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  Jaycee Dugard's experience
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-19-2017, 12:57 PM - Forum: Stun Gun - Replies (1)

The following are excerpts from the 135 pages of Dugard's grand jury testimony unsealed by Phimister:

Dugard: And all of a sudden, his hand shoots out of the car window, and I feel this shock. And I stumble back into the, into the bushes. And...I'm sorry.

Q: That's all right. Take your time.
Dugard: He gets out and I stumble back into the bushes. I'm sitting now in the bushes, trying to get away, but I feel like my whole body is — wouldn't work. It was tingly and I can't — nothing works. All of a sudden, I'm in the car, and there's something on top of me, and I feel like there's pressure on me. ... I was put on the floorboard and then something thrown on top of me, and then legs, pressure, face down. I don't know what happened after that because I think I — because I don't remember the car pulling away, or I felt like I blacked out or something.
Q: Did you ever, do you recall, during the time while you were in the car, seeing a second person in the car?
Dugard: No. But then I could hear a voice sometime later. I don't know when. The man in the front, all of a sudden, the pressure was off, like I woke up, and I could hear the car door slam like someone was getting into the front seat, the passenger side. And the person that took me was like, handing me something to — said, 'Do you want something to drink?' And then I heard voices in the front, and the man said, 'I can't believe we got away with it,' and he started laughing.


I believe she was given a direct hit with the stun gun and that caused her to "black out" in the car.  I think when JonBenet was hit in the back she was pressed into the mattress and the voltage was so high, and she was so small, she was rendered unconscious.  Remember, we see grown men fall when zapped, but they are not being held firm and can pull away from the weapon.

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  Question #1
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-18-2017, 04:37 PM - Forum: Questions for Fleet and Priscilla White - Replies (1)

PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember hearing
2 something that John Fernie was going to detain
3 Fleet because he was in no condition to be put
4 on that plane.
5 TOM HANEY: No condition due to?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He was -- and like I
7 say, I am kind of like just catching, you know,
8 wafts of these conversations. But that was my
9 first recollection. I picked up on something
10 that Fleet was not acting right. And they were
11 going to keep him from going on the private
12 plane back to Atlanta.
13 So anyway, I didn't want to think
14 too much about it, and then when we were in
15 Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla
16 standing in my mother's living room, family
17 room, you know, just kind of like this and
18 saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she
19 said, "if you would give me a few minutes of
20 your time, I could let you in on some things."
21 And I turned to her and I said,
22 "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
23 said, "I am the mother of this child. And I
24 know nothing."
25 TOM HANEY: What was she referring
1 to?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue.

My question - What would you have told her?

I really hope to see a book from these two one day with all the details.  Let them make money off the case, who cares if we get to the truth, expose the killer and find justice for all involved?

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  Mame's research
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-18-2017, 04:34 PM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - No Replies

Member since 8-20-06
10-28-06, 09:14 PM (EST)

"Fleet & Priscilla White TIMELINE"

LAST EDITED ON 10-29-06 AT 10:27 AM (EST)

Since my books are stored I unable to quickly find quotes and statements. THIS IS A VERY ROUGH DRAFT, I HAVE ONLY INCLUDED A FEW TO GET US STARTED!!! Please pitch in with dates and events...AND, comments regarding the White's and please include the dates and links if available
Fleet & Priscilla White Timeline
Missing Innocence: The JonBenet Ramsey Case
The Ramsey's, with JonBenet and their son, Burke, had Christmas dinner at the home of their best friends, Priscilla and Fleet White Jr., a mile or so away. After Ramsey had moved his computer company from Atlanta, to Boulder, in 1991, the Whites and the Ramsey's found they had much in common. Fleet White was also a successful tycoon, in the oil business. Both couples enjoyed sailing and had six yr. old girls with older brothers. Neither Patsy nor Priscilla worked, but both were committed volunteers. When John Ramsey and decided to throw his wife a surprise 40th birthday party a month earlier, on Nov.30, he turned to Priscilla to organize the event at the swank Brown Palace in Denver.

According to police reports, the Ramseys arrived home from the Whites' about 10 p.m. At 5:55 A.M. the Whites were awakened by John Ramsey, who told them to hurry right over. By 6:20 the Whites were there, joined by other friends, John and Barbara Fernie, and later by the Ramseys' minister, Father Rol Hoverstock. (Vanity Fair Article 1997)

Note: While Bardach referred to White as an "successful tycoon", John Ramsey described White's job situation in Death of Innocence, page 294,
John explains in DOI about how "newspapers would refer to Fleet as an oil magnate. His Father, FW Sr, was reported to have had a natural gas drilling company in California. He may have worked for his dad for a period of time before coming to Colorado, but as far as I know, Fleet did not work at a steady job during the time I knew him in Boulder..."

December 23
Fleet and Priscilla attend the Ramsey's Christmas party. Fleet called 911, he claims by mistake, at the Party.
From the Ramsey Book, Death Of Innocence, page 97: Patsy wrote:
"During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen, Colorado. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The Police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people at the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake. The 911 call still remains somewhat of a mystery."

December 25
4:30 - 9:00pm The Ramsey's attend Christmas dinner at the Whites. Fleet and John play with jewelry on the floor with JonBenet and Daphne.

December 26
6:20am Fleet White arrives at the Ramsey house after a call from the Ramsey's that Jonbenet is missing. DOI, pg 12

7 a.m.:
The Ramseys' pastor, Rev. Rol Hoverstock, arrived. John Fernie and Fleet White went to Burke's room and woke him up. They then proceeded to take him to the Fernie's, where they picked up the Fernie's children and then dropped all the children off at the White's.

1 p.m.:
Detective Arndt asked John Ramsey, Fleet White, and John Fernie to check the interior of the home. They started in the basement. Fleet White reportedly opened the door to the wine cellar and did not see anything. He did not turn on the light.

1:05 p.m.
John Ramsey, JonBenet's father, and Fleet White, a family friend, discover the girl's body in the basement after police recommend they search the home. Police say JonBenet was not stabbed or shot, but won't disclose how she died.

The Ramsey's moved to the Fernies home in South Boulder. Friend Pam Griffin describes White's demeanor that evening:
Presumed Guilty, author Stephen Singular Page 99-102

I once asked Griffin if she remembered anything more than what she had already told me about her visit to Patsy on the day after JonBenét's body was discovered. She said that the most visible and forceful person at the Fernies' home that day was not John Ramsey, but Fleet White, John's best friend before the murder.

"White was everywhere," she told me. "Ordering everyone around. Telling people what to do and not to do. Giving me the creeps. He didn't want me to be alone with Patsy. Didn't want me in the bedroom with her. Didn't want me talking to her as she was falling asleep. He didn't even want me to help her drink water to keep her from getting dehydrated. I was trying to assist my friend and couldn't understand why he was acting this way. Someone finally had to tell him to back off, so he took a hike and disappeared.

According to Griffin, White behaved similarly at JonBenét's memorial service at St. John's Episcopal Church the following Sunday, Patsy's fortieth birthday."

* 12/27/96:
Missing girl found dead / Six-year-old was reported kidnapped earlier in day

December 29
Vanity Fair Version
The family flew to Marietta Georgia, in a private jet, piloted by John Ramsey, for JonBenet's funeral. (It was later reported in DOI that John did not fly his plane to GA, waiting for source) Among those who went there to comfort the Ramseys that first week were Fleet and Priscilla White. Soon, however, questions and doubts began to nag at the Whites.

Fleet White phoned the Paugh house and said he wanted to come by and speak with John. When the Whites arrived, they were led into the sunroom, where Ramsey, his brother Jeff, and Don Paugh were waiting. According to an insider, Ramsey sat down next to Priscilla and began to pat her arm as if to calm her down as her husband pelted him with questions: "Why do you need all these attorneys? Why aren't you cooperating with the police?" His distress mounting, he declared, "I don't understand what you are doing." Priscilla later told friends that she had told John that going on CNN was a big mistake.

Nedra would later tell police that White was "a wild man and a lunatic." Ramsey would inform friends that "the worm had turned." According to a D.A. source, Ramsey told his lawyers and the D.A. that he regarded Fleet White, whom he had often identified as his best friend, as a prime suspect in JonBenet's murder.

In the ensuing weeks, the Ramsey team spread the word that the Whites were not to be trusted. Pam Griffin was among those who carried the message. "This man has a dark side," she told me over the phone. Pressed to explain how Fleet White could have possibly killed JonBenet, she said, "I don't think Fleet White with his two hands murdered that child. I just think he knows something." (The Whites declined to comment for this story.)


December 18:
Fleet White urged Gov. Romer to remove Alex Hunter from the case and appoint a special prosecutor. LINK NEEDED


January 7
The governor informed Fleet White that he would not interfere in the case.LINK NEEDED & MORE DETAILS

January 16
The Daily Camera publishes a letter from former Ramsey friends Fleet and Priscilla White to Gov. Roy Romer. It demands a special prosecutor be named to the Ramsey case. The governor stands by District Attorney Alex Hunter and declines to act on the request.
• 01/16/98: Romer should remove D.A. from Ramsey case
• 01/16/98: Romer rejects friends' request to replace Hunter

April 6
Fleet White wrote a letter to the president of the University of Colorado. LINK NEEDED & MORE DETAILS

May 14:
Fleet White sent a letter to the Boulder city manager complaining about the case.

June 23
Patsy Ramsey interview with BPD, June 23, 1998 (transcript)
9 TOM HANEY: In the earlier
10 interview, and I think it was the one on April
11 30 last year, the Whites' name came up as
12 because they were formerly very good friends
13 that you called that morning, but people that
14 you were now suspicious of or something about
15 their behavior.
16 Could you tell us what about them
17 has changed and what you have noticed?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I guess --
19 every --
20 TOM HANEY: Be candid.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, everything
22 that -- you know, I mean, everything. Our
23 relationship was perfectly normal and fine, and
24 like I said, there are close friends who called
25 first thing that morning. And it was a very
1 traumatic morning, obviously, for everyone
2 there. And people handled things differently,
3 and I know that -- but, suffice to say that
4 Fleet and Priscilla, Fleet probably more so,
5 just on a number of different occasions started
6 reacting very strangely.
7 TOM HANEY: Okay. How did he
8 react?
10 TOM HANEY: What did he react to.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I guess the
12 first -- let's see. The first time -- I mean,
13 you know, after we found JonBenet, I mean I was
14 just in shock and really was -- was not paying
15 too much attention to things. But the first
16 time I really realized that something was amiss
17 was when we were going to go to Atlanta for the
18 funeral on the Lockheed plane, and there was
19 some like scuttle, confusion or something, why
20 Fleet was not going on that plane. I mean our
21 close friends that had been basically -- you
22 know, I don't know what they were doing, John
23 and my girlfriends were bathing me and feeding
24 me and taking me to the bathroom. I mean I was
25 just immobile for all intents and purposes.
1 And -- and I just remember hearing
2 something that John Fernie was going to detain
3 Fleet because he was in no condition to be put
4 on that plane.
5 TOM HANEY: No condition due to?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He was -- and like I
7 say, I am kind of like just catching, you know,
8 wafts of these conversations. But that was my
9 first recollection. I picked up on something
10 that Fleet was not acting right. And they were
11 going to keep him from going on the private
12 plane back to Atlanta.
13 So anyway, I didn't want to think
14 too much about it, and then when we were in
15 Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla
16 standing in my mother's living room, family
17 room, you know, just kind of like this and
18 saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she
19 said, "if you would give me a few minutes of
20 your time, I could let you in on some things."
21 And I turned to her and I said,
22 "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
23 said, "I am the mother of this child. And I
24 know nothing."
25 TOM HANEY: What was she referring
1 to?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue.
3 I really, I mean, you know, so many times I wish
4 I would have taken her up on it to see what the
5 hell she was talking about. There was just her
6 -- you know, it was just this kind of, I know
7 what's going on here and you don't. And if you
8 give me a few minutes of your time, I could clue
9 you in.
10 TOM HANEY: But she didn't give you
11 a clue or--
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Didn't say, didn't
13 say. So that was like the second little thing.
14 So then, let's see. We were at --
15 we were at my parents, and we had different
16 friends who had come in from Colorado and my
17 friends in Atlanta were putting them up in homes
18 and what not, and my understanding is that Fleet
19 and Priscilla had been invited by my brother and
20 sister-in-law Jeff Ramsey to stay in their home.
21 So I was in bed, and somebody,
22 either my sister, or another friend who was
23 staying there or something, said that Jeff had
24 just called to my parents' home, and said that
25 Fleet was totally off the deep end, had like
1 gotten my brother-in-law and my brother-in-law
2 is -- you think my husband is docile, my
3 brother-in-law is, you know, very docile. Non-
4 confrontational. So Fleet got hold of Jeff's
5 collar, you know, like this, in his face, you
6 know, being very confrontational.
7 TOM HANEY: Is built --
9 TOM HANEY: Is Fleet a pretty good
10 size?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, he's a large
12 man. And anyway, Jeff had called and said to my
13 dad, they are on their way to your house. Do
14 you have a gun? And I mean for Jeff Ramsey to
15 say something like this in pretty wild. So I
16 just remember, you know, somebody scooping me up
17 and Burke up and my mom and all this and we went
18 downstairs to our basement where my mother had
19 set up some temporary beds and then like, you
20 know, like thrown on the beds, like "don't
21 anybody say anything" and you know, John and my
22 dad were going to try to calm them down or
23 something. You know. Just --
24 TOM HANEY: Okay. What do you mean
25 again, what did--
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, Jeff
2 was saying that Fleet is just crazy. He is
3 crazy, he is coming over there, I don't know
4 what's happened. You know, he's off his rocker.
5 TOM HANEY: Did he give you a clue
6 though? I mean here your good friends--
7 PATSY RAMSEY: See, I don't know,
8 because I wasn't -- wasn't having this --
9 TOM HANEY: The conversation?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I am like hearing
11 this thirdhand.
12 TOM HANEY: Okay.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: All I know is there
14 was like some big hubbub here about Fleet and
15 Priscilla were going nutso and they were coming
16 over and somebody just crazy, he is crazy, he is
17 coming over there, I don't know what's happened.
18 You know, he's off his rocker.
19 TOM HANEY: Did he give you a clue
20 though? I mean here your good friend's--
21 PATSY RAMSEY: See, I don't know
22 because I wasn't, I wasn't having this
23 conversation.
24 TOM HANEY: The conversation?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I am like hearing
1 this thirdhand.
2 TOM HANEY: Okay.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: All I know is this
4 was like some big hubbub here about Fleet and
5 Priscilla are going nutso and they are coming
6 over and everybody is afraid of them and
7 da-de-da-de-da.
8 TOM HANEY: So do they come over?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: They came over. I
10 do not see them, but John I think called down or
11 something, Jeff Ramsey said he did not want them
12 staying with them. I think John Ramsey and my
13 dad somehow got them to stay in a hotel or
14 something. There in Montreux (phonetic).
15 Then my dad said, you know, I don't
16 know what day this was, all these days were
17 running together. But then my father said that
18 Priscilla called, I guess they were on their way
19 back to Colorado, she called, my dad had just
20 reamed him out, said that she didn't like what
21 she saw in Atlanta one bit. She thought that
22 everything -- that all our friends were, you
23 know, hoity-toity, rich snobs and blah, blah,
24 blah. I mean, just like crazy things.
25 I mean, you know, here we are
1 mourning the death of this child, for crying out
2 loud, and she goes off on this cultural
3 ventilation or something. You know, it just
4 didn't, it didn't make sense. And then so I
5 mean my dad -- (INAUDIBLE) -- so way that was
6 kind of a little incident.
7 TOM HANEY: Makes sense.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: And then so I mean
9 my dad is one (INAUDIBLE) so anyway, that was
10 kind of a little incident. But I think some
11 other things happened that I wasn't really privy
12 to. I think John may be more aware of.
13 But then the other time that was
14 really frightening to me is, we had come back to
15 Colorado and John and I were in Father Rol's
16 office, in the church, and my dad was sitting
17 out in the little waiting area. And Father Rol
18 and John and I were praying, and Fleet White
19 burst into the door, burst into the office.
20 And he is just, his eyes are just
21 wild. And you know, I kind of did this number,
22 and he got down on his knees, and looked like --
23 and had a business card in his hand, and he was
24 leaning over to my husband saying, "you know
25 what this is, John, you know what this means,
1 John, you know what I am going to have to do
2 with this, John, I am going to have to handle
3 this my way, John."
4 I mean he was just on and on and
5 on. And I said, "Fleet, Fleet, what is it?"
6 And he handed me this business card
7 and it was a business card from some journalist
8 or something, and it had a note on the back.
9 And it said, I don't know exactly word for word,
10 but something to the effect of, you know, Mr.
11 White, there has been some question as to
12 whether it was you or John Ramsey who removed
13 the tape from JonBenet's mouth. You know. And
14 about the sequence of the basement discovery.
15 Because we had talking about this.
16 Well, he said they are after me and
17 my family now, John, I am going to have to
18 handle -- and he was just like a maniac and
19 Father Rol said to calm down and you know, he
20 said, "I am going to handle it my way, John, my
21 way, John and you know, Father Rol was just
22 trying to get them to calm down. "It's okay
23 Fleet," you know, "what do you mean by your
24 way?" You know, calm down. You know, it will
25 be okay.
1 So that was just, that just shook
2 me, you know, and then there are just -- you
3 know, may or may not know just kind of
4 subsequent things, like instead of going to the
5 governor in Colorado they went to the governor
6 of Colorado and asked that Hunter be taken off
7 the case or that he was doing a bad job or
8 something, and I mean this is like a year later,
9 you know, and I mean they are still just -- so,
10 I mean, you know, I am trying to say okay,
11 everybody was traumatized, you know. Try to put
12 my shoe on the other foot.
13 If had been Daphne, if I had been
14 there, what would I have done, you know. But I
15 mean, my God, you know, it's my child, and I
16 have been trying to get my family back to some
17 semblance of normalcy. My child in the school
18 and friends and you know. And I don't read
19 newspapers, and I can't watch television,
20 because it you know, value else me and surfaces
21 it all over again. You know, and then to hear
22 these people who are not even related and they
23 are going to the governor and trying to you know
24 I mean just kind of weird to me.
25 Maybe I am reading things into it.
1 I don't know. I can't imagine, you know, that
2 anybody that has children -- you know, when you
3 have children you know what a precious life that
4 is, and you know what a -- you know, I can't
5 imagine that you can do that to another child.
6 I can't -- I can't bring myself to think that
7 they would have actually done this. But
8 somebody did it. You know.
9 And we have been told that it's a
10 lady that knew us, knew we were leaving, knew we
11 were there. The dog wasn't there, knew we
12 didn't use the alarm, you know, so --
13 TOM HANEY: And these were all
14 things that the Whites would have known?
16 TOM HANEY: So do you suspect
17 Fleet?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God, you know, I
19 just -- you know, I -- I guess in a way I look
20 at everybody as a suspect. And with this
21 erratic behavior it sounds pretty freaky to me.
22 Last night we were reading through
23 some paperwork or something, and I don't
24 remember whether somebody interviewed Fleet and
25 it was something that was like, wait a minute,
1 that's (INAUDIBLE) I mean to -- but he knew --
2 he knew so much detail about the letter. It's
3 just something about, and this has been
4 somebody, I forget who -- I am rambling.
5 Somebody had interviewed Fleet and
6 then had written up a report about their
7 findings and that he seemed to know almost word
8 for word the ransom letter and he commented
9 about how the structure of it was so well tied
10 together. I mean, I have read the ransom
11 letter, I couldn't tell you what the structure
12 was, you know. He seemed like really interested
13 or something. It seemed unusual to me.
14 So I mean, it would be a horrible
15 blow if I do find out that it was somebody that
16 was that close to us. But it was somebody and
17 there is, I guess -- I guess could be anybody.
18 TOM HANEY: What is your current
19 relationship with the Whites?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: We have not -- we
21 have not spoken.
22 TOM HANEY: When is the last time?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well I -- when we
24 left town, right in the mild the incident, I
25 remember we were staying with the Stines, Glen
1 and Susan Stine, Fleet White went in to Glen
2 Stine's office at the university, and leaned
3 across the table, demanding to let the Stines
4 see us. And Glen Stine said Fleet, you know,
5 settle down.
6 TOM HANEY: Fleet wanted the Stines
7 to let them (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS)?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: He was just saying
9 that the Stines were keeping us away from them,
10 which wasn't the case. But he was going there,
11 he went into the vice president of the
12 university and (INAUDIBLE). You know what,
13 irrational behavior.
14 TOM HANEY: Is this--
15 PATSY RAMSEY: So anyway, before I
16 left town, (INAUDIBLE) before I left town I took
17 a little teddy bear up to this kid and left a
18 note, little teddy bear, and left a note, opened
19 a card that said you know, we are leaving town
20 or something, JonBenet loves you and whatever.
21 I don't know.
22 And then subsequently I had written
23 a couple of notes, I found a picture of Daphne,
24 that I sent to her and I think I wrote a note,
25 there was a story, one of the tabloids had their
1 photographs, said Ramseys accusing best friends
2 or something, please don't believe these
3 horrible stories, you know.
4 But you know, not (INAUDIBLE) the
5 next thing I heard that they were down in the
6 governor's office (INAUDIBLE).
7 TOM HANEY: This behavior that you
8 have talked about with Fleet pounded on the desk
9 and things, is that out of character for him or
10 is he kind of like that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean as far as I
12 ever saw, because he was, he didn't -- I don't
13 know exactly what he did for a living. He was
14 not working a nine to five job. You know, I
15 think he was in California, had been in the oil
16 kind of business, so he said, but so he was
17 around the house a lot. He took the kids to
18 school. He dressed them. He -- we called him
19 affectionately Mr. Mom and he just said he was
20 taking a couple of years kind of hiatus to
21 figure it out and get something else going.
22 (The video portion of the tape
23 stopped). So he was always just very loving and
24 he was kind of like a lovable giant kind of, you
25 know, big guy, but just very tender and very --
1 sweet guy, you know. So this, you know,
2 especially that time when he was in Father Rol's
3 office and his eyes were just crazed. I mean I
4 was just staying there going "oh, my God, what
5 has gotten into him."
6 So yes, yes. You know. There is a
7 flicker, you know.
8 TOM HANEY: Prior to the death,
9 what was Fleet's behavior like, especially
10 regarding JonBenet?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: He, I mean, adored
12 our children. You know. They played together a
13 lot. They were at our house, you know, a lot.
14 My children were at their house playing. They
15 had been up to the lake with us, a number of
16 times, for two, three weeks at a time.
17 (The video portion resumed.)
18 PATSY RAMSEY: You know we were I
19 mean --
20 TOM HANEY: Was there anything in
21 this prior behavior that looking back now seems
22 unusual?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Priscilla was
24 never crazy about me doing this whole pageant
25 with JonBenet, she thought that was just totally
1 unnecessary, because she said you know, it's
2 just not the thing to do. Well, you know, I had
3 grown up doing it, I enjoyed it, I had a lot of
4 friends who had done it. I had very good
5 experience with it. So that's what I brought to
6 the table. My daughter was a performer, she was
7 beautiful, she was outgoing, and flourished in
8 that type of an environment. Daphne was not.
9 You know.
10 So Priscilla would oftentimes say
11 to me, you know, you just, you shouldn't do
12 that, you know, that's not a good thing to
13 happen.
14 I thought, you know, well, you
15 raise your children the way you do and we don't
16 all raise our children the same. So you know,
17 kind of looking back at that and think, you
18 know, did that really get to her or something.
19 I don't know (INAUDIBLE).
20 TOM HANEY: Was there anything else
21 in either of -- either's behavior prior to the
22 death that you like you said looking back now,
23 outside of the pageant thing?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I mean John said
25 -- he and Fleet sailed together, and they were
1 taking -- and Fleet has been sailing for years.
2 I mean he sailed big yachts in the Pacific Ocean
3 and da-de-da-de-da, and so John was getting
4 ready for this Mackinaw Island race and he Fleet
5 were going to move our sailboat from Charlevoix
6 to wherever this race was going to be held, I
7 forget where, Chicago or something.
8 Well, they were in the moves and
9 were pulling into a harbor someplace, and had a
10 big wave and somehow the ropes got spun up in
11 the propeller, kicked off the engine, and they
12 were heading for the --
13 TOM HANEY: Dock?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: The wall. The ocean
15 wall or whatever they call that wall.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: The shore?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: The wall, whatever.
18 And he said Fleet -- and Fleet was supposed to
19 be the experienced yachtsman, you know, he said
20 Fleet just panicked, you know. I mean he was
21 just, John said he was really surprised because
22 I mean here is John who is certainly the layman,
23 and he immediately was trying to, you know, turn
24 the thing backwards and trying to get it out or
25 some, you know, but Fleet, he said Fleet just
1 totally dropped his cool.
2 And long story short, somebody in
3 the yacht club saw them in trouble and the Coast
4 Guard came out and pulled them away from the
5 wall just in time. But John, kind of John's
6 first tip-off that, you know, he wasn't a -- as
7 capable under fire as maybe he would have
8 thought.
9 TOM HANEY: Did they -- did they
10 have words that day over it or was there some
11 problem or just like--
12 PATSY RAMSEY: No. You know, I
13 mean this was one of those stories you talk
14 about over a beer, you know (INAUDIBLE).
15 TOM HANEY: But nothing else?
17 TOM HANEY: Anything else about the
18 Whites?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Just I mean, we
20 just, their children were virtually the same
21 age. I just thought we will be life-long
22 friends, because, you know, I enjoyed her, John
23 enjoyed him, the kids had each other. I mean it
24 was just a perfect -- we liked to do a lot of
25 the same things, they seemed to have
1 discretionary income to be able to go places
2 although in that respect John pointed out that
3 all the yacht races and all that stuff was
4 always on our tab. I didn't really pay
5 attention to who was paying for what, but we
6 would pay for the crew and everybody.
7 I always got the impression that
8 Fleet and Priscilla had either family money or
9 something like that. You know. But John said
10 when it came down to actually, you know,
11 splitting it or splitting the hotel or
12 something, that never really happened. So --
13 TRIP DeMUTH: How long did you know
14 them?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: We met the summer I
16 came back from the lake the first time, so that
17 would have been like September-ish of '94.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: You called Fleet Mr.
19 Mom. Why do you do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Just because he was
21 at home all the time. He took the kids to
22 school and he went to the classroom and he, I
23 mean -- she called him her live-in. Their
24 live-in nanny.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Did Priscilla work?
2 TRIP DeMUTH: So was she home most
3 of the time also?
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Who would supervise
6 JonBenet and Burke when they would go over to
7 the Whites' house?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Both of them.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: Were there any
10 excursions or outings that Fleet White took your
11 children on as well as his children?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I am sure there
13 probably were.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Any that you recall?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Not right off the
16 top of my head. I mean we went biking, out on
17 the bike trails once all together, all of us.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Fleet ever
19 baby-sit the children?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I knew one
21 time in particular John, we were all up at the
22 lake, up at Charles Lake and John had to fly to
23 New York to do some business, New York City, and
24 Melinda was up there and the Whites. And
25 Priscilla said -- she said, "John is going to
1 New York, let's go shopping for the day."
2 And I said, "who would keep the
3 kids?"
4 She said, "oh, Fleet can take care
5 of the kids."
6 I said, "oh, you're kidding."
7 She said, "no, come on, it would be
8 really fun, let's just go over there for the
9 day." I said okay.
10 So Melinda and Priscilla and myself
11 and Mike Archuleta and John flew to Manhattan,
12 John did his business there, and Priscilla and
13 Melinda and I and Mike Archuleta shopped around
14 for the day and then we flew back to Charles
15 Lake. When I got home, the house was a
16 disaster.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: How many times, how
18 often would Fleet be the baby-sitter for the
19 kids, that you can remember? Can you give me
20 any idea about that? Seldom, never, often?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I would say
22 when if my kids were over there, it would not be
23 unusual that he would be the baby-sitter,
24 because she might go running around or whatever
25 and he would sit or vice versa.
1 TRIP DeMUTH: And how often were
2 your kids over at his home?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe once a week.
4 We hadn't seen them a whole lot that fall,
5 because our children were going to different
6 schools. And that was a little sticking point
7 with Priscilla.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: How did JonBenet feel
9 about Fleet? Did she ever indicate anything?
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Seemed fine?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Thanks, Tom.
14 TOM HANEY: When is the last time
15 you had any contact, personal contact? You said
16 you went to the fair but--
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably that
18 episode in Father Rol's office.
19 TOM HANEY: Can you pin that down,
20 approximately when that would have been?
21 Ballpark figure.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, early '97,
23 February-ish, probably.
August 17:
Fleet White sent another letter to the press, titled "To the people of Colorado"
b]Aug. 17
Former Ramsey friend Fleet White writes a second letter to Gov. Roy Romer, asking for a special prosecutor in the Ramsey case.
08/20/98: Ramsey friend again calls for prosecutor
08/20/98: Fleet White's letter
Phillips wants special prosecutor
Bench Warrant for Contempt of Court
Hearing re-scheduled for Thursday July 19, 2001

Fleet Russell White, Jr, 52 of Boulder, Colorado received a subpeona to testify at the trial attorney Thomas Miller on Wednesday, June 13, 2001. Thomas Miller was charged by a grand jury with commercial bribery for accompanying Globe tabloid editor, Craig Lewis to offer money for the ransom note in the Ramsey case.

Fleet White did not appear for the trial. District Judge Jane Tidball had charged White with contempt of court and issued a bench warrant. A jury acquitted Miller on the bribery charge on Thursday, June 14, 2001, but Judge Tidball said Miller might have appealed a conviction based on White's failure to show up at his trial.

On Monday, June 18, 2001 Fleet White was arrested on contempt of court charges when he showed up at the Jefferson County courthouse to inquire about a warrant that had been issued for him. White was processed into the Jefferson County jail, then released to his wife, Priscilla, who posted the $1,000 bond.

A hearing was re-scheduled for Monday, June 25, 2001 so White could obtain an attorney. White appeared without a lawyer and asked to read a statement,

"I have respect for this court," White began. "In this case, however, I did not have so much respect for this case in which I'd been subpoenaed." He said avoiding testimony in the Miller trial was "in the best interest of the ongoing JonBenet Ramsey investigation, the best interest of the Colorado justice system and, most importantly, the best interests of my family."

Friday, June 29th was Fleet White's hearing extension where he appeared with his lawyer, Craig Truman. A Jefferson County judge formally charged Fleet White with contempt of court after White ignored two subpoenas in a criminal case. A new scheduled hearing was then set for Thursday, July 19, 2001.
August 24:
An additional letter is sent by Fleet White to the press.
In a letter to "the people of Colorado," Fleet White raises questions about Lt. Gov. Gail Schoettler's relationship with John and Patsy Ramsey.
• 08/25/98: Fleet White claims bias in Ramsey case
• 08/20/98: Fleet White's letter

September 1:
Fleet White wrote letter to Boulder City Council.

December 28
From Peter Boyles Show,
Jeff Rutledge, writer for Penthouse, states that Dan Glick tried to get him to pursue Fleet White as a suspect


Quotes about Fleet & Priscilla White

January 17:
Fleet White wrote a letter to the Board of Regents.
February 26:
Whites call book pack of lies
Daily Camera
February 27
Therapist backs client who claims to have JonBenet murder information
SAN LUIS OBISPO, Calif. -- A private therapist said Friday that she stands behind her client who claims to have crucial information to help investigators of the death of JonBenet Ramsey.
Full Story
March 14
Ramseys: Killer may be familiar with family
Pair urges search of 'inner circle'
John and Patsy Ramsey suggested that police look to their "inner circle" to find their daughter's killer, perhaps someone who was familiar with the family and may be a pedophile, according to transcripts of an interview released Monday.
Full Story

May 16J onBenet investigation finds no child sex ring
Police investigating slaying checked out theory put forward by California woman
BOULDER — Police said Monday they have found no evidence to support a California woman's theory that JonBenet Ramsey was killed by a child sex ring.
Full Story

September 6
Criminal libel being reviewed over Ramsey coverage
Boulder Daily Camera
A Boulder County district judge has appointed a Pueblo prosecutor to review a case that alleges criminal libel by news media covering the unsolved slaying of JonBenet Ramsey.
Full Story

August 1:
Fleet and Priscilla White file criminal libel suit.

August 10:
Several news organizations and journalists are targets of a Boulder police investigation into whether they criminally libeled Ramsey murder case witness Fleet White. Denver lawyer Tom Kelley, a specialist in libel and other First Amendment issues, said Friday the criminal libel statute has never been used against a news organization or journalist.

Criminal-libel inquiry targets journalists in Ramsey case"

September 6
Criminal libel being reviewed over Ramsey coverage

November 19
Fleet & Priscilla White Letter to CU Board of Regents

November 14:
Fleet White wrote a letter to the editor endorsing Dave Sanderson.


April 21:
Fleet White asked the Colorado Court of Appeals to overturn an order that ended an investigation in which he sought criminal charges against journalists who wrote stories mentioning him in the JonBenet Ramsey slaying.

May 5:
Lawyer to stand trial
GOLDEN — A Jefferson County district judge has refused to throw out criminal charges against a Boulder lawyer accused of trying to buy the JonBenét Ramsey ransom note.

May 26
Former Ramsey Friend May Be Jailed

June 29:
Former Ramsey friend Fleet White Jr. charged with contempt of court for ignoring two subpoenas in a criminal case related to the JonBenét Ramsey homicide.

Oct. 25:
Former Ramsey friend Fleet White Jr. is sentenced to 30 days in jail for ignoring subpoenas in connection with a case related to the JonBenét Ramsey homicide.


July 4:
Fleet White filed a lawsuit in District Court asking a judge to order the Boulder Police Department to turn over numerous documents related to the investigation. He was seeking documents pertaining to a claim by a California woman that serious crimes had been committed against her when she was a child by Fleet White and members of his family. The Boulder police had dismissed her claims.
November 21
Part of JonBenet Ramsey file made available to public


April 16:
Fleet White filed a motion claiming that Mary Keenan failed to prosecute whoever leaked information from grand jury proceedings in the summer of 1999.

April 21:
Fleet White asked Gov. Bill Owens to assign a special prosecutor to the JonBenet Ramsey murder and remove Mary Keenan from her position as Boulder County District Attorney. The governor said he would stand by a commission's findings in 1999 that recommended against a special prosecutor.

May 2:
Fleet White filed another suit demanding that a hearing be held ordering Jefferson County District Attorney Dave Thomas to explain why he failed to prosecute Globe tabloid reporter Craig Lewis.

May 16
White turns his focus to Keenan

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  From Steve Thomas' notes
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-18-2017, 11:28 AM - Forum: December 26th - Replies (14)

The things I am posting now come from a copy of Steve Thomas' notes that he had put in a sort of timeline.  I will just concern myself with the 26th of December in this thread.  Using other sources, I hope posters will help make this a complete account of that day, things reported.  After we can weed out the things that clearly were bits of misinformation - - clear out some myths, point out what may have been misreported because the author wanted to push a certain point of view.

Again, posters are encouraged to add information and/or discuss what is posted.  The pages I have are clearly marked ST0000 then the page number - I will attribute each notation to his report.

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  from Steve Thomas' notes
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-18-2017, 09:04 AM - Forum: Fleet and Priscilla White - No Replies

Within approximately 10-15 minutes of his arrival, Fleet White searched the basement of the Ramsey residence.  He noticed the lights were on, saw the broken window in the train room and looked for broken glass  and found a small piece of glass.  

The latch on the window was in the unlocked position and his impression was that the window was closed.  He looked in the wine cellar but could not see anything and went back upstairs.

What is written above is EXACTLY what Thomas had in his notes (time line printed out 6/23/1997)

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  15 years after
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-16-2017, 03:21 PM - Forum: Jeffrey Scott Shapiro - Replies (8)

My Search for JonBenet Ramsey's Killer – a 15th Anniversary Retrospective
By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro
Published December 26, 2011

Nearly 15 years ago, I was recruited by the Globe tabloid to investigate the murder of JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado.
My story was chronicled in Lawrence Schiller’s New York Times bestseller, “Perfect Murder, Perfect Town,” which featured my tale as a cub reporter immersed in the most sensational child murder case in American history.

During my time on the JonBenet Ramsey case, I tracked down the origin of the murder weapon, infiltrated the Ramsey’s church, spent nights tracking intruder suspects, worked for the Boulder Police Department as a confidential informant, had secret conversations with District Attorney Alex Hunter, and made presentations to the F.B.I. I even became acquainted with John and Patsy Ramsey.

For several years, I secretly hoped I could prove the Ramseys were innocent. Not only did I feel compassion for them in the wake of relentless media attacks, my interaction with them forced me to recognize them as real people instead of mere names in newspaper print.

In 2006 however, after Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer, I came to terms with the fact that the most compelling evidence suggested that she was somehow involved in the death of her daughter – even if it was just an accident covered up to look like an intentional killing.

When the Ramseys woke up the morning of December 26, 1996, they allegedly found a three-page ransom note left on the spiral staircase of their home demanding the odd sum of $118,000.

It was signed, “Victory! S.B.T.C.”

In my opinion, the handwriting in the ransom note had striking similarities to samples of Patsy’s that I’d collected over the years, and there were also what I considered to be coded messages in the note that had special significance for Patsy.
Many reporters assumed the $118,000 ransom demand was somehow connected to the $118,000 bonus John Ramsey coincidentally received that year from his company, Access Graphics, but what most people do not know is that the number 118 had a sacred meaning to Patsy.

As a devoutly religious woman who had relied on Christian faith healing, two of Patsy’s favorite books on the matter held the key.

In 1994, the Colorado Woman’s Daily did a cover story on Patsy in which she admitted that she was relying on Christian faith healing to overcome her illness. In that article, Patsy said she relied heavily on a spiritual book by Dodie Osteen called, “Healed of Cancer.”

Osteen wrote in her book that she recited Psalm 118, Verse 17 every night before going to sleep over and over again. It read: “I shall not die, but live and declare the works of the Lord.”

Patsy’s neighbor, Betty Barnhill referred another book to me that she had loaned Patsy called “Be Healed,” by Marilyn Hickey.

In the second paragraph of the very first page, the author also reiterated the importance of reciting Psalm 118 regularly.

It was undeniably clear to me that the number 118 had a deeply profound importance in Patsy’s life, and so the appearance of this odd number in the ransom note was unlikely to be a coincidence.

What was most interesting about Psalm 118 however, was not Verse 17 – it was Verse 27, which read: “Bind the sacrifice with chords unto the horns of the altar.”

When JonBenet was murdered on Christmas night she was struck violently across the head with an unknown blunt instrument and asphyxiated to death with a white, nylon chord, which bound her wrists together.

The ending of the ransom note was signed, “Victory! S.B.T.C.”

Some journalists erroneously believed that phrase was a war reference to John Ramsey’s training in the Philippines at Subic Bay Naval Base (they believed it could mean Subic Bay Training Center).

During my biblical research however, I learned that the word ‘Victory’ had a very special meaning to some Christians in that it represented Christ’s victory over Satan.

According to Patsy’s books, when it came to Christian faith healing, it specifically meant one’s victory over their illness, the cause of which was also believed to be Satan.

In that 1994 magazine article, Patsy appeared on the cover holding a cross hanging from her neck. She told the reporter that her reverend, Rol Hoverstock gave her the cross, and that she believed it saved her life.

I have always, unequivocally believed that the S.B.T.C. acronym meant, “Saved By The Cross.”

I then tried to imagine – if a deeply Christian woman wanted to make it appear that an intruder had killed her daughter on Christmas night, what kind of person would she envision as the killer?

Who would she want to blame it on?

To me, the answer was obvious.

During the 1980’s and 1990’s, many people believed stories about Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA). Typically, SRA involved the attempted kidnapping of children for sexual molestation and sacrifice, and in some stories, children were strangled or tied up.
SRA proved to be nothing more than media made hype, but it caused a worldwide moral panic  for several years, especially within Christian communities and among parents. It even resulted in false criminal prosecutions such as the California based McMartin pre-school trial.

It is my firm belief that JonBenet’s killer was a deeply religious person who was calling out to God for help in a hysterical panic after the little girl died, someone who was trying to convince themselves that Satan was responsible for their actions.
Who would believe such a delusion?

Someone who believed their illness was caused by Satan, someone who read books that blamed every bad worldly occurrence on the dark angel; someone deeply religious who actually believed there were Satanists out there and knew about Satanic Ritual Abuse; someone who thought if they staged the murder to look like a cult killing, police may believe that’s what it was, unaware of the fact that the SRA phenomenon had already been widely discredited within law enforcement circles.

In fact, when police first arrived at the Ramsey house and searched it the morning JonBenet went missing, they found a bible open on John Ramsey's desk open to Psalm 35 -- a passage about being falsely accused of a crime.

I wasn’t the only one who felt that religion somehow played into the cover up of the murder.

Several years after lead detective Steve Thomas publicly professed his unequivocal belief that Patsy was the killer, another investigator, James Kolar examined the case.

Kolar, concluded that Patsy was the killer because many of the religious statements she made to the media after JonBenet’s death mirrored the types of deeply religious statements Susan Smith made after she killed her own children.

After Kolar made his presentation to Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy, she did the unthinkable by releasing a written statement clearing the Ramseys. Lacy however, was not the original district attorney who investigated the crime, Alex Hunter was, and Hunter had always told me in private that he believed Patsy was the only logical suspect – as did almost all my sources in the Boulder Police Department, Colorado Bureau of Investigations and F.B.I.

Shortly after Lacy’s announcement that she exonerated the Ramseys, I wrote a piece for Fox News Opinion explaining why I believed she had made a fatal mistake. Since her successor Stan Garnett took over, law enforcement officials have resumed investigating their original theory that Patsy was involved.

My translation of the ransom note does not explain everything that happened Christmas night in 1996 at 755 15th Street in Boulder, Colorado. It does not explain the fact that a panel of expert pediatricians told police they believed JonBenet’s hymen demonstrated ongoing, prior, sexual abuse.

It also does not explain away the miniscule foreign DNA that experts found commingled in JonBenet’s blood, located in her underpants – a piece of evidence cherished by intruder theorists who insist it is proof her killer was an intruder.
But as former LAPD Detective Mark Fuhrman once told me: not everything in a murder case is going to add up. You have to look at the totality of the evidence.

As much as I’d love to believe that DNA was not an unrelated, accidental transfer and that Patsy was completely innocent, I cannot. In addition, I do not believe that any other member of the Ramsey family was involved in JonBenet’s death or the cover up of her murder, because neither proposition is what the totality of the evidence suggests.

Finally, there were personal observations I made that led me to think Patsy could have been involved.

One summer day in 1997 I sat beside the Ramseys in church only a few months after JonBenet’s passing. At one point, the reverend, Rol Hoverstock put his hand on John’s shoulder and compassionately whispered to him, “You’re a good man, John. I know you didn’t do this.”

Minutes later, when he walked by Patsy sitting alone in an empty pew, the two made eye contact, but instead of greeting her as he did John, he angrily looked away and drifted right past her.

That stunned me.

Later, John Ramsey wandered into an empty children’s playroom as if he were collecting memories from his daughter’s past, and Patsy quietly looked at him from a distance, and then burst into tears. I will never know how or why JonBenet’s death began, but I sincerely believe that losing JonBenet brought Patsy excruciating pain. When people have cheered for her prosecution, I have felt compassion for her as well as other family members who have endured this tragedy.

From time to time, I pray for JonBenet, but I have also prayed that Patsy Ramsey’s tired, heartbroken soul has finally found peace on the other side.

Jeffrey Scott Shapiro is an investigative journalist who has researched the JonBenet Ramsey murder case for nearly 15 years.

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  From June, 1998 interview
Posted by: jameson245 - 02-16-2017, 03:11 PM - Forum: Hi-Tec footwear - Replies (6)

(PR 06-23-1998 Pg0309) Trip DeMuth asks Patsy, "Have you ever heard of the Hi-Tech brand footwear before?" Patsy answers, "I have heard that, this name is, you know, has come up. But I" Trip DeMuth asks, "How about prior to JonBenet's death?" Patsy replies, "No. Never heard of it" Trip DeMuth asks Patsy a second time, "Never heard of it prior to JonBenet's death?" Patsy replies, "No. Anytime I go in the shoe store I kind of look and see, you know, if there is a Hi-Tech." Trip DeMuth asks, "Have you ever found any?" Patsy replies, "No. I mean, is that like a brand name or is that a description?"

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  JMK handwriting comparison
Posted by: BIZ - 02-14-2017, 03:30 PM - Forum: Handwriting - Replies (3)

Sample of Handwriting Comparison:
Can be seen better at this link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=john+mark+karr+handwriting+sample&tbm=isch&tbo=u&sour ce=univ&sa=X&ei=GojoUpazMYjc2gWozICQBg&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1190&bih=665

Nancy Grace interview with Don Lehew 2006 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...ng.01.html 

GRACE: OK. Let`s show the viewers what really stopped me in my tracks when I saw this because I find his intruder theory to be crazy, wacky and unbelievable, but you`ve got to see this. Do you have that graph for me?
The comparisons between the ­­ OK, we`ll start at the top. "Will" ­­ that is from the high school yearbook. Notice the curving in the parallel "L`s." "Still" ­­ got it in the ransom note. "All" ­ ­ the "a" with the umbrella, "a," umbrella, still the curved parallel "l`s." "Excellent" ­­ and I`m looking at the "t." Catch this for me, Dusty (ph). If you see the "t" has a tail. There`s a tail here. There`s a tail here in the ransom note. Same thing in these "t`s". 

They`ve got tails and umbrellas over the "a." The umbrella over the "a" very unusual. Really unusual is the teardrop "d," as in "dog," "d" ­­ "around" and "delivery adequate." This is years later. The "w," the same.
And very importantly, the "a."You`ve all heard of handwriting analysis. Joining us tonight is a veteran handwriting comparison expert. His name, Don Lehew, and he believes Karr did, in fact, write the ransom note. Mr. Lehew, thank you for being with us. 

GRACE: Sir, you have taken a look at not only the ransom note ­­ how many pages was that thing? I`ve got it right here. Let`s see ­­ one, two, three, and then there was the practice ransom note. That should give the police pretty good fodder to make a handwriting comparison. You`ve looked at that and his current known handwriting. What do you think?
LEHEW: I looked at that. I looked at a little of his known handwriting, and I also looked at handwriting from back when he was ­­ in his high school yearbook.
GRACE: And what did you see?
LEHEW: I found significant comparison documents that were adequate to convince me that he is the one that wrote the ransom note.
GRACE: Well, what really got me ­­ and Elizabeth, when you can, pull this up for the viewers. At first, I thought it was all bogus and there`s no way this guy was even remotely involved except in his own dreams. But if you take a look at his "d" specifically, the "a" specifically, with the umbrella over it, I find ­­ look ­­ there you go. Thanks, Liz. Take a look at that. To find the umbrella over the "a" is not that ­­ you don`t often find that. And the "d" ­­ I don`t know if we have the "d," but the "d" is like an upside­down candy cane. It`s a very unusual marking LEHEW: That`s true.
GRACE: And what do you make of it?
LEHEW: Well, that`s part of what we look at to make the comparison to make the match on the handwriting. The lower case "l`s" are a little bit strange, to say the least. They`re not the typical lower case "l." And certainly, the "a" and the "d" are out of character from what we learned in school, typically. The "w" is a good match. And the lower case "t" has got a tail that comes off of the ­­ off into the right in both in the known and the questioned document.
GRACE: Don, when you make a handwriting comparison, how many similarities do you look for?
LEHEW: Well, in this case, as many as I could find. 

37 37 

38 38 
GRACE: How many similarities does it take before you will deem it a match?
LEHEW: I don`t have a specific number. It`s kind of like fingerprints. They don`t have a specific number, and neither do we. But I like to get at least 10 or better, and once I`ve got 10 or better, I`m pretty convinced. 

Handwriting experts point finger at Karr
'At least a dozen traits' link ransom note and yearbook, he says Lou Kilzer, Rocky Mountain News
Tuesday, August 22, 2006

A well­known national handwriting expert said Monday he is 99.9 percent certain John Mark Karr wrote the ransom note found near the scene of JonBenét Ramsey's murder.
"Most guys are riding the fence," said Curt Baggett, the Texas­based co­founder of the School of Forensic Document Examination. "But there are at least a dozen traits that match up perfectly, when comparing a (high school) yearbook signed by Karr and the ransom note."

Some of those traits are fairly common, while others are rare, he said. That there are so many similarities pushes the odds up into the seven digits.
To put it another way, Baggett said, the "chances are a million­to­ one" that someone other than Karr wrote the ransom note.

GRACE: OK, let me rephrase it. I`m a JD, not a DDS. When you say it`s a match, how many matches do you have? How many points of match do you have?
LEHEW: OK. You`ve actually asked two questions, Nancy. In this case, I had 13 letters that matched significantly. Typically, in a forgery, you are looking for differences, whereas in this case, I was looking for similarities. 

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  Linguistic Report for JMK, Patsy, Norma Files and Patricia Letters
Posted by: BIZ - 02-14-2017, 03:17 PM - Forum: Linguistics - Ransom Note - Replies (1)

This highly regarded linguist analyzed Patsy, JMK, Nancy aka Norma Files and the Patricia Letters against the ransom note. Her findings are scientific, not opinion based since they are put through a computer. 
The Patricia Letters were included since both Lou Smit and the Ramsey's believed the author could be the killer of JonBenet. These were various letters written to close case followers, media and investigators by a person pretending to be Patsy. 
JMK and Norma Files were included in this comparison because both of them professed to have written the ransom note. 
Patsy insists she did NOT write the note yet some in BPD believed she was the author. 
The findings were that Both Patsy and Norma Files could be completely eliminated. 
The findings were that both JMK and the author of the Patricia Letters were one in the same
The findings were that JMK was that JMK was the author of the ransom note.

Carole Chaski:
Given the candidate pool of Patsy Ramsey, Nancy and John Mark Karr documents
prior to 2000, (including the Tracey emails), the statistical procedure
using discriminant function analysis with leave- one-out cross-validation)
obtains a model with 100% accuracy. This means that each Patsy document was
tested as an unknown and returned to the Patsy class; each Nancy document
was tested as an unknown and returned to the Nancy class, and each John Mark
Karr document was tested as an unknown and returned to the John Mark Karr
class. This statistical model, at 100% cross-validated accuracy, is
therefore very good at recognizing Patsy's, Nancy's and Karr's documents.
This statistical model is then used to classify the unknown document, the
ransom note. The ransom note is classified as John Mark Karr's.

Given the candidate pool of Patsy Ramsey, Patricia and John Mark Karr
documents prior to 2000, including the Tracey emails), the statistical
procedure obtains a model of 58.3% accuracy. This model is not accurate
enough to make a predictive classification (it is just a bit higher than
chance). In my experience in validation testing of this authorship
identification method, extremely low model accuracy usually indicates that
there is a mixture in the data. Therefore, I combined the Patricia and John
Mark Karr documents prior to 2000, including the Tracey emails.

Given the candidate pool of Patsy Ramsey and the combined dataset of
Patricia and John Mark Karr documents prior to 2000, including the Tracey
emails), the statistical procedure obtains a model of 100% accuracy. Out of
these two potential authors, the ransom note is classified as Patricia/John
Mark Karr's.

I then tested the Patricia/John Mark Karr excluding the Tracey emails
document against the Patsy Ramsey documents. Again, the statistical model
obtained 100% cross-validated accuracy, and the ransom note is classified as
Patricia/John Mark Karr's.

I conducted 16 tests, most using pairwise data, in total, but these are the
most important results. It is my opinion that:
John Mark Karr and Patricia are one author, Nancy can at this time and in
this author pool be excluded as the author of the ransom note, Patsy Ramsey
can at this time and in this author pool be excluded as the author of the
ransom note, and John Mark Karr cannot at this time and in this author pool
be excluded as the author of the ransom note.

The method cannot predict if the document was authored by an author outside
the author pool; the method can only attach the questioned document to one
of the authors in the candidate pool. This is the state of the art in
linguistic authorship identification and a limitation which no one has yet
solved (be very wary of claims otherwise). Therefore it is extremely
important that all possible candidates be included in the author pool, and
that testing be done on each one in relation to all the others.

Attached Files
.pdf   ChaskiCroghanRamseyPreliminaryReportJuly252008.pdf (Size: 19.46 KB / Downloads: 9)
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  Leopold and Loeb ransom note
Posted by: BIZ - 02-14-2017, 03:05 PM - Forum: Linguistics - Ransom Note - Replies (3)

The Loeb's owned a summer home in Charlevoix as did the Ramsey's.

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