincere even thru there is something hidden that yet has to come out, Id like to ask you one question, it's up to you if you answer or not, i know that some people on the board are interested...Id like to know if the killer of jonbenét is a religious or satanic fanatic...

Im curious if you know that and if you are willing to answer that??


Quote: 2002-02-01: No7ThirdPlace posts that she doesn't know who the killer is
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

42 . "Birgetta"
Posted by No7ThirdPlace on Feb-01-02 at 04:52 PM (EST)

I don't know who the killer is. I was not there when the crime was committed. I know I left the note with Sick Brain.


Quote: 2002-02-01: Ashley asks NO7Thirdplace how does she know it's the same note
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

45 . "NO7Thirdplace"
Posted by Ashley on Feb-01-02 at 05:25 PM (EST)

I will say when I first saw your screen name a while back-- I got a vibe about you.Like maybe you were the killer. Don't know why.Sad So to hear you say you are involved somehow is pretty eerie.

My questions to you:

1. How do you know it si the exact same note?

2. Why did it take you so long to discover that they used the note you wrote?


Quote: 2002-02-01: NO7Thirdplace said sick brain had solid black bedroom with white flower border in house
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

49 . "Birgetta"
Posted by No7ThirdPlace on Feb-01-02 at 05:57 PM (EST)

Don't know if Sick Brain is religious fanatic , as far as I remember Sick Brain didn't go to church. Don't Know if Sick Brain is satanic fanatic. Sick Brain did have solid black bedroom with white flower border in house. Does that mean anything? I don't know.


Quote: 2002-02-01: NO7Thirdplace said "I discovered the note was use when I read DOI"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Nancy's Handwriting #2"

57 . "Ashley"
Posted by No7ThirdPlace on Feb-01-02 at 06:34 PM (EST)

There are many reason too lenghty to go into at this time. Here are three reasons. I wrote the note several times. It is my handwriting.I tried to get Sick Brain to change some of the words, such as attache'to briefcase.$118,000.00 to $1,000,000.00. By the way I did not use an accent mark on the word attache' in the note. I discovered the note was use when I read DOI.


Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-02-01: Why_Nut explains why BPD probably
can't get a warrant re: Nancy's story

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s Forum

59 . "Jameson"
Posted by why_nut on Feb-01-02 at 07:08 PM (EST)

"The BPD owns this case - they are the only ones who can fully investigate Sick Brain and that group of friends - - I can't, ST can't, Lou Smit can't, Ollie Gray can't. We can't subpoena their work records, charge card records... Can't get a search warrant to go into their homes to look for a stun gun and boots."

The BPD may not be able to get a warrant, either, or do anything with the evidence even if they obtained it.

No. 00SA85, People v. Randolph.

Fourth Amendment--Search and Seizure--Search Warrants--Sufficiency of Affidavit--Good Faith Exception to the Exclusionary Rule.

In this interlocutory appeal, the Supreme Court affirms a district court's order suppressing seized evidence on the grounds that the warrant was facially deficient. Based on information gained from a government informant, police officers prepared a search warrant and a supporting affidavit seeking to search the defendant's property for evidence of narcotics activity. The affidavit and the warrant covered multiple buildings on the defendant's property, without specifying criminal activity in a particular building or alleging criminal activity in all of the buildings. The Supreme Court concludes that the warrant was not valid. The affidavit supporting the warrant was a "bare bones" affidavit that did not contain enough information to provide the magistrate who signed the warrant with a substantial basis to conclude that probable cause existed to believe that evidence of criminal activity would be found on the defendant's property. The affidavit did not suggest that the informant who provided the information had any personal basis of knowledge of criminal activity, and the police did not corroborate the informant's allegations. Further, the affidavit did not specify which buildings on the defendant's property likely contained evidence of criminal activity. Because the affidavit and the search warrant lacked sufficient particularity, the warrant was defective. Furthermore, the Supreme Court rejects the argument that the evidence is nonetheless admissible under the good faith exception to the exclusionary rule. In this case, the Court finds that the affidavit was so facially deficient that no officer would reasonably have relied on the warrant. Therefore, the trial court's order to suppress is affirmed and the case is remanded for further proceedings.

Apparently, to translate the above into Ramsey-relevant terms, Nancy (as government informant) would have to be able to provide the BPD with "enough information to provide the magistrate who signed the warrant with a substantial basis to conclude that probable cause existed to believe that evidence of criminal activity would be found on the defendant's property." Suspicion and vague proof that one is associating with low-lifes is not enough.

Quote: 2002-02-01: Why_Nut posts Passing polygraphs is not sufficient cause to issue a warrant
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s Forum

68 . "Jameson"
Posted by why_nut on Feb-01-02 at 09:09 PM (EST)

"Surely if Nancy passed a polygraph and handwriting analysis they could check out the house of the person she last saw in possession of that note."

Passing polygraphs is not sufficient cause to issue a warrant. Handwriting analysis is not sufficient cause to issue a warrant. Providing probable cause that a person has actual physical evidence connected to a crime scene is sufficient cause to issue a warrant. At best, Nancy's words might lead to a warrant on her own house being issued, but even that is the remotest of possibilities. The warrant in connection with McElroy was to find evidence that may have been present at JonBenet's death in the form of boots or weaponry or writing elements. Nancy is not making a claim that she or any of her possessions were present. She is not claiming special personal knowledge that her acquaintances were physically present at the crime scene and she can prove it to police and a judge by helping them find physical evidence if a warrant is issued. Until she can come up with something substantial, her involvement is exactly the sort of thing Bryan Morgan referred to in John Ramsey's deposition in the Miles case:

MR. MORGAN: We have spent a lot of time and effort and energy trying to develop leads that we thought were useful. A lot of junk comes in over the transom, and it's junk.

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-02-08: Jameson posts on Webbsleuths that the
GLOBE got Nancy's story from forum

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Globe story - Nancy"

"Globe story - Nancy"
Posted by jameson on Feb-08-02 at 02:57 PM (EST)

The Globe reporter took Nancy's story off the forum and it will be featured in the tabloid this week. It hits the stands in NYC and other large cities today - - most of us can get it in a few days.

Quote: 2002-02-09: Jameson posts "I object to the term "confidante" from GLOBE article on Nancy
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Globe story - Nancy"

16 . "I object"
Posted by jameson on Feb-09-02 at 10:29 PM (EST)

The quote - "The woman's story was brought to light by Sue Bennett, a confidante of the Ramsey family, who repeatedly expresses her belief in their innocence on an Internet website she runs."

I object to the term "confidante" - I never described myself as such and feel they would agree. The term is misleading.

Quote: 2002-02-10: Jameson posts "After the story came out I did speak to him (GLOBE)"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Globe story - Nancy"

26 . "Well,"
Posted by jameson on Feb-10-02 at 10:33 PM (EST)

you're very wrong on this one. The reporter approached me.

He ended up taking the story off the forum - - I assure you the story will include NOTHING that wasn't on the forum.

After the story came out I did speak to him and tell him a few more details. But that was after the story was hitting the stands.

So, as usual, you are wrong and your sad obsession is very evident.

Quote: 2002-02-11: Jameson posts "WE did not go to the Globe. I advised Nancy NOT to talk to them"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Globe story - Nancy"

41 . "For the last time"
Posted by jameson on Feb-11-02 at 01:45 PM (EST)

WE did not go to the Globe. I advised Nancy NOT to talk to them because of the way they handled the DNA story Robinson did. It was so wrong it was sickening.

We didn't approach them - - they got the story off the forum.

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-02-14: Jameson posts BPD said Nancy was a
"smart ass" and called her a "butthole"

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "BPD spoke to Nancy"

"BPD spoke to Nancy"
Posted by jameson on Feb-14-02 at 07:36 PM (EST)

Well, Nancy called them again and this time a detective did return her call. Questioned her, she said, for a while. Nancy felt he did not want to be there. Tried to get to to say some things she simply ws NOT going to say and told her she was being a "smart ass". I have spoken to her in several moods, I have never seen her as a "smart ass".

He was entitled to his opinion but I was surprised to hear he had actually called her a name.

I later got a call from another woman - Barbara. She is a friend of Nancy and she called to tell me the detective had called her to ask her just how insane Nancy was. She told me that she said Nancy was perfectly sane and HE said ... well, she reports he called her a "butthole". I said "Butthole? You mean asshole?" She said no, he told her she was a "butthole".

So while I can report that they have decided to do some follow up, I somehow suspect their heart isn't in it.

I will leave you to your own thoughts.

Quote: 2002-02-14: Jameson posts she made another tape for the BPD of the tape that Nancy gave her
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "BPD spoke to Nancy"

16 . "Nancy wasn't coy"
Posted by jameson on Feb-14-02 at 09:23 PM (EST)


She also sent me home with audio and video tapes. I have since returned them to her but I did put together a tape that I felt.... well, I thought the BPD needed to see certain things and I made a tape from her tapes and sent it to Captain Beckner.

Today it seemed Detective Wickman had no knowledge of that tape, hadn't read the Globe story. But now he has had a chance to read the article and he has been informed that somewhere in the BPD, there is a tape.


Quote: [Image: 02192002NEWS-Globe-IWroteRN.jpg]The Globe, February 19, 2002, "I Wrote Ransom Note," Mystery Woman's Shocking Confession

"A mystery woman has made startling claims that she wrote the notorious ransom note discovered in JonBenet Ramsey's home just hours before the pageant princess's body was discovered - and experts say her handwriting is eerily similar to that found in the chilling letter."

"Identified only as "Nancy", (---) contacted a friend (---) and Patsy Ramsey that she wrote the (--) before the (--) as part of a book called "Perfect Murder."

(--) the instructions (--) author, she penned the letter and only recognized it as her work when copies of the note were released months after the murder." Although police are discounting the potential blockbuster evidence, an expert asked by Globe says...its deserves investigation.

"There are a lot of eerie similarities here," notes Linda Collins James, a member of the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences, who has examined documents for both the FBI and US Department of Justice." She tells GLOBE "There's just too much to just brush this person aside without looking deeper. If I were working on this case, I would ask...for handwriting samples."

Investigators believe whoever penned the ransom note was involved in the murder... Now Nancy's claims could further cloud the issue, says the source. The woman's story was brought to light by Sue Bennett, a confidante of the Ramsey family, who repeatedly expresses her belief in their innocence on an Internet website she runs.

Despite the confession, other experts reach a different conclusion. Noted document examiner, Larry Ziegler, who has also worked with the FBI, recently declared "I know who the writer of the ransom note is. Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note."

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2002-06-03: Jameson posts Nancy's suspect "doesn't mind handling a dead body"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Whatever Happened to"

2. "Nancy"
In response to message #1

Charter Member
11727 posts
Jun-03-02, 11:04 AM (EST)


I have problems with her story but I know enough about the suspect to say she has a criminal mind and a certain home movie I have viewed of the woman clearly shows she is capable of this. She doesn't mind handling a dead body and loves to be the center of attention.


On January 16, 2006 a poster known as "Candy" who normally posts at the Cybersleuths Forum starts a new thread on http://www.webbsleuths.com forum titled, "ST in LE training session." Of course Candy starts the thread to attack Steve Thomas but that’s another story. By posting #87 on that thread, and four days later, a poster under the name of "Evening2" posts, "I live in Baldwin County, Alabama" and the same day this Nancy, now under the name of "I KNOW" appears out of nowhere and posts that she lives in Walker County, Alabama and she supplies a telephone booth phone number and TELLS "Evening2" to call her at a specified time because she needs to talk to him/her.

And so the story continues.......

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2006-01-20: Evening2 posts on Webbsleuths that she's
from Baldwin County, Alabama

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "ST in LE training session"

87. "RE: Interview"
In response to message #85

Member since 7-7-03
01-20-06, 08:53 AM (EST)

Thanks, Candy,,,for posting. I live in Baldwin County, Alabama so I guess our LE will be there to. I never did hear back from my daughter about my request to attend,,,so I'll have no news to bring to the forum.


Quote: 2006-01-20: I KNOW tells Evening2 to call her at a phone booth on January 21st
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "ST in LE training session"

100. "RE: Interview"
In response to message #87

I know
unregistered user
01-20-06, 03:43 PM (EST)

I live in Walker County, Alabama. I need to talk to you. Call 1-205-384-9314 (a pay phone) at 11 a.m. Saturday, January 21, 2006.

Signed "I know"

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2006-01-20: Evening2: "The best way for "I know" to get
information to any poster is to send a PM"

Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

3. "RE: Message for poster"
In response to message #2

Member since 7-7-03
01-20-06, 11:18 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 01-20-06 AT 11:19 PM (EST)

Tipper...isn't that funny? Well,,,until "I know" let's us know who he was "posting" to we'll just sit here and wonder. The best way for "I know" to get information to any poster is to send a PM or send a webbsleuth's email. Or,,,send an email to Jameson who will then forward it to the poster. I know "I" won't be treking down to the pay phone at 11 tomorrow to place a LD call to yet another pay phone.

Quote: 2006-01-20: Evening2: "phone number IS a Walker County, Alabama phone number"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

7. "RE: Message for poster"
In response to message #6

Member since 7-7-03
01-20-06, 11:47 PM (EST)

Well,,,the phone number IS a Walker County, Alabama phone number and the exchange seems to be a downtown exchange,,,but,,,the message is from a stranger and my mother taught me "never to talk to strangers".

Quote: 2006-01-23: I KNOW's message to EVENING2: "This is a very sincere prompt to talk to you"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

16. "RE: Message for poster"
In response to message #3

unregistered user
01-23-06, 05:04 PM (EST)

This message is for EVENING2...

Even tho your mom taught you not to talk to strangers, you're doing it every day thru this forum...Candy is on the mark....This is a very sincere prompt to talk to you because you are my hope of someone hearing me out on what I know about the Ramsey case...You seem to want to get to the bottom of this case and have it solved as much as I do....This is why I needed to speak to you. If you are interested in talking to me....just say the word and we'll set up a time and place.


Quote: 2006-01-23: EVENING2 tells I KNOW that she is "suspect" of her intentions
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

17. "RE: Message for poster"
In response to message #16

Member since 7-7-03
01-23-06, 05:09 PM

"I KNOW",,,last time you used "I know" so I continue to be suspect of your intentions.

I have already posted that the ONLY way to "talk" to me is by sending an email (or snail mail)
to Jameson which she will in turn forward to me.

I trust her and,,,if you ARE sincere,,,you can trust her as well.

I will not, therefore, respond to any future posts.

Quote: 2006-01-25: Mint Julep: "exchange belongs to Jasper, Alabama. I live less than 50 miles from there"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

19. "RE: responding to I Know"
In response to message #15

Mint Julep
unregistered user
01-25-06, 01:08 AM (EST)

The 205-384- exchange belongs to Jasper, Alabama. I live less than 50 miles from there. Unfortunately, I did not see this thread until after the 11:00 on 1/21 time for the call, or I would have been willing to call myself.

Quote: 2006-01-25: I KNOW post a new phone booth number for Mint Julip to call on January 25th
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

26. "RE: responding to I Know"
In response to message #19

unregistered user
01-25-06, 04:32 PM (EST)

Mint Julip, I appreciate your support. I'm glad you feel comfortable enough that you would be willing to talk to me.

I'm glad to know that there is someone close by that I may share info with. It would be great if you would call or meet with me.I do not have access to the internet on regular basis, so if you would like to talk, call me at 205-384-9314, at 6 p.m. central time on January 25, 2005 and we will set up a meeting. If you receive this message late, contact me via this forum with time you can call or meet.


Quote: 2006-01-26: I KNOW post phone booth number again for Mint Julip to call on January 28th
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Message for poster "I know"

In response to message #30

unregistered user
01-26-06, 03:45 PM (EST)





Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2006-01-29: Mint Julep said I KNOW wants to locate a specific person also knowledge of the crime
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "My Talk with I Know"

My Talk with I Know

Mint Julep
unregistered user
01-29-06, 00:53 AM (EST)

Just wanted the board to know that I called the number provided by I Know at the appointed time today, and it was answered by a person, not a fax machine nor a Viagra ad. We had a phone conversation followed by a face-to-face. I Know wants to locate a specific person. Both this person and I Know have specific knowledge of the crime, which, according to I Know, had its genesis far away from Colorado and many months prior to December 1996. I Know has been to the police without success.

I will provide details to Jameson, but no further here without permission.

Quote: 2006-01-31: I KNOW: I have been to Colorado, spoke w/Lou Smit & spoke with Mr. Wickman via phone
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "My Talk with I Know"

In response to message #0

unregistered user
01-31-06, 05:14 PM (EST)

I posted here thinking that I might get some help from a poster in my general location. I gave Mint Julip the name of an individual that I am trying to locate, that possibly has evidence. I need help in finding this person.

As far as the handwriting, I seem to recall that some of the so called handwriting experts tried to make a case against Patsy Ramsey based on her handwriting. Didn't you Mr. Foster? When did handwriting analysis become an exact science?

I know it seems that I have an attitude, and I guess I do to an extent. I have been to Colorado and spoke with Lou Smit & spoke with Mr. Wickman via phone. Twice, I've traveled to Hickory, N.C. and spoke with Sue Bennett. I have as well spoken with my local authorities and a neighboring county authority. I went to Birmingham, Al. to speak with the FBI. No one wants take the info and use it to investigate.

I told Mint Julip that am willing to go under sodium pentothal to proof to everone that I am telling the truth.

Thank you Mint Julip for your time and trust and hope that you have taken me seroius.


Quote: 2006-02-08: I KNOW posted JBR's murder was suppose to be in 1995. Mentions Whites 1995 Dinner
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "My Talk with I Know"

In response to message #17

unregistered user
02-08-06, 04:55 PM (EST)

Ashley don't let anyone sway you from your theory of the suspect. There was suppose to be a role play of the previous brain storming of the so called perfect murder book, Christmas of 1995, in Colorado. Where did the Ramsey's go Christmas evening of 1995, for dinner? The role play , without my knowledge, which became a crime, was planned to go down the previous Christmas, 1995.. I suppose when I bowed out on helping with the book it was called off. The note pad was given to me 14 to 16 months before the crime was committed. I'm sure the note pad, sharpie pen and ransom note was left in the house the night of the crime. The ransom note was kept in an empty paper towel tube.

No, I've never lived in Colorado. I've lived in Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. I went to Colorado a few years ago when I visited Lou Smit.

Yes, Ashley, we all learned to print the Alphabet the same way, then our charater sort of slips in over time. I will explain later to someone in authority about the ransom note configeration. I will tell you that I was used and I'm sure there are others that were used in the commission of this crime and probably other crimes.


Quote: 2006-02-10: I KNOW says woman who authored RN is close to Rameys (She is suggesting Fleet White)
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "My Talk with I Know"

In response to message #22

unregistered user
02-10-06, 04:50 PM (EST)

Yes, I saw the comparison of my letters to that of the ransome note and it brought back thoughts of the circumstances surrounding the time I copied the note from the master copy.

I wish that the authorities could have the insight that you have, and if so, the case would be solved. I penned, not authored, the whole note that was left in the Ramsey's house.

I put the note in a paper towel tube and gave it to the women that authored the note. I have no idea how she stored nor how she transported the note. The woman that authoried the note and the women I'm trying to find are two different individuals. I also believe that the lady I am trying to find was manipulated just as I was. She has important information about the tape, cord, flashlight, and billard balls.

This lady that authored the note was an acquantences to someone close to the Ramseys. I told you who in my reply to Ashley.

As far as being on any form of medication, the only kind I was taking was Pepcid. But at the time of copying the note, I did have three wine coolers in my system. I was also angry at that time becasue the lady that authored the note was persistant that I get the finished note to her.

The author women is familar with LE tactics and countermeasures by inserting herself into murder and kidnapping cases.

Evidence to connect:

I have a phone bill with a Golden, Colorado phone number on it that she made.

I have a two ceramic items that she painted for me, using a paint brush that she would incorporate with knots into the pull cords on her window blinds. Maybe the authorities can take paint samples from the ceramics to see if they match the brush-end they found in Patsy's tote. The high tech boots where probably purchased at Peabody Coal Company in Wyoming. Many more things but too numerous to mention.

Thank you for your help and for asking all these questions. Just wish that Bolder Police Dept. would have given me the same courtsey.


Quote: 2006-02-10: BraveHeart ask I KNOW what billiard balls have to do with the crime
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "My Talk with I Know"

In response to message #35

unregistered user
02-10-06, 06:40 PM (EST)

You said the woman you seek knew something about the cord, tape and billiard balls?

Do you think she was the one who procured those items? Where would she have bought the tape?

What do billiard balls have to do with this crime.

Were any of these people near Charlevoix that year?

Quote: 2006-02-13: I KNOW "I believe beaver hair came from the authors' beaver hair trimmed boots"
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "My Talk with I Know"

50. "RE: TO MESSAGES 36, 42, 47"
In response to message #36

unregistered user
02-13-06, 04:53 PM (EST)

RE: BraveHeart Message 36

I know she procured these items!
Rainsong was right, as an instrument
I have no idea where they were.

RE: May B Message 42

This is not a game....this is my life and many other lives.
The paper towel tube was used as a transport and to keep the notes clean and crisp.
The whole story has not been told in respect to what took place in this part of the U.S.

RE: KatBaloo Message 47

You're asking, is it possible that the author of the note is the murderer and you are wondering if the murderer is me!!!! I am not the author of the note neither am I the murderer!!!! I only copied the note and returned it in a paper towel tube and it ended up in the Ramsey's house Christmas of 1996. I believe the pad, sharpie pen and note were left Christmas night of 1996.

And I believe that the beaver hair came from the authors' beaver hair trimmed boots.

Quote: [Image: JamesonsWebbsleuthsName3.jpg]2006-02-15: I KNOW posts it started by helping Dave/Harriet Smith find missing Carrie Smith Lawson
Jameson’s WebbSleuths’s thread, "Response to some post"

"Response to some post"

unregistered user
02-15-06, 05:45 PM (EST)

Post 49 "Rainsong"

She would be in her late 60's at this time.

I don't know. I thought the brainstorming and note was for her book.

IMO, she is capable. She was so into the Carrie Smith Lawson kidnapping at that time and made many comments that she was better than the Jasper police, FBI and profilers. She also said that she could commit a murder and get away with it. IMO, she has, so far.

Post 43 "Evening 2"

I heard the day it was released throught the national news media, December 26, 1996. A customer came into the store where I worked and said something to me about it.

In 1995, I told her that my reason for forming a relationsip with her was not to help write a book but to help Dave and Harriet Smith find the people responsible for the kidnapping of their daughter, Carrie Smith Lawson. When I handed her the ranson note that was intended to be for her book, I told her that I did not want anything else to do with the book because her energy changed from helping to find Carrie Smith Lawson to creating her fiction kidnapping, murder book. I wanted my energy to be used in something helpful.

She told me that the next book would be about Carrie. Either book has never materialized, nor the books that she prompted other individuals to help her write regarding the corruption in Walker County,Jasper,Alabama.



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  OTHER handwriting samples
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-06-2017, 04:27 PM - Forum: Handwriting - Replies (4)

Going to start with one by a woman we called "Nancy" online.  She swears she wrote the note as a favor for a friend - the friend, who I will call Mary, was writing a book and it involved a child being kidnapped.  Mary wanted an image of a ransom note for her book so asked "Nancy" to write this.  It was dictated and rolled up to be stored, according to Nancy.

ANYWAY, Nancy drove to NC to meet with me and I did not take anything from her but asked her to write this in front of me.  I opened a copy of DOI and had her copy a page so I could see that she didn't write it slowly and carefully, but in a normal fashion.

What do you think?  Pretty close to most eyes.  But the experts said it was not a match.

Print this item

  3/5/01 on Peter Boyles
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-06-2017, 03:00 PM - Forum: Darnay Hoffman - No Replies

"Boyles/Hoffman transcript"
Posted by jams on Mar-05-01 at 12:30 PM (EST)

Boyles: ... a couple of developments in the Ramsey case - and the Ramseys, of course, had their home broken into - - winkie-winkie. And then they have been hit with two lawsuits - the second one will be filed on behalf of their former housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, this morning, and the man who's doing it has been a long-time friend to this investigation Please say good morning and welcome back to Denver the talented Darnay Hoffman. Good Morning.

Hoffman: Good Morning, Peter, I'm glad to hear you're back and well.

Boyles: Hey, Darnay, it's good to hear your voice. I saw you on the Today Show when I was laid up. (laughter from Darnay)

Hoffman: That was an interesting occasion

Boyles: Yeah, it really was

Hoffman: As that show was going on, basically someone was burglarizing John Ramsey's home.

Boyles: Yes. I thought it was classic that initially Patsy Ramsey, during this burglary, was off meeting with friends, and then the lawyers got involved and the story turned into Patsy was at bible study.

Hoffman: Well, my favorite report of the story was the nature of the things taken, and one of the things indentified was the "K-Mart Jewelry" of Patsy. That wasn't a very smart burglar.

Boyles: Yeah, you got to think about it, you think to yourself, "What is Patsy and John doing the second time their alarm system is not turned on. These are people who have gone through so much, they claim, because they were not smart enough to turn on their burglary alarm system, and now, of course, it was turned off a second time.

Hoffman: Well, Peter, you know, in their book, in the part of the book that's just before the one where they talk about Chris Wolf, apparently there was an incident at that home also involving the alarm system being off. Nedra and Patsy arriving there and John going through the house with a frying pan checking every room and every closet for potential intruders. So this apparently has happened before. And then there is the strange incident of the boots that had been left at the Charlevoix home, mysteriously.

Boyles: Yeah, they are an interesting and fun to watch - but what I had to love when I was out was that the judge in Atlanta gave the green light to Chris Wolf's lawsuit and I watched the - - by the way -after - the question I keep asking is, where is that threatened lawsuit against Steve Thomas, the Boulder cop? Remember?

Hoffman: Oh Yeah

Boyles: John Ramsey sitting there on Larry King "You're gonna see a lot more of Team Ramsey. We're gonna sue you." Hey, John! Where's that lawsuit.

Hoffman: In fact, if they don't bring by sometime in mid-April they'll be barred by the statute of limitations that is one year for libel.

Boyles: They're not suing. They're not gonna have an OJ civil trial, but they may because of you.

Hoffman: Well, the way it looks now, based on the judge's decision, they are going to have a civil trial for the murder case because she ruled that in this particular instance, if we can show that Patsy wrote the ransom note, then we actually have a case. And that's the reason she green-lighted it - because she actually thinks that there might be a chance that we can do that in court.

Boyles: Who knew, right?

Hoffman: Yeah, exactly.

Boyles: The other part of this now is, I believe, and I take some pride in this, because I believe I was the intermediary to Linda Hoffmann-Pugh to you - - but now LHP - how much is she suing them for?

Hoffman: For the same amount that Chris Wolf is - Fifty Million dollars. In fact, the decision was made to wait to file her suit until we saw what the judge did with Chris Wolf's suit because we thought that he had been libeled more severely in their book than LHP had - We felt that LHP had been also, but we wanted to see what the judge would do with Chris Wolf and as soon as she gave us the green light there, we decided we'd run out and file for Linda. But there has been a development. We're filing the suit on Thursday out of respect for the family because apparently Nedra died on Friday and was buried secretly on Sunday. So we decided that, with respect to the family and their feelings, not to actually file the suit until this Thursday because of this sudden development over the weekend.

Boyles: Patsy Ramsey's mother passed away, you're saying, on Friday?

Hoffman: On Friday. She had been very sick , apparently had many things wrong with her, among them diabetes. And apparently the family did not want the news out so they could have a secret burial. And that was done yesterday and so as a result we have decided, and I know that Linda still has feeling for at least some of the family, decided that out of respect for Nedra that we would file the suit this Thursday instead of today.

Boyles: Take a second here, Darnay, and explain to the audience who Chris Wolf is and who LHP are.

Hoffman: Well, Chris Wolf is a Boulder business journalist. He has lived in Boulder for many years, has written for many newspapers - in fact was quite distinguished, winning an award in 1995 by, I think, the Co Press association for the best business series in journalism. LHP is a housekeeper that worked for the Ramseys and was very close to the family and JonBenét for about 14 months and in fact had last seen JonBenét and the family, I think about 48 hours before the actual death of JonBenet. The most interesting thing about LHP is that she is the first person that the police actually went and investigated and interrogated. She is the first name that Patsy Ramsey and John Ramsey gave police as a suspect. So while JonBenét's body was still in the house, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh was already being interrogated by the police and being required to give handwriting samples and they later swabbed her daughter... younger daughter's mouth for DNA samples.

Boyles: and they went out to their home and confronted her and her husband - did they not - that morning?

Hoffman: Well, Patsy was waltzing out of her home in a fur coat, without any kind of interrogation, while Linda Hoffmann-Pugh was being grilled along with her whole family.

Boyles: Absolutely and I've gotten to know Linda. We speak from time to time. And initially she was a very staunch defender of John and Patsy. She was quite angry with me and angry at some other people like Chuck Green and when she realized that the Ramseys... that she was one of - - now it's been dozens of people that the Ramseys have have thrown under the bus - then the light goes on for her and her husband and they realize what John and Patsy - while they are defending John and Patsy - what John and Patsy are really doing to them.

Hoffman: Well, she's also had an opportunity to see more evidence in the case, of the handwriting. We've had two experts which have come forward since we filed the lawsuits. One is Gideon Epstein who the US Government ........ used to identify nazi's in America in order to be able to bring them to justice. In fact there was that famous case, what was that ......... he identified him as the ex-nazi. He also appeared in Noriega trials and he consulted with the Philippine government to teach their police how to do forensic handwriting examination. And we have one other - Larry Zeigler - who's an ex... senior FBI document examiner. They say without a doubt that Patsy wrote the note and all of that is stuff that LHP has seen and it has really changed her mind about exactly what happened.

Boyles: So what's the court dates? What are you

Hoffman: What happens, in Atlanta we have to complete discovery in 4 months which means that we have to be ready for trial by the end of July at the latest. That means Patsy and John, in fact, I was talking to Lin Wood recently. We were talking about April depositions but it will probably be more like May for both Patsy and John and Chris Wolf. LHP will come along a little later because her suit's being filed later.

Boyles: Both of those are filed in Atlanta, correct?

Hoffman: Both in Atlanta, and more importantly, both in front of Judge Julie Carnes who is a former federal prosecutor - who's appointed by George Bush Senior - a mother and a law-and-order Republican.

Boyles: Oh Boy!

Hoffman : And she ain't smiling, I'll tell you that, when she, you know, thinks of Patsy.

Boyles: Can Court Tv pick this one up and run it live?

Hoffman: Unfortunately not, the federal court will not allow television. They have never allowed television.

Boyles: So much like the OJ civil trial, this will be locked away.

Hoffman: Unfortunately, yes. Seeing Patsy on the stand will be quite a revelation to some people.

Boyles: That might be worth a trip to Atlanta

Hoffman: Yes, it might.

Boyles: We will stay in touch. So again, best guess when this will happen...

Hoffman: Best guess is... we will be deposing the Ramseys - which is the first important breakthrough because they've never testified... Patsy's never testified under oath... she'll have to answer our questions - there will not be a laundry list of conditions in this case. And there will be a judge telling her that she has to answer questions - or take the 5th amendment. We expect a jury trial - probably sometime within 9 months to a year, given everything it will take to get to a jury

Boyles: Are you going to put together a team to work with you?

Hoffman: Absolutely. In fact I.... this handwriting team is exquisite. I don't think there's any doubt that the essential question in this case which is, "Did Patsy Ramsey write the ransom note?" That's basically what we are going to do. The Ramseys have already helped prove our case for us because they conceded on the Larry King show that whoever wrote the ransom note is the murderer. So we don't even have to prove that Patsy murdered her daughter, she concedes with John that whoever wrote the note murdered her daughter so all we have to do is show that Patsy Ramsey is the ransom note writer. And that we are going to be able to do rather easily.

Boyles: Were going to speak soon Darnay. Thank you for your time. Good to hear your voice. Thanks for being with us.

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  Daily camera story
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-02-2017, 03:38 PM - Forum: DNA - more technical discussions - No Replies


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  CU's one sixth rule
Posted by: jameson245 - 06-02-2017, 02:48 PM - Forum: Michael Tracey - No Replies

By Doug Cosper
Boulder Planet

August 5, 1998

State legislators and CU regents are questioning the university's ability to keep track of how much school time its professors spend on personal, for-profit work.

At the center of the controversy is a documentary film co-produced by University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey that features an interview with John and Patsy Ramsey.

In violation of regents' rules, Tracey did not complete the paperwork designed to track the university time he spent making the film.

The subject of the film, which takes the media to task for its coverage of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, is not at issue because it falls solidly within Tracey's field of study, everyone interviewed for this story agreed.

But the school's inability to say how much of Tracey's salaried time was spent on the film, from which he and his partners hope to profit personally, has raised some eyebrows at the state Capitol.

"If (professors) are going to spend X weeks on a project, higher education should be able to account for that," said State Sen. Jim Rizzuto, the longest-running member of the Joint Budget Committee. The committee is the legislative body that allocates the state budget, including funds for colleges and universities.

"That would be something I would be more than interested in bringing up at our next budget session in September," said Rizzuto, who co-sponsored a bill in 1994 that increased accountability standards: for state faculty sabbaticals. "This at least raises the question, that unless you have some accountability standards, it's eventually going to come up as a problem."

Joint Budget Committee Chairman Tony Grampsas called the issue an "accountability problem" and said: it's "the last thing CU needs in a tight budgetary season."

"I'm surprised the dean wouldn't be more cautious with that," said Grampsas, a Republican representative from Evergreen. "The budget's going to be stretched next year. The university doesn't want to be sitting here fighting another allegation that it is not paying attention to the details. That's people's jobs, for Christ's sake.

"Accountability is going to be at the core of a lot of questions asked next year again. The public is concerned about it," he added.

Tracey and Wick Rowland, dean of CU's School of Journalism and Mass Communication, acknowledged the paperwork omission. But both passionately defended the documentary project as a prime example of what university professors should be doing.

Honor system

CU allows, even encourages, its full-time faculty to spend up to one-sixth of their time and energy on consultation or research projects related to, but outside of, their regular university duties. Regents' rules allow professors to continue to collect their regular state salaries while being paid for that outside work.

"The point of the one-sixth rule is to keep professors involved in the community and real world and bring that experience back to the classroom," said Fort Collins Regent Guy Kelley. In establishing : the rules, the Board of Regents resolved, "... that public office not be used for private gain, and that there be complete public confidence in the integrity of the university."

Regents' rules require professors to inform their deans or department chairs before they undertake outside work for pay, said Todd Gleeson, CU associate vice chancellor for academic affairs. The professor is required to complete an "application for approval of additional remuneration." No further formal accounting is required.

"It's fundamentally an honor system," Gleeson said.

The one-page remuneration form "is the only paper trail that I am aware of," to track time spent on outside work, Gleeson said. The form asks professors to describe proposed projects, how much time they intend to spend on them, and what university facilities would be used.

The one-sixth rule is common in universities across the United States, said Robert Kreiser, spokesman for the American Association of University Professors, a Washington, D.C., group dedicated to defending principles of academic freedom, tenure and professional ethics. And CU's method of tracking how much time is spent for outside pay is not unusual.

"It's generally lax, across the country," Kreiser said. "The main concern is that people don't get so involved in what they're doing as to compromise their carrying out of their normal academic duties. The problem comes up when people tend to take advantage of the laxity, or it is a high- profile case like (Tracey's)," he said.

Kreiser said the issue has seldom been raised with the AAUP, but added, "We're seeing a lot of intrusions by legislators who believe that academic administrators are not enforcing the rules strictly enough."

Work now, ask later

Tracey said of the approval form, "I didn't know it existed. There are so many bloody forms at CU." He added he was only "vaguely aware" of the one-sixth rule. Tracey pointed out that although he had hoped to make money on the documentary, so far, "I've not seen a dime."

Great Britain's Channel 4 paid about £200,000 ($320,000) for a 60-minute version of the documentary that aired there last month, Tracey said. That money, combined with proceeds of a local broadcast scheduled for Wednesday, Aug. 5, on KUSA Channel 9, only covered the costs of production. Tracey said he has received about $10,000 in expenses for the project, mostly spent for travel to London, where the piece was edited. If he is going to profit on the Ramsey film, he said, it will be through a hoped-for American network sale and a subsequent book advance.

"I wish I had made some bloody money. It's cost me a lot. It's been an absolute nightmare," Tracey : said of the project. Tracey receives a salary of $80,941 from CU for a nine-month contract, according to the university.

Like most full professors in the journalism school, he teaches two classes a semester. Last spring semester, during which he said he put in the most time on the project, Tracey taught one undergraduate class of about 30 students with the aid of a teacher's assistant, and one graduate seminar of four students.

Boulder Regent Bob Sievers, who also is a CU professor of chemistry, said both professor and dean share responsibility for the approval form's completion.

"The faculty member has the responsibility to report outside activities and ask permission in advance, and the dean has a responsibility to remind people to observe the policy. You're supposed to obtain permission before you do it, not do it and ask permission later," he said.

'I have no idea'

Dean Rowland said he advised his faculty to request written approval for paid outside work. He added that he believed "the responsibility for filling them out and determining whether they should do that falls with the faculty member."

In Tracey's case, he said, "He told me about (the Ramsey project). As I understand it, it's part of his scholarly work." Rowland said he had not viewed the documentary.

"(Professor Tracey's) behavior is not different in this respect than the vast number of my faculty members," Rowland said. "I don't know exactly what projects people are working on at any particular time."

Asked if Tracey crossed the line set by the one-sixth rule, Rowland, said, "I have no idea." But he said he was comfortable with the amount of time the professor spent working on it on the university's clock. He said he had no indication that Tracey was neglecting his teaching and other: regular university duties.

He defended the documentary project as "right down the pipe" of Tracey's academic specialty as a critic of U.S. media, and he pointed out that interpreting the one-sixth rule is not a simple task.

"My impression is that during this time he has worked far more than 40 hours a week at his collective duties: research, teaching and service. So if you're calculating his time under the one- sixth rule, you could be overlooking the amount of extra time he's putting into his regular duties as well as his extra duties," Rowland said. "How do you divide that up? No one keeps a clock on that."

Rowland said he believed questions of adherence to policy "detract us from the central issue, which is the quality of the press coverage of the Ramsey case and the critiques thereof."

Regents rule

Sievers acknowledged the importance of faculty outside work.

"I would rather see people being very active and out in the world and trying to do things, as long as they are getting their job done." But he had harsh words to describe the Tracey project's violation of policy, which he attributed to "sloppy deanship."

"I think we should scrupulously observe that policy. It gives everyone a black eye when a few people don't do what they're supposed to do," Sievers said. He added, "That dean's going to get a piece of my mind."

Littleton Regent Norwood Robb said he believed CU policy is sufficient to protect against abuses of the one-sixth rule.

"I think the board is precise on the policy," Robb said. If Dean Rowland doesn't know how much time was spent on Tracey's project, "He probably needs to look at how he's running his school."

Regent Kelley agreed.

"Absolutely they should be required to follow regents' rules. I would hope that the dean would look into it and make sure the time spent and the remuneration received fall within the policies of the university."

Rowland said accountability relies on more than just university policy.

"Accountability to the public in the university comes in many forms. It includes the quality of the teaching in the classroom and the merits of the research and creative work, as well as the value of the service that the faculty member renders to their profession and the community. And most of those things are measured in an informal way, on a day-to-day basis, in the ongoing professional practice of the faculty member," Rowland said.

The system's real checks and balances are found in "the quality of education the students are receiving and the quality of the discourse and public debate that the faculty member's research engenders."

'I've got nothing to hide'

Tracey said he did not know how much university time he spent on the project.

"A lot," he estimated. "It was a very complex project. I've been working 80 hours a week" on both the film and his regular CU duties. He pointed out that much of that work occurred in the summer and outside of his CU contract.

Tracey was quick to defend his work and his right to profit personally from it.

"I believe with a passion that this project is absolutely of the essence of what I do as a professor," he said. As for any profits he might earn from the project, he said, "If that's a problem for anyone, it's not a problem for me, and it's certainly not a problem for CU."

He lashed out at those who have speculated that, "We're going to make millions. That's absolute bulls--t," he said. The film was not made primarily for profit, he said.

"What I was trying to do was to use this documentary to stimulate the debate about what was happening to American journalism. That's my reason for doing this," he insisted.

He decried profiteering from the Christmas 1996 murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey, especially by those in the media whom he called the "Ramsey Stage Army," who "have made a living on every minuscule detail of the Ramsey story." It was ironic, he said, that those journalists were among the first to criticize him for attempting to profit on the Ramsey story.

In reply to a suggestion that he contribute any future profits from the film to the university or a local charity dedicated to helping the victims of child abuse, he shot back, "No way. You're crazy. Did (Thomas) Cech give his Nobel Prize?"

Gleeson said Tracey likely faces no serious disciplinary action for failing to complete the approval form.

"Similar breaches usually result in a sit-down talk with the dean or a written commentary on the evaluation," Gleeson said.

Tracey said he will complete the application for the project's approval retroactively.

"Yeah, sure. I've got nothing to hide," he said.

"If nothing else," he said of the project, "a lot more people know of CU now than they did before."

The documentary is slated to air, commercial-free, at 8 p.m. Wednesday, Aug. 5, on KUSA Channel 9. Tracey is scheduled to discuss the film with local journalists, including members of the "Ramsey Stage Army," following the broadcast.

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  Spider Web
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 05-30-2017, 08:32 PM - Forum: Broken window/ Spider web - No Replies

Some people claim the spider web is PROOF that the window WAS NOT AN ENTRY FOR AN INTRUDER!!


What many dont realize... is that a spider takes about AN HOUR to rebuild their web.



How Long Does It Take a Spider To Spin a Web and How Do Spiders Maintain Their Webs?
July 1, 2014 by Karen Hill | Filed Under: Animals

A traditional looking round web doesn’t take too long to spin, usually about an hour if the spider doesn’t take breaks.

Sounds quick, but building a web is not the hard part, maintaining it is.

After a few days, the web is not only damaged from ensnaring supper but it also has lost most of its stickiness.

A spider does construction renewal, gathering up damaged threads with its front feet while trailing new silk behind.

In this way, a spider continuously keeps its web up and running.

So if an intruder hit the spider web upon entering or exiting, she could have easily repaired the web before law enforcement/people in the house saw the broken web. Assuming the killer left right after murdering JonBenet, the spider had MORE THEN ENOUGH TIME to rebuild it!



How long does it take a spider to spin its web?
Spiders spin their webs at different speeds, and no two spider webs are the same. It takes about one hour for the average spider to construct an elaborate web of silk thread, called an orb web. An orb web is a series of wheel-shaped, concentric outlines, with spokes extending from a center. Many species of spiders weave orb webs, which are most noticeable in the morning dew. Like other webs, spiders use orb webs to capture insects for food. The orb web is the most efficient type of spider web, since it covers the greatest area with the least amount of silk. Pound for pound, spider silk is about five times stronger than steel and twice as strong as Kevlar. Spider silk also has the ability to stretch about 30 percent longer than its original length without breaking, making its threads very resilient. Still, a spider usually spins a new orb web every day to help it keep its stickiness and insect-trapping capability. Throughout the day, the spider makes frequent repairs to damaged threads.

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