Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - Printable Version +- Forums (https://webbsleuths.org) +-- Forum: Ramsey Discussion (https://webbsleuths.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=5) +--- Forum: Stun Gun (https://webbsleuths.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=27) +--- Thread: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory (/showthread.php?tid=64)

Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - Summer Dawn - 01-30-2017 More than any other evidence, Detective Lou Smit believes that small marks left on JonBenet's face and back, prove that an intruder killed JonBenet.  Examining autopsy photos, Smit noticed unusual sets of abrasions on JonBenet's back and face. Smit wondered if they had been made by a stun gun--an unlikely weapon for a parent to use on a child. Smit measured the marks and discovered they matched a brand of stun gun called the Air Taser. : approximately 3.5 centimeters. Smit believed a stun gun was used to incapacitate JonBenet in order to move her to the basement. Smit believes only an intruder would need to use one. "There is no reason at all for the parents to have a stun gun to help stage the murder of their daughter," he says. "There's nothing to indicate the Ramseys ever owned a stun gun."  . Dr. Michael Dobersen, a stun gun expert and coroner for neighboring Arapahoe County, also believes the marks on JonBenet were left by a stun gun. To prove it, he used one on the skin of an anesthetized pig. "The marks are similar in size, shape and color and are a certain distance apart," he says.  While there are some minor differences, both Doberson and Smit believe the experiment confirms a stun gun was used. RE: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - jameson245 - 02-02-2017 The more distinct the marks are, the better contact had been made. The marks on JonBenet's face are different because the contact was not good, the electricity literally "danced" and left a larger circle of injury. RE: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - jameson245 - 02-19-2017 Steve Tuttle is the spokesperson for Air Taser. At first he said the marks on JonBenet could not be from his stun gun because if she was hit with it she would have instinctively pulled away and the marks would be different. But after viewing Lou Smit's presentation, this is what he had to say. Reporter asked Tuttle about the possibility JonBenet was held still during the attack, pressed into the mattress. Reporter: Do you buy the theory? Does it hold water? ST:I don't know. It's bewildering to us as a company. We were approached by Lou Smit in the very beginning of the investigation. We provided a list of people who had the actual AIR TASER in Colorado. We've also provided them a lot of information... MISSING SECTION!!!!!!! R: ...distinctive marks that appear to be the same spread. I think you have an AIR TASER with you right now and there are in fact - - can you hold it up? - there are two electrodes in the end, right? ST: There are two electrodes right here what they are talking about is actually leaving marks here and they are about 3 1/2 cm apart and they're fairly similar in width if you were to measure those two. R: Now here's the big question - Can someone hold that to somebody without them flinching or moving back? ST: That's the crux of the bewilderment from our company's perspective. I'm going to go ahead and do this on my arm. I don't like doing this at all but R: I'm sure you don't ST: I want to try to hold it there as long as I can. Now this would be simulating anybody's reaction. (He grimaced and held the stun gun to his arm, he did NOT cry out or make any noise until he pulled the stun gun away.) UH! That is exceedingly painful to say the least, it's something instinctually I want to get away from R: OK, but you're a grown man, Let's take ourselves to the crime scene. This is a little girl who was asleep, she's 6 years old, what's to say a grown man can't hold her down and just simply hold that to her? ST: Well, that could be done, but what we're seeing is a mark that's not moving and as you saw my arm flailing about... even if someone is heavier,holding that down, that person is going to wake up immediately and instinctively want to get away from the pain. R: What about the the notion of incapacitating someone? Is this, obviously when you're being shocked there, you're out of it for that moment, but when you took it away, you were fine. Will it knock somebody out? ST: That is very, very crucial to the issue here, it will not knock someone out, it will not render them mute. They will kick and scream. I did my best to not scream into the microphone here because it was very uncomfortable. R: Once you took it away, though, you were fine? ST: ... once you stop it. And it's very loud when it's in the air. It does go much more silent as Lou Smit pointed out with the pillow. It does go more silent when you stick it in the skin. However, the minute that person breaks contact you do get that loud arcing sound. And again, it just simply would not cause incapacitation R: Mr. Tuttle, I can certainly understand why a company would not want their name or product associated with a crime in this case. Do you see any reasonable possibility that it COULD have been a TASER and that a child that young COULD have been incapacitated? ST: It could have been ours and I certainly, we want to work with the investigators, we have from the very beginning. Um, I don't know. It's bewildering to see if this was ours. The measurements are close. They're not exact, but I don't know. That's what's stupifying - is you've got two separate marks that are crystally clear, perfect, without any movement shown on the suspect's, oh, I'm sorry, on JonBenét. I just don't understand that, how that can be there. (Showing his arm) I don't have the marks here, they're all over the place. I'm not sure if you can see... from me moving, they've gone everywhere. Ah, R: Certainly not as deep as what we saw there. You mentioned... we're quickly running out of time... you mentioned that you provided list of those who had been sold. Is this something you have to register to buy? ST: Yes We do require as a company that if a person purchases an AIR TASER, we are going to know who that person is. They are registered in a data base and if it's used in the TASER mode, which would incapacitate somebody, it's going to emit little confetti tags that would match back to the owner. In this case the taser was not used so we don't have these confetti tags. But we do have serial numbers. If they find one, we could match that up to who it was sold to. R: Steven Tuttle, we do appreciate you spending the time with us today. ST: Thank you RE: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - Toth - 02-21-2017 I would agree that a stun gun, particularly an item not found in the house, is indicative of an intruder, who probably carried it to perfect an escape if his presence was detected and may have toyed with it for amusement later. If you check the various court records you will find that there are a great many lawsuits involving stun guns. They are supposedly tested on police volunteers but they are used on suspects that are not prepared, not healthy, on otheer drugs, etc. With so much litigation you will find that the company has a reputation amongst plaintiff's tort lawyers.  Knowing that reputation, I'm sure you will forgive me for not even reading about whatever the company executives said. I don't believe anyone who works for that company when they are under oath, I certainly don't believe in anything they say when they are not under oath. RE: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - jameson245 - 02-25-2017 In the end, the rep admitted it could have been their stun gun that caused those marks. I don't think anyone wants to be linked to this crime and that is the best we were going to get from the rep from Air Taser. It is Doberson's opinion in the end that carried the day for me. I will also say he educated me in sexual assault on children and showed me the book emergency room doctors use to compare hymen and vaginal details of all kinds of kids. And after that education I saw clearly there was NO evidence of prior assault RE: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - jameson245 - 03-13-2017 A note on the tests performed by Dr. Mike Doberson When the tests were done on the pigs, the pigs were first "put under' - just as if they were going in to surgery. These marks would show the color of injuries to living tissue. (The red color indicates the victim was alive when injured.) He then held the stun gun at different distances from the pig - - and he discharged the stun gun for varying lengths of time - one, two, three seconds. Later the pig was killed and the same tests done. Dr. Doberson said he would testify the marks came from a stun gun, most likely an Air Taser. RE: Lou Smit and the Stun Gun Theory - jameson245 - 04-02-2022 These two people conducted numerous tests on tazers in conjunction with the safe use by law enforcement. They are Gary Ordog and Eric Koskoze.